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KauaiOrca
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CLONE WATER Experiment Updates ...
#23916317 - 12/11/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Given that mushroom stems are generally fairly hollow, I had an idea in terms of cloning that would be an easy, one-step process. I would take a sterile syringe with about 2-3 ML's of water and then cut the mushroom near the base with a red hot knife, At the base, the stem is not hollow so through the solid, meaty bottom, the red hot needle goes up and into hollow part of the stem, always staying inside the stem ... I then inject the sterile water into the hollow stem, leaving the needle in there ... shake it a bit an then suck the water back into the needle, which never left the stem ... take the needle out, heat it quickly and then inject the water into a small jar of RGS.
I tried the poke the stem with the needle and try to get a piece of it technique that never worked for me, but am wondering if anyone's done this? Theoretically, it's sterile in the hollow part of the mushroom, right? I'd think the water injected would pick up enough cells to get a small jar of RGS going which could then be slurried for liquid innoculant. Could also, I guess do it to agar too. Any thoughts?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/22/17 08:43 AM)
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916321 - 12/11/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i guess you could do that but it seems like too much trouble. i have shaky hands. ill end up poking through the stem and sticking myself.
you can use any piece of the mushroom. its recommenced to use the inside of the stipe because you can get a cleaner piece of tissue.
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#23916371 - 12/11/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agar it. Or lc it like that tek says
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#23916376 - 12/11/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have pretty steady hands ... It's actually really easy if you pick a stout, straight mushroom. The reason I want to try this is I can just use the water I sucked back to inoculate a small jar of grass seed and should hopefully avoid any step of cleaning on agar, etc.
Anyway I'm trying, will report back results but was just curious if anyone else had tried this because hopefully, can get enough cells without even opening the mushroom up at all.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23916389 - 12/11/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Agar it. Or lc it like that tek says
How would it pick up any contams? The stem would never have even been exposed to open air. The bottom of the stem (meaty part) would be cut with a red hot blade ... If needle and water is sterile, there is no way for contams to get in unless the inside of the stem is contaminated which seems very unlikely, right?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916460 - 12/11/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You could skip the knife and just heat the needle red hot then poke it, let it cool, then squirt the water.....im going to try this sometime thanks for the idea lol
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
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In the end you are going to have a weak culture, that takes forever to recover, from a mature specimen, in a format not conducive to long term storage. Obvious contam vectors aside (how do you sterilize the outside of the fruit? Answer is you can't, best you can do is sanitize) this might seem appealing to someone with extremely limited experience but, it's going to lose its appeal when the results are in.
Also, what if the fruit isn't hollow?
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23916503 - 12/11/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The inside is not necessarily sterile..if you ever cloned an outdoor fruit you would know this
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23916505 - 12/11/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: In the end you are going to have a weak culture, that takes forever to recover, from a mature specimen, in a format not conducive to long term storage. Obvious contam vectors aside (how do you sterilize the outside of the fruit? Answer is you can't, best you can do is sanitize) this might seem appealing to someone with extremely limited experience but, it's going to lose its appeal when the results are in.
Also, what if the fruit isn't hollow?

... touche'
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23916561 - 12/11/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: In the end you are going to have a weak culture, that takes forever to recover, from a mature specimen, in a format not conducive to long term storage. Obvious contam vectors aside (how do you sterilize the outside of the fruit? Answer is you can't, best you can do is sanitize) this might seem appealing to someone with extremely limited experience but, it's going to lose its appeal when the results are in.
Also, what if the fruit isn't hollow?

All good points. I was thinking of using a fruit that's about half grown so its younger and it's easy to tell if it's hollow by just squeezing it a bit. You may be right on the weak culture aspect, though ... hadn't thought of that. I'll see how it compares to snagging pins from a cluster (how I do it now) and going to Agar. Main thought was I could possibly skip 2-3 agar transfers ... Go straight to RGS like Violet's method.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#23916566 - 12/11/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why try cut corners...we take from the base and the cap for good reason.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23916605 - 12/11/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Why try cut corners...we take from the base and the cap for good reason.
Wasn't really aware this is cutting corners. I generally use pins to start new cultures and have had good success with it ... Growing them really clean invitro saves steps too ... never really tried cloning a mature fruit as it seemed like a PITA ...
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916616 - 12/11/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im talking about the op's idea of squirting water into fruits
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916651 - 12/11/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: In the end you are going to have a weak culture, that takes forever to recover, from a mature specimen, in a format not conducive to long term storage. Obvious contam vectors aside (how do you sterilize the outside of the fruit? Answer is you can't, best you can do is sanitize) this might seem appealing to someone with extremely limited experience but, it's going to lose its appeal when the results are in.
Also, what if the fruit isn't hollow?

All good points. I was thinking of using a fruit that's about half grown so its younger and it's easy to tell if it's hollow by just squeezing it a bit. You may be right on the weak culture aspect, though ... hadn't thought of that. I'll see how it compares to snagging pins from a cluster (how I do it now) and going to Agar. Main thought was I could possibly skip 2-3 agar transfers ... Go straight to RGS like Violet's method.
You will see your success rate drop and clean a lot of mold.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23916733 - 12/11/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: In the end you are going to have a weak culture, that takes forever to recover, from a mature specimen, in a format not conducive to long term storage. Obvious contam vectors aside (how do you sterilize the outside of the fruit? Answer is you can't, best you can do is sanitize) this might seem appealing to someone with extremely limited experience but, it's going to lose its appeal when the results are in.
Also, what if the fruit isn't hollow?

All good points. I was thinking of using a fruit that's about half grown so its younger and it's easy to tell if it's hollow by just squeezing it a bit. You may be right on the weak culture aspect, though ... hadn't thought of that. I'll see how it compares to snagging pins from a cluster (how I do it now) and going to Agar. Main thought was I could possibly skip 2-3 agar transfers ... Go straight to RGS like Violet's method.
You will see your success rate drop and clean a lot of mold.
How does mold enter the equation? Is there mold inside a half grown fruit? If I cut the stem with a red hot knife and use a red hot needle to enter into the stem, where does mold get a foothold? Not trying to be difficult, I just honestly can't see how mold would get inside the needle. I also live in the high desert where mold levels, I think are a lot lower.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916757 - 12/11/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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For starters it wouldn't grow very fast if you went directly to rgs. You can get a enough myc on agar in a few days to accelerate your spawn by at least a week. Plus pretty much guarantee it's clean.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23916769 - 12/11/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: For starters it wouldn't grow very fast if you went directly to rgs. You can get a enough myc on agar in a few days to accelerate your spawn by at least a week. Plus pretty much guarantee it's clean.
It would grow faster than spores, wouldn't you think? Maybe I'm wrong here.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Peteyboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23916771 - 12/11/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Random cloning question but relevant to OPS post..is it a bad idea to clone a mature specimen just beginning to tear it's veil on the first flush or should only pins be used for cloning?
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916774 - 12/11/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It would be faster to clone properly on agar..pins are great to clone but a more mature fruit will work fine as well
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Peteyboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23916788 - 12/11/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awesome thanks Cron...You da man!
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Peteyboy] 2
#23916803 - 12/11/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pins are great because they are aggressive n u can just drop them on a plate
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Peteyboy] 1
#23916813 - 12/11/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
How does mold enter the equation?
Bacteria is a vector for mold.
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23916837 - 12/11/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
How does mold enter the equation?
Bacteria is a vector for mold.
OK, so let's say I cut the stem at the base with at least an inch or so solid stem at the bottom. Then I dip the bottom of the stem in alcohol. Then I wipe it with a lysol or chlorox wipe. Then I take a red hot knife and cut a 1/4-1/2 slice off the end and then I poke the red hot needle through the bottom of the stem (been dipped i alcohol, wiped with chlorox and cut with a red hot knife) Do you still think bacteria and mold are likely to play a role here?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23916855 - 12/11/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
How does mold enter the equation?
Bacteria is a vector for mold.
OK, so let's say I cut the stem at the base with at least an inch or so solid stem at the bottom. Then I dip the bottom of the stem in alcohol. Then I wipe it with a lysol or chlorox wipe. Then I take a red hot knife and cut a 1/4-1/2 slice off the end and then I poke the red hot needle through the bottom of the stem (been dipped i alcohol, wiped with chlorox and cut with a red hot knife) Do you still think bacteria and mold are likely to play a role here?
I think you just chemically fucked up your sample.
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 3
#23916861 - 12/11/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dude you are missing the piunt so badly here...it is simply not a good plan and on many levels. Would be faster to clone it properly then to trie cut corners so you can jump to rye in a haste...this hobby is one you don't rush.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23916884 - 12/11/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Dude you are missing the piunt so badly here...it is simply not a good plan and on many levels. Would be faster to clone it properly then to trie cut corners so you can jump to rye in a haste...this hobby is one you don't rush.
Actually, I'm in no rush at all. Have several really good LC's that work perfectly with my system, so it's not about rushing ... And it's not about cutting corners either.
I've had just as good of results starting spores on a small jar (pastyplate size) of RGS as on Agar ... Have also pulled invitro pins and put them on RGS too and worked fine ... I've just never tried cloning a mature or grown past a pin sized fruit and was thinking about it that's all.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 2
#23916906 - 12/11/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The two spots to clone from are the base and the cap where the myc is rapidly expanding from...the middle is mostly cell enlargement
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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tump
ban the undead



