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 Arcanum
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Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 871
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 Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) 
#23914290 - 12/10/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hello everyone!
It's been several years since my last grow, but I had the itch a few months ago and decided to grow myself a few cubes. Hooray! Since my last time, I have gained a wealth of experience with microcontrollers (Arduino, Raspberry Pis, that sort of thing) so I thought it'd be fun to build an automated/low maintenance grow system.
THIS ISN'T NECESSARY OR ADVISED. I'M DOING THIS FOR FUN, LEARNING EXPERIENCE, AND TO EXPERIMENT. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, FUCK OFF.
I had to wait longer than I was expecting on components to arrive at my door so the whole thing probably won't be completed by the time this grow is ready to fruit (I just spawned last night!), but I have been working with the constituent parts and figuring everything out. I'll probably do a write up on the whole thing when I am ready, but I stumbled on a relatively novel method of monitoring CO2 concentration that I don't believe has been used before in the hobby mycology community so I wanted to detail it specifically.
So... dedicated CO2 meters typically run over at least $100 and the extent of their automation system integration is usually just a max/min switch. That's not nearly good enough for me. Beyond that, sensor modules specifically sensitive to CO2 are available and aren't necessarily expensive, but relative to most sensors, they are far from cheap. The MH-Z19 is probably the most affordable and easily interfaceable of these options but still costs around $20 (other CO2 sensors cost $30+). We can do better than that.
Enter the MQ135 (datasheet is here). It is an electrochemical "air quality" sensor that is sensitive to a number of substances, including (but not limited to) ammonia, benzene, alcohol, carbon monoxide, and carbon dioxide. Luckily for us, we can reasonably assume that concentrations of the substances it can sense, other than CO2, aren't really going to fluctuate much (and if they do, we probably don't want to expose our shrooms to that stuff anyway) so we can effectively use these as CO2 sensors. The best part... MQ135s cost around $1.50 - $6, depending on where you buy them. To interface with them, the only other necessary component is an Arduino (you can get perfectly functional Chinese clones for as little as $3) or any other microcontroller with an analog input.
With a clever bit of math (detailed here by a guy named Davide Gironi. There is another Arduino library someone wrote to implement this here, which is the one I am using), we can calibrate the module to approximate CO2 concentration. Now, while it theoretically is possible to get a fairly accurate ppm value, since these things work electrochemically, they can be very finicky and calibrating them is difficult to guarantee. First of all, new modules have to be "burned-in" for 24-48 hours before using. Second, the sensor has to be pre-heated every time it is powered up. The module will take care of this itself and in automation system, it probably would always be on anyway, but nevertheless, the reading will be off until it's adequately warmed up. Lastly, as I said, ensuring a good calibration is somewhat tricky... it has to be done outside and preferably at 70 degrees F and as little wind as possible. These conditions are difficult to find in December.
Fortunately, for the purpose of automating FAE, we don't actually need a dead accurate CO2 ppm value. We just need the value to scale with increasing CO2 concentrations... which it does quite well. To deal with inaccurate calibration and possible shifts of the sensor sensitivity, we can employ some tricks in order to know when to trigger and stop the FAE process (accomplished via fans and simultaneous humidification to avoid RH drops).
For testing purposes, I have a 6,400 cubic cm Sterlite container with a 60mm hole at the top (CO2 sinks, I know, but this is just a test) for a 60cm PC fan in a "pull" configuration (it's sucks the air out) with the lid slightly open for air intake and electrostatic air filters over both the intake and outtake (to keep dust and larger particulate out and help keep humidity in). With the current calibration, I get 550-620 ppm of CO2 inside the container. True "fresh air" would be around 400 ppm (thanks climate change!), but unless we feed in air from outside or pump in oxygen, we're never going to actually reach that indoors.
Using a drinking straw, with one full lung full of breath blown into the container, the ppm reaches 1300-2000 before beginning to slowly fall back down. Turning on the fan, the value begins to plunge for about 50 seconds or so before it seems to level off at about 700-800 ppm. With the fan still on, it doesn't always seem to actually reach the base point, but interestingly, when the fan is stopped, the value will continue to fall further to the original level. I can only guess that this is because the increased air flow from the fan is actually causing more molecules of CO2 to hit the sensor in the period of time that the measurement takes place.
Sometimes, the value will drop to below 400... which most definitely means that either the calibration was wrong in the first place or the sensor sensitivity is fluctuating. It's pretty safe to assume incorrect calibration but it's basically impossible to say for sure without an actual calibrated CO2 meter to check against. At the moment, mine has been calibrated inside at roughly 75 degrees. I've tried to calibrate outside (weather has been around 60 degrees F and breezy), but whenever I bring it back inside, the value will quickly climb to 1500+, even with an open window 3 feet away (I wouldn't expect more than 1000). Temperature and wind are probably factoring in to this error (at least I hope it's an error  ).
There are ways we can deal with this uncertainty. We only really need to monitor the changes. If the value goes over 1000 or so or increasing by a certain amount, we can assume we want FAE. As long as we can keep humidity up (I will be using an ultrasonic atomizer device), it's not going to hurt to mix in some more fresh air, even if we don't necessarily need it. Also, as shown in my tests, while flushing in fresh air, there's always a point where the value levels off and stops dropping. We can assume then that the inner CO2 has reached equilibrium with the air in the room (even if it's not technically "fresh air," we can't do any better anyway without sourcing air from outside) and we'll know it's time to stop. To deal with possible wandering sensor sensitivity, I can use a 2nd MQ135 for redundancy. If the value from both of them goes up and down proportionally at the same time, we know there's an actual change of CO2 concentration. If one changes significantly and the other doesn't, it's not a real fluctuation. I have a 2nd MQ135 to do this, but it needs to be burned in.
In the next few days, I am going to run a few more tests at full scale (the 47 liter tub I will be fruiting in) and while maintaining humidity, and if all goes well, I will work to integrate everything, maybe in time to fruit. For what it's worth, I have plans and parts to control temperature but the room in which I grow is always in an ideal fruiting temperature so I won't be focusing on that. I'll be sure to update this for those who are interested.
Let me know what you think. 
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Edited by Arcanum (12/11/16 05:49 PM)
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 cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914334 - 12/10/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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   It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Munchauzen
Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,344
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23914601 - 12/10/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not sure whats wrong with a plastic tote with holes in it. What you call "automation" sounds like a fuckload of work.
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Arcanum
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Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Munchauzen]
#23914727 - 12/10/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said:
I'm not sure whats wrong with a plastic tote with holes in it. What you call "automation" sounds like a fuckload of work.
First of all, this is primarily for fun, experimentation, and the learning experience...
Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter) or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE. Many people still manually fan their tubs for FAE. Also, for the sake of experimenting with methods to get improved or consistent yields, it's crucial to constrain as many variables as possible. For instance, for people that are trying to isolate super-strains, it is useful to be able to eliminate variable environmental factors from the equation.
Thirdly, automation implies doing work once and then being able to leave it to run on it's own without having to check on it every day. For someone like me who is often out of town for days at a time, this is useful. It's not even that much work. With a couple more hours of programming and $2 Wifi module, I could even send data to a server and monitor and/or control growing conditions from anywhere with an internet connection.
Is it necessarily? No. Is it useful? Yes. Is it bad ass? I think so.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914751 - 12/10/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Or you could just do monotubs, which are automated by default, and require no monitoring whatsoever once dialed in properly.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
 *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Josex
#cheat_code
Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,996
Loc: 
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914778 - 12/10/16 10:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Quote:
Munchauzen said:
I'm not sure whats wrong with a plastic tote with holes in it. What you call "automation" sounds like a fuckload of work.
First of all, this is primarily for fun, experimentation, and the learning experience...
Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter) or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE. Many people still manually fan their tubs for FAE. Also, for the sake of experimenting with methods to get improved or consistent yields, it's crucial to constrain as many variables as possible. For instance, for people that are trying to isolate super-strains, it is useful to be able to eliminate variable environmental factors from the equation.
Thirdly, automation implies doing work once and then being able to leave it to run on it's own without having to check on it every day. For someone like me who is often out of town for days at a time, this is useful. It's not even that much work. With a couple more hours of programming and $2 Wifi module, I could even send data to a server and monitor and/or control growing conditions from anywhere with an internet connection.
Is it necessarily? No. Is it useful? Yes. Is it bad ass? I think so.
 
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mushboy 
modboy
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914812 - 12/10/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Many people still manually fan their tubs for FAE.
really? anyone who says they fan for fae has no grasp on what fae is. and most
likely will explain why said persons grows are shitty and the concept of an
'automated' chamber sounds appealing.
sorry but a simple proven way to grow is better then unproven over complicated one.
focus on your spawn. not a fancy FC.
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!
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Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914902 - 12/10/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
really? anyone who says they fan for fae has no grasp on what fae is. and most
likely will explain why said persons grows are shitty and the concept of an
'automated' chamber sounds appealing.
RR seems to disagree:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Fanning is when you take the lid of the tote and wave it back and forth over the terrarium to blow out the stale air and replace it with fresh. Fan for fifteen seconds or so each time. I'd suggest drilling a hundred or more 1/4" holes into all six sides of the terrarium, elevate it an inch or two off the shelf, and then fan a couple of times per day also.
Again...
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
If it's a shotgun terrarium, you don't 'have' to fan at all. However, for best results fan and mist whenever you think of it. Several times per day is great.
RR
Once more, since apparently no one bothered to read my last post:
Quote:
Arcanum said:
First of all, this is primarily for fun, experimentation, and the learning experience...
Heaven forbid someone decides to try something different and want to share. Clearly, I shouldn't have bothered.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914932 - 12/10/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yet he never once say fan for fae or anything about co2... because a fruiting sub doesnt put much off its stale air ypu need to worry about not co2.
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Arcanum
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23914970 - 12/10/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Is it necessarily? No. Is it useful? Yes. Is it bad ass? I think so.
The next time you use a $2 module to measure atmospheric concentrations of a gas typically requiring a sensor 10-50 times the cost in order to programmatically control the micro-climate inside of a container, let me know and I'll be more than happy to bow down to your expertise.
Quote:
cronicr said:
Yet he never once say fan for fae or anything about co2... because a fruiting sub doesnt put much off its stale air ypu need to worry about not co2.
Here you go:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Thanks bro, you are right, they don't seem to understand that a FC is not an analog to a PLANET!
Seems like it goes without saying, but they just like to call you wrong so much they often don't stop to make sure you actually are wrong.
In a near stale air environment like a FC between fanning, yes, the CO2 will settle on the bottom, and if you release O2 from below, it will rise up and replace the CO2 as it drains away.
You would be well advised to take a basic science course prior to calling other people wrong. I've posted many times on this subject to try to help clear the misunderstandings and down right ignorant shit I've seen posted here, but little can rival this.
Do you have a CO2 sensor? I do. Do you have an O2 sensor? I do. Do you have a meter that can read ppm of particulate in the air? I do.
More BS
Quote:
What you guys and RR especially seem to neglect in your thought process is that the Earth has huge massive air currents to keep everything balanced out. Convection is constantly churning the air around us, pretty much evenly distributing the CO2 that occurs in the atmosphere all around.
CO2 IS heavier than air, and without any kind of air current to keep it from sinking, it will. An FC is generally a fairly still-air environment, meaning the CO2 is dispersed very little thoughout the air inside the chamber. I'm sure if you had some kind of gas composite analyzer to take a sample of the air lower in the FC, it would more than likely read at least marginally higher levels of CO2 near the bottom.
Here's a news flash. The fruiting chamber I designed has holes in all six sides. This results in convection and circulation. It is NOT a still air environment! The mushroom substrates produce heat, and also the lighting that shines through the fruiting chamber produces heat. These two produce convection. Perhaps if you'd read posts before jumping into shit you know nothing of, you'd have seen that. Sorry, but this pisses me off. Don't attack my work because you don't understand the science behind it.
Now, in a so-called 'shotgun' fruiting chamber with holes on all six sides, would you suppose the CO2 drains out the bottom? It doesn't. It mixes with the air. I see absolutely NO change in CO2 concentration from the top to the bottom of the fruiting chamber. CO2 levels are higher than ambient in the room, but lower than they would be in a 'still air' terrarium, as if anyone who has knowledge of the life cycle of fungi would ever make such a thing.
Do your homework before trashing others work please.
RR
And then...
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
CO2 will build up in a terrarium, whether or not holes are drilled into all six sides. The levels will be lower than they would be without holes drilled and/or fanning regularly, but will still be above normal ambient.
With oyster mushrooms and lion's mane to name two species that are very CO2 intolerant, you need to fan a few times per day, even when using my terrarium design.
The point above, is that even with 100 holes in the floor of the fruiting chamber/terrarium, CO2 levels will still be elevated. The holes help, but don't make for maintenance free fruiting. In other words, gravity won't 'drain' the CO2. I hope this clears up any lingering confusion.
In addition, CO2 is not the only reason we provide air exchange. The other important reason is that contaminants prefer stale air, while mushroom mycelium prefers fresh, moving air. Good luck to all.
RR
Finally...
Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Of course, mushrooms produce co2 as well, indisputably, what I mean by works though is whether this translates into an increase in relative co2 concentrations or if it gets dispersed too quickly, even with airflow control, is up for debate it would seem.
How is it up for debate? If I failed to vent my colonization room, it would shoot above 5000 ppm within a few hours.
I used CO2 supplementation from my mushroom substrates for a cropping cycle or two before they were spent. I maintained 700 to 800 ppm by controlling exhaust fan speed. If the CO2 started getting too high, I'd just speed up the fan.
The problem is they also produce CO2 at night when your plants are also outgassing CO2, leading to CO2 saturated soil and roots, which causes wild pH swings and other issues.
I no longer use any form of CO2 supplementation. In a legal market, buds are sold by weight, but priced higher for potency. Anything which makes the flower grow larger without also increasing the number of stem cells devoted to forming glandular trichomes is counterproductive.
RR
Forgive me if I trust him more than you.
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Edited by Arcanum (12/10/16 11:49 PM)
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Josex
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23914994 - 12/10/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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No need to read your walls of text... You're overcomplicating stuff, that feels unshroomy mang and shrooms like it simple. Fucking the follow tek, succeed and then see if you need to do all that bullshit
This quote though 
Quote:
Srirachi said:
When people quote RR nonstop, it is usually a sign that they have zero actual experience.
I don't say this as any sort of comment on RR's knowledge or contributions, but rather I compare their thought patterns to those of cave people in sci fi movies, who build a religion around some completely misconstrued artifact from a more advanced culture.
Their endless copy-paste posts make me grin, as I imagine them emerging from their cave into their certain destruction, all the while holding up the laserdisc from the Voyager probe above their heads as if it makes them invincible, completely unaware that they are about to be squished.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Josex]
#23915009 - 12/11/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya really just proved my point lol..
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!
Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Josex]
#23915065 - 12/11/16 12:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said:
No need to read your walls of text... You're overcomplicating stuff, that feels unshroomy mang and shrooms like it simple. Fucking the follow tek, succeed and then see if you need to do all that bullshit
Oh no! I made you read too much! I'm so sorry! 
It'd be a lot simpler for me to just buy shrooms, but that wouldn't be fun at all would it? Not once did I ever say this is how it should be done, not once did I say this was necessary, not once did I say it'd be easier, not once did I say it would be cheaper than orthodox teks. I detailed a way to approximate CO2 concentration without a $200 CO2 meter in a way that would allow automation and monitoring and asserted that it could be useful. I want build an automated system for my fruiting chamber, as several people have already done, because I can and because I enjoy doing such things. I'm not even looking for shit tons of shrooms anyway. Why is that a problem? Why do you even care how I grow my shrooms? That's "unshroomy," as far as I'm concerned. Just because it seems over-complicated to you, doesn't mean it does to me.
Quote:
Josex said:
This quote though
Quote:
Srirachi said:
When people quote RR nonstop, it is usually a sign that they have zero actual experience.
I don't say this as any sort of comment on RR's knowledge or contributions, but rather I compare their thought patterns to those of cave people in sci fi movies, who build a religion around some completely misconstrued artifact from a more advanced culture.
Their endless copy-paste posts make me grin, as I imagine them emerging from their cave into their certain destruction, all the while holding up the laserdisc from the Voyager probe above their heads as if it makes them invincible, completely unaware that they are about to be squished.
RR knows more about mycology than both you and me put together. He has a CO2 meter and has used it, whereas I'm assuming you don't. His expertise supersedes yours in this context. Religions are based on myths and dogma. RR and his knowledge are real and very much well founded. Therefore, the metaphor in that quote is absurd. I refer to an expert in the field because I'm not an arrogant fool who thinks I know more than someone with significantly more experience.
Quote:
cronicr said:
Ya really just proved my point lol..
How? I don't even know what your point is, and I really don't think you understand what my point is either.
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Edited by Arcanum (12/11/16 12:42 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,842
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr] 1
#23915069 - 12/11/16 12:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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What I think everyone is missing is that for the OP it's not about growing mushrooms.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23915073 - 12/11/16 12:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Also not to beat on RR because he was a pioneer, but he hasn't grown cubes in 30 years, never ran a monotub, and bases most of his advice on edibles. It's not the same game.
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Mad Season
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23915170 - 12/11/16 02:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Quote:
Munchauzen said:
I'm not sure whats wrong with a plastic tote with holes in it. What you call "automation" sounds like a fuckload of work.
First of all, this is primarily for fun, experimentation, and the learning experience...
So if this is all it is, I really wouldn't give a fuck. But then you went on..
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter)
False. You know it's had enough FAE when the mushrooms show a good reaction to the FAE. Mushrooms tell you everything good or bad.
Quote:
Arcanum said:
or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE. Many people still manually fan their tubs for FAE.
Or you could just loosen your monotub holes, like the teks say for getting more FAE. Also I know of absolutely zero growers these days who fan for FAE.. You need to fan every 15 minutes for it to be considered proper FAE.
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Also, for the sake of experimenting with methods to get improved or consistent yields, it's crucial to constrain as many variables as possible. For instance, for people that are trying to isolate super-strains, it is useful to be able to eliminate variable environmental factors from the equation.
You can do this by growing mushrooms, and learning their respective reactions. Then fixing the situation based off the reaction. Not make a fruiting chamber filled with technology you have no idea will work before understanding the mushrooms reactions telling you how/if your chamber works.
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Thirdly, automation implies doing work once and then being able to leave it to run on it's own without having to check on it every day. For someone like me who is often out of town for days at a time, this is useful. It's not even that much work. With a couple more hours of programming and $2 Wifi module, I could even send data to a server and monitor and/or control growing conditions from anywhere with an internet connection.
I leave monos for days/weeks sometimes. They're literally the most automated shit ever... To me you're doing what everyone else is saying. So much extra work for something that has been proven time and time again.
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Is it necessarily? No. Is it useful? Yes. Is it bad ass? I think so.
Is it more useful for you than just learning all the mushrooms reactions by following the teks? Some of the most useful shit I've learned has been from a typical mono grow.
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 02:13 AM)
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23915189 - 12/11/16 02:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Also not to beat on RR because he was a pioneer, but he hasn't grown cubes in 30 years, never ran a monotub, and bases most of his advice on edibles. It's not the same game.
Exactly..he did lots of shit before understanding what he does now...thats just the way it goes..if you wanna measire something measure the incom8ng fresh air not the co2
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23915225 - 12/11/16 04:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm with pasty on this.
OP isn't trying to make converts or breaking into SGFC/mono threads insisting that co2 monitoring is necessary. he's just making observations on his idea and sharing it (in his own thread BTW)….so what?
edit: to be fair, there have been WAY more crazy ideas with WAY less (seemingly) sane posters….i don't think this one is bat-shit crazy like many we have seen before
its low cost, thats awesome. looks like the sensor might not be 100% reliable though….i would be interested to see if it holds.
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A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
Edited by blindingleaf (12/11/16 04:07 AM)
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enlightenment
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: blindingleaf]
#23915295 - 12/11/16 06:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Word.
I don't understand all the hate..
It could be interesting/useful for my edible grows.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: enlightenment]
#23915306 - 12/11/16 06:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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there are definitely threads where its warranted, but i dunno, i don't think this is one of them.
if it was:
"hey, you should automate your mono with this cheap thing I made and used one time"
then i'd say fuck that.
--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: blindingleaf]
#23915345 - 12/11/16 06:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dont see any hate here, all I see is a confused OP misreading RR quotes and thinking since RR says to fan a sgfc that means we all fan monotubs for FAE, which we all know isnt true.
the best way to know if your air is stale in a tub is to look at the mushrooms, not the reading of some co2 meter.
the meter doesnt tell you what your culture wants, the mushrooms does.
If you want more FAE in a tub, loosen the poly. a monotub is automated so no need to do unnecessary work that probably only will screw things up for you 
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PussyFart
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23915351 - 12/11/16 07:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter) or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE.
Quote:
Arcanum said:
I'm not even looking for shit tons of shrooms anyway. Why is that a problem?
First you insinuate that one of the reasons you are doing this is for better yield, and then you negate it by saying you are not looking for a better yield.....? 
Secondly YOU CAN tell if they are getting enough FAE simply by looking at the fruits and the substrate and reading what it wants/needs, which comes with experience. No need for a co2 meter of any kind.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Mad Season
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: PussyFart]
#23915625 - 12/11/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yep what space and PF said.
If this was just for fun then by all means go for it op! But you made it sound like this is the only way of figuring out what mushrooms want, when in reality all you need to do is learn every reaction they put off and accommodate to it.
Keep in mind, the reason people are saying that OP should do tubs, isn't because they hate him.. they don't want him to waste his time and money for something that isn't needed, at all.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Mad Season] 2
#23915658 - 12/11/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Honestly the number 1 problem with all these threads is the presentation. If the OP was shortened to: "hey guys I'm gonna try to rig up an automated grow room. I know I could just do a tub and it would be easier, but I want to feel the challenge of dialing in a real automated setup." Bam. No more problems.
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mushboy
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte] 1
#23915713 - 12/11/16 09:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Let me know what you think.
we did. and got a
i looked up the calibration of the mq135 and its ridiculously fussy.
OP- correct me if wrong but if the power goes out or something you have
to re-calibrate the sensor? so the system is off while this happens? how long
does this take?
considering power could be out for awhile the automation aspect falls apart
and since its limited to its setup, the mushrooms are shut in a box with no
FAE happening.
that sucks.
solution would be to have a passive system that doesnt require extra technology.
to quote Montgomery Scott in 'the search for spock'
'The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.'
Edited by mushboy (12/11/16 10:37 AM)
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23915719 - 12/11/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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maybe if he dropped statements like "many people fan for FAE" and then misuse rr quotes to prove they do when told otherwise I'd agree.
it just seems to me many people think its not automated if its a passive system, that somehow using computer controllers hooked up to fans and stuff will make their grows better or somehow automated in "the right way"
seems people put more effort into thinking about what they themselves want, and not so much what the mushrooms want.
the quote " it would be badass" suggests to me he wanna show off some space station going blip blop with lights and sounds and call it megasystem 3000,
it gets kinda frustrating for both parts probably when we're trying to explain it would only be counterproductive.
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Mad Season
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: spacechildo]
#23915758 - 12/11/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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What's funny af is the RR quotes just proved cronicrs point. RR is measuring co2, but he himself states that stale air is what contaminations thrive off of, not just co2. He uses something that measures all PPMs. Stale air doesn't need to be saturated with co2 for it to be considered stale. It gets stale by getting saturated with other things like exotoxins or ammonia and sulfides.
And none of those quotes once said "we fan for FAE." So... 
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 10:17 AM)
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bodhisatta
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Mad Season]
#23915873 - 12/11/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
For testing purposes, I have a 6,400 cubic cm Sterlite container with a 60mm hole at the top (CO2 sinks, I know, but this is just a test)
CO2 doesn't sink. It's infinitely miscable it mixes with air nearly immediately and forms a homogeneous air mixture
Co2 will settle out sightly in huge sealed containers.
Even in the beer industry there's the misconception that co2 blankets
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r.lutece
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23915886 - 12/11/16 10:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's a question: I remember doing an experiment in grade school where you mix baking soda and vinegar in a jar to make CO2. Without spilling the liquid, you tip the jar over an open flame and, the way it's explained in class, the CO2 spills out, sinks, and extinguishes the flame. What is is that causes the CO2 to sink in this case? Or is there another gas at work extinguishing the flame?
Most of my other experience with it is refrigerated liquid CO2 used in large fog machines, so it's a topic I understand little about as it pertains to atmospheric CO2.
--------------------
One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: r.lutece]
#23915927 - 12/11/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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you're making a ton more co2 than a fruiting substrate ever would in a life time in just a matter of seconds there. not the same situation at all.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack
Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: r.lutece]
#23915940 - 12/11/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That is concentrated co2 (probably 90+% co2 produced in an instant) far beyond anything you'd see in either a sealed room or the atmosphere, what you dont see is lots of particles dissipating into the air around it. The majority of it will go to the bottom, but in no time at all it will get mixed into the atmosphere again.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: r.lutece]
#23915941 - 12/11/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
r.lutece said:
Here's a question: I remember doing an experiment in grade school where you mix baking soda and vinegar in a jar to make CO2. Without spilling the liquid, you tip the jar over an open flame and, the way it's explained in class, the CO2 spills out, sinks, and extinguishes the flame. What is is that causes the CO2 to sink in this case? Or is there another gas at work extinguishing the flame?
Most of my other experience with it is refrigerated liquid CO2 used in large fog machines, so it's a topic I understand little about as it pertains to atmospheric CO2.
concentration gradient
the diffusion starts from the aperture of the bottle which is near the flame. it could be explained as pouring but really it's diffusion and the concentration gradient as it diffuses quickly away from the bottle
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23915946 - 12/11/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like the difference between drinking a glass of water and waterboarding. . .
