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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23914269 - 12/10/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

One minuscule exception to the rule (Dan Price) isn't demonstrable evidence proving your argument. :rofl2:

Either is a few veterans donating pocket change to Bernie in a multi-trillion dollar industry.  :facepalm:

Just stop, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you now.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 14 hours, 17 seconds
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 3
    #23915387 - 12/11/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

So where are the left wingers?  Are they in financial institutions?  NO.  Are they in military institutions? NO. Are they in business institutions?  NO.




lol....where do you come up with this shit? Climb out from under your rock.

and then have the nerve to say this:

Quote:

You're arrogant because you're too close minded to even recognize how limited your thinking is on most issues





You literally believe the 3 largest industries (probably) in the nation are wholly comprised of people who share your views, but have the nerve to lecture others on being close minded and arrogant.

You never used to be this bad. I think you drank a little too much partisan juice when Trump won, idk.




"people who share your views"

It has nothing to do with me and my views, but I can assure you they don't hold radical liberal views.

CEO's aren't the type of people that look out for other people and their well being, it's about the bottom line, but you know that already so why are you playing dumb on this issue?




Oh, so now its not just people on the left, its RADICAL LIBERALS.

If your opinions had any merit you wouldnt be constantly moving the goal posts.


--------------------

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 14 hours, 17 seconds
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 3
    #23915409 - 12/11/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Hell, the people in true power wouldn't even let Bernie have a chance to run against Trump, has that not taught you anything about where these liberals are in the most powerful nation in the world?




Has it taught you anything that Trump was allowed the biggest puppet position in the world?

Regardless, you STILL dont understand the difference between a neocon, or classical liberal, with a D next to their name, and an actual modern liberal/progressive.

Yes, Bernie was subject to bias because hes an actual liberal.

Yes, thats because those at the top of the DNC and related establishment are all crony capitalists. Bernie stated this ad nauseum.

Yes, the people who win the capitalist hunger games and become CEOs and media moguls and bankers and warmongers are typically the hungriest capitalists. What is your point here? We live in a heartless money driven society, therefore those at the top (who want deregulation, lower taxes, defense spending, and social program cuts) have the right answers? Are the most American? No. Theyre the most money driven and heartless.


We all constantly bitch about the direction this nation is heading, my side says conservatives, your side says liberals. But youve just pointed out that the people who rise to the top of this system we both despise are the ones who share your views.

What does that say about who's responsible for our problems?


--------------------

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23915517 - 12/11/16 08:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Another roaring succes from Bernie style socialism

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/12/10/congratulations-to-bolivarian-socialism-now-the-venezuelan-government-steals-the-childrens-toys/#503de2cb3aabThe

Quote:

Congratulations To Bolivarian Socialism - Now The Venezuelan Government Steals The Childrens' Toys




Quote:

Venezuela is an oil producer but it now imports crude oil from the US. A great place to grow sugar cane could not have Coca Cola because sugar was not available. And I've certainly never heard before of an economy so disastrously run that Big Macs were not available because no one could be found to bake the middle part of the bun. But all of those things have been brought to Venezuela by Bolivarian socialism.




:facepalm:


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23915635 - 12/11/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

qman said:
Hell, the people in true power wouldn't even let Bernie have a chance to run against Trump, has that not taught you anything about where these liberals are in the most powerful nation in the world?




Has it taught you anything that Trump was allowed the biggest puppet position in the world?

Regardless, you STILL dont understand the difference between a neocon, or classical liberal, with a D next to their name, and an actual modern liberal/progressive.

Yes, Bernie was subject to bias because hes an actual liberal.

Yes, thats because those at the top of the DNC and related establishment are all crony capitalists. Bernie stated this ad nauseum.

Yes, the people who win the capitalist hunger games and become CEOs and media moguls and bankers and warmongers are typically the hungriest capitalists. What is your point here? We live in a heartless money driven society, therefore those at the top (who want deregulation, lower taxes, defense spending, and social program cuts) have the right answers? Are the most American? No. Theyre the most money driven and heartless.


We all constantly bitch about the direction this nation is heading, my side says conservatives, your side says liberals. But youve just pointed out that the people who rise to the top of this system we both despise are the ones who share your views.

What does that say about who's responsible for our problems?




I'm trying to explain basic human nature, there's really no such thing as a true "liberal" in the real world, nobody takes from themselves to give to strangers, it rarely happens.

"the ones who share your views"

I don't share the views of crony capitalists, liberals like Fal SUPPORTED the bailouts, I didn't.

I don't share the views of the corporate globalists and their manipulated "free" trade deals, yet many liberals have been slamming Trump and the huge risks of stopping "free" trade.

I don't support the views of the top .01% elites and their views on legal and illegal immigration into the US workforce, I support the US worker and a tighter labor market.

I don't support the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years as we saw liberals supporting Hillary saying "America is already great".

Once again I ask, where are these real liberals you speak of, where in government and business do they reside?

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 1
    #23915651 - 12/11/16 09:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Everywhere.

You have a seriously warped view of the political demographics of this country.