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23916934 - 12/11/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea you can't clean it with the needle method. Only did it five or six times with a lc of trich half the time. Have fun but if you have clean lcs just spent the time on agar with that fruit. Also spores to grain can be just as fast or much slower. I've done jars 100% form spores in 14 days. Or no growth ever.
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump] 1
#23917392 - 12/11/16 06:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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My man....you got two of the best guys in the business here giving you advice...TAKE IT, you should feel privileged they are taking the time to help you...
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23917583 - 12/11/16 07:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Given that mushroom stems are generally fairly hollow, I had an idea in terms of cloning that would be an easy, one-step process. I would take a sterile syringe with about 3-4 ML's of water and then but the mushroom near the base with a red hot knife, At the base, the stem is not hollow so through the solid, meaty bottom, the needle goes up and into hollow part of the stem, always staying inside the stem ... I then inject the sterile water into the hollow stem, leaving the needle in there ... shake it a bit an then suck the water back into the needle, which never left the stem ... take the needle out, heat it quickly and then inject the water into a small jar of RGS.
I tried the poke the stem with the needle and try to get a piece of it technique that never worked for me, but am wondering if anyone's done this? Theoretically, it's sterile in the hollow part of the mushroom, right? I'd think the water injected would pick up enough cells to get a small jar of RGS going which could then be slurried for liquid innoculant. Could also, I guess do it to agar too.
Any thoughts?
sounds like the idea someone who is trying to avoid doing things the right way comes up with. eats might like this method
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: bodhisatta]
#23917690 - 12/11/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Given that mushroom stems are generally fairly hollow, I had an idea in terms of cloning that would be an easy, one-step process. I would take a sterile syringe with about 3-4 ML's of water and then but the mushroom near the base with a red hot knife, At the base, the stem is not hollow so through the solid, meaty bottom, the needle goes up and into hollow part of the stem, always staying inside the stem ... I then inject the sterile water into the hollow stem, leaving the needle in there ... shake it a bit an then suck the water back into the needle, which never left the stem ... take the needle out, heat it quickly and then inject the water into a small jar of RGS.
I tried the poke the stem with the needle and try to get a piece of it technique that never worked for me, but am wondering if anyone's done this? Theoretically, it's sterile in the hollow part of the mushroom, right? I'd think the water injected would pick up enough cells to get a small jar of RGS going which could then be slurried for liquid innoculant. Could also, I guess do it to agar too.
Any thoughts?
sounds like the idea someone who is trying to avoid doing things the right way comes up with. eats might like this method
Appreciate all the responses and suggestions! i have no problem at all doing the pins to agar process and currently have 3 of them in process ... Am not trying to cut time off or anything like that. Was simply curious if anyone had tried this idea, that's all.
What I think I'll do is try it both onto RGS and Agar and see what happens. Total cost of RGS for the experiment is less than 2 cents. Who knows, maybe it will work. I like trying new things.
Thanks again.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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tump
ban the undead



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23918312 - 12/12/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pictures either way
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KauaiOrca
Waterman


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23924967 - 12/14/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Pictures either way
First attempt update: I did this technique and squirted 3ml of sterile water into a medium sized fruit through the meaty bottom into the hollow stem, left the needle in... kinda squeezed massaged the meaty bottom hopefully dislodging some of those cells into the mix and then sucked back 1.5ml ... flamed the needle again and quickly squirted that water into a zip loc pint jar with about a half inch of RGS in it. 5 days later a nice half dollar sized clump of "clean looking" growth that I just shook up. Will update when jar fully colonizes ... intend to do a G2G transfer into 3 quart sized zip locs of RGS and see what happens. If it grows out, it's an agar-less way to clone direct to grain. We'll see... so far, no visible contams but too early to tell.
Clone Water Test #1 - Medium sized, tallish fruit 2-3 days from full sized Day 1: Extracted 1.5ml clone water from inside fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS Day 5: Quarter sized clean looking growth on small amount of RGS Day 5: Shook the jar to accelerate colonization Day 6: After shake, colonizing quickly ... no signs of contamination
Clone Water Test #2 - Early Stage - Stubby Fat Fruit Day 1: Extracted <1ml clone water from inside fat, stubby fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS Day 3: First signs of white specks appearing on RGS
Next Step: If no visible contamination - G2G 3 quart zip loc jars (RGS) and try to fruit it.
Are there other direct clone to grain (no agar step) methods that have ever worked?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/15/16 06:51 AM)
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928111 - 12/15/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good point. Ill try this sometime with injecting to some plates and lc jars made pasty style.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23928630 - 12/15/16 08:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Good point. Ill try this sometime with injecting to some plates and lc jars made pasty style.
First two attempts are growing nicely, certainly much faster than spores and appear to be contam free although still too early to tell. If this works, what an easy way to clone different fruits with very low risk of contamination. And can go straight to a growing medium too to test if the clone produces! If this works, my need for agar will go down dramatically. Hardly even need an SAB to do this.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928661 - 12/15/16 09:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I might suggest testing on agar. Bacteria can be hard to spot in grains sometimes.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23928681 - 12/15/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I might suggest testing on agar. Bacteria can be hard to spot in grains sometimes.
That's probably a good thing to do simultaneously. If 3-4 in a row come out contam free, it's probably an indication that the method is reliable.
Out of curiosity, wouldn't bacteria show up in the small RGS jars I'm doing? I mean if those jars produce pins and there's no VISIBLE sign of bacteria, are my chances pretty high that bacteria is not there? Keep in mind, I have no desire at all to spawn to bulk and/or create dozens and dozens of jars from one small sample. If anything, I might create an LC from it and those are pretty easy to see if they're thriving/healthy or not.
I'm more thinking for a small contained system ...
Spores to RGS > clone water the good fruits > clone water to small RGS jar invitro > if small RGS jar is clean, G2G to 3-4 muda style jars... and wait for the good fruits ... then rinse and repeat clone water step with the best fruits pretty much indefinitely.
The thing is it's so easy to just pick a nice fruit, flame knife and cut near the bottom, flame a needle and poke up through the bottom and up into the stem, draw out some clone water and inject it into a small jar of RGS ... About 30 seconds and I've got a clone growing on RGS that will tell me if it pins fast.
Appreciate your advice here.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/15/16 09:22 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928718 - 12/15/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bacteria is easier to see on agar than in grain due to agar being a 2D media. I have found through many tests for instance that grain that looks 100% clean often shows bacteria when tested. Put GLC to agar and many times it shows lots of bacteria. However many times that same GLC can colonize grain and even be spawned.
You may be thinking "why worry about the bacteria then if you can still spawn it?" The answer of course is that in low populations bacteria isn't much issue for mycelium. However a small amount of bacteria can cause problems if conditions become more favorable for it. So while 9 times out 10 you might get away with a bit of bacteria in the inoculate, on the 10th go you experience a temp spike for a day, or the moisture content is off just a bit, or you have just a little more spilled starch. Now the bacteria is thriving and while you still might not see or smell it, it's there driving down yield and being a mold vector during spawn runs.
Of course loads of people feel that those are acceptible risks to take. But all it takes is one big expansion and massive project fail to really put someone off the game. Start with guaranteed clean inoculate and your success gets up to 99% and your yields rise. Use dubious inoculate and suddenly your success drops, yields drop, and troubleshooting vectors becomes harder.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23928733 - 12/15/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Bacteria is easier to see on agar than in grain due to agar being a 2D media. I have found through many tests for instance that grain that looks 100% clean often shows bacteria when tested. Put GLC to agar and many times it shows lots of bacteria. However many times that same GLC can colonize grain and even be spawned.
You may be thinking "why worry about the bacteria then if you can still spawn it?" The answer of course is that in low populations bacteria isn't much issue for mycelium. However a small amount of bacteria can cause problems if conditions become more favorable for it. So while 9 times out 10 you might get away with a bit of bacteria in the inoculate, on the 10th go you experience a temp spike for a day, or the moisture content is off just a bit, or you have just a little more spilled starch. Now the bacteria is thriving and while you still might not see or smell it, it's there driving down yield and being a mold vector during spawn runs.
Of course loads of people feel that those are acceptible risks to take. But all it takes is one big expansion and massive project fail to really put someone off the game. Start with guaranteed clean inoculate and your success gets up to 99% and your yields rise. Use dubious inoculate and suddenly your success drops, yields drop, and troubleshooting vectors becomes harder.
P - theoretically, let's say I do a multispore grow, pick a killer fruit, do the clone water tek and it grows some nice fruits ... if it do clone water with those fruits (Gen 2) am I still working with the same genetics even though the clone water came from a different fruit? Would this hold true on Gen 3, 4, 5, etc? Will all the fruits from that first clone water starter produce the same cloning results? And for how many generations do you think before dropoff is likely?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928749 - 12/15/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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There will probably be a degree of genetic shift, impossible to say how much. I wouldn't try t push expansion like that more than 5 times as you are really burning up p values that way. Highly inefficient.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23928876 - 12/15/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: There will probably be a degree of genetic shift, impossible to say how much. I wouldn't try t push expansion like that more than 5 times as you are really burning up p values that way. Highly inefficient.
Got it .... Doubt I'd ever need to go more than 3 gen's anyway. At some point you find a great culture then just LC it. I kinda like the crapshoot of multi spore grows every once in awhile anyway. Also, seems like they get more and more tuned to the system you're growing in .... the spores themselves adapt and seem to tune to the growing style.
Interesting facet of this is if a fruit grows out of a jar that has mild bacterial infection, the clone water is most likely going to be free of it ....
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23928914 - 12/15/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Never underestimate the ability of contams to ride along. They might stay latent for a long time. That's why people stress agar over these seemingly easier methods of expansion. At least with a slanted master as backup, I can go back to clean and young culture if my working culture degrades or contams.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23929169 - 12/15/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Never underestimate the ability of contams to ride along. They might stay latent for a long time. That's why people stress agar over these seemingly easier methods of expansion. At least with a slanted master as backup, I can go back to clean and young culture if my working culture degrades or contams.
No doubt ... especially if you're an industrial level grower taking one jar of spawn to multiple bulk grows ... A lot of us don't need or even want that kind of grow operation. 5-10 jars at different stages keeps me happy.
Agar is an incredible commitment when you're testing out a few different isolates at a time ... Can easily get dozens of plates going. I think what I'm going to do is use this process to identify the really aggressive pinners then use agar as the final step if I want to really clean it and save it. In some ways, it's more interesting for me to just keep farming it with MS + Clone water
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23929187 - 12/15/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I must be clear, my advice is usually generalized to accommodate most size of grows. Fact is that while a simple hobbiest with a tiny grow might not care if they lose a project, my advice to them will always take the route that is most likely to produce a safe outcome, regardless of size or distance expanded.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23929223 - 12/15/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I must be clear, my advice is usually generalized to accommodate most size of grows. Fact is that while a simple hobbiest with a tiny grow might not care if they lose a project, my advice to them will always take the route that is most likely to produce a safe outcome, regardless of size or distance expanded.
Your advice is consistently solid, easy to follow and backed up with unimpeachable experience. You've forgotten far more than I know. To me, there's something really cool about the sheer unpredictability of just farming it ... MS, clones and see WTF happens. It takes absolutely no effort at all to produce plenty of fruits for me and friends. Hell I could do that just with MS and 3-4 jars. What I really like about this clone water thing is the speed I anticipate from clone water to pins.... I've got a theory that could be totally complete bullshit but that the more generations you multispore from the exact same system, the better the results get because the fruits "learn" and adapt to the conditions and produce spores that can thrive in the repeating environment. After having cycled maybe 10 generations now of the invitro jars, (cross between v-tek and Muda's bottles) even my MS grows are very acceptable. Whereas other MS strains I tried are pitiful in this system at best. Probably why invitro is hard for many ... you really gotta find the right strain/isolate ... without that, I think there's just not enough FAE for a lot of strains that thrive with regular fruiting chambers.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/15/16 12:34 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23929234 - 12/15/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never got the need for maximum speed. Most of the time I end up expanding more than I can use, masters sit forgotten and the fridge is full of plates that dry out before I get to them. If you start rolling with agar and do 3 - 4 p values of grain expansion you soon start trying to slow it all down.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23929256 - 12/15/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I never got the need for maximum speed. Most of the time I end up expanding more than I can use, masters sit forgotten and the fridge is full of plates that dry out before I get to them. If you start rolling with agar and do 3 - 4 p values of grain expansion you soon start trying to slow it all down.
So, P, when you get a bunch of isolates on Agar going, you still have to grow each one of them out to see if they're going to produce, right? I've found, at least 75% of the time, a pin from a nice juicy cluster produces good ... maybe not optimal from an industrial production "every ounce counts" perspective, but from a "this jar is bursting with fruits" perspective, it's a pretty high odds bet. I'm guessing it will be the same with clone water if it comes from the same fruit that was the cluster pin, but just a few days later. Pins are always going to have some contamination on em, no way around that. But clone water has the potential to be very clean especially if the fruits came from a very clean invitro situation. There's just not a lot of mold or bacteria in those jars because they're not exposed to much open air the way bulk grows are.
BTW, appreciate the conversation ...
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23929519 - 12/15/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't isolate much, more of a clone guy myself. But when I find a clone that puts out 175-200% BE first flush on bulk at a 1:2 spawn ratio, with good potency, I want to keep it around.
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Peteyboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23929537 - 12/15/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mateja



