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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: spacechildo]
#23916005 - 12/11/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i should of used the quote box for moab on that one.
oh well.
anywho lets help OP get a canopy of wall to wall mushrooms in a monotub. then discuss if automation is necessary.
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mushhiehunter
Trichodermatologist



Registered: 10/11/16
Posts: 837
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushboy]
#23916018 - 12/11/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmm this thread got me thinking... Has anyone ever created a fully automated system using a monotub? (I know that tuned monotub is pretty much on auto-pilot) but I would like to see someone using arduino with sensors to show all the sweet data that would come out of the system. It certainly would be an amazing source for learning...
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushhiehunter]
#23916030 - 12/11/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The problem is that the configuration of a monotub doesn't lend itself to automation. The horizontal shape easily leads to oversaturation if you supply extra humidity (the sub already provides RH) and running fans is unnecessary as the sub provides plenty of heat currents to cycle the air. It's just going to complicate an already elegant and effective system.
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enlightenment
alchemist


Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 1,647
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 months, 21 days
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushhiehunter]
#23916031 - 12/11/16 11:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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 No need to automate something for monotubs.
I got an automated GH for my edibles controlled by a raspberry. That's why I wrote a CO2 sensor could be interesting for me. Just to monitor/log the CO2 concentration and adjust the FAE. I like to watch and analyze diagrams. Of course it could be done without a sensor (I am doing it successful without one). Anyway for this price I will buy one even if I don't need it. Not neccessary but nice to have if it works.
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egobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: enlightenment]
#23916041 - 12/11/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid
I live by this rule, not just in cultivation. Monitoring co2 seems pointless for cubes..
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 18 days, 8 minutes
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: egobrain]
#23916192 - 12/11/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Josex
#cheat_code



Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: mushboy]
#23916243 - 12/11/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: op got shat on because hes trying to replace fanning for automated FAE. the problem is fanning doesnt provide fae. his point is invalid. user error. file not found. bad command line. ect..
automated grow chambers sound cool if you want it. but to myself the whole process of watching and reacting to what the mushrooms are telling me is the essence of why i grow the mushroom in the first place. besides the drugs effect.
and no one flammed or trolled OP. i just said fanning isnt fae and got the treatment
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Josex]
#23916464 - 12/11/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Use the meter n measure the levels of a mono colonizing...one with poly in one taped then again after pinning.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!



Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: PussyFart]
#23917167 - 12/11/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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PussyFart said: First you insinuate that one of the reasons you are doing this is for better yield, and then you negate it by saying you are not looking for a better yield.....? 
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Arcanum said: Second of all, having more control (or at least having the ability to monitor) CO2 levels allows more of an opportunity to dial in optimal conditions. Just because you can get a decent pin set in a tub with holes in it doesn't mean they're getting as much fresh air as they could (you have no way of knowing without a CO2 meter) or that you couldn't get better yields more reliably with better/more consistent FAE.
Allows more of an opportunity, can, could, couldn't... none of those are assertions.
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PussyFart said: Secondly YOU CAN tell if they are getting enough FAE simply by looking at the fruits and the substrate and reading what it wants/needs, which comes with experience. No need for a co2 meter of any kind.
Not everyone has a shit ton of experience. If the amount of experience you need to "read what it wants" takes x many grows to gain, you'll have to pay the cost of those grows where you're likely to make mistakes. $10 worth of components, an hour of so of programming (which I could eliminate by sharing my code), and you've short-cut that learning curve. Bam! Usefulness. Second, "reading what the shrooms wants/needs" isn't empirical.
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spacechildo said: I dont see any hate here, all I see is a confused OP misreading RR quotes and thinking since RR says to fan a sgfc that means we all fan monotubs for FAE, which we all know isnt true.
the best way to know if your air is stale in a tub is to look at the mushrooms, not the reading of some co2 meter. the meter doesnt tell you what your culture wants, the mushrooms does.
If you want more FAE in a tub, loosen the poly. a monotub is automated so no need to do unnecessary work that probably only will screw things up for you 
I never said everyone fans monotubs. I said some people do.
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Pastywhyte said: The problem is that the configuration of a monotub doesn't lend itself to automation. The horizontal shape easily leads to oversaturation if you supply extra humidity (the sub already provides RH) and running fans is unnecessary as the sub provides plenty of heat currents to cycle the air. It's just going to complicate an already elegant and effective system.
I never even said I was doing a monotub?
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Mad Season said:
IMO people are trying to help him... correct me if I'm wrong. He seems to not have much experience, and they're trying to help him learn to walk (interpret mushroom/mycelial reactions) before he runs (makes a chamber with gizmos up the ass that accommodates to those reactions)
Is a person who needs more experience really the kinda person who should attempt this? If this was azur, pasty, cron, etc I wouldn't be saying anything but just saying..
Gizmos up the ass? Really? It's a $3 micro-controller, two $2 sensors, two $0.50 PC fans, and a $5 ultrasonic humidifier, a little bit of circuitry, and a few hours of programming. I could finish it in a day if I didn't have other shit to do.
UGH! I KNOW I can grow shrooms just as easily with a plain monotub! That's not the fucking point! It baffles me why people have so much of a problem with the way I'm growing my shrooms. I'm monitoring humidity too so if I flush the air more than I need to, it's not hurting anything. If you don't find it necessary or useful, good for you, now move on and stop filling my thread with your irrelevant criticism.
I've already had successful grows before. I'm just trying something new for fucks sake because I want the challenge. I don't need massive amounts of shrooms so even if I get half the yield of a monotub, I really don't give a shit. With the fruit I do get, I'll trip knowing I grew them how I wanted to, not how I was badgered into doing it by people who don't understand why I grow them myself in the first place.
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!



Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Mad Season]
#23917168 - 12/11/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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bodhisatta said:
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For testing purposes, I have a 6,400 cubic cm Sterlite container with a 60mm hole at the top (CO2 sinks, I know, but this is just a test)
CO2 doesn't sink. It's infinitely miscable it mixes with air nearly immediately and forms a homogeneous air mixture
Co2 will settle out sightly in huge sealed containers.
Even in the beer industry there's the misconception that co2 blankets
I was testing is a small container without any heat source to create convection currents. The only holes were at the top, as was the fan and there was a filter between it. I was getting pockets of air at the bottom that weren't circulating when the fan was on, and I know that because I measured it.
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Mad Season said: That is concentrated co2 (probably 90+% co2 produced in an instant) far beyond anything you'd see in either a sealed room or the atmosphere, what you dont see is lots of particles dissipating into the air around it. The majority of it will go to the bottom, but in no time at all it will get mixed into the atmosphere again.
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Pastywhyte said: Like the difference between drinking a glass of water and waterboarding. . .
I was testing the sensor, not modelling growing conditions.
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mushboy said: i looked up the calibration of the mq135 and its ridiculously fussy.
OP- correct me if wrong but if the power goes out or something you have to re-calibrate the sensor? so the system is off while this happens? how long does this take? considering power could be out for awhile the automation aspect falls apart and since its limited to its setup, the mushrooms are shut in a box with no FAE happening.
You don't have to calibrate the sensor each time it is powered up, but it does have to warm up a little. Immediately after turning on, it will read high and slowly level off to expected levels over 30 - 60 seconds. That's not a big deal.
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Mad Season said: Yep what space and PF said.
If this was just for fun then by all means go for it op! But you made it sound like this is the only way of figuring out what mushrooms want, when in reality all you need to do is learn every reaction they put off and accommodate to it.
Not once did I EVER say that this was the only way to grow shrooms well. In the original post, NOT ONCE did I say a word about expecting better yield or anything about yield, period. In response to people calling me noob and telling me I was wasting my time, I said that this was for fun, experimentation, and learning experience (for microcontrollers, not necessarily growing shrooms)... and then mentioned that MAYBE, just MAYBE having monitoring abilities and consistent control over environmental conditions, there could be peripheral benefits. Someone claimed that no one fans for FAE, I quoted a respected grower outright contradicting that.
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Keep in mind, the reason people are saying that OP should do tubs, isn't because they hate him.. they don't want him to waste his time and money for something that isn't needed, at all.
With all due respect, I think that's bullshit. I don't think they personally hate me, but they definitely relish the idea of flexing their clearly superior shroom growing muscles at any chance they get for no reason other than the feeling of doing so. As I've already mentioned several times, I'm not investing my time and money into this project because I think it is necessary.
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



