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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep
#23913447 - 12/10/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey,
So I'm currently going through one of the toughest times of my life. I've now had chronic insomnia for over a year.
It started like prior episodes I have had where I would wake up at 4am and then not be able to return to sleep I believe after a night of drinking but am not sure.
Last year I was doing a lot of shrooms mostly because they are my favorite drug by far but also when they work to 100% of their potential they are such a powerful anti depressant. They work better than any SSRI I've taken. Over the course of last summer I ended up doing them multiple times during a week period some times and did a 7 gram dose once last year and have a trip report on this very site about the trip( Was amazing).
Over the next few months as my insomnia returned I resorted to sleeping pills mainly Clonazepam and zopliclone and then would try and dose every month or so on shrooms to try and battle my depression but it seemed that I had developed long term tolerance to the shrooms for some reason even waiting 3 months I still could not have a full on trip dosing on an 1/8 or 5 grams only partial trips.
My insomnia has been getting worse and worse over the past 8 months to the point I lost my job due to calling in sick as I was going days at a time being unable to sleep, in fact went a full 8 days at one point being unable to sleep even a minute, my mind started falling apart and I ended up at the hospital, they gave me more clonazepam which would allow me to sleep at first taking 2 x 0.5mg of it, but then the effect wore off and sustaining would mean raising dose to 1.5mg, eventually this dose didn't help me any longer. Zopliclone stopped working as well, my doctor then put me on escitalopram( Lexapro) thinking that depression was causing my insomnia. After 2 months my sleep still didn't return, so he put me on Zoloft which made the insomnia even worse and I can't seem to get even an hour of sleep any longer.
Just recently started taking mirtazapine after hearing how good it was for sleep has been 4 days since I started to take it and although I do feel sleepier at bed time it's not enough to knock me out, I seem to be only capable of being in this weird dream awareness state where I dream but it feels like I'm awake.
Sorry to drag on here but obviously I am very concerned as to why my sleep won't return and I can't get the deep restorative sleep a person needs, I'm starting to worry that my shroom use has damaged some sort of receptor and that perhaps I may never be able to sleep normally again. Has anyone heard of this?
My alternate theory is that my brain is just so used to always have some sort of sedative to sleep be it booze, a sleeping pill or weed to sleep for so long that in the absence it doesn't create the chemicals needed to sleep naturally any longer. Because of this I've been tapering myself off of the clonazepam only taking 0.75mg/day currently and am reducing the dose by 1/8 every two weeks. Also haven't drank in 7 weeks to try and rule out the booze and haven't smoked weed in 7 weeks either.
Man not being able to sleep is the worst torture you can imagine all I want is to have my life back and be able to work and focus and not feel ill all the time I'm lost and my doctor just doesn't seem to have the answers for me. I'm just really worried that I caused the damage and it's irreparable now...
If anyone else out there has any insight it would be great.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 12,736
Loc: Bada-Bing!
Last seen: 9 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913465 - 12/10/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would just smoke the weed if it helps dude all that other shit is gonna have some serious consequences to your brain /health
--------------------
sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: theRealrollforever]
#23913471 - 12/10/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: I would just smoke the weed if it helps dude all that other shit is gonna have some serious consequences to your brain /health
The problem is I became tolerant to weed as well and it gives me anxiety so serves no purpose at all.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 12,736
Loc: Bada-Bing!
Last seen: 9 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913502 - 12/10/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well to answer your question about psilocybin I guarantee you the problem is defintiely the slurry of pharmas you've taken / are on and some unaddressed anxiety rather than from tripping. Going overboard can result in some HPPD tho and that can certainly be anxiety inducing and thus affect sleep that way. It's happened to me but I still kinda consider that unaddressed anxiety rather than any neurological change you may have thought happened from tripping, even frequently.
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: theRealrollforever]
#23913522 - 12/10/16 03:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: Well to answer your question about psilocybin I guarantee you the problem is defintiely the slurry of pharmas you've taken / are on and some unaddressed anxiety rather than from tripping. Going overboard can result in some HPPD tho and that can certainly be anxiety inducing and thus affect sleep that way. It's happened to me but I still kinda consider that unaddressed anxiety rather than any neurological change you may have thought happened from tripping, even frequently.
Shrooms never make me anxious except for maybe the comeup butterflies as soon as that's gone I actually feel amazing extremely confident, composed compassionate and in control no matter how high the dose. I actually get way more anxiety from weed.
I get the anxiety aspect but the only solution really for that is medication which most of which is addictive i.e the clonazepam. Mirtazipine however isn't addictive and supposedly can help with anxiety might just take a while longer to become effective also I'm detoxing off of the addictive pills so that probably isn't helping matters. I almost wanna dose on the shrooms to see if it will be beneficial but given all of what is going on in the brain already probably best to wait until I am sleeping soundly again.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913570 - 12/10/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The answer to the question in the title of your post is no.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: nooneman]
#23913601 - 12/10/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: The answer to the question in the title of your post is no.
I hope you are correct sir as I do love a good shroom trip.
LSD I can't stand seems to not agree with me always have moments where I questinon if I'll become a mental vegetable by the time the trip is over. Never have this with shrooms.
I may become delusional with heroic doses but that's half the fun isnt' it
Tried DMT - Haven't broken through yet my goal was to have a solid shroom trip again before really trying to break through. But have some spice in my safe and have a Glass Vapor Genie for whenever the time is right.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Headrush