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#23929794 - 12/15/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey man! Did you change your profile pic? Did you have a pic with some animal in a mink fur or something? Man i loved that picture, somehow it reminded me of Jennifer Lopez i have no idea why.. Please put it back one day! (:
-------------------- Cakes inside Water Tub
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Mateja]
#23959363 - 12/26/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any updates
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23959637 - 12/27/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Any updates
Agreed updates about to try this to agar later today
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23962552 - 12/28/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Screw it this made me just waste 5 fruit snd 5 clean syringes. The sub around it and fruit form the cluster turned into white trich today. Thats ten plates wasted too
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23963326 - 12/28/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Any updates
Yes, here it is...
Clone Water Test #1 - Medium sized, tallish fruit 2-3 days from full sized Day 1: Extracted 1.5ml clone water from inside fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS Day 5: Quarter sized clean looking growth on small amount of RGS Day 5: Shook the jar to accelerate colonization Day 6: After shake, colonizing quickly ... no signs of contamination Day 8: Fully Colonized, no contamination, did G2G transfer to 2 quart jars Day 14: 2 Quart Jars fully colonized, no visible contamination ... Both jars ready for casing Day 18: Cased Jars (Verm) looking ready to pin soon
Also, on day 10 when I opened the jars, I put a pinch of mycelium on Agar and it has grown out clean ... made some LI from it.
Clone Water Test #2 - Early Stage - Stubby Fat Fruit Day 1: Extracted <1ml clone water from inside fat, stubby fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS Day 3: First signs of white specks appearing on RGS Day 8: Fully Colonized ... Looking Good ... No visible contamination Day 9: Transferred G2G to two jars
So far, with both clone water experiments, no contamination both are growing in clean.
4 Days ago, did another clone water spritz onto small grain jar and a good speck of white is developing. Seems very easy to get clean clone water this way
Keys are to pick a fruit with a stubby, meaty base that's about half grown ... don't squirt more than 2-3ml's into the base... carefully suck the water back in to the syringe, take your time ... then quickly squirt clone water onto sterilized grain. 15 second procedure to get a cloned jar working ... no agar needed. Looks like it's 3 for 3 in terms of no contams... still waiting to see how it fruits out, though.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/28/16 07:28 PM)
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van hatton
Still a noob



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23963380 - 12/28/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: van hatton]
#23963392 - 12/28/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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pics, proof, whatever.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23963503 - 12/28/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: pics, proof, whatever.
I'll post pics after it pins. What good are pics of colonized jars? What does that prove?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23963509 - 12/28/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You posted an update for every day, how hard is it to snap a pic once a day? Not being a dick just being realistic. Too many people offer these "groundbreaking teks" but never offer any proof or documentation of the process. Just sayin.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23963611 - 12/28/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: You posted an update for every day, how hard is it to snap a pic once a day? Not being a dick just being realistic. Too many people offer these "groundbreaking teks" but never offer any proof or documentation of the process. Just sayin.
It didn't really occur to me that colonizing grain was all that interesting... Or proves anything, to be honest. When it fruits, that's another story.
Not sure I'm presenting a "ground breaking tek," just doing an experiment that allows me to go directly to grain with cloning tissue with a low risk of contamination for small grows. My theory is I can go from a mid-sized fruit > clone water to grain > colonized grain jar > Fruiting in about 3 weeks. That's what I'm testing out. We'll see.
This isn't an experiment to generate pounds and pounds of spawn for a bulk grow or anything like that. It's just to see if you can, while harvesting some nice fruits, quickly start some new jars with a 15 second procedure that doesn't even require an SAB setup. No LC needed ... no agar needed ... no slurry ... just a grain jar, a syringe and a nice meaty fruit ... self perpetuating system. More importantly, I can quickly test out a lot of clones without any of the time consuming cleaning pins on agar step. I could have 10 different clone jars near fruiting by the time I've gotten one dirty pin cleaned up and ready to inoculate a jar.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (12/28/16 07:31 PM)
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23963687 - 12/28/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool deal, and good luck!
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23963703 - 12/28/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well we are still interested, pics are always nice. But you are right, this isn't about a massive or even medium sized expansion. It's a quick kick to achieve a quick clone for a one off grow. Which has its place, certainly as far as cloning methods go this is a lot safer than biopsy to LC. There is some risk that might not show as vectors until a few cracks at it. But in the short run it seems to have merits.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23964654 - 12/29/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Well we are still interested, pics are always nice. But you are right, this isn't about a massive or even medium sized expansion. It's a quick kick to achieve a quick clone for a one off grow. Which has its place, certainly as far as cloning methods go this is a lot safer than biopsy to LC. There is some risk that might not show as vectors until a few cracks at it. But in the short run it seems to have merits.
What I'm thinking is this is a great way to very quickly grow out 5-10 different clones without having to do 2-3 transfers of pins/agar for each one. I'm only cloning ideal fruits. Essentially from clone water extraction to harvested jar in 20-30 days. So if I find a clone that is a super producer, then I'll take clone water from one of those and go the agar route if I want to save that culture. Truth is, for my needs, the results I get just from MS with the strain I'm using is definitely acceptable, this is just a fun way to always have a few bottles growing with essentially seven elements:
1. RGS 2. Ziploc twist n loc jars 3. 10ml syringes 4. Vermiculite for casing 5. Pressure cooker 6. Foil 7. Water
And that's it ... And very low fuss, low contamination risk and everything fits on a bookshelf that's 12" x 24" ... no fruiting chamber ... no humidity issues ... no agar ... no jars in the fridge.. and those jars are super easy to harvest, clean and they're PERFECT for taking ultra clean spore prints too.
The hardest part is finding a strain that likes those growing conditions. Thankfully I've got one that just seems to get better and better with every generation as if it's tuning/adapting itself to growing on RGS pretty much invitro.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23978484 - 01/03/17 11:05 AM (7 years, 27 days ago) |
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Some Clone Water Experiment Pictures
Here are some pictures from a clone water jar I started about a week before the one I'm logging ... I didn't keep dates, but think from clone water extraction to harvest was 28 days give or take a few. I was traveling a lot and forget exactly. I was so sloppy with this one (dropped the needle, had a hard time getting any water out, etc.) that I was certain it would contaminate, but it didn't.
Here is the first clone water harvest ... clone water > small PP5 > G2G to jar > verm case ... All of them were straight RGS ... nothing else, just cased with plain vermiculite and bottom watered when they started growing.
Under the dome ...