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23915682 - 12/11/16 09:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Everywhere.





So where is their influence in the business and political world?  Or are they just in the classrooms and media bitching about everything.

Or maybe the reality of the situation is that these people are "liberals" in name only and when it comes to walking the walk, they bailout and look after number one. 

I know of these "liberals" that you speak of, they talk a real great game, but went it comes down to it that's all it is, mostly talk. :shrug:

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
Loc: 'Merica Flag
Last seen: 14 hours, 17 seconds
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23915699 - 12/11/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What influence do you expect a group who wants to reign in big business to have on the business community?


Look. You cant bitch about liberals ruining everything and then point out there are no liberals in high up influential places.

You also cant discount the corollary (that it must be conservatives in these positions instead) by claiming you dont support any of the bad stuff they do in the name of conservatism.


I'll ask again, what exactly is your point? Are there liberals in power, or not? Are the upper echelons of the oligarchy primed for conservative thinkers, or not?


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23915742 - 12/11/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
What influence do you expect a group who wants to reign in big business to have on the business community?


Look. You cant bitch about liberals ruining everything and then point out there are no liberals in high up influential places.

You also cant discount the corollary (that it must be conservatives in these positions instead) by claiming you dont support any of the bad stuff they do in the name of conservatism.


I'll ask again, what exactly is your point? Are there liberals in power, or not? Are the upper echelons of the oligarchy primed for conservative thinkers, or not?




My complaint about "liberals" is that the people that claim to support that ideology are hypocrites in 95% of the cases.

"Are there liberals in power, or not?"

No, because I don't believe there's anything as a true liberal. A true liberal wouldn't even seek to obtain power in the first place.

I'm sure a few in the original Communists Party's had the greatest of intentions, but once human nature takes over it always back to one thing, looking out for number one.

"claiming you don't support any of the bad stuff they do in the name of conservatism"

I'm not a conservative, therefore I don't have any motivations to support "conservative" ideology.  Pointing out the flaws and hypocrisy of "liberals" hardly makes one a conservative.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23915881 - 12/11/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So conservatives arent hypocrites about small government and abortion? Dont Tread On Me + patriot act?

Why cherrypick about things that exist in both liberal and conservative groups as a means to slander liberalism? Makes no sense.


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23915899 - 12/11/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So conservatives arent hypocrites about small government and abortion? Dont Tread On Me + patriot act?

Why cherrypick about things that exist in both liberal and conservative groups as a means to slander liberalism? Makes no sense.




Oh yes, the "conservative" movement in the US has turned into pure shit.  The war on drugs, immigration, crony capitalism and a military industrial complex that has zero concern for the average US citizen. Pure conservatives are sickened by this nonsense.

Trump had zero support from mainstream conservatives (Bush, Romney, McCain, Ryan, ect.), they despise nationalism and true conservatism.

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Registered: 05/14/15
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23916102 - 12/11/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
So conservatives arent hypocrites about small government and abortion? Dont Tread On Me + patriot act?






Conservatives aren't, republicans are

Too bad you're too ignorant to understand the difference


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23916963 - 12/11/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Trump had zero support from mainstream conservatives?

How the hell did he get elected president then? Liberals didnt support him...


--------------------

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23917020 - 12/11/16 05:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Trump had zero support from mainstream conservatives?

How the hell did he get elected president then? Liberals didnt support him...




He had no support from Republican politicians, still doesn't.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,646
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23917388 - 12/11/16 06:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

So.....what? Liberal politicians are indicative of liberals but conservative politicians arent indicative of conservatives? How fair.


--------------------

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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23918097 - 12/11/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Trump had zero support from mainstream conservatives?

How the hell did he get elected president then? Liberals didnt support him...




Some liberals have

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/08/why-some-liberals-have-started-to-love-donald-trump/?utm_term=.daf53087021f

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/29/a_liberal_case_for_donald_trump_the_lesser_of_two_evils_is_not_at_all_clear_in_2016/

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/wall-street-2016-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-213931

Making you look stupid is so fucking easy

No wonder you ignore me, at least everyone else will know :lol:


--------------------
http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23918429 - 12/12/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
So where are the left wingers?  Are they in financial institutions?  NO.  Are they in military institutions? NO. Are they in business institutions?  NO.  Why is that?  Because true liberalism does NOT function in the real world, it only  exists in the theoretical world at the university classroom.



Are you kidding?!?  That truly shows just how ridiculously out of touch with reality you are.  I work for a Fortune 500 in the Silicon Valley and I can tell you with absolute certainly that the vast majority of people in my company are left leaning, including the CxOs.  After all, they attended some of the top universities in the country which you yourself claim churn out a bunch of liberals.

It's been repeatedly pointed out to you that the most successful places in the country are liberal, and the most successful time in US history was during the FDR New Deal era.

Quote:

qman said:
CEO's aren't the type of people that look out for other people and their well being, it's about the bottom line, but you know that already so why are you playing dumb on this issue?



Many CEOs realize that the more money people have, the more product they can sell.

