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OfflineDrMushroom
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What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers
    #23914791 - 12/10/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Im going to give grain a try now (w cubes), plus i want to start growing oysters too.
I forgot which method im going to use but im just going to go with the safer method, which i think was just put the grain into coir with some calcium mixed in and growing that in trays. Not too fussed about yield, mostly im just wanting to keep all my strains current since i collected to many. The oysters though ill be growing properly.

Anywho, i was wondering what are the common/beginner mistakes people doing grains for the first time make? Asuming they can properly do pf-tek and are moving up.

Im going to be using rye seeds for my grains and im aware of how to pasteurize and that sterilization of bulk sub is bad.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23914839 - 12/10/16 10:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

using dirty inoculent.

pf tek is forgiving of bacteria.
grains are not


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: mushboy]
    #23914854 - 12/10/16 10:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Poor grain prep.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: mushboy]
    #23914860 - 12/10/16 11:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

IMO the first common mistake beginners make when they move to grains is not doing agar. Agar will allow you to get clean spawn.

PF substrate doesn't give a fuck if your spore solution happens to be dirty/bacterial, not so with grains.


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OfflineDrMushroom
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: Josex]
    #23914900 - 12/10/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

well i plan on mostly just using agar for that same reason, cant see hidden bacteria


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InvisibleIntelligentxfruit2
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23914963 - 12/10/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Not doing their research, trying to rush through the proper procedures, and fucking with things to much.
If you're new and just wanting to grow some mushrooms just follow the teks to the T, make a plan before you start and run through it a few times, and finally read a bit of trouble shooting advice before going in.
If you understand proper fruiting conditions, the colonization process, general contamination, and sterile technique you'll be fine.

Looking back though I wish I would have started with agar and grain. Brf cakes are great for people just looking to try this once or twice but if you're wanting to get into mycology dont even bother. For like 8 months I fooled around with spawning brf cakes by shredding them in coir/verm. I got decent results but not like grain, it was extra work for less reward.


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Invisibler.lutece
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: Intelligentxfruit2]
    #23915511 - 12/11/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think BRF cakes are a great starting point for someone who has never grown and needs to get the hang of taking care of mushrooms before they start trying to cultivate, but a good chunk of people either never move away from cakes, or they do what Intelligentxfruit2 mentioned and try to spawn them to bulk because they're "easier than grains."

The biggest mistake a lot of beginners make (including myself) is failing to listen to forum advice. A lot of us start out thinking we know better for some reason. We don't. :shrug: Also, I think a lot of people spend a lot of unnecessary time on the details (jar lid prep, "automated" fruiting chambers, etc.).


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But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.


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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: Intelligentxfruit2]
    #23915821 - 12/11/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Soak and boil times are all over the place. Soaking no more than 12 hours and bringing the water just to a boil has consistently given me RR's "perfect grain" results on rye and wheat, with maybe 1% exploded kernels, even without gypsum. Don't rush the drying before you autoclave the grains.


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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: AndyHinton]
    #23915832 - 12/11/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

not to derail but...

thats why i like wbs. it doesnt need or like a simmer/boil.

soak 24hr(gypsum/coffee whathaveyous). drain 15-20min. load slightly wet. PC 2hrs. shake jars while still warm**
5 steps. no timing or watching boiling water. not making pasta here.

**ive found the PC process clumps the seed up. shaking while hot breaks
up the grain and redistributes moisture which gets soaked up during cooling.


Edited by mushboy (12/11/16 10:11 AM)


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: mushboy]
    #23916038 - 12/11/16 11:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

AK1000s thread about his mistakes is worth a read op


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OfflineWeavieWonder
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: mrmazdarx9]
    #23916153 - 12/11/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Using a PC properly.  There are a lot of small, but important details that add up to make a successful batch of grains that won't cause problems for you later on.  Preheating, covering jar lids with foil, amount of water used in PC, maintaining pressure, adequate cook time, Having jars and bags above the water, using a trivet, not overloading bags, and not depressurizing the PC at the end of the cook cycle.  Not using the cheapest piece of junk you can find helps a lot too.


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OfflineHamHead
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: WeavieWonder]
    #23916175 - 12/11/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Not doing enough research/reading/learning of good, up to date information, before beggining the process.

I spent 6 months just reading about everything, and still do to this day, every day, on Shroomery, browsing these boards just trying to learn.