Stretching out without the dome ...

7 day old clone water in small RGS filled PP5 from another clone water extraction (2-3 more days and the RGS puck becomes G2G)

2 days after casing with verm

Thus far, I've got 6 clone water experiments going and 5 appear contam free and one isn't growing at all. No contamination visible on any of them and 5 different clones being tested with good shot of clone extraction to fruit in less than a month with no agar step at all.
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/03/17 01:21 PM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981422 - 01/04/17 01:10 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Clone water LC ... Clone water direct to honey LC ... turned out clean

Clone Water LI ... Clone water > agar > LI
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Tiamo
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981451 - 01/04/17 01:24 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Looks good, but I don't know why you inject the water inside of the mushroom and then take that water? I've seen people just take a bit of tissue from inside the stem and use that directly to inoculate jars or LC. It seems to me the injecting bit is just another step that doesn't really add anything. Maybe it's faster, but I'm not sure.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Tiamo]
#23981525 - 01/04/17 01:54 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: Looks good, but I don't know why you inject the water inside of the mushroom and then take that water? I've seen people just take a bit of tissue from inside the stem and use that directly to inoculate jars or LC. It seems to me the injecting bit is just another step that doesn't really add anything. Maybe it's faster, but I'm not sure.
I do it this way because it's super fast and easy and unlikely to contaminate. Entire procedure is about 10 seconds ... no SAB even needed. When you take a tissue biopsy, you gotta get out the SAB, clean everything up ... open up the fruit ... tweezer out some hopefully clean tissue and then either put it on Agar (figure two transfers = 2 weeks) or make some kind of clone blended inoculant.
What I do is have my syringes ready... sterile with 2ml's of water ... needle ready to go ... there's a good fruit ... stick the needle into the sterile hollow center of the fruit ... push water in, suck it out... never tear it up and expose the inside to open air ... and quickly shoot it into a small grain jar. Done. Starts growing on grain immediately... G2G in a 6-10 days. On a harvest day, if I've got 5 syringes ready, can have 5 clones growing on grain literally with about 3 minutes of effort and I'm testing 5 different clones ... can get to fruiting in about a month.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 02:04 PM)
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Tiamo
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981563 - 01/04/17 02:12 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Do you use a SHIP for your jars? That would explain it. I would have to get the old SAB out if I wanted to inoculate some jars with a needle.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Tiamo]
#23981587 - 01/04/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: Do you use a SHIP for your jars? That would explain it. I would have to get the old SAB out if I wanted to inoculate some jars with a needle.
I don't use a SHP or even normal jars. I prepare about a dozen of the small PP5 jars (pastyplate size) with about half full of grain and don't use the covers. Instead, use two layers of foil. and just close them up with the foil. Then, when I have the syringe ready, just wipe the top with a clorox wipe, quickly stick the needle through the foil, shoot it on the grain, pull it out and put a piece of scotch tape on to cover the hole. I'm sure I'm violating every possible sterile rule but I rarely, if ever get contamination this way. I do it the same for LI or LC. Then, when that small amount of grain turns into a colonized white inoculation puck, I can just go G2G or go grain water ... I only use the pucks that show fast vigorous growth and just toss the others.
I think, because I live in a very dry area and have a really clean house, I just don't have the same amount of contaminants in the air some people have. When I lived in Hawaii, I had to be a lot more careful.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981600 - 01/04/17 02:29 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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when you stick the needle into the outside of the mushroom you are pushing the tissue into the needle itself. so when you 'inject' into the center that piece of tissue gets shot back into the center with the water and it gets sucked up.
you can accomplish the same thing without the water. try it. ive done it. maybe the water distributes the tissue better but 
and your inoc tek sounds dirty af.
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#23981617 - 01/04/17 02:34 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: when you stick the needle into the outside of the mushroom you are pushing the tissue into the needle itself. so when you 'inject' into the center that piece of tissue gets shot back into the center with the water and it gets sucked up.
you can accomplish the same thing without the water. try it. ive done it. maybe the water distributes the tissue better but 
and your inoc tek sounds dirty af.
All possible. I tried it without water and didn't get the same results. If I do it right, I suck back about 1 ml of water that I then shoot into a small grain PP5. Also, I heat the tip of the needle before putting it into the mushroom ... through the meaty bottom ... I think that might help with contamination, I don't know. All I know is that 5 of the 6 clone water attempts I've made have worked with, thus far, no contamination.
Also, keep in mind, I don't do bulk grows so don't ever spawn to bulk and have big expansion of spawn so my grain doesn't have to be squeaky clean. For the small grows I do, whatever level of contamination I get, if any, isn't having any real impact.
Its really just harvest > 4-5 clone "pucks" > G2G the 2 fastest best and toss the others, then next batch ... low fuss level. Just have to PC a batch of needles and small grain jars for each harvest.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 02:56 PM)
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981632 - 01/04/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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i get the point of your idea and i like it because it suits your needs since you dont do big bulk grows and its nice to do something without agar because agar scares people off(i was one until i took the leap)
i was just pointing out that you can do the same thing by just pushing a needle into the mush...and pull it out. 9/10 you will see a piece of tissue inside the syringe which can then be injected onto whatever. but neither is a 'clean' approach because that tissue inside the needle is not 100% clean the way you can clean the culture up on agar so even though it hasnt contam'd (yet) it could... which is why you go agar.. just my 2cents...and rantings. sorry
i still dig it!
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#23981657 - 01/04/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: i get the point of your idea and i like it because it suits your needs since you dont do big bulk grows and its nice to do something without agar because agar scares people off(i was one until i took the leap)
i was just pointing out that you can do the same thing by just pushing a needle into the mush...and pull it out. 9/10 you will see a piece of tissue inside the syringe which can then be injected onto whatever. but neither is a 'clean' approach because that tissue inside the needle is not 100% clean the way you can clean the culture up on agar so even though it hasnt contam'd (yet) it could... which is why you go agar.. just my 2cents...and rantings. sorry
i still dig it!
Thanks for your thoughts. I've done a lot of agar and still use it sometimes, if I've got a culture I really like ... I was just looking for a way to cut down on steps and try to get to a system where I don't store anything anymore in the fridge or make LC's or any of that. It's just harvest > clone water 4-5 pucks > next ... I take spore prints in a way where they're super clean (from invitro grows) and start those too on the small grain pucks ... no SAB or agar and 9 out of 10 times they grow fine then start new clone water jars. Kind of a simple, low fuss system where I rarely even pull out the SAB anymore. Clean syringes, RGS, verm and PP5 jars with foil is it. I really started this to see how fast I could go from clone to pins.
I just kinda like having a few jars growing at all times at different stages so somethings nearly always pinning and if one goes bad, no big deal because it's not a big tub. just keep it all on a small bookshelf and get close to an ounce per jar.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981661 - 01/04/17 02:54 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#23981741 - 01/04/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Nice! your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....
No offence but not a fan. Like I said, no offence.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23981762 - 01/04/17 03:47 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Nice! your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....
No offence but not a fan. Like I said, no offence.
Bacterial? Keep in mind that's a plastic PP5 and not glass. Definitely did not smell bacterial at all, but you may be right, I don't know. To me, it looks like a clean jar but I don't expand spawn to bulk so your standard for "clean" or "bacterial" may be a lot higher and more finely tuned.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23981794 - 01/04/17 04:01 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow. I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.
For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement. You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five. This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow.
cool
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23981818 - 01/04/17 04:11 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow. I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.
For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement. You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five. This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow.
cool
Quote:
kenetic said: For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow. I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.
For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement. You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five. This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow.
cool
Thanks. Yeah, I agree that this might be a pretty easy route for a new grower just trying to get a clone going quickly. There definitely is some technique involved in the clone water extraction with the syringe, but there's a lot technique and process steps with agar in a SAB too.
The main goal I had was to see how quickly I could go from a harvested clone fruit to the next harvest and to see if it could be done in <30-days total bypassing the agar cleanup step which is, with 2-3 transfers at least a 2 week process. I think it is possible for sure. But what I found is it's a way to just keep a grow going and going without LC or LI ... as long as I take a print every once in awhile and start that one. Even if the sub is somewhat contaminated, the inside of the fruit I get the clone water from is most likely clean ... so as long as the sub in the bottle is good enough to give one good yield, all is good and the cycle just keeps going.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 04:12 PM)
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23982298 - 01/04/17 07:13 PM (7 years, 26 days ago) |
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If you get into this hobby deep enough you'll have plenty of cultures to keep you busy. I have a few (dozen) plates going at a time and making a clone takes less than one minute to transfer safely to a dish. I am constantly germinating spores or transferring or cloning and I don't even give time a second thought. I don't wait for shit. I am pretty busy perfecting my contributions to this hobby due to my wide interest and progressiveness.
It's pretty simple. If you finish with one project, start another. You can always sacrifice a couple happy hours for a much greater future gain. Soon you won't ever feel anxious about when your spores are gonna germinate or if your clone to grain will contaminate. You'll have a bunch of baskets with a bunch of eggs.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23983718 - 01/05/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: If you get into this hobby deep enough you'll have plenty of cultures to keep you busy. I have a few (dozen) plates going at a time and making a clone takes less than one minute to transfer safely to a dish. I am constantly germinating spores or transferring or cloning and I don't even give time a second thought. I don't wait for shit. I am pretty busy perfecting my contributions to this hobby due to my wide interest and progressiveness.
It's pretty simple. If you finish with one project, start another. You can always sacrifice a couple happy hours for a much greater future gain. Soon you won't ever feel anxious about when your spores are gonna germinate or if your clone to grain will contaminate. You'll have a bunch of baskets with a bunch of eggs.
Good points. I like having a few jars going at all times at different stages. A MS grow and 3-4 clones. From the last MS grow, I did the clone water on 7-8 different fruits and it looks like 5 of them are going to grow out fine ... all in about 30 days from harvest to harvest. I love the idea of using each harvest to start one new MS and 3-4 clone grows and just keep em small and the mystery of a new clone and MS grow each time and what will happen in more interesting to me now than having a killer LC culture that just keeps pumping out totally predictable results. I've got nothing against Agar and use it sometimes in certain situations, but I really like the idea of going from grow to grow without it and without any LC or LI. Just spore prints and clone water and the next grow is off and running. I've got a killer way of taking prints now that has been contam free for over a year.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/05/17 11:56 AM)
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23984731 - 01/05/17 06:07 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: I've got a killer way of taking prints now that has been contam free for over a year.
Beam me up scotty, I'm down for new methods for taking prints. I've tried a few different methods and I'm still not sure which one I like the best....
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23984795 - 01/05/17 06:32 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: I've got a killer way of taking prints now that has been contam free for over a year.
Beam me up scotty, I'm down for new methods for taking prints. I've tried a few different methods and I'm still not sure which one I like the best....
What I do is I make a foil inner liner for a PP5 Pint jar and then cut out a circle smaller than a mushroom cap ... It looks like this ...
From the top...

