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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23928876 - 12/15/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
There will probably be a degree of genetic shift, impossible to say how much. I wouldn't try t push expansion like that more than 5 times as you are really burning up p values that way. Highly inefficient.




Got it .... Doubt I'd ever need to go more than 3 gen's anyway.  At some point you find a great culture then just LC it.  I kinda like the crapshoot of multi spore grows every once in awhile anyway.  Also, seems like they get more and more tuned to the system you're growing in .... the spores themselves adapt and seem to tune to the growing style.

Interesting facet of this is if a fruit grows out of a jar that  has mild bacterial infection, the clone water is most likely going to be free of it ....


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23928914 - 12/15/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Never underestimate the ability of contams to ride along. They might stay latent for a long time. That's why people stress agar over these seemingly easier methods of expansion. At least with a slanted master as backup, I can go back to clean and young culture if my working culture degrades or contams.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23929169 - 12/15/16 12:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Never underestimate the ability of contams to ride along. They might stay latent for a long time. That's why people stress agar over these seemingly easier methods of expansion. At least with a slanted master as backup, I can go back to clean and young culture if my working culture degrades or contams.




No doubt ... especially if you're an industrial level grower taking one jar of spawn to multiple bulk grows ... A lot of us don't need or even want that kind of grow operation.  5-10 jars at different stages keeps me happy.

Agar is an incredible commitment when you're testing out a few different isolates at a time ... Can easily get dozens of plates going.  I think what I'm going to do is use this process to identify the really aggressive pinners then use agar as the final step if I want to really clean it and save it.  In some ways, it's more interesting for me to just keep farming it with MS + Clone water


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23929187 - 12/15/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I must be clear, my advice is usually generalized to accommodate most size of grows. Fact is that while a simple hobbiest with a tiny grow might not care if they lose a project, my advice to them will always take the route that is most likely to produce a safe outcome, regardless of size or distance expanded.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23929223 - 12/15/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I must be clear, my advice is usually generalized to accommodate most size of grows. Fact is that while a simple hobbiest with a tiny grow might not care if they lose a project, my advice to them will always take the route that is most likely to produce a safe outcome, regardless of size or distance expanded.




Your advice is consistently solid, easy to follow and backed up with unimpeachable experience.  You've forgotten far more than I know.  To me, there's something really cool about the sheer unpredictability of just farming it ... MS, clones and see WTF happens.  It takes absolutely no effort at all to produce plenty of fruits for me and friends.  Hell I could do that just with MS and 3-4 jars.  What I really like about this clone water thing is the speed I anticipate from clone water to pins.... I've got a theory that could be totally complete bullshit but that the more generations you multispore from the exact same system, the better the results get because the fruits "learn" and adapt to the conditions and produce spores that can thrive in the repeating environment.  After having cycled maybe 10 generations now of the invitro jars, (cross between v-tek and Muda's bottles)  even my MS grows are very acceptable.  Whereas other MS strains I tried are pitiful in this system at best.  Probably why invitro is hard for many ... you really gotta find the right strain/isolate ... without that, I think there's just not enough FAE for a lot of strains that thrive with regular fruiting chambers.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (12/15/16 12:34 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23929234 - 12/15/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I never got the need for maximum speed. Most of the time I end up expanding more than I can use, masters sit forgotten and the fridge is full of plates that dry out before I get to them. If you start rolling with agar and do 3 - 4 p values of grain expansion you soon start trying to slow it all down.


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23929256 - 12/15/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I never got the need for maximum speed. Most of the time I end up expanding more than I can use, masters sit forgotten and the fridge is full of plates that dry out before I get to them. If you start rolling with agar and do 3 - 4 p values of grain expansion you soon start trying to slow it all down.




So, P, when you get a bunch of isolates on Agar going, you still  have to grow each one of them out to see if they're going to produce, right?  I've found, at least 75% of the time, a pin from a nice juicy cluster produces good ... maybe not optimal from an industrial production "every ounce counts" perspective, but from a "this jar is bursting with fruits" perspective, it's a pretty high odds bet.  I'm guessing it will be the same with clone water if it comes from the same fruit that was the cluster pin, but just a few days later.  Pins are always going to have some contamination on em, no way around that.  But clone water has the potential to be very clean especially if the fruits came from a very clean invitro situation.  There's just not a lot of mold or bacteria in those jars because they're not exposed to much open air the way bulk grows are.

BTW, appreciate the conversation ...


