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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23963703 - 12/28/16 07:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Well we are still interested, pics are always nice. But you are right, this isn't about a massive or even medium sized expansion. It's a quick kick to achieve a quick clone for a one off grow. Which has its place, certainly as far as cloning methods go this is a lot safer than biopsy to LC. There is some risk that might not show as vectors until a few cracks at it. But in the short run it seems to have merits.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23964654 - 12/29/16 04:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well we are still interested, pics are always nice. But you are right, this isn't about a massive or even medium sized expansion. It's a quick kick to achieve a quick clone for a one off grow. Which has its place, certainly as far as cloning methods go this is a lot safer than biopsy to LC. There is some risk that might not show as vectors until a few cracks at it. But in the short run it seems to have merits.




What I'm thinking is this is a great way to very quickly grow out 5-10 different clones without having to do 2-3 transfers of pins/agar for each one.  I'm only cloning ideal fruits.  Essentially from clone water extraction to harvested jar in 20-30 days.  So if I find a clone that is a super producer, then I'll take clone water from one of those and go the agar route if I want to save that culture.  Truth is, for my needs, the results I get just from MS with the strain I'm using is definitely acceptable, this is just a fun way to always have a few bottles growing with essentially seven elements:

1. RGS
2. Ziploc twist n loc jars
3. 10ml syringes
4. Vermiculite for casing
5. Pressure cooker
6. Foil
7. Water

And that's it ... And very low fuss, low contamination risk and everything fits on a bookshelf that's 12" x 24" ... no fruiting chamber ... no humidity issues ... no agar ... no jars in the fridge.. and those jars are super easy to harvest, clean and they're PERFECT for taking ultra clean spore prints too.

The hardest part is finding a strain that likes those growing conditions.  Thankfully I've got one that just seems to get better and better with every generation as if it's tuning/adapting itself to growing on RGS pretty much invitro.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23978484 - 01/03/17 11:05 AM (7 years, 27 days ago)

Some Clone Water Experiment Pictures

Here are some pictures from a clone water jar I started about a week before the one I'm logging ... I didn't keep dates, but think from clone water extraction to harvest was 28 days give or take a few.  I was traveling a lot and forget exactly.  I was so sloppy with this one (dropped the needle, had a hard time getting any water out, etc.) that I was certain it would contaminate, but it didn't.

Here is the first clone water harvest ... clone water > small PP5 > G2G to jar > verm case ... All of them were straight RGS ... nothing else, just cased with plain vermiculite and bottom watered when they started growing.

Under the dome ...



Stretching out without the dome ...



7 day old clone water in small RGS filled PP5 from another clone water extraction (2-3 more days and the RGS puck becomes G2G)



2 days after casing with verm



Thus far, I've got 6 clone water experiments going and 5 appear contam free and one isn't growing at all.  No contamination visible on any of them and 5 different clones being tested with good shot of clone extraction to fruit in less than a month with no agar step at all.


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/03/17 01:21 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981422 - 01/04/17 01:10 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Clone water LC ... Clone water direct to honey LC ... turned out clean



Clone Water LI ... Clone water > agar > LI



--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineTiamo
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981451 - 01/04/17 01:24 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Looks good, but I don't know why you inject the water inside of the mushroom and then take that water? I've seen people just take a bit of tissue from inside the stem and use that directly to inoculate jars or LC. It seems to me the injecting bit is just another step that doesn't really add anything. Maybe it's faster, but I'm not sure.


--------------------


If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results?

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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Tiamo]
    #23981525 - 01/04/17 01:54 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Tiamo said:
Looks good, but I don't know why you inject the water inside of the mushroom and then take that water? I've seen people just take a bit of tissue from inside the stem and use that directly to inoculate jars or LC. It seems to me the injecting bit is just another step that doesn't really add anything. Maybe it's faster, but I'm not sure.




I do it this way because it's super fast and easy and unlikely to contaminate.  Entire procedure is about 10 seconds ... no SAB even needed.  When you take a tissue biopsy, you gotta get out the SAB, clean everything up ... open up the fruit ... tweezer out some hopefully clean tissue and then either put it on Agar (figure two transfers = 2 weeks)  or make some kind of clone blended inoculant. 

What I do is have my syringes ready... sterile with 2ml's of water ... needle ready to go ... there's a good fruit ... stick the needle into the sterile hollow center of the fruit ... push water in, suck it out... never tear it up and expose the inside to open air ... and quickly shoot it into a small grain jar.  Done.  Starts growing on grain immediately... G2G in a 6-10 days.  On a harvest day, if I've got 5 syringes ready, can have 5 clones growing on grain literally with about 3 minutes of effort and I'm testing 5 different clones ... can get to fruiting in about a month.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 02:04 PM)


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OfflineTiamo
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981563 - 01/04/17 02:12 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Do you use a SHIP for your jars? That would explain it. I would have to get the old SAB out if I wanted to inoculate some jars with a needle.