from the side...

Then I wrap the top in foil and put a kind of foil tent over the whole thing and then PC it for 10 minutes.
Then, I just take a nice cap, cut it with a red hot knife, place it in the foil liner over the round hole and give it a day. Then remove the foil liner and all and put the top that was wrapped in foil back on the PP5 Jar. The cap never physically touched any part of the jar and the jar was sterile. So the only thing on the bottom of the jar are the spores that were shot out. I then shoot 10ml sterile water into the jar, swirl it for a few minutes to mix in all the spores and then suck them back up into the syringe ... last two steps in a SAB of course.
Those syringes have been ultra clean Have put 3 of them on Agar and not even a hint of contam. Now I skip the agar and just put them on a pint of RGS, do a small grow and that's where I get the mushrooms for the clone water technique. That way, all the clone water mushrooms are Gen 1 ... and there's no need to ever clean spores on Agar anymore. I used to get pins from that and put the on Agar, now I just skip that and go clone water to small grain jar.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/05/17 06:40 PM)
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23984811 - 01/05/17 06:41 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Wow man, that's an awesome way to get a clean syringe! If I wanted to make a print instead I imagine I could put a small square of foil at the bottom of the container and then sterilize it. Put it in my sab afterward. Later I could just remove the printed foil from the dish and fold it up. I'm not a big fan of syringes but I can easily adapt this method for my use lol.
Awesome!
Edit: can you think of a way to apply this to a bulk print scenario?
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23984821 - 01/05/17 06:44 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Wow man, that's an awesome way to get a clean syringe! If I wanted to make a print instead I imagine I could put a small square of foil at the bottom of the container and then sterilize it. Put it in my sab afterward. Later I could just remove the printed foil from the dish and fold it up. I'm not a big fan of syringes but I can easily adapt this method for my use lol.
Awesome!
You can definitely put foil in the bottom ... I've done that too ... When I do that, I just put the unfoil'd top back on, then leave it cracked just a bit and put it in a warm dry place for the inside of it to really dry out ... I use my dehydrator for this ... and then when you open to get the foil it's ultra dry and bacteria free. I'm telling you, the prints are pristine clean.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23984830 - 01/05/17 06:47 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said:
Edit: can you think of a way to apply this to a bulk print scenario?
Bulk print meaning a bunch of prints at once? I've never had a need to take more than two at a time ... I can use one of those syringes, because they're so strong, for a lot of jars but what I usually do is just shoot like 3-4 ML's in a grain jar and it colonizes 2-3 times faster ... then I get the mushrooms for clone watering in about a month total or I just use the colonized grain to do a grain water slurry for a new batch of jars. I've never had contam problems but then again, I don't ever spawn to bulk so that may be why.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/05/17 06:49 PM)
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Kenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23984850 - 01/05/17 06:55 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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cronicr