Registered: 05/20/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913797 - 12/10/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have taken the escitalopram few years back and after a month I had extreme insomnia,hallucinations,muffled hearing in one ear,involentoty muscle movements then seizures. Serotonin syndrome can kill.
Serotonin can act similar to speed and hallucinogen. I put alot of faith in my doctors and they nearly killed me with the very drugs you mentioned above and opiates. Always used as prescribed but had so many side effects.
Also this is the reason your not able to trip. Please do yourself a favor and reconsider the pharmaceutical drugs. There are natural medicines that really work better.
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913940 - 12/10/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Weed and melatonin.
IME nothing works but weed, literally nothing.
Also it giving you anxiety is not an excuse. Just deal with it. I don't see why people can't just challenge the anxiety they face on cannabis. I just see it as a challenge.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/10/16 05:16 PM)
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LSDollar


Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 2,361
Loc: Up Up and Away
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23913953 - 12/10/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Short answer no.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23913956 - 12/10/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said: Hey,
So I'm currently going through one of the toughest times of my life. I've now had chronic insomnia for over a year.
It started like prior episodes I have had where I would wake up at 4am and then not be able to return to sleep I believe after a night of drinking but am not sure.
Last year I was doing a lot of shrooms mostly because they are my favorite drug by far but also when they work to 100% of their potential they are such a powerful anti depressant. They work better than any SSRI I've taken. Over the course of last summer I ended up doing them multiple times during a week period some times and did a 7 gram dose once last year and have a trip report on this very site about the trip( Was amazing).
Over the next few months as my insomnia returned I resorted to sleeping pills mainly Clonazepam and zopliclone and then would try and dose every month or so on shrooms to try and battle my depression but it seemed that I had developed long term tolerance to the shrooms for some reason even waiting 3 months I still could not have a full on trip dosing on an 1/8 or 5 grams only partial trips.
My insomnia has been getting worse and worse over the past 8 months to the point I lost my job due to calling in sick as I was going days at a time being unable to sleep, in fact went a full 8 days at one point being unable to sleep even a minute, my mind started falling apart and I ended up at the hospital, they gave me more clonazepam which would allow me to sleep at first taking 2 x 0.5mg of it, but then the effect wore off and sustaining would mean raising dose to 1.5mg, eventually this dose didn't help me any longer. Zopliclone stopped working as well, my doctor then put me on escitalopram( Lexapro) thinking that depression was causing my insomnia. After 2 months my sleep still didn't return, so he put me on Zoloft which made the insomnia even worse and I can't seem to get even an hour of sleep any longer.
Just recently started taking mirtazapine after hearing how good it was for sleep has been 4 days since I started to take it and although I do feel sleepier at bed time it's not enough to knock me out, I seem to be only capable of being in this weird dream awareness state where I dream but it feels like I'm awake.
Sorry to drag on here but obviously I am very concerned as to why my sleep won't return and I can't get the deep restorative sleep a person needs, I'm starting to worry that my shroom use has damaged some sort of receptor and that perhaps I may never be able to sleep normally again. Has anyone heard of this?
My alternate theory is that my brain is just so used to always have some sort of sedative to sleep be it booze, a sleeping pill or weed to sleep for so long that in the absence it doesn't create the chemicals needed to sleep naturally any longer. Because of this I've been tapering myself off of the clonazepam only taking 0.75mg/day currently and am reducing the dose by 1/8 every two weeks. Also haven't drank in 7 weeks to try and rule out the booze and haven't smoked weed in 7 weeks either.
Man not being able to sleep is the worst torture you can imagine all I want is to have my life back and be able to work and focus and not feel ill all the time I'm lost and my doctor just doesn't seem to have the answers for me. I'm just really worried that I caused the damage and it's irreparable now...
If anyone else out there has any insight it would be great.
I recommend Clonadine for sleep.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Headrush]
#23914076 - 12/10/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Headrush said: I have taken the escitalopram few years back and after a month I had extreme insomnia,hallucinations,muffled hearing in one ear,involentoty muscle movements then seizures. Serotonin syndrome can kill.
Serotonin can act similar to speed and hallucinogen. I put alot of faith in my doctors and they nearly killed me with the very drugs you mentioned above and opiates. Always used as prescribed but had so many side effects.
Also this is the reason your not able to trip. Please do yourself a favor and reconsider the pharmaceutical drugs. There are natural medicines that really work better.
I haven't being doing any shrooms since I started using escitalopram. Last time I did them was in July when I was not on any antidepressants and they just weren't working so decided likely needed an extended break. I don't know though if using sleeping pills also interfers with the same receptors that allow you to trip, I thought they just work on your GABA receptors but I'm no doctor.
In the past I have taken regular citalopram and I was able to trip on shrooms just fine, MDMA however didn't work at all.
I've been reading good things about Mirtazipine as it's a serotonin agonist doesn't work by prohibiting the reuptake creates fresh serotonin instead of recycling older serotonin, I'm hoping after a while it may help with the sleep. I'm slowing weaning off the escitalopram, doctor started me on 20mg which I thought was ridiculous seen as I was only on 20mg of Citalopram years ago and escitalopram is supposedly twice as strong.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Headrush