Quote:

qman said:
Just stop, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you now.



Sorry qman - wooof and ecstatic are killing you.


Quote:

qman said:
...liberals like Fal SUPPORTED the bailouts, I didn't.



Let's be clear about my position.  I only supported the bailouts to avoid a Great Depression.  If the choices are bad or worse, I'll take bad.  But that DOESN'T mean I support bad.

Quote:

qman said:
Once again I ask, where are these real liberals you speak of, where in government and business do they reside?



Do you mean like Warren Buffet?  Bill Gates?  Larry Page?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Look. You cant bitch about liberals ruining everything and then point out there are no liberals in high up influential places.



:cookiemonster:

Quote:

qman said:
I'm sure a few in the original Communists Party's had the greatest of intentions, but once human nature takes over it always back to one thing, looking out for number one.



You've just made one hell of a case against unregulated capitalism, which conservatives support far more than liberals do.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 1
    #23918527 - 12/12/16 03:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:

Oh yes, the "conservative" movement in the US has turned into pure shit.  The war on drugs, immigration, crony capitalism and a military industrial complex that has zero concern for the average US citizen. Pure conservatives are sickened by this nonsense.





true liberals are sickened by this nonsense!

...

nothing? you got nothing.

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Offlineqman
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Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23918868 - 12/12/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
So where are the left wingers?  Are they in financial institutions?  NO.  Are they in military institutions? NO. Are they in business institutions?  NO.  Why is that?  Because true liberalism does NOT function in the real world, it only  exists in the theoretical world at the university classroom.



Are you kidding?!?  That truly shows just how ridiculously out of touch with reality you are.  I work for a Fortune 500 in the Silicon Valley and I can tell you with absolute certainly that the vast majority of people in my company are left leaning, including the CxOs.  After all, they attended some of the top universities in the country which you yourself claim churn out a bunch of liberals.

It's been repeatedly pointed out to you that the most successful places in the country are liberal, and the most successful time in US history was during the FDR New Deal era.

Quote:

qman said:
CEO's aren't the type of people that look out for other people and their well being, it's about the bottom line, but you know that already so why are you playing dumb on this issue?



Many CEOs realize that the more money people have, the more product they can sell.

Quote:

qman said:
Just stop, I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you now.



Sorry qman - wooof and ecstatic are killing you.


Quote:

qman said:
...liberals like Fal SUPPORTED the bailouts, I didn't.



Let's be clear about my position.  I only supported the bailouts to avoid a Great Depression.  If the choices are bad or worse, I'll take bad.  But that DOESN'T mean I support bad.

Quote:

qman said:
Once again I ask, where are these real liberals you speak of, where in government and business do they reside?



Do you mean like Warren Buffet?  Bill Gates?  Larry Page?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Look. You cant bitch about liberals ruining everything and then point out there are no liberals in high up influential places.



:cookiemonster:

Quote:

qman said:
I'm sure a few in the original Communists Party's had the greatest of intentions, but once human nature takes over it always back to one thing, looking out for number one.



You've just made one hell of a case against unregulated capitalism, which conservatives support far more than liberals do.




"vast majority of people in my company are left leaning"

Liberals embracing cut throat capitalism, oh the hypocrisy. :rofl2:

"most successful places in the country are liberal:

Sure, after these places became successful people call themselves liberal, what else is new? 

"Many CEO's realize the more money people have, the more product they can sell"

Wow, do they really realize the law of supply and demand?  They just want OTHERS to pay their employees more to buy THEIR products because they pay their OWN employees the least amount they can get away with to maximize THEIR profits.

"Warren Buffet? Bill Gates?"

Once someone becomes a billionaire you have to become a liberal otherwise you come off as the biggest asshole in the world. I can guarantee you Buffet did NOT live his life as a true liberal.

"wooof and ecstatic are killing you"

No, flaming other members isn't killing them. :lol:

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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: qman] * 2
    #23918889 - 12/12/16 08:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Liberals embracing cut throat capitalism, oh the hypocrisy.




cut-throat capitalism? no.

Quote:

Sure, after these places became successful people call themselves liberal, what else is new?




that's some interesting spin. but no.

Quote:

Wow, do they really realize the law of supply and demand?  They just want OTHERS to pay their employees more to buy THEIR products because they pay their OWN employees the least amount they can get away with to maximize THEIR profits.




this sounds like retrogressive causation to me. are you saying that "they", by way of the law of supply and demand, just want others to pay their employees (another company's employees) more, so that that company can afford to buy more of "their" products? isn't that just a win-win scenario, that you are essentially implying any company would want to do anyways, due to the law of supply and demand?

Quote:

Once someone becomes a billionaire you have to become a liberal otherwise you come off as the biggest asshole in the world. I can guarantee you Buffet did NOT live his life as a true liberal.




yeah, it's called being realistic. no one is a "true" liberal, or a "true" conservative, because everyone falls somewhere along a spectrum. :fonda:

Quote:

No, flaming other members isn't killing them.




they aren't flaming you. they are rattling you.

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