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23984857 - 01/05/17 06:57 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
i think it was wildernessjunkie who posted a great mass printing tek, i just lay foil out in sab
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
#23984864 - 01/05/17 06:59 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
i think it was wildernessjunkie who posted a great mass printing tek, i just lay foil out in sab
The thing is, if the cap physically touches the foil, the chances that some mold and bacteria is transfered to the foil is extremely high....
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23984871 - 01/05/17 07:03 PM (7 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
OK, here's an idea. If you've got a big PC then just expand the size. Use a bigger PP5 or even a small pot ... put a much bigger foil liner in it but cut out 5 - 10 small circles in it and put a big piece of foil or a bunch of small ones on the bottom. You'd have to line it up right and really get those 5-10 caps ready to put inside so nothing floats into the liner ... but I think it's the exact same principle, right? But you'd still have no caps touching the foil which is where most of the contams are transferred. I think it would work really good.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23985659 - 01/06/17 01:45 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
i think it was wildernessjunkie who posted a great mass printing tek,
Bulk Spore Printing with WJ v2.0
There it is. About 60 prints at once.
Edited by wildernessjunkie (01/06/17 02:32 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
#23985698 - 01/06/17 02:23 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
Here's another bulk print idea utilizing the same principle. take a fairly large baking pan that's at least 3-4" deep. Put your smaller square spore catching foil pieces on the bottom of it. Then with the heavy style foil, cut a bunch of round holes that the caps will fit over and then stretch the foil over the top of the baking pan so you would essentially have a similar setup. Then put one more layer of foil over that loosely to cover it up. Then, just put it in the oven to sterilize and since it's metal, you won't have to worry about anything cracking or melting. When you take it out of the oven, the foil squares on the bottom of the plan are sterile and the piece of foil you'll be putting the caps on is sterile and covered with a protective piece of foil. Then put that in your SAB and when you've got a bunch of caps, take the protective piece of foil off the top ... put all your caps over the small cut out circles and then leave in in the SAB ... I think that would work really good if I wanted to print like 10-20 caps at a time because, once again, no mushroom caps actually touch the foil that the spores are falling onto which is where 99% of contaminants are transferred to the foil.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/06/17 03:44 AM)
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic] 1
#23985791 - 01/06/17 04:25 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
Not sure if this relevant to what you're saying here, but I once tried to grow inside an oven bag where I sucked out stale air through polyfil filled tube hosing filters and blow it back in with a fish tank bubbler. then I was going to print into a jar I had in the bag from the beginning.. the idea is that the spores never see unfiltered air and if you print a bunch of caps onto the jar sides and bottom and then seal it up with a silicone coat nut then inject through a SHIP in the jar lid and use a magnet to pull the nut against the sides of the jar through the glass to release them into the water to be sucked back up... clean as a whistle.
Here I'll get the link.. I actually did get the bowl to fruit but the fuckers were sporeless. 
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7656684
It was overkill, but a fun experiment.. wish they wouldnt have come out sporeless though.
Faht
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: fahtster]
#23985801 - 01/06/17 04:38 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
fahtster said:
Quote:
kenetic said: Yeah I know bulk isn't your thing, I was just hoping you could brainstorm some ideas of printing a bunch of caps at once. If you're smart enough to come up with this, I'm sure you can think of something lol
It's cool though. Thanks for the info.
Not sure if this relevant to what you're saying here, but I once tried to grow inside an oven bag where I sucked out stale air through polyfil filled tube hosing filters and blow it back in with a fish tank bubbler. then I was going to print into a jar I had in the bag from the beginning.. the idea is that the spores never see unfiltered air and if you print a bunch of caps onto the jar sides and bottom and then seal it up with a silicone coat nut then inject through a SHIP in the jar lid and use a magnet to pull the nut against the sides of the jar through the glass to release them into the water to be sucked back up... clean as a whistle.
Here I'll get the link.. I actually did get the bowl to fruit but the fuckers were sporeless. 
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7656684
It was overkill, but a fun experiment.. wish they wouldnt have come out sporeless though.
Faht
I'm convinced the contamination that gets on a print (the foil, for instance) comes from the cap touching the foil to make the print. That's a much bigger risk than the air which can be fairly easy mitigated with a SAB. My prints got "clean" when I figured out a way to get the spores onto the foil without the cap touching the foil at any point. By suspending the cap above the foil that catches the spores, that takes the biggest source of contamination AWAY from the print itself. And it really works. Add to that, the foil print itself is sterile to begin with and you have a very high likelihood of a very clean print. Then, if the cap is grown invitro, I think the chance of contamination is probably <1% if that. But even if the cap isn't invitro, I'm finding virtually no contamination from prints done this way.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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fahtster
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23985806 - 01/06/17 04:45 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Oh yeah.. I meant to say sweet idea, to you btw.
Faht
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: fahtster]
#23985814 - 01/06/17 04:59 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Screw doing it the hard way. Get prints form lazy basterd tek. No need to care if its perfect since agar work is a must anyway. Even in a trich filled tub i find swabing right under the fruit gets me clean myc on agar to each there own. But having a 100 prints in 100 zip lock bags is hella easy.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#23985877 - 01/06/17 07:05 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Screw doing it the hard way. Get prints form lazy basterd tek. No need to care if its perfect since agar work is a must anyway. Even in a trich filled tub i find swabing right under the fruit gets me clean myc on agar to each there own. But having a 100 prints in 100 zip lock bags is hella easy.
Taking a clean print and going straight to a small grain grow is a whole lot easier than a dirty print + 3-4 agar transfers to clean it up. Start it clean and it creates a lot less re-work. I've got pins showing up for cloning by the time I get a dirty print cleaned up on agar.
I've never understood, given the hyper effort at sterility in this hobby, how being careless with taking the print makes any sense at all.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#23986113 - 01/06/17 09:45 AM (7 years, 24 days ago) |
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Because no spore print is 100 clean to begin with. With out the three or four transfer on agar i see no point in moving around grain spawn. If we could get spore prints already 100% or even 99.9999% clean we would recondment the spores to lc. I see your point but still hell easy to do in a zip lock
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#24012280 - 01/15/17 01:57 PM (7 years, 15 days ago) |
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Final update on Clone Water Experiement
Thus far, I've taken clone water from inside a total of 6 mushrooms that was transferred to a small grain jar (pastyplate size). Here's the final recap of what I learned:
- All 6 small grain jars grew out clean. Some faster than others, but none of them contaminated in a visible way.
- When getting the clone water, it's much easier if you pick a thick, half grown specimen with a meaty bottom. Only need 1-2 ml's of water in the syringe. You just need to suck back a few drops and it will work. Even the ones where I wasn't sure I'd even gotten any water sucked back into the syringe ended up growing out fine.
- I tried dropping the colonized small pucks directly into grain jars but found they colonized much faster if I dropped them in a sterile jar with about 60 ml's of water, shook it to turn it into very thick grain water, then transferred that to the new jars. Colonization was much faster (3-5 days) this way.
- Varying yields with each jar so far from fantastic to average, but all acceptable. I suppose this would be true with any cloning method.
Bottom line is this is a very easy way to clone a growing harvest with very little chance of contamination and no agar step at all. I didn't even use an SAB to get the clone water and inoculate the small PP5 jar. Can't say if this is a good process for big spawn to bulk grows, because it probably isn't (too risky) but if you want to grow/test out a bunch of clone cultures with very little fuss, low contamination risk, no agar and the only tool you need is a sterile syringe, it works. It's a way to go from harvest to next grow over and over because even if the harvest jar was a bit contaminated, the inside of the fruits it produces aren't so the clone water from each harvest will work. It's quicker and easier than a spore print, a pin to agar grow or a tissue of clone to agar and, I think, opens up the potential of cloning to just about anyone. All you need is a small PP5, foil, RGS, Syringe, Water, Pressure Cooker and could probably pull it off without the pressure cooker.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/15/17 02:21 PM)
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AndyHinton


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 434
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24013887 - 01/16/17 07:17 AM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Update: Reached 50 posts.
--------------------
Edited by AndyHinton (01/26/17 09:37 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: AndyHinton]
#24013983 - 01/16/17 08:19 AM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
AndyHinton said:
Your clone water could inoculate a small grain master, and that culture grown out would be suitable for bulk inoculation. It's another step, but I also work in open air and would be paranoid about inoculating a supplemented substrate with only 3 mL of dirty tissue water.
I'm not convinced at all that the clone water from inside the mushroom is dirty. In fact, it's proving to be consistently contam free. Just like working with Agar, there's a certain amount of technique involved to transfers, minimal hand movements, taking the right transfer tissue from the right spot on the plate, etc. Extracting the clone water is similar. But if done right, I think the small clone tissue water extracted is very clean, possibly even sterile. The samples I tested on agar from the small grain jars all looked contam free.
The real purpose of this method is to quickly test a number of half grown fruits (clones) to see if they fruit well ... And it's quite a bit faster than a pin to agar > 2-3 transfers > grow it out to see if it's good > then grow out the master and spawn to bulk ... At least to me, that's pretty time consuming rather than extract the clone water > inoculate small grain jar and grow it out.
The other use for this technique is to simply go from small grow to small grow endlessly without agar or new spores and it's essentially a 15 second technique when you harvest to get another few jars going with clean clone tissue.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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AndyHinton


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 434
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24014169 - 01/16/17 09:44 AM (7 years, 14 days ago) |
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Update: Reached 50 posts.
--------------------
Edited by AndyHinton (01/26/17 09:36 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: AndyHinton]
#24016886 - 01/17/17 09:37 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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3 more one step clone water "pasty-pucks" ready for action ... G2G to other jars or agar or both.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/17/17 09:48 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24016932 - 01/17/17 09:57 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: 3 more one step clone water "pasty-pucks" ready for action ... G2G to other jars or agar or both.

What grain is that? Those look like hella bacteria
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24016935 - 01/17/17 09:59 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Yea those ain't healthy.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24016990 - 01/17/17 10:22 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: 3 more one step clone water "pasty-pucks" ready for action ... G2G to other jars or agar or both.