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Moabfighter
Tam Fighter
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Posts: 2,710
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23915958 - 12/11/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't know why dudes getting shit on. He's clearly putting a decent amount of work for his own personal pleasure and is sharing it with the board
I am curious to see what comes of it just for some more knowledge.
Keep it up OP
--------------------
KSSS And PE WBS.
  
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23915960 - 12/11/16 10:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Like the difference between drinking a glass of water and waterboarding. . .
--------------------
One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail.
But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Moabfighter] 1
#23915967 - 12/11/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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can you show me where he's being shit on in your opinion? I just dont see it
we've all shot down his implications that we fan for fae..but other than that I simply dont see what you and a couple others here are pointing at.. care to help me understand? a quote or link to post would be real helpful!
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mushboy
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Moabfighter] 1
#23915982 - 12/11/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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op got shat on because hes trying to replace fanning for automated FAE.
the problem is fanning doesnt provide fae. his point is invalid. user error.
file not found. bad command line. ect..
automated grow chambers sound cool if you want it. but to myself the whole
process of watching and reacting to what the mushrooms are telling me is the
essence of why i grow the mushroom in the first place. besides the drugs effect.
and no one flammed or trolled OP. i just said fanning isnt fae
and got the  treatment
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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: spacechildo]
#23915988 - 12/11/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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IMO people are trying to help him... correct me if I'm wrong. He seems to not have much experience, and they're trying to help him learn to walk (interpret mushroom/mycelial reactions) before he runs (makes a chamber with gizmos up the ass that accommodates to those reactions)
Is a person who needs more experience really the kinda person who should attempt this? If this was azur, pasty, cron, etc I wouldn't be saying anything but  just saying..
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushboy]
#23915997 - 12/11/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
op got shat on
(..)
and no one flammed or trolled OP.
I dont see any flaming or shitting on myself thats why I wanted to know what moab was seeing that I'm clearly not seeing.
I saw OP got a bit hissy when we told him the RR quotes doesnt say what he think they does, but nothing worth mentioning really..
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Mad Season]
#23916000 - 12/11/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge
COCA GROWERS UNITE
 Click here for UK trades
need some supplies in the UK check Here or PM me
UK OTD uk members chat
UK supplies and trade OTD place to chat shit
Right Here
If you use "SWIM" you should DROWN
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mushboy
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: spacechildo]
#23916005 - 12/11/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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i should of used the quote box for moab on that one.
oh well.
anywho lets help OP get a canopy of wall to wall mushrooms in a monotub.
then discuss if automation is necessary.
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mushhiehunter
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushboy]
#23916018 - 12/11/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmm this thread got me thinking... Has anyone ever created a fully automated system using a monotub? (I know that tuned monotub is pretty much on auto-pilot) but I would like to see someone using arduino with sensors to show all the sweet data that would come out of the system. It certainly would be an amazing source for learning...
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushhiehunter]
#23916030 - 12/11/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The problem is that the configuration of a monotub doesn't lend itself to automation. The horizontal shape easily leads to oversaturation if you supply extra humidity (the sub already provides RH) and running fans is unnecessary as the sub provides plenty of heat currents to cycle the air. It's just going to complicate an already elegant and effective system.
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enlightenment
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushhiehunter]
#23916031 - 12/11/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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No need to automate something for monotubs.
I got an automated GH for my edibles controlled by a raspberry.
That's why I wrote a CO2 sensor could be interesting for me. Just to monitor/log the CO2 concentration and adjust the FAE. I like to watch and analyze diagrams. Of course it could be done without a sensor (I am doing it successful without one). Anyway for this price I will buy one even if I don't need it. Not neccessary but nice to have if it works.
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egobrain
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: enlightenment]
#23916041 - 12/11/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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K.I.S.S.
Keep
It
Simple
Stupid
I live by this rule, not just in cultivation. Monitoring co2 seems pointless for cubes..
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: egobrain]
#23916192 - 12/11/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Josex
#cheat_code
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Posts: 8,996
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushboy]
#23916243 - 12/11/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:
op got shat on because hes trying to replace fanning for automated FAE.
the problem is fanning doesnt provide fae. his point is invalid. user error.
file not found. bad command line. ect..
automated grow chambers sound cool if you want it. but to myself the whole
process of watching and reacting to what the mushrooms are telling me is the
essence of why i grow the mushroom in the first place. besides the drugs effect.
and no one flammed or trolled OP. i just said fanning isnt fae
and got the treatment
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cronicr
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Josex]
#23916464 - 12/11/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Use the meter n measure the levels of a mono colonizing...one with poly in one taped then again after pinning.
--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: PussyFart]
#23917167 - 12/11/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
First you insinuate that one of the reasons you are doing this is for better yield, and then you negate it by saying you are not looking for a better yield.....?
Quote:
Arcanum said:
Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter) or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE.
Allows more of an opportunity, can, could, couldn't... none of those are assertions.
Quote:
PussyFart said:
Secondly YOU CAN tell if they are getting enough FAE simply by looking at the fruits and the substrate and reading what it wants/needs, which comes with experience. No need for a co2 meter of any kind.
Not everyone has a shit ton of experience. If the amount of experience you need to "read what it wants" takes x many grows to gain, you'll have to pay the cost of those grows where you're likely to make mistakes. $10 worth of components, an hour of so of programming (which I could eliminate by sharing my code), and you've short-cut that learning curve. Bam! Usefulness. Second, "reading what the shrooms wants/needs" isn't empirical.
Quote:
spacechildo said:
I dont see any hate here, all I see is a confused OP misreading RR quotes and thinking since RR says to fan a sgfc that means we all fan monotubs for FAE, which we all know isnt true.
the best way to know if your air is stale in a tub is to look at the mushrooms, not the reading of some co2 meter.
the meter doesnt tell you what your culture wants, the mushrooms does.
If you want more FAE in a tub, loosen the poly. a monotub is automated so no need to do unnecessary work that probably only will screw things up for you
I never said everyone fans monotubs. I said some people do.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
The problem is that the configuration of a monotub doesn't lend itself to automation. The horizontal shape easily leads to oversaturation if you supply extra humidity (the sub already provides RH) and running fans is unnecessary as the sub provides plenty of heat currents to cycle the air. It's just going to complicate an already elegant and effective system.
I never even said I was doing a monotub?
Quote:
Mad Season said:
IMO people are trying to help him... correct me if I'm wrong. He seems to not have much experience, and they're trying to help him learn to walk (interpret mushroom/mycelial reactions) before he runs (makes a chamber with gizmos up the ass that accommodates to those reactions)
Is a person who needs more experience really the kinda person who should attempt this? If this was azur, pasty, cron, etc I wouldn't be saying anything but just saying..