I wish I would have bought a larger PC and learned agar to start.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: HamHead]
    #23916226 - 12/11/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
Not doing enough research/reading/learning of good, up to date information, before beggining the process.

I spent 6 months just reading about everything, and still do to this day, every day, on Shroomery, browsing these boards just trying to learn.

I wish I would have bought a larger PC and learned agar to start.




Couldn't agree more. Lots of people (myself included), when they start researching, get so excited about growing that they'd delude themselves into thinking that they have read enough and know enough to start a grow, so they begin to invest in useless equipment that won't do shit for them in the future.

Again, patience is key in this hobby even when you haven't grown a thing yet and are only gathering information. Read til your eyes bleed and then some more, until your brain starts to connect the dots and you have a clear picture of the equipment you need and the different methods/techniques to grow.

If I could go back in time, the very first thing I'd have bought would have been a large PC. IMO, prioritizing your purchases is of the utmost importance.


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OfflineKalsticky
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: mushboy]
    #23916373 - 12/11/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
not to derail but...

thats why i like wbs. it doesnt need or like a simmer/boil.

soak 24hr(gypsum/coffee whathaveyous). drain 15-20min. load slightly wet. PC 2hrs. shake jars while still warm**
5 steps. no timing or watching boiling water. not making pasta here.

**ive found the PC process clumps the seed up. shaking while hot breaks
up the grain and redistributes moisture which gets soaked up during cooling.



Exactly^^^^wbs is my shit. I do everything like you said except i no longer open my pc when hot and shake the jars. There is 0 need, it just caused my grains to burst because of changing pressure. Now i let the pc sit all night then right before knocking up i shake just to keep my mind at ease lol but nubies always cut corners on supplies, being sterile, everything about mushroom cultivation. If youre not even gonna try, youll never succeed at growing these beautiful fruits.


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Offlinewtfcrazymofo
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23916442 - 12/11/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Not building proper lids is a common mistake.  I silicone a piece of a sfd to the top of a jar lid covering a 1/4" hole.  SFd's are great this way because I don't need to cover with foil during the pc run.  I use eats oat prep method #1 Basically just boil water, take off stove, add oats, wait 30 minutes, strain, load jars, and pc @15 for 2 hours.


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If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big)
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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
    #23916597 - 12/11/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Soak grains according to RR'S method, 20 to 24 hours with half strength coffee water, boil 15 min, steam dry...MAKE SURE THE GRAINS ARE DRY! Then PC for 2 hours at 15 PSI.

Use the proper filter on your lids, and have good sterile technique...you will be good!


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Edited by Peteyboy (12/11/16 03:01 PM)


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Offlinebifbaf
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: DrMushroom]
    #23924445 - 12/13/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

In the beginning I had trouble getting rye dialed in to the right moisture level. It's true that that variety of different soak/boil times made it confusing. I found bird seed was easier to get right.


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Invisiblefreespeech
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: bifbaf]
    #23924536 - 12/13/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'll second the comments about properly drying the wet grain before loading into jars. I do RR's rye tek, and if I follow his instructions exactly, I find that my rye stays too wet. When I was first getting started with grains, I had problems because my rye was too wet.

Now I do a little addition to RR's tek - after water stops draining from the colander, I dump the steaming rye directly onto my counter and spread it out so that it's all in a thin-ish layer. Let that sit for anywhere from 20 minutes to a couple hours and then load. If I'm in a hurry, I can point a fan at the grain and occasionally stir the pile.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: What are the common/beginner mistakes for grain novice growers [Re: freespeech]
    #23925401 - 12/14/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

freespeech said:
I'll second the comments about properly drying the wet grain before loading into jars. I do RR's rye tek, and if I follow his instructions exactly, I find that my rye stays too wet. When I was first getting started with grains, I had problems because my rye was too wet.

Now I do a little addition to RR's tek - after water stops draining from the colander, I dump the steaming rye directly onto my counter and spread it out so that it's all in a thin-ish layer. Let that sit for anywhere from 20 minutes to a couple hours and then load. If I'm in a hurry, I can point a fan at the grain and occasionally stir the pile.




This is key! If I'm in a rush I use cookie sheets for the same effect...if I'm not in a rush I'll toss as usual umtil steam stops then ill just leave the rye in the colander overnight with a moist paper towel laid over them...pick back up in the mornin...I prefer doing it that way


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