What grain is that? Those look like hella bacteria 
RGS ... probably need another day or two to finish up ... The others were about the same and both grew out two good jars when I split em up. Might not be good for bulk, though ... I don't know. I did take some agar samples off one and didn't see any visible contam on the agar, but would take a microscope to be sure. I've done a lot of really good jars from pucks that look just like that.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/17/17 10:25 AM)
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca] 1
#24017048 - 01/17/17 10:50 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
How does mold enter the equation?
Bacteria is a vector for mold.
and those are bacterial. your idea is acceptable for your needs but i wouldnt do it. but its also a good demonstration of how easy cubes are to grow
good job with your grows. ive liked this thread. its shroomy
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#24017068 - 01/17/17 10:57 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
How does mold enter the equation?
Bacteria is a vector for mold.
and those are bacterial. your idea is acceptable for your needs but i wouldnt do it. but its also a good demonstration of how easy cubes are to grow
good job with your grows. ive liked this thread. its shroomy
It might be bacterial ... I don't know ... I'll take your guys word for it as you're a lot more experienced than I am. I've found personally, from the smaller (definitely not bulk) grows that I tend to do, that whatever level of bacteria this is, has little impact on yield, if any. And, since with each harvest I'm starting over with a fresh new clone water sample, the bacteria, if it exists, never gets chance to gain any ground with generations of expansion because the new clone water sample always starts relatively clean. I used to put a lot of effort into getting a squeaky clean strong LC and just grow from that over and over, but I kinda got bored with it, to be honest. The idea of having a different clone growing each new jar became a lot more interesting so I start a new MS grow every once in awhile to refresh the genetics and then each jar from that point is off of its own individual clone water start. There's a lot of mystery to it with each jar having it's own individual personality.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/17/17 11:03 AM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24017118 - 01/17/17 11:20 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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I'd be curious if you guys think that the pictures from post #23978484 in this thread (page 4 on my count) look bacterial or not?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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mushboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24017123 - 01/17/17 11:22 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: Nice! your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....
No offence but not a fan. Like I said, no offence.
few replies later.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
#24017192 - 01/17/17 11:51 AM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
kenetic said: Nice! your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....
No offence but not a fan. Like I said, no offence.
few replies later.
The jar in the picture (bacterial) that was cased with verm grew out really good. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever lost a jar, at least that I'm aware of, because it went bacterial ... I've lost some to mold for sure. Only really serious bacteria issue I ever had was with a print I got from someone else that had a lot of red and black stuff that grew from it, but my own prints and clones don't have bacteria that impacts the grow much.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24017243 - 01/17/17 12:13 PM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Bacteria isn't a huge issue if the colony remains unbroken. When spawning even small amounts of bacteria can lead to mold. However in my experience bacteria will lead to a small drop in BE even in the case of an unbroken colony.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24017286 - 01/17/17 12:37 PM (7 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Bacteria isn't a huge issue if the colony remains unbroken. When spawning even small amounts of bacteria can lead to mold. However in my experience bacteria will lead to a small drop in BE even in the case of an unbroken colony.
Thanks, P. Your knowledge and advice is ALWAYS appreciated.
Good luck with your mother of all tubs grow.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24029740 - 01/22/17 06:25 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Latest Clone Water Jar getting going ....
This latest jar, from clone water extraction to these pins (which showed up about 3 days ago) was exactly 31 days. Looks like it will be a pretty big first flush as this strain tends to grow big, tall fruits. The mushroom I took the clone water out of was from a MS grow ... I'm going to do clone water starters with 2-3 of the mushrooms from this flush and see how many generations it will work. Straight RGS cased with VERM.

-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/22/17 06:35 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24029777 - 01/22/17 07:21 AM (7 years, 8 days ago) |
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Here are two jars three days after I inoculated them with a "clone water puck" which is a pastyplate type PP5 with RGS inoculated with the clone water ... it colonized then I "tiger dropped" the puck into a wide mouthed pint mason jar with about 50ml's of sterile water ...

... then shook the crap out of it then split it into these two jars, shook violently and here's what they look like 3-days later.

The puck was slow to colonize ... took 17-days. But it seems to be colonizing these jars pretty fast. Might have been that the clone water inoculation just contained a tiny amount of tissue that took a while to replicate and get going.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/22/17 07:24 AM)
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ichugwindex
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24038550 - 01/25/17 12:31 PM (7 years, 5 days ago) |
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Im loving this
I would really like to see pics of exactly where and at what angle that you make your scalpel cuts and injections on these fruits
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
Edited by ichugwindex (01/25/17 12:54 PM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: ichugwindex]
#24047244 - 01/28/17 06:57 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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First Flush from a Clone Water Jar that is just pure RGS cased with verm. This one took
-17 days to colonize the small PP5 RGS puck (longer than others) after clone water inoculation - 10 days to fully colonize a 2/3 full PP5 Quart with RGS after G2G with grain puck - 12-days to pin after being cased with verm - 7 days after first pins until this picture.

These were from clone water from an MS grow and I'll start 3 more clone water pucks from these fruits that will be clones from the first generation clone water to see if growth characteristics are similar. Most likely, the 2nd flush will be bigger than the first.
It's not as big a flush as most of the others and it came from a clone water puck that was slow to colonize. Two of the fruits were 9+ inches tall, though Probably the weakest of all the clone water jars I've done so far.
For a noob that wants a pretty simple way to grow a steady stream of mushrooms from jars with basically two ingredients ... RGS and Verm ... with no fruiting chamber needed and wants to get into cloning, this is pretty frigging easy. If you want to get into bigger bulk grows, this is not the path ... It might be, but it hasn't been tested. Certainly, though, to create a never ending nearly free (about 20 cents a jar) supply of (15-30 oz's dry per jar) them, this is a very reliable way to do it. Agar is more certain, but a lot more steps and time.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/28/17 11:06 PM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: ichugwindex]
#24047259 - 01/28/17 07:04 PM (7 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
ichugwindex said:

Im loving this
I would really like to see pics of exactly where and at what angle that you make your scalpel cuts and injections on these fruits
It's very simple. After picking the fruit, I take a red hot scalpel and just cut about 1/3 of an inch off the bottom into the meaty part of the bottom of the stem. Then, I insert a red hot syringe needle right into the center of the meaty bottom that has just been sliced up into the stem holding it horizontally. You can easily feel when the tip of the needle gets through the meaty thicker bottom into the hollow part of the stem. You know the center because there is, at least on my fruits, a small very white center that I just use to target the going in spot. Then I slowly squeeze ALL (about 2 ml) of the water into the hollow stem then pull the needle back until it "feels" like it's just coming back into the solid meaty part of the bottom. Then I turn the fruit so it is upright and gravity pulls the water I pushed in down toward the waiting tip of my needle that is now just above the solid part of the bottom of the stem and then I slowly try and suck back the water I pushed in. I usually get about 5-7 drops or so. Then I pull it out and quickly quickly inject this water into a small sterilized PP5 jar with a little RGS in it right through a foil top (I hate those plastic lids they come with) and tape the small hole and put it aside to colonize. Entire procedure is 15-30 seconds. Thus far, I haven't been doing this in an SAB and haven't had any of the PP5 small pucks contaminate.
I don't claim it's 100% sterile and don't know, to be totally honest, but I do know it's clean enough to consistently colonize a small RGS puck that's clean enough to G2G to a couple of quart jars that fruit consistently as good as the picture in the post above.
I suppose if I find a clone that fruits exceptionally well and I want to keep it, I'll just put some clone tissue from that harvest on agar and clean it up to prep it for a LC jar although I don't think that's really necessary given how easy and simple it is to start new starter pucks when I harvest. I just now sterilize 10 small syringes at a time in the PC with 2 ml's of water already in them so they're 100% ready for use at harvest time. I have f'd the procedure up a couple of time and it's really no big deal ... I just pick another fruit, grab another syringe and try it again. Does no harm at all to the fruits and they just go into the the dehydrator with all the rest.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (01/28/17 07:19 PM)
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ichugwindex
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24051877 - 01/30/17 02:16 PM (7 years, 9 hours ago) |
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I like this. I also enjoy how you are taking your prints and Just finished getting a print like this myself. Way to go man
-------------------- Only hope can give rise to the emotion we call despair. But it is nearly impossible for a man to try to live without hope, so I guess that leaves Man no choice but to walk around with despair as his companion.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: ichugwindex]
#24064363 - 02/04/17 06:12 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
ichugwindex said:
I like this. I also enjoy how you are taking your prints and Just finished getting a print like this myself. Way to go man
Thanks! Here's another PP5 from a clone water starter that is ready for harvest this morning in its own, self contained fruiting chamber ... no misting, fanning, drilling holes, perlite, stuffing with polyfill, micropore tape, tyvek or special lighting needed. If there's an easier or faster way to quickly and reliably clone and fruit jars after jar without agar, I haven't come across it.

Took a total of 26 days from clone water procedure until this. Clone water on to straight RGS ... cased with Verm ... bottom watered when pins showed up.
When I harvest, I'll do the same clone water procedure to a couple of them and start two new small pp5 grain pucks ... the cycle starts again.... and it always starts with what is proving to be very clean clone tissue that is fully capable of colonizing a jar and fruiting well without contaminating. If you just want a steady, never ending supply of fresh mushrooms coming in flushes of 80-125 grams (wet) with 5-10 continuous jars that can all fit literally on a 18" x 24" book case slot, this is a very easy way to do it. No liquid cultures, agar, LI, Blenders, SAB, complex growing formulas, pasteurizing, or any of that stuff.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/04/17 07:23 AM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24064388 - 02/04/17 06:36 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here's a second flush getting ready to take off from a clone water jar pictured a few posts back. Looks like it will be about double the size of the first flush.