Registered: 05/20/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23915365 - 12/11/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe the sleeping pills do affect ability to trip. My mother takes clonazepam and ambien and I gave her 2.5 and 3 gram doses of shrooms with no results other than few yawns.
I still believe the prescription drugs are most likely the cause of your problems. Mirtazapine is really fucked up drug as well. A friend of mine gained shit load of weight and diabetes after using it.
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Headrush]
#23915638 - 12/11/16 09:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Headrush said: Maybe the sleeping pills do affect ability to trip. My mother takes clonazepam and ambien and I gave her 2.5 and 3 gram doses of shrooms with no results other than few yawns.
Well duh.. Klonopin kills trips.
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Headrush


Registered: 05/20/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23915866 - 12/11/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I took valium for years and tripped regularly. Ambien would be possible to interfere.
Aurora borealis you are a dick. I am tired of reading your smartass posts.
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Headrush]
#23915880 - 12/11/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well thank you.
Seriously though people take it to end trips.
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Headrush


Registered: 05/20/16
Posts: 338
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23915892 - 12/11/16 10:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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benzodiazepines make trips easier,they don't end them. Only time ends trips.
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Headrush] 1
#23915894 - 12/11/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol okay bro
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Ancestoralbeings
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Headrush]
#23916061 - 12/11/16 11:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Headrush said: benzodiazepines make trips easier,they don't end them. Only time ends trips.
That definitely is not true or a good mixture.
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Lucid Dreamer
Stranger
Registered: 12/03/16
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Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
#23916089 - 12/11/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You would be impressed if you knew sometimes insomnia problems can be solved simply using earplugs and eyemask
Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/11/16 11:51 AM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
#23916488 - 12/11/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Dreamer said: You would be impressed if you knew sometimes insomnia problems can be solved simply using earplugs and eyemask
I'll give it a shot although have my doubts as when I am sleeping normally nothing really wakes me up just time, but maybe just maybe it could help I'll give it a go.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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egobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23916544 - 12/11/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.
There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.
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DerPda
Stranger

