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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: oontribe]
#24064658 - 02/04/17 09:21 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Why RGS? Several people PM'd me to ask why straight RGS and not another formula or mixture. There are four key reasons why RGS is a great choice here:
1) Rye Grass Seed, if you boil it then drain it, doesn't clump up at all after Pressure Cooking it in jars. This makes it very easy to G2G and shake it and get really good inoculation throughout the jar with no need to re-shake it again. You really have to try to screw up the prep of RGS ... moisture content is perfect with virtually no effort a all. boil ... drain for 15 minutes ... done
2) I find RGS colonizes really fast. Probably because it packs less densely than other grains.
3) You get maximum yield per jar simply because it's all grain and nutrition and no "filler" additives for water retention, which you really don't need if you bottom water. With bottom watering, you are 100% sure the substrate has exactly as much water as it needs for maximum growth and it's interesting to see how fast the mycellium sucks up the water and converts it into the growing fruits. You literally see the water being converted because it happens fast once pins start showing up.
4) It's ultra easy to prepare. One ingredient. Boil the RGS a half hour ... drain ... spoon into jars, PC ... done. When it's colonized, sprinkle some verm on top ... mist it to get it wet ... done. Pins show up, take off the lid and replace with a hood to get more air in there and that's about it. Mushrooms fruit very well right off the RGS ... if you want to add other stuff to the formula you can, but It's not going to generate better yields or potency from my experience.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24064849 - 02/04/17 10:52 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wouldn't be cloning any hollow fruits
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065561 - 02/04/17 05:05 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: I wouldn't be cloning any hollow fruits

Why is that?
A lot of pretty informed people on this site attribute hollowness of the stems to growing temps... Certainly some strains like PE or APE are going to have much thicker stems, but I know I can lower the growing temperatures for the cultures I grow and they will be shorter and thicker. I prefer warmer temps and they grow faster and taller with hollower stems.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065669 - 02/04/17 05:56 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ah but some fruits won't grow hollow regardless of temps. Those are far more preferable to clone because they tend to yield better. But you aren't really concerned about yield anyway.
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065696 - 02/04/17 06:05 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing is more irritating than a tub of hollow stems lol.
Unless a culture has a desirable aesthetic quality, hollow stems are 
Environmental factors are not as much an effect as genetics on this particular aspect.


My fiji isolate
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065715 - 02/04/17 06:11 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hey Brain Fart check out my figi clone. . .

I haven't grown it in ages but I did just pull the slant out and was gonna plate it later tonight. Got the figi from some guy who gives away prints on his birthday. . .
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065727 - 02/04/17 06:16 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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I remember I gave you a fiji print from this grow on my birthday many moons ago. You said it ended up creating one of your fav cultures

 I loved how they looked. And solid fatty dense stems
Edit: haha just noticed you remembered.
Plate that shit and send me a print. I lost most of my original collection in a move and breakup lol. Starting from scratch
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065737 - 02/04/17 06:20 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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It was a great clone. Hopefully I can revive it. It's been in the slant a long time but the culture on the wood looks great. Loved this clone.
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065748 - 02/04/17 06:24 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Keep me in the loop. It was literally my favorite culture of all time.
Alright I'll stop threadjacking lulz
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24065781 - 02/04/17 06:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Ah but some fruits won't grow hollow regardless of temps. Those are far more preferable to clone because they tend to yield better. But you aren't really concerned about yield anyway.
That's true. I've got one culture that grows big tall fruits that have relatively hollow stems ... but most of the fruits are about 7 inches tall ... not solid stems, but they weight a lot (20-40 grams each), nonetheless. Lots of ways to get weight. Thick stems is certainly one of them. With that same culture, if I drop the temperature to the low 60's they grow at least 2 inches shorter, but thicker ... but it takes almost twice as long for them to develop.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/04/17 06:45 PM)
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065854 - 02/04/17 07:18 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Some cubensis that grow larger have hollow stems almost always. I agree you can get weight still I just prefer the thuck meaty bastards
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24065866 - 02/04/17 07:23 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brain Fart said: Some cubensis that grow larger have hollow stems almost always. I agree you can get weight still I just prefer the thuck meaty bastards
The thickest meatiest strain I ever grew was PE ... but they grew much slower than others I have. It was really cool how thick they were but now I tend to like the taller ones that grow fast.
Really thick ones also take a long time to dry out.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Brain Fart
Mushroom Nerd



Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Your Mom
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24065882 - 02/04/17 07:28 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said:
Really thick ones also take a long time to dry out.

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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Brain Fart]
#24067691 - 02/05/17 02:17 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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1 day later, same clone water jar on its second flush. This is the stage where it's really important to bottom water and keep a lot of water in there because they suck it up fast. Probably 3 more inches of growth will happen \ in next 24 hours.
They are at the perfect size, though, if I wanted to do a clone water extraction on them and start some new PP5 pucks. Half grown works better than full grown, I've found. I've got a lot of other clone water jars in process now so I'll use these to get a couple of clean prints and start some MS jars.

-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/05/17 02:22 PM)
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KauaiOrca
Waterman

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069145 - 02/06/17 05:36 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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About 16 hours later ... They sucked up virtually all the water that was in there and I had to refill ... So this jar answers the question of can you clone without agar and grow a healthy jar as this one is on its 2nd very nice flush with 16 fruits coming up ... Probably about 2 more inches of growing to go. Should produce a couple of excellent prints. Nothing about this jar is exceptional so no reason to keep this culture going.

This jar is almost all side pins that grew out ... nice thing about growing in jars like this is side pinning really doesn't matter. They grow as big, if not bigger than pins from the center and cluster just as well too.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
Edited by KauaiOrca (02/06/17 05:45 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069197 - 02/06/17 06:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Those look pretty good actually. Just an FYI you can clone without agar via 9er tek or biopsy to LC. Both of those have a lot of vectors but can work some of the time. I would say your method looks to have fewer vectors than those methods. Good for Vtek and cakes for sure.
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24069350 - 02/06/17 08:54 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Those look pretty good actually. Just an FYI you can clone without agar via 9er tek or biopsy to LC. Both of those have a lot of vectors but can work some of the time. I would say your method looks to have fewer vectors than those methods. Good for Vtek and cakes for sure.
Thanks, P.
I tried the biopsy to LC technique, the needle poke through the stem method to LC and didn't have any success and gave up on it after a few tries. The 9er clone tissue tek looks good, but clearly is a bigger production with an SAB, sterile knife, blender mason jar ... You would get much, much more clone tissue though so colonization would be faster, for sure as I think the amount of clone starter tissue I get with my method is miniscule in comparison.
Something I'm trying to figure out is how much "better" the genetics are from a really good clone than from the spores of that clone? I'm finding that the MS grows from my good clones are now nearly as good (sometimes better) as the clones themselves. The MS grows just keep getting better and better with each generation so the variables in genetics from the spores must be getting tighter and tighter and tighter with each clone generation, right? At some point, do you get to a place where the spores are creating nearly identical genetics as the clone tissue?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#24069649 - 02/06/17 11:25 AM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Spores is always a dice roll. Sometimes it's a 7. Sometimes you hit snake eyes. Clones offer consistency, nothing more. Shitty clones perform shitty, good clones do good. Test 100 clones, pitch 99, keep one, enjoy your fruits in the meantime. Once you have your keeper culture, grow it and take care of it. It can last for a long time if you care for it.
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#24069788 - 02/06/17 12:34 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dude your just lucky. I've tried three times since last time and got no growth on the agar plates.
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KauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
#24069802 - 02/06/17 12:42 PM (6 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: Dude your just lucky. I've tried three times since last time and got no growth on the agar plates.
So far, I've done 11 new clone water extractions and 10 of them grew out, 1 didn't. Of those 10, 7 grew out relatively quickly and 3 took a week longer. Like anything else, including agar work, it takes some technique to do it right. The trick, I think, is once you have the water squeezed into the mushroom, to then pull the needle back so the tip barely back into the meaty base of the stem and then suck the water back.
If you're going to put it on agar, why bother doing it this way? Just pinch a little tissue with tweezers and put that on agar. The whole purpose of this approach is to not have to do agar and reduce the likelihood of contamination by never opening the inside of the mushroom up an exposing it to air.
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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