Now is the perfect time to bottom water this jar.
This is the same jar that a number of people had said looked loaded with bacterial contams.
One of the nice pluses of growing this way is that side pinning is a complete non-issue ... if they side pin... great ... if they pin from the center ... great ... makes no difference. They're always easy to harvest and side pins grow just as big as the others.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/04/17 07:11 AM)
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oontribe


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24064456 - 02/04/17 07:13 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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monitoring this thread
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: oontribe]
#24064658 - 02/04/17 09:21 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why RGS? Several people PM'd me to ask why straight RGS and not another formula or mixture. There are four key reasons why RGS is a great choice here:
1) Rye Grass Seed, if you boil it then drain it, doesn't clump up at all after Pressure Cooking it in jars. This makes it very easy to G2G and shake it and get really good inoculation throughout the jar with no need to re-shake it again. You really have to try to screw up the prep of RGS ... moisture content is perfect with virtually no effort a all. boil ... drain for 15 minutes ... done
2) I find RGS colonizes really fast. Probably because it packs less densely than other grains.
3) You get maximum yield per jar simply because it's all grain and nutrition and no "filler" additives for water retention, which you really don't need if you bottom water. With bottom watering, you are 100% sure the substrate has exactly as much water as it needs for maximum growth and it's interesting to see how fast the mycellium sucks up the water and converts it into the growing fruits. You literally see the water being converted because it happens fast once pins start showing up.
4) It's ultra easy to prepare. One ingredient. Boil the RGS a half hour ... drain ... spoon into jars, PC ... done. When it's colonized, sprinkle some verm on top ... mist it to get it wet ... done. Pins show up, take off the lid and replace with a hood to get more air in there and that's about it. Mushrooms fruit very well right off the RGS ... if you want to add other stuff to the formula you can, but It's not going to generate better yields or potency from my experience.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Brain Fart
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24064849 - 02/04/17 10:52 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wouldn't be cloning any hollow fruits
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065561 - 02/04/17 05:05 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: I wouldn't be cloning any hollow fruits

Why is that?
A lot of pretty informed people on this site attribute hollowness of the stems to growing temps... Certainly some strains like PE or APE are going to have much thicker stems, but I know I can lower the growing temperatures for the cultures I grow and they will be shorter and thicker. I prefer warmer temps and they grow faster and taller with hollower stems.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065669 - 02/04/17 05:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ah but some fruits won't grow hollow regardless of temps. Those are far more preferable to clone because they tend to yield better. But you aren't really concerned about yield anyway.
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Brain Fart
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065696 - 02/04/17 06:05 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing is more irritating than a tub of hollow stems lol.
Unless a culture has a desirable aesthetic quality, hollow stems are 
Environmental factors are not as much an effect as genetics on this particular aspect.


My fiji isolate
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065715 - 02/04/17 06:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Brain Fart check out my figi clone. . .

I haven't grown it in ages but I did just pull the slant out and was gonna plate it later tonight. Got the figi from some guy who gives away prints on his birthday. . .
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Brain Fart
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065727 - 02/04/17 06:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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I remember I gave you a fiji print from this grow on my birthday many moons ago. You said it ended up creating one of your fav cultures

 I loved how they looked. And solid fatty dense stems
Edit: haha just noticed you remembered.
Plate that shit and send me a print. I lost most of my original collection in a move and breakup lol. Starting from scratch
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065737 - 02/04/17 06:20 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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It was a great clone. Hopefully I can revive it. It's been in the slant a long time but the culture on the wood looks great. Loved this clone.
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Brain Fart
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065748 - 02/04/17 06:24 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Keep me in the loop. It was literally my favorite culture of all time.
Alright I'll stop threadjacking lulz
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065781 - 02/04/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Ah but some fruits won't grow hollow regardless of temps. Those are far more preferable to clone because they tend to yield better. But you aren't really concerned about yield anyway.
That's true. I've got one culture that grows big tall fruits that have relatively hollow stems ... but most of the fruits are about 7 inches tall ... not solid stems, but they weight a lot (20-40 grams each), nonetheless. Lots of ways to get weight. Thick stems is certainly one of them. With that same culture, if I drop the temperature to the low 60's they grow at least 2 inches shorter, but thicker ... but it takes almost twice as long for them to develop.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/04/17 06:45 PM)
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Brain Fart
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065854 - 02/04/17 07:18 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Some cubensis that grow larger have hollow stems almost always. I agree you can get weight still I just prefer the thuck meaty bastards
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065866 - 02/04/17 07:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: Some cubensis that grow larger have hollow stems almost always. I agree you can get weight still I just prefer the thuck meaty bastards
The thickest meatiest strain I ever grew was PE ... but they grew much slower than others I have. It was really cool how thick they were but now I tend to like the taller ones that grow fast.
Really thick ones also take a long time to dry out.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Brain Fart
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Registered: 12/19/07
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065882 - 02/04/17 07:28 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Really thick ones also take a long time to dry out.

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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24067691 - 02/05/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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1 day later, same clone water jar on its second flush. This is the stage where it's really important to bottom water and keep a lot of water in there because they suck it up fast. Probably 3 more inches of growth will happen \ in next 24 hours.
They are at the perfect size, though, if I wanted to do a clone water extraction on them and start some new PP5 pucks. Half grown works better than full grown, I've found. I've got a lot of other clone water jars in process now so I'll use these to get a couple of clean prints and start some MS jars.

-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/05/17 02:22 PM)
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069145 - 02/06/17 05:36 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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About 16 hours later ... They sucked up virtually all the water that was in there and I had to refill ... So this jar answers the question of can you clone without agar and grow a healthy jar as this one is on its 2nd very nice flush with 16 fruits coming up ... Probably about 2 more inches of growing to go. Should produce a couple of excellent prints. Nothing about this jar is exceptional so no reason to keep this culture going.

This jar is almost all side pins that grew out ... nice thing about growing in jars like this is side pinning really doesn't matter. They grow as big, if not bigger than pins from the center and cluster just as well too.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/06/17 05:45 AM)
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069197 - 02/06/17 06:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Those look pretty good actually. Just an FYI you can clone without agar via 9er tek or biopsy to LC. Both of those have a lot of vectors but can work some of the time. I would say your method looks to have fewer vectors than those methods. Good for Vtek and cakes for sure.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24069350 - 02/06/17 08:54 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Those look pretty good actually. Just an FYI you can clone without agar via 9er tek or biopsy to LC. Both of those have a lot of vectors but can work some of the time. I would say your method looks to have fewer vectors than those methods. Good for Vtek and cakes for sure.
Thanks, P.
I tried the biopsy to LC technique, the needle poke through the stem method to LC and didn't have any success and gave up on it after a few tries. The 9er clone tissue tek looks good, but clearly is a bigger production with an SAB, sterile knife, blender mason jar ... You would get much, much more clone tissue though so colonization would be faster, for sure as I think the amount of clone starter tissue I get with my method is miniscule in comparison.
Something I'm trying to figure out is how much "better" the genetics are from a really good clone than from the spores of that clone? I'm finding that the MS grows from my good clones are now nearly as good (sometimes better) as the clones themselves. The MS grows just keep getting better and better with each generation so the variables in genetics from the spores must be getting tighter and tighter and tighter with each clone generation, right? At some point, do you get to a place where the spores are creating nearly identical genetics as the clone tissue?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069649 - 02/06/17 11:25 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Spores is always a dice roll. Sometimes it's a 7. Sometimes you hit snake eyes. Clones offer consistency, nothing more. Shitty clones perform shitty, good clones do good. Test 100 clones, pitch 99, keep one, enjoy your fruits in the meantime. Once you have your keeper culture, grow it and take care of it. It can last for a long time if you care for it.
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tump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24069788 - 02/06/17 12:34 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dude your just lucky. I've tried three times since last time and got no growth on the agar plates.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#24069802 - 02/06/17 12:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Dude your just lucky. I've tried three times since last time and got no growth on the agar plates.
So far, I've done 11 new clone water extractions and 10 of them grew out, 1 didn't. Of those 10, 7 grew out relatively quickly and 3 took a week longer. Like anything else, including agar work, it takes some technique to do it right. The trick, I think, is once you have the water squeezed into the mushroom, to then pull the needle back so the tip barely back into the meaty base of the stem and then suck the water back.
If you're going to put it on agar, why bother doing it this way? Just pinch a little tissue with tweezers and put that on agar. The whole purpose of this approach is to not have to do agar and reduce the likelihood of contamination by never opening the inside of the mushroom up an exposing it to air.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24074357 - 02/08/17 08:20 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Final results of one clone water jar about 2/3 filled with RGS and cased with Verm ... two good flushes ... 23g cracker dry ... some lightening in a bottle.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/08/17 09:01 AM)
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Arkansania
Stranger



Registered: 10/12/20
Posts: 13
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#27232020 - 03/01/21 12:21 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know this is an old thread but wanted to share that I've had success 5 out of 5 times doing this. 4 of the times I inculcated straight to whole brown rice jars and 1 of the times I inoculated onto agar. Saw NO visible contams on any of the inoculations and have since fruited multiple tubs with no issues. Keep in mind I have an extremely sterile environment and I am very careful during the process. My steps, find straight stem fruit, trim base of fruit, dip whole fruit in h202,use new needle, heat needle, suck up distilled water, heat needle, inject into base of fruit, wait 5 seconds, never remove needle, suck up water. Usually about 2cc. Heat needle, immediately inoculate. All under flow hood.
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Drmbanana
Medical



Registered: 12/19/22
Posts: 117
Loc: PNW
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Arkansania]
#28115870 - 12/29/22 12:01 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Bump because this is such a great noob tek! Great results and this will be my go to.
Some questions Kauai:
How do you make mycelium water and what are its benefits?
What is IL an it’s benefits?
Any reason not to use popcorn as a grain? The only reason I ask is I have many jars of that rolling right now:)
Love the tek and will be adding it to Vtek. Thank you so much for sharing!
-------------------- Let food be they medicine and medicine be thy food…
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,270
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Drmbanana]
#28118366 - 12/31/22 04:09 AM (1 year, 29 days ago) |
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I don’t think they’re gonna answer.. last seen : 5+ years ago haha
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