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23929519 - 12/15/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't isolate much, more of a clone guy myself. But when I find a clone that puts out 175-200% BE first flush on bulk at a 1:2 spawn ratio, with good potency, I want to keep it around.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23929537 - 12/15/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:takingnotes:


--------------------


*TRADE LIST* https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23855008 *TRADE LIST*




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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #23929794 - 12/15/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey man! Did you change your profile pic?
Did you have a pic with some animal in a mink fur or something?
Man i loved that picture, somehow it reminded me of Jennifer Lopez
i have no idea why.. Please put it back one day! (:


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Mateja]
    #23959363 - 12/26/16 09:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Any updates


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinetump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: cronicr]
    #23959637 - 12/27/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Any updates



Agreed updates about to try this to agar later today


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Offlinetump
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
    #23962552 - 12/28/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Screw it this made me just waste 5 fruit snd 5 clean syringes. The sub around it and fruit form the cluster turned into white trich today. Thats ten plates wasted too


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: tump]
    #23963326 - 12/28/16 05:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Any updates




Yes, here it is...

Clone Water Test #1 - Medium sized, tallish fruit 2-3 days from full sized
Day 1: Extracted 1.5ml clone water from inside fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS
Day 5: Quarter sized clean looking growth on small amount of RGS
Day 5: Shook the jar to accelerate colonization
Day 6: After shake, colonizing quickly ... no signs of contamination
Day 8: Fully Colonized, no contamination, did G2G transfer to 2 quart jars
Day 14: 2 Quart Jars fully colonized, no visible contamination ... Both jars ready for casing
Day 18: Cased Jars (Verm) looking ready to pin soon

Also, on day 10 when I opened the jars, I put a pinch of mycelium on Agar and it has grown out clean ... made some LI from it.

Clone Water Test #2 - Early Stage - Stubby Fat Fruit
Day 1: Extracted <1ml clone water from inside fat, stubby fruit with syringe - injected to small jar of RGS
Day 3: First signs of white specks appearing on RGS
Day 8: Fully Colonized ... Looking Good ... No visible contamination
Day 9: Transferred G2G to two jars

So far, with both clone water experiments, no contamination both are growing in clean.

4 Days ago, did another clone water spritz onto small grain jar and a good speck of white is developing.  Seems very easy to get clean clone water this way

Keys are to pick a fruit with a stubby, meaty base that's about half grown ... don't squirt more than 2-3ml's into the base... carefully suck the water back in to the syringe, take your time ... then quickly squirt clone water onto sterilized grain.  15 second procedure to get a cloned jar working ... no agar needed.  Looks like it's 3 for 3 in terms of no contams... still waiting to see how it fruits out, though.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (12/28/16 07:28 PM)


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Invisiblevan hattonFacebookDiscord
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23963380 - 12/28/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:takingnotes:


--------------------
If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. :cheers:

Tmethyl said:
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy.

Caps McGee said:
:thumbsup:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: van hatton]
    #23963392 - 12/28/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

pics, proof, whatever.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23963503 - 12/28/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
pics, proof, whatever.




I'll post pics after it pins.  What good are pics of colonized jars?  What does that prove?


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23963509 - 12/28/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You posted an update for every day, how hard is it to snap a pic once a day?  Not being a dick just being realistic.  Too many people offer these "groundbreaking teks" but never offer any proof or documentation of the process.  Just sayin.


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: Kenetic]
    #23963611 - 12/28/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kenetic said:
You posted an update for every day, how hard is it to snap a pic once a day?  Not being a dick just being realistic.  Too many people offer these "groundbreaking teks" but never offer any proof or documentation of the process.  Just sayin.




It didn't really occur to me that colonizing grain was all that interesting... Or proves anything, to be honest.  When it fruits, that's another story.

Not sure I'm presenting a "ground breaking tek," just doing an experiment that allows me to go directly to grain with cloning tissue with a low risk of contamination for small grows.  My theory is I can go from a mid-sized fruit > clone water to grain > colonized grain jar > Fruiting in about 3 weeks.  That's what I'm testing out.  We'll see.

This isn't an experiment to generate pounds and pounds of spawn for a bulk grow or anything like that.  It's just to see if you can, while harvesting some nice fruits, quickly start some new jars with a 15 second procedure that doesn't even require an SAB setup.  No LC needed ... no agar needed ... no slurry ... just a grain jar, a syringe and a nice meaty fruit ... self perpetuating system.  More importantly, I can quickly test out a lot of clones without any of the time consuming cleaning pins on agar step.  I could have 10 different clone jars near fruiting by the time I've gotten one dirty pin cleaned up and ready to inoculate a jar. 


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (12/28/16 07:31 PM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: Anyone Tried Cloning This Way??? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #23963687 - 12/28/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Cool deal, and good luck!

:popcorn:


--------------------
Todo Cambia
   

               
                                                :cookiemonster::elmo:



DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet


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