Registered: 05/12/15
Posts: 159
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: egobrain]
#23916724 - 12/11/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. I would cut off the drug use completely for a longer period (like 1 year) to allow your brain to go back to normal. 2. Your depression needs treatment, since it can cause insomnia. 3. Cooling your frontal cortex before going to bed (use migrane head wraps) can help. 4. Do sports to the max and power out your body. 5. Improve your habbits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene). 6. Best wishes and get well soon.
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Lucid Dreamer
Stranger
Registered: 12/03/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
#23918419 - 12/12/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's really conforting, even when it's completely dark and silent I can't sleep well without using earplugs and eyemask. The orange earplugs are the best for sleeping.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 12 hours
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
#23918652 - 12/12/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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Ancestoralbeings
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
#23918888 - 12/12/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Meditate for like 30 minutes and try to astral project, you'll probably fall asleep while trying to astral project. If not, that's cool anyways!
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ergoticmandala



Registered: 06/03/15
Posts: 1,256
Last seen: 4 years, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
#23918943 - 12/12/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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yu should get off the prescribed medicine and if ur in a legal weed state get some indica bud and smoke that before sleeping, also melatonin works great with little side effects
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 12 hours
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23919015 - 12/12/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Going of the OP I really dont think he would be wise to use cannabis at all. Some people should avoid it like the plauge and from everything he said I think the OP fits that particular profile very well.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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brainysmurf
Stranger
Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
#23919127 - 12/12/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Have you tried any cannabis edibles or cannacaps instead of smoking? Easy to make and with the right strain and dose they will couch lock and/or put you to sleep. Worth a shot if you havent tried them yet. Digesting is very different than smoking.
Edit: The above poster might be right on avoiding cannabis if your in a state where it worsens things.
Edited by brainysmurf (12/12/16 10:46 AM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: egobrain]
#23919402 - 12/12/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
egobrain said: Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.
There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.
Yeah there are tons of dispensaries open where I live without need for a script. The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such. Docs think anxiety is the cause of my insomnia, I'm thinking insomnia is the cause of my anxiety it freaks you out to go weeks on end without fully knowing you were unconscious and asleep. Literally feels like I'm awake every night yet drifting to a dream/wake state it's so odd.
It's like I'm stuck in Stage 1 sleep/REM always no deeper than that unless of course I drink my face off and pass out and that obviously leads to it's own demons.
Maybe I'll try a CBD strain with minimal THC content have tried that before though. Weed used to help a great deal with sleep but I've become tolerant to it's sedative properties as well. I was reading mirtazapine reviews and they all seemed to say it made them feel so sedated and out of it when they first started taking it and they all for the most part slept like babies. I am only feeling mild sedation from it nothing significant at all. It's like my brain is just tolerant to sedation itself it's really pissing me off at this point. This can't be good for my vital organs to be deprived of restorative sleep.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
#23919425 - 12/12/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?
I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.
Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.
I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.
I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.
No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
#23919432 - 12/12/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DerPda said: 1. I would cut off the drug use completely for a longer period (like 1 year) to allow your brain to go back to normal. 2. Your depression needs treatment, since it can cause insomnia. 3. Cooling your frontal cortex before going to bed (use migrane head wraps) can help. 4. Do sports to the max and power out your body. 5. Improve your habbits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene). 6. Best wishes and get well soon.
Hey thanks for the input I haven't tried the migraine head wraps before maybe I could try that. My Dad told me about some remedy of putting an ice cube on the spot between the bone in the back of your head and the start of your neck it's apparently an acupuncture spot, when I tried that funnily was the first night going without any hours of sleep even with clonazepam could have just been a coincidence as it also was when I was starting to not take escitalopram and took 400mg of magnesium as well as I heard that helped...nope.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: brainysmurf]
#23919441 - 12/12/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
brainysmurf said: Have you tried any cannabis edibles or cannacaps instead of smoking? Easy to make and with the right strain and dose they will couch lock and/or put you to sleep. Worth a shot if you havent tried them yet. Digesting is very different than smoking.
Edit: The above poster might be right on avoiding cannabis if your in a state where it worsens things.
I developed tolerance to weed and weed itself being smoked makes me anxious which is an anti sleep mechanism, edibles deliver twice the high if not more than smoking so I would assume that would only make me even more anxious. I'm not one of the lucky one where weed relaxes them I was only ever using it recently because it used to help me sleep but seen as it doesn't help me sleep and only creates anxiety I don't think it's a good option anymore.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23919480 - 12/12/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said: The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such.
Edibles don't really give anxiety like smoking does. Smoking is completely different, smoking is what causes derealization, depersonalization, anxiety, paranoia, ect. I've never gotten any of that from edibles, sure edibles could give you anxiety and panic if you overdose but that's the case with every drug. I think you're just assuming too much.
Also it's all about dose, fuck the strain because it's the dosage, tolerance and method you're using that will determine what effects you will get. If you get anxious from weed just lower the dose. People are pretty naive when it comes to finding the right dose for THC. They think all doses and methods will do the same thing to them just more or less intense when couldn't be further from the truth.
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wolf8312
Pennywise