--------------------


If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results?

Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just :pm:

:mushroom2: Mush love :mushroom2:


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Tiamo]
    #23981587 - 01/04/17 02:23 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Tiamo said:
Do you use a SHIP for your jars? That would explain it. I would have to get the old SAB out if I wanted to inoculate some jars with a needle.




I don't use a SHP or even normal jars.  I prepare about a dozen of the small PP5 jars (pastyplate size) with about half full of grain and don't use the covers.  Instead, use two layers of foil. and just close them up with the foil.  Then, when I have the syringe ready, just wipe the top with a clorox wipe, quickly stick the needle through the foil, shoot it on the grain, pull it out and put a piece of scotch tape on to cover the hole.  I'm sure I'm violating every possible sterile rule but I rarely, if ever get contamination this way.  I do it the same for LI or LC.  Then, when that small amount of grain turns into a colonized white inoculation puck, I can just go G2G or go grain water ... I only use the pucks that show fast vigorous growth and just toss the others.

I think, because I live in a very dry area and have a really clean house, I just don't have the same amount of contaminants in the air some people have.  When I lived in Hawaii, I had to be a lot more careful.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981600 - 01/04/17 02:29 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

when you stick the needle into the outside of the mushroom you are pushing the tissue
into the needle itself. so when you 'inject' into the center that piece of tissue gets
shot back into the center with the water and it gets sucked up.

you can accomplish the same thing without the water. try it. ive done it.
maybe the water distributes the tissue better but :shrug:

and your inoc tek sounds dirty af.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
    #23981617 - 01/04/17 02:34 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
when you stick the needle into the outside of the mushroom you are pushing the tissue
into the needle itself. so when you 'inject' into the center that piece of tissue gets
shot back into the center with the water and it gets sucked up.

you can accomplish the same thing without the water. try it. ive done it.
maybe the water distributes the tissue better but :shrug:

and your inoc tek sounds dirty af.




All possible.  I tried it without water and didn't get the same results.  If I do it right, I suck back about 1 ml of water that I then shoot into a small grain PP5.  Also, I heat the tip of the needle before putting it into the mushroom ... through the meaty bottom ... I think that might help with contamination, I don't know.  All I know is that 5 of the 6 clone water attempts I've made have worked with, thus far, no contamination. 

Also, keep in mind, I don't do bulk grows so don't ever spawn to bulk and have big expansion of spawn so my grain doesn't have to be squeaky clean.  For the small grows I do, whatever level of contamination I get, if any, isn't having any real impact. 

Its really just harvest > 4-5 clone "pucks" > G2G the 2 fastest best and toss the others, then next batch ... low fuss level.  Just have to PC a batch of needles and small grain jars for each harvest.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 02:56 PM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981632 - 01/04/17 02:41 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

i get the point of your idea and i like it because it suits your needs since you
dont do big bulk grows and its nice to do something without agar because agar scares people off(i was one until i took the leap)

i was just pointing out that you can do the same thing by just pushing a needle into
the mush...and pull it out. 9/10 you will see a piece of tissue inside the syringe
which can then be injected onto whatever. but neither is a 'clean' approach because
that tissue inside the needle is not 100% clean the way you can clean the culture
up on agar so even though it hasnt contam'd (yet) it could... which is why you go agar.. just my 2cents...and rantings. sorry

i still dig it!


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
    #23981657 - 01/04/17 02:51 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
i get the point of your idea and i like it because it suits your needs since you
dont do big bulk grows and its nice to do something without agar because agar scares people off(i was one until i took the leap)

i was just pointing out that you can do the same thing by just pushing a needle into
the mush...and pull it out. 9/10 you will see a piece of tissue inside the syringe
which can then be injected onto whatever. but neither is a 'clean' approach because
that tissue inside the needle is not 100% clean the way you can clean the culture
up on agar so even though it hasnt contam'd (yet) it could... which is why you go agar.. just my 2cents...and rantings. sorry

i still dig it!




Thanks for your thoughts.  I've done a lot of agar and still use it sometimes, if I've got a culture I really like ... I was just looking for a way to cut down on steps and try to get to a system where I don't store anything anymore in the fridge or make LC's or any of that.  It's just harvest > clone water 4-5 pucks > next ... I take spore prints in a way where they're super clean (from invitro grows) and start those too on the small grain pucks ... no SAB or agar and 9 out of 10 times they grow fine then start new clone water jars.  Kind of a simple, low fuss system where I rarely even pull out the SAB anymore.  Clean syringes, RGS, verm and PP5 jars with foil is it.  I really started this to see how fast I could go from clone to pins.