 Gizmos up the ass? Really? It's a $3 micro-controller, two $2 sensors, two $0.50 PC fans, and a $5 ultrasonic humidifier, a little bit of circuitry, and a few hours of programming. I could finish it in a day if I didn't have other shit to do.
UGH! I KNOW I can grow shrooms just as easily with a plain monotub! That's not the fucking point! It baffles me why people have so much of a problem with the way I'm growing my shrooms. I'm monitoring humidity too so if I flush the air more than I need to, it's not hurting anything. If you don't find it necessary or useful, good for you, now move on and stop filling my thread with your irrelevant criticism.
I've already had successful grows before. I'm just trying something new for fucks sake because I want the challenge. I don't need massive amounts of shrooms so even if I get half the yield of a monotub, I really don't give a shit. With the fruit I do get, I'll trip knowing I grew them how I wanted to, not how I was badgered into doing it by people who don't understand why I grow them myself in the first place.
--------------------
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Arcanum
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Mad Season]
#23917168 - 12/11/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
For testing purposes, I have a 6,400 cubic cm Sterlite container with a 60mm hole at the top (CO2 sinks, I know, but this is just a test)
CO2 doesn't sink. It's infinitely miscable it mixes with air nearly immediately and forms a homogeneous air mixture
Co2 will settle out sightly in huge sealed containers.
Even in the beer industry there's the misconception that co2 blankets
I was testing is a small container without any heat source to create convection currents. The only holes were at the top, as was the fan and there was a filter between it. I was getting pockets of air at the bottom that weren't circulating when the fan was on, and I know that because I measured it.
Quote:
Mad Season said:
That is concentrated co2 (probably 90+% co2 produced in an instant) far beyond anything you'd see in either a sealed room or the atmosphere, what you dont see is lots of particles dissipating into the air around it. The majority of it will go to the bottom, but in no time at all it will get mixed into the atmosphere again.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Like the difference between drinking a glass of water and waterboarding. . .
I was testing the sensor, not modelling growing conditions.
Quote:
mushboy said:
i looked up the calibration of the mq135 and its ridiculously fussy.
OP- correct me if wrong but if the power goes out or something you have
to re-calibrate the sensor? so the system is off while this happens? how long
does this take?
considering power could be out for awhile the automation aspect falls apart
and since its limited to its setup, the mushrooms are shut in a box with no
FAE happening.
You don't have to calibrate the sensor each time it is powered up, but it does have to warm up a little. Immediately after turning on, it will read high and slowly level off to expected levels over 30 - 60 seconds. That's not a big deal.
Quote:
Mad Season said:
Yep what space and PF said.
If this was just for fun then by all means go for it op! But you made it sound like this is the only way of figuring out what mushrooms want, when in reality all you need to do is learn every reaction they put off and accommodate to it.
Not once did I EVER say that this was the only way to grow shrooms well. In the original post, NOT ONCE did I say a word about expecting better yield or anything about yield, period. In response to people calling me noob and telling me I was wasting my time, I said that this was for fun, experimentation, and learning experience (for microcontrollers, not necessarily growing shrooms)... and then mentioned that MAYBE, just MAYBE having monitoring abilities and consistent control over environmental conditions, there could be peripheral benefits. Someone claimed that no one fans for FAE, I quoted a respected grower outright contradicting that.
Quote:
Keep in mind, the reason people are saying that OP should do tubs, isn't because they hate him.. they don't want him to waste his time and money for something that isn't needed, at all.
With all due respect, I think that's bullshit. I don't think they personally hate me, but they definitely relish the idea of flexing their clearly superior shroom growing muscles at any chance they get for no reason other than the feeling of doing so. As I've already mentioned several times, I'm not investing my time and money into this project because I think it is necessary.
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Kenetic
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23917177 - 12/11/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good luck
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Todo Cambia
  
  
DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum] 1
#23917226 - 12/11/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dude you need to calm down. You responded to 2 posts from me, neither of which were directed at you or had anything negative to say about your project. Melting is no way to make a point.
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PussyFart
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23917419 - 12/11/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
I was testing is a small container without any heat source to create convection currents.
Mycellium generates heat. Substrates generate humidity.
So in real world conditions, those test results wouldn't mean anything.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT!
A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD,
SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List,
EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
*** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (12/11/16 06:45 PM)
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spacechildo
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: PussyFart]
#23917434 - 12/11/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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man I love pubbers in mush cult 
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bodhisatta
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23917435 - 12/11/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
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cronicr
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23917441 - 12/11/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Co2 meters are pretty fucking sensitive from my understanding and breathing in the room will effect them.
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Mad Season
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23917729 - 12/11/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Lol! The dude fuckin didn't read anything and went all defensive because we told him he doesn't know the reactions
Good shit. Now read it again, and while youre at it, read other stuff too. Keep on reading and reading, and when you think you've done enough reading, you're not even 1% of the way there
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
I not only agree with this, I'm going to go further and say how do you know what your equipment is saying is accurate without knowing the mushrooms reactions? A sensor could tell me 99% rH or 600 ppm of co2, but the mushrooms themselves could look dry AF and need more surface hydration, or they're telling me they need more FAE.. the sensors don't replace what your eyes can, and I'd say 9/10 times they actually hinder the grower because they're contradicting what the mushrooms are telling him.
This is why I said learn to walk before running. These fancy gizmos aren't the mushrooms that are growing. They're just tools you shouldn't even need once you can tell their reactions.
Tl;dr once you can read the mushrooms, read the environment and calibrate your tools accordingly, then tell US how you figured out the best possible environment with your skills.
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 08:59 PM)
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Arcanum
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Kenetic]
#23918003 - 12/11/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said:
Mycellium generates heat. Substrates generate humidity.
So in real world conditions, those test results wouldn't mean anything.
I never said they would translate to real world conditions. I was testing the reliability of the sensor.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Dude you need to calm down. You responded to 2 posts from me, neither of which were directed at you or had anything negative to say about your project. Melting is no way to make a point.
I apologize (genuinely). I'm getting frustrated having to repeat myself over and over again for the people that don't seem to understand why I am doing this. From your first post on this thread, I don't think you're one of those people, but there are people beating a strawman that I have not given them any reason to construct. I'm getting exasperated because I'd rather be talking about the actual topic of this thread.
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
For the third time, I already have experience with successful grows. They were years ago and maybe I'm not totally up to date on the know-how, but it is experience nonetheless. I also have three years experience using microcontrollers and using them to interface with sensors, and another ten years writing code. I don't have much experience with CO2 sensors, but it's kind of hard to gain that experience without experimenting with one... which is the entire point of my project. I'm not doing anything outlandish. I'm using a novel method of sensing CO2 to programmatically control fans. It's not rocket science.
I have a big problem with people implying they know how it will affect growing shrooms despite the fact they themselves have no experience with CO2 meters and couldn't give anything close to an objective measure of CO2 levels inside their fruiting chambers. Show me someone who has empirically measured the CO2 produced by growing shrooms, and I will totally accept any criticism they have to give.
Quote:
Mad Season said:
Lol! The dude fuckin didn't read anything and went all defensive because we told him he doesn't know the reactions
Good shit. Now read it again, and while youre at it, read other stuff too. Keep on reading and reading, and when you think you've done enough reading, you're not even 1% of the way there
You know way more about growing shrooms than I do. No doubt. Believe it or not, I haven't professed or implied anything to suggest otherwise. That being said, you should try reading what I've written so maybe you'll actually understand why I am doing this project instead of junking up my thread with posts about how stupid and inexperienced I am.
Quote:
cronicr said:
Co2 meters are pretty fucking sensitive from my understanding and breathing in the room will effect them.
They are. People have actually used much more accurate CO2 sensors to roughly estimate the number of people inside of a room, but it depends on how well ventilated it is. That's irrelevant though, seeing as my fruiting chamber will be mostly enclosed.
Quote:
kenetic said:
Good luck
Thanks, I appreciate it
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Mad Season
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918006 - 12/11/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Please read my edited post.. I was working and didn't have time to sit down and type out why I said what I did, and sorry for talking down to you.. I do appreciate the thoughts on making your conditions best, but you have to understand that I help someone with sensors like hygrometers and co2 sensors all the time, and I've very rarely said "oh yeah that looks like it's got enough humidity/fresh air, good work!" Usually it's wow those are neglected looking, and they reply with but it's 99% and under 1000 ppm or something.. To which I say, you need to learn the myceliums reactions and accommodate to it. I really genuinely want people not to waste their time, ya know? If you're still just going to do it, I can't stop you. It's your grow, but I'm hoping you can understand my point of view.
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 09:38 PM)
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cronicr
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918010 - 12/11/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well if your going to play with them test the numbers of a colonizing versus fruiting sub for moi
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Arcanum
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23918098 - 12/11/16 10:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So, I have one 27cm x 36cm x 12cm "tray" with 5 lbs of horse poo substrate, 6 cm deep, spawned with 2 lbs of fully colonized rye roughly 48 hours ago. The "tray" is covered with plastic wrap with a few small holes poked into it.
I slipped the MQ135 sensor into the tray(without removing the plastic wrap) and it is reading consistently at 3500-4000 ppm (at the same calibration I did the tests mentioned in the original post). That's roughly 8 times the concentration of the room it is in.
The tub that I will be fruiting the tray in is 50 x 40 x 32 cm, or 64000 cubic cm.
Supposing that the majority of the CO2 in the tray is concentrated in the empty space above the substrate (with a volume above 6,000 cubic cm), had I been colonizing the substrate as a monotub, the CO2 concentration 48 hours into colonizing bulk substrate, I can estimate would be about 900 (according to my sensor). That is ((64000 - 6000) / 6000) * 3900 + 500 OR ((volume of tub - volume of substrate) / volume of empty space in tray) * CO2 concentration in empty space of tray + ambient CO2 level. Effectively, that's taking the CO2 rich air in the empty space of the tray and dispersing it into what would be the empty space of the tub. Before people jump on that, it's an estimation... I'm not saying it's necessarily going to be accurate.
Obviously, we don't want FAE during colonization, but this just serves as evidence that there is measurable CO2 production by actively growing mushrooms to be read inside of an enclosed growing space.
Now, can anyone say with any certainty whether or not fruiting shrooms produce more or less CO2 than when colonizing?
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cronicr
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918108 - 12/11/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes they have said it with certainty as it was tested n makes sense as it is not metabolizing as much as it did
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr] 1
#23918123 - 12/11/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have FAE when I colonize my monos lately. Ends up with a more plural first flush but not really a bad thing in terms of yield. Definitely colonizes fast and pins a bit faster too.
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liloldme
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23918224 - 12/11/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Something to consider, take a look at the ESP8266 if you're not already using it about 3 dollars each. It's just like the arduino but has Wifi built into it already. You can do html injections to host a webpage right off the chip with image URL redirects like the picture below to control the settings if you don't want to have to re-upload modified C coding every time you want to make an adjustment holy shit this is a long ass sentence.
One of my dork out sessions
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23026284
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: liloldme]
#23918257 - 12/11/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Yes they have said it with certainty as it was tested n makes sense as it is not metabolizing as much as it did
Who is they? I initially figured the same thing, but wouldn't the fungus still be metabolizing significant amounts of nutrients to produce the biomass for fruit bodies or is there some kind of other process going on?
In any case, I still expect there will be a measurable increase in CO2 levels during fruiting. The tray has only just started to colonize the substrate and it's already producing enough.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
I have FAE when I colonize my monos lately. Ends up with a more plural first flush but not really a bad thing in terms of yield. Definitely colonizes fast and pins a bit faster too.
Interesting... by FAE, are you just referring to holes in the tub or are you doing something else? See, this sort of thing is why I think CO2 monitoring could be useful, if it can be done cheaply/easily enough. Maybe there is a FAE sweet spot for colonization... not too much, not too little. Surely, one could figure it out without a CO2 sensor but it would help to have one for more empirical experimentation.
Quote:
liloldme said:
Something to consider, take a look at the ESP8266 if you're not already using it about 3 dollars each. It's just like the arduino but has Wifi built into it already. You can do html injections to host a webpage right off the chip with image URL redirects like the picture below to control the settings if you don't want to have to re-upload modified C coding every time you want to make an adjustment holy shit this is a long ass sentence.
Though I haven't actually played with them yet, I do already have a couple of ESP8266s sitting in one of my chip boxes (along with several other modules I haven't even taken out of the anti-static packaging yet)... plus a Wemos microcontroller with one built in.  I've seen some of the things people have done with them and it blows me away what can be done with a $3 chip. It probably single-handedly progressed DIY IoT technology by 5 years... and designed by a relatively unknown Chinese manufacturer, no less.
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cronicr
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918531 - 12/12/16 03:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Id bet it would be measurable amounts for sure but lower then colonizing simply due to the fae.
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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FckingNameless
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23918765 - 12/12/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP, already have an arduino, am I g2g??
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Arcanum
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23919353 - 12/12/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FckingNameless said:
OP, already have an arduino, am I g2g??