Registered: 08/24/14
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23917177 - 12/11/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good luck
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum] 1
#23917226 - 12/11/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dude you need to calm down. You responded to 2 posts from me, neither of which were directed at you or had anything negative to say about your project. Melting is no way to make a point.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 18 days, 8 minutes
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23917419 - 12/11/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Arcanum said: I was testing is a small container without any heat source to create convection currents.
Mycellium generates heat. Substrates generate humidity.
So in real world conditions, those test results wouldn't mean anything.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (12/11/16 06:45 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: PussyFart]
#23917434 - 12/11/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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man I love pubbers in mush cult
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23917435 - 12/11/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: bodhisatta]
#23917441 - 12/11/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Co2 meters are pretty fucking sensitive from my understanding and breathing in the room will effect them.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: cronicr]
#23917729 - 12/11/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol! The dude fuckin didn't read anything and went all defensive because we told him he doesn't know the reactions
Good shit. Now read it again, and while youre at it, read other stuff too. Keep on reading and reading, and when you think you've done enough reading, you're not even 1% of the way there
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bodhisatta said: people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
I not only agree with this, I'm going to go further and say how do you know what your equipment is saying is accurate without knowing the mushrooms reactions? A sensor could tell me 99% rH or 600 ppm of co2, but the mushrooms themselves could look dry AF and need more surface hydration, or they're telling me they need more FAE.. the sensors don't replace what your eyes can, and I'd say 9/10 times they actually hinder the grower because they're contradicting what the mushrooms are telling him.
This is why I said learn to walk before running. These fancy gizmos aren't the mushrooms that are growing. They're just tools you shouldn't even need once you can tell their reactions.
Tl;dr once you can read the mushrooms, read the environment and calibrate your tools accordingly, then tell US how you figured out the best possible environment with your skills.
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 08:59 PM)
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!



Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 871
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Kenetic]
#23918003 - 12/11/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PussyFart said: Mycellium generates heat. Substrates generate humidity.
So in real world conditions, those test results wouldn't mean anything.
I never said they would translate to real world conditions. I was testing the reliability of the sensor.
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Pastywhyte said: Dude you need to calm down. You responded to 2 posts from me, neither of which were directed at you or had anything negative to say about your project. Melting is no way to make a point.
I apologize (genuinely). I'm getting frustrated having to repeat myself over and over again for the people that don't seem to understand why I am doing this. From your first post on this thread, I don't think you're one of those people, but there are people beating a strawman that I have not given them any reason to construct. I'm getting exasperated because I'd rather be talking about the actual topic of this thread.
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bodhisatta said: people have a problem with it because you're trying to do something the experts have trouble with, start simple when you have no experience on your hands. you're building something based on assumptions and things you read. maybe get a few grows under your belt before trying to outsmart passive automation
For the third time, I already have experience with successful grows. They were years ago and maybe I'm not totally up to date on the know-how, but it is experience nonetheless. I also have three years experience using microcontrollers and using them to interface with sensors, and another ten years writing code. I don't have much experience with CO2 sensors, but it's kind of hard to gain that experience without experimenting with one... which is the entire point of my project. I'm not doing anything outlandish. I'm using a novel method of sensing CO2 to programmatically control fans. It's not rocket science.
I have a big problem with people implying they know how it will affect growing shrooms despite the fact they themselves have no experience with CO2 meters and couldn't give anything close to an objective measure of CO2 levels inside their fruiting chambers. Show me someone who has empirically measured the CO2 produced by growing shrooms, and I will totally accept any criticism they have to give.
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Mad Season said: Lol! The dude fuckin didn't read anything and went all defensive because we told him he doesn't know the reactions
Good shit. Now read it again, and while youre at it, read other stuff too. Keep on reading and reading, and when you think you've done enough reading, you're not even 1% of the way there
You know way more about growing shrooms than I do. No doubt. Believe it or not, I haven't professed or implied anything to suggest otherwise. That being said, you should try reading what I've written so maybe you'll actually understand why I am doing this project instead of junking up my thread with posts about how stupid and inexperienced I am.
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cronicr said: Co2 meters are pretty fucking sensitive from my understanding and breathing in the room will effect them.
They are. People have actually used much more accurate CO2 sensors to roughly estimate the number of people inside of a room, but it depends on how well ventilated it is. That's irrelevant though, seeing as my fruiting chamber will be mostly enclosed.
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kenetic said: Good luck
Thanks, I appreciate it
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918006 - 12/11/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please read my edited post.. I was working and didn't have time to sit down and type out why I said what I did, and sorry for talking down to you.. I do appreciate the thoughts on making your conditions best, but you have to understand that I help someone with sensors like hygrometers and co2 sensors all the time, and I've very rarely said "oh yeah that looks like it's got enough humidity/fresh air, good work!" Usually it's wow those are neglected looking, and they reply with but it's 99% and under 1000 ppm or something.. To which I say, you need to learn the myceliums reactions and accommodate to it. I really genuinely want people not to waste their time, ya know? If you're still just going to do it, I can't stop you. It's your grow, but I'm hoping you can understand my point of view.
Edited by Mad Season (12/11/16 09:38 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Extremely affordable method to roughly monitor CO2 concentration (for FAE automation) [Re: Arcanum]
#23918010 - 12/11/16 09:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well if your going to play with them test the numbers of a colonizing versus fruiting sub for moi
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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