I just kinda like having a few jars growing at all times at different stages so somethings nearly always pinning and if one goes bad, no big deal because it's not a big tub.  just keep it all on a small bookshelf and get close to an ounce per jar.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981661 - 01/04/17 02:54 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

:manofapproval:


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: mushboy]
    #23981741 - 01/04/17 03:37 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Nice!  your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....

No offence but not a fan.  Like I said, no offence.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23981762 - 01/04/17 03:47 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
Nice!  your sub does seem pretty bacterial though, based on the pressed look of the grains on the glass.....

No offence but not a fan.  Like I said, no offence.




Bacterial?  Keep in mind that's a plastic PP5 and not glass.  Definitely did not smell bacterial at all, but you may be right, I don't know.  To me, it looks like a clean jar but I don't expand spawn to bulk so your standard for "clean" or "bacterial" may be a lot higher and more finely tuned.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23981794 - 01/04/17 04:01 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow.  I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.

For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement.  You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five.  This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow. 

cool


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23981818 - 01/04/17 04:11 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow.  I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.

For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement.  You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five.  This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow. 

cool



Quote:

kenetic said:
For some reason I haven't taken into account that you fruit right off the sub you inject into for a small grow.  I do admit that my standards are pretty high so this may also have influenced my decision.

For a little grow like yours it seems to be working out so I'll take back my statement.  You've clearly pointed out that you have no intention of spawning to bulk, so I can overlook "my standards" and give you a high five.  This might be great for someone starting out, looking for a small batch that would be better than the average ms grow. 

cool




Thanks.  Yeah, I agree that this might be a pretty easy route for a new grower just trying to get a clone going quickly.  There definitely is some technique involved in the clone water extraction with the syringe, but there's a lot technique and process steps with agar in a SAB too. 

The main goal I had was to see how quickly I could go from a harvested clone fruit to the next harvest and to see if it could be done in <30-days total bypassing the agar cleanup step which is, with 2-3 transfers at least a 2 week process.  I think it is possible for sure.  But what I found is it's a way to just keep a grow going and going without LC or LI ... as long as I take a print every once in awhile and start that one.  Even if the sub is somewhat contaminated, the inside of the fruit I get the clone water from is most likely clean ... so as long as the sub in the bottle is good enough to give one good yield, all is good and the cycle just keeps going.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/04/17 04:12 PM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23982298 - 01/04/17 07:13 PM (7 years, 26 days ago)

If you get into this hobby deep enough you'll have plenty of cultures to keep you busy.  I have a few (dozen) plates going at a time and making a clone takes less than one minute to transfer safely to a dish.  I am constantly germinating spores or transferring or cloning and I don't even give time a second thought.  I don't wait for shit.  I am pretty busy perfecting my contributions to this hobby due to my wide interest and progressiveness. 

It's pretty simple.  If you finish with one project, start another.  You can always sacrifice a couple happy hours for a much greater future gain.  Soon you won't ever feel anxious about when your spores are gonna germinate or if your clone to grain will contaminate. 
You'll have a bunch of baskets with a bunch of eggs.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23983718 - 01/05/17 11:47 AM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
If you get into this hobby deep enough you'll have plenty of cultures to keep you busy.  I have a few (dozen) plates going at a time and making a clone takes less than one minute to transfer safely to a dish.  I am constantly germinating spores or transferring or cloning and I don't even give time a second thought.  I don't wait for shit.  I am pretty busy perfecting my contributions to this hobby due to my wide interest and progressiveness. 

It's pretty simple.  If you finish with one project, start another.  You can always sacrifice a couple happy hours for a much greater future gain.  Soon you won't ever feel anxious about when your spores are gonna germinate or if your clone to grain will contaminate. 
You'll have a bunch of baskets with a bunch of eggs.




Good points.  I like having a few jars going at all times at different stages.  A MS grow and 3-4 clones.  From the last MS grow, I did the clone water on 7-8 different fruits and it looks like 5 of them are going to grow out fine ... all in about 30 days from harvest to harvest.  I love the idea of using each harvest to start one new MS and 3-4 clone grows and just keep em small and the mystery of a new clone and MS grow each time and what will happen in more interesting to me now than having a killer LC culture that just keeps pumping out totally predictable results.  I've got nothing against Agar and use it sometimes in certain situations, but I really like the idea of going from grow to grow without it and without any LC or LI.  Just spore prints and clone water and the next grow is off and running.  I've got a killer way of taking prints now that has been contam free for over a year.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (01/05/17 11:56 AM)


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23984731 - 01/05/17 06:07 PM (7 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
I've got a killer way of taking prints now that has been contam free for over a year.




Beam me up scotty, I'm down for new methods for taking prints.  I've tried a few different methods and I'm still not sure which one I like the best....


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
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DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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