Is there a reason you're getting both a Lua and an ESP8266? The Lua is a microcontroller in and of itself with a Wifi chip built in. I mean, as cheap as they are, it doesn't hurt to buy both, but just make sure you know what you are getting.
I wouldn't get the AM2001. I can't find any Arduino libraries for translating its analog output to a value so you'd be on your own as far as how to interface with it... which can be tricky as datasheets for many of Chinese manufactured parts are not translated very well.
I'd suggest the DHT22, which is what I'm using. It not only senses humidity (0-100% with 2-5% accuracy) but temperature as well. There are a number of well-written libraries to read its digital output, and you can probably find it cheaper than that AM2001 (I get most of my parts from Aliexpress as well  ). Only downside is that it won't update more than once every 2 seconds or so, but that's not a big deal in this use case.
It's not necessary but I also recommended getting a display of some sort... like a 2 x 16 character LCD... for displaying the values. You could send the data via serial to a computer (and from there do some cool things with it using the Processing language), but it helps to not necessarily have the Arduino tethered to a computer. I recently bought this one and it works great. It comes prebuilt with an I2C interface chip and still only costs $2.
Quote:
cronicr said:
Id bet it would be measurable amounts for sure but lower then colonizing simply due to the fae.
Right, that makes sense. Well, I'm going find out either way eventually!
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FckingNameless
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23920559 - 12/12/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said:
Is there a reason you're getting both a Lua and an ESP8266? The Lua is a microcontroller in and of itself with a Wifi chip built in. I mean, as cheap as they are, it doesn't hurt to buy both, but just make sure you know what you are getting.
yeah this one was just for blinking some leds through the internet lol
Quote:
Arcanum said:
I wouldn't get the AM2001. I can't find any Arduino libraries for translating its analog output to a value so you'd be on your own as far as how to interface with it... which can be tricky as datasheets for many of Chinese manufactured parts are not translated very well.
I'd suggest the DHT22, which is what I'm using. It not only senses humidity (0-100% with 2-5% accuracy) but temperature as well. There are a number of well-written libraries to read its digital output, and you can probably find it cheaper than that AM2001 (I get most of my parts from Aliexpress as well ). Only downside is that it won't update more than once every 2 seconds or so, but that's not a big deal in this use case.
It's not necessary but I also recommended getting a display of some sort... like a 2 x 16 character LCD... for displaying the values. You could send the data via serial to a computer (and from there do some cool things with it using the Processing language), but it helps to not necessarily have the Arduino tethered to a computer. I recently bought this one and it works great. It comes prebuilt with an I2C interface chip and still only costs $2.
IDK, read something about it being good for environments with higher RH, may get both in case one of them fail
in Stamets book he says that CO2 is beneficial during colonization and recommended a 5000-10000ppm range as "ideal", what range you would try to keep them with this setup?
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FckingNameless
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: FckingNameless]
#23927204 - 12/14/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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LogDawg
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 Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: Arcanum]
#24868536 - 12/25/17 09:39 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't understand why most of the people on this website are so aggressive towards these automation projects. I get that for most of these projects simplicity is key, but it doesn't hurt to try and to improve things and learn from mistakes. This is definitely a lot to read over and probably is overcomplicated and time-wasting for what most people want to put in, but this is awesome for people who want to learn about automation. Your decision to use those sensors were creative, super cheap, and saved me some time researching. The 1st world needs people like you to tackle new challenges and make life easier for the rest of society
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Josex
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Loc:
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: LogDawg]
#24868629 - 12/25/17 11:24 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Grow a couple tubs and then you'd understand the hate towards these contraptions. They're awesome if you like to tinker and mess with electronics, it'd probably make you feel so clever and shit... But cultivation-wise? They're useless, a lot of work n trouble and have no place in this hobby.
Edited by Josex (12/25/17 11:30 PM)
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Craboulas
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: Josex]
#25454273 - 09/12/18 07:34 AM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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The culture on this forum is sad and disappointing. For a group of people with easy access to mind altering compounds that can foster a greater sense of connection and goodwill, the mindset tends to be close minded, and hateful. Not enough focus on set and setting, I suppose.
Those who don't want to put in the effort for something like this, or have the comprehension to understand the concepts, would rather lash out than to let others explore and enjoy.
If everyone just chanted the same mantra "follow the f*cking tek", no progress would ever be made. There is so much contradiction on these forums about what is the best practice. Which means that things are constantly evolving. People latch on to one particular method, as if it is perfectly optimal, simply because it hasn't completely failed. When somebody tries to introduce a whiff of scientific method and you guys act like a bunch of religious nuts confronted with witchcraft.
To the OP: thank you for taking the time to write this up and share with the board. Some of us appreciate it!
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bodhisatta
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Loc: Milky way
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: Craboulas] 2
#25454280 - 09/12/18 07:39 AM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lol wut, this forum relentlessly pushes advancement and new ideas...
Ideas constantly evolve and change.
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mrmazdarx9
Pffffttt
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: bodhisatta]
#25455133 - 09/12/18 02:49 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love its always the new people who have to be the high and mighty douche looking down their noses because we say an idea isnt good, has been done, doesnt work. Then they disappear or get the point and and become the ones saying it wont work.
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Craboulas
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Munchauzen]
#25456708 - 09/13/18 06:57 AM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Lol wut, this forum relentlessly pushes advancement and new ideas...
Ideas constantly evolve and change.
I'm not saying that you or others here don't experiment, or push for improvement; but you have to admit that many here attack people for doing so.
Quote:
Munchauzen said: I'm not sure whats wrong with a plastic tote with holes in it. What you call "automation" sounds like a fuckload of work.
Quote:
Josex said:
No need to read your walls of text... You're overcomplicating stuff, that feels unshroomy mang and shrooms like it simple. Fucking the follow tek, succeed and then see if you need to do all that bullshit
Quote:
Srirachi said:
When people quote RR nonstop, it is usually a sign that they have zero actual experience.
Quote:
Josex said:
Grow a couple tubs and then you'd understand the hate towards these contraptions. They're awesome if you like to tinker and mess with electronics, it'd probably make you feel so clever and shit... But cultivation-wise? They're useless, a lot of work n trouble and have no place in this hobby.
Edited by Craboulas (09/13/18 07:25 AM)
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Craboulas
Stranger
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (FOR FUN AND EXPERIMENTATION) [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#25456712 - 09/13/18 06:58 AM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said:
I love its always the new people who have to be the high and mighty douche looking down their noses because we say an idea isnt good, has been done, doesnt work. Then they disappear or get the point and and become the ones saying it wont work.
Who is "we"? Do you have a turd in your pocket? Have you made a compelling argument about why monitoring CO2 levels in a fruiting chamber "isn't good / doesn't work"?
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