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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23919500 - 12/12/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is it possible dude that your are an addict? And suffering WEQuote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?
I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.
Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.
I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.
I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.
No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.
Why even drink coffee if you have insomnia?
You need to get off absolutely everything IMO. I think initially you got addicted to all sorts of things but now it seems its just a vicious circle and self fulfilling prophecy that you are locked into. I think you're an addict though right? Is that not the root cause of the problem?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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egobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23919611 - 12/12/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
egobrain said: Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.
There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.
Yeah there are tons of dispensaries open where I live without need for a script. The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such. Docs think anxiety is the cause of my insomnia, I'm thinking insomnia is the cause of my anxiety it freaks you out to go weeks on end without fully knowing you were unconscious and asleep. Literally feels like I'm awake every night yet drifting to a dream/wake state it's so odd.
It's like I'm stuck in Stage 1 sleep/REM always no deeper than that unless of course I drink my face off and pass out and that obviously leads to it's own demons.
Maybe I'll try a CBD strain with minimal THC content have tried that before though. Weed used to help a great deal with sleep but I've become tolerant to it's sedative properties as well. I was reading mirtazapine reviews and they all seemed to say it made them feel so sedated and out of it when they first started taking it and they all for the most part slept like babies. I am only feeling mild sedation from it nothing significant at all. It's like my brain is just tolerant to sedation itself it's really pissing me off at this point. This can't be good for my vital organs to be deprived of restorative sleep.
For whats its worth, someone I know has a rescue dog that suffers from PTSD. They started giving it a dose of CBD twice a day and she has calmed down considerably and will actually sleep through the night now. More studies need to be done on the effectiveness of cannabis as medicine.
All the best to you man.
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DerPda
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Registered: 05/12/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23920306 - 12/12/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Meh, I fucked up the quote. Doesnt matter...
The idea of using those headwraps to induce sleep is kinda new. Our research department for psychosomatic medicine has resently a study going. The idea is, that depression causes permanent stress and workload for the frontal cortex, which heats the tissue and hinders sleep. We want to know, whether cooling helps to reduce tissue temperature and therewith stress. This could result in an improved ability to fall asleep. Like I said, we dont have the data yet, but there is some evidence from 2 previous studies. It could help and if not, its at least worth a try.
When you describe your feelings, when going to bed (increased heart rate, axiety, etc.) this sounds like a conditioned fear. You are afraid of not being able to sleep and the surroundings (all those stimuli like the bed etc.) trigger this fear as soon as you enter "sleep mode". You could try to change these stimuli to break the conditioning.
Still, your problem sounds very serious from a psychological perspective and will be hard to solve. You will need patience, discipline and a lot of effort.
Edited by DerPda (12/12/16 05:01 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
#23920631 - 12/12/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Is it possible dude that your are an addict? And suffering WEQuote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
wolf8312 said: I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?
I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.
Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.
I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.
I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.
No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.
Why even drink coffee if you have insomnia?
You need to get off absolutely everything IMO. I think initially you got addicted to all sorts of things but now it seems its just a vicious circle and self fulfilling prophecy that you are locked into. I think you're an addict though right? Is that not the root cause of the problem?
I ask myself at times if it's the withdrawal from the clonazepam that started this vicious cycle of insomnia in the first place I just quit cold turkey and drank more to help with the increased anxiety after coming off them and then mid week when I had to work just switched to zopliclone to sleep as I just couldn't unless I drank and obviously couldn't mid week. Then quit those cold turkey and nothing would let me sleep other than more clonazepam.
am weaning off clonazepam but that likely is only going to to make things worse and i'm just exhausted at this point.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Ancestoralbeings
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
#23921960 - 12/13/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DerPda said: Meh, I fucked up the quote. Doesnt matter...
The idea of using those headwraps to induce sleep is kinda new. Our research department for psychosomatic medicine has resently a study going. The idea is, that depression causes permanent stress and workload for the frontal cortex, which heats the tissue and hinders sleep. We want to know, whether cooling helps to reduce tissue temperature and therewith stress. This could result in an improved ability to fall asleep. Like I said, we dont have the data yet, but there is some evidence from 2 previous studies. It could help and if not, its at least worth a try.
When you describe your feelings, when going to bed (increased heart rate, axiety, etc.) this sounds like a conditioned fear. You are afraid of not being able to sleep and the surroundings (all those stimuli like the bed etc.) trigger this fear as soon as you enter "sleep mode". You could try to change these stimuli to break the conditioning.
Still, your problem sounds very serious from a psychological perspective and will be hard to solve. You will need patience, discipline and a lot of effort.
68 degrees is the ideal external temperature to sleep in.
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Tiamo
Trust in LITFA




Registered: 04/07/16
Posts: 1,935
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 9 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
#23922020 - 12/13/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK, here's what you should do.
Lay off the drugs, don't even drink caffeine or alcohol. Get a good dinner in you, with a nice tall glass of water. Brush your teeth, do whatever. Get yourself comfortable, read a book in a quiet, semi dark-ish room half an hour before bed, no electrical appliances. Take some melatonin, ~1 mg, natural sleep hormone. Dim all the lights in your room, close your door, close the blinds, completely dark, don't have your phone in the same room. It helps if the room is cold. Lay down with an eye mask and ear plugs on your back, meditate, count back from a hundred, or count up, whatever, quieten your thoughts. You will fall asleep within minutes. Really really fast. This regime has gotten me through the worst insomniac episodes.
The only time it doesn't work is when I'm anxious, and I start thinking about monsters or whatever and throw off my eye mask and panic. It happens sometimes.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
Edited by Tiamo (12/13/16 09:25 AM)
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Get Shwifty
I love you guys



Registered: 10/14/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Tiamo]
#23922048 - 12/13/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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exercise and melatonin
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Tiamo
Trust in LITFA




Registered: 04/07/16
Posts: 1,935
Loc: Amsterdam
Last seen: 9 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Get Shwifty]
#23922076 - 12/13/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The melatonin is really the key in this. When you take it every day for a few weeks at the same time in the same dark room and don't let anything distract you, after a while the body starts to produce melatonin at that exact same time all by itself and you don't need to supplement anymore.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Tiamo]
#23922425 - 12/13/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: OK, here's what you should do.
Lay off the drugs, don't even drink caffeine or alcohol. Get a good dinner in you, with a nice tall glass of water. Brush your teeth, do whatever. Get yourself comfortable, read a book in a quiet, semi dark-ish room half an hour before bed, no electrical appliances. Take some melatonin, ~1 mg, natural sleep hormone. Dim all the lights in your room, close your door, close the blinds, completely dark, don't have your phone in the same room. It helps if the room is cold. Lay down with an eye mask and ear plugs on your back, meditate, count back from a hundred, or count up, whatever, quieten your thoughts. You will fall asleep within minutes. Really really fast. This regime has gotten me through the worst insomniac episodes.
The only time it doesn't work is when I'm anxious, and I start thinking about monsters or whatever and throw off my eye mask and panic. It happens sometimes. 
Ive tried even the 10mg melatonin pills and they don't help me sleep anymore. The other stuff I'm doing just over the past couple of days. Just feels like I lay there eyes closed drifting between a half awake but half in a dream like state. No day dreaming but actual dreams that it feels like I'm awake for.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Tiamo
Trust in LITFA




Registered: 04/07/16
Posts: 1,935
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23922463 - 12/13/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Melatonin in high doses just works counter productive... Less is more. Too much and your body doesn't even make it itself anymore.
--------------------
If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
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DerPda
Stranger

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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
#23923155 - 12/13/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ancestoralbeings said:
68 degrees is the ideal external temperature to sleep in.
It´s not about cooling the whole body, just the frontal cortex.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Tiamo]
#23923491 - 12/13/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: Melatonin in high doses just works counter productive... Less is more. Too much and your body doesn't even make it itself anymore.
Dude I've tried 1, 3 and 10mg melatonin that shit is for people with temporary insomnia not chronic like mine. Trust me the shit actually makes more alert than anything. Ingested melatonin just doesn't have the same action long term as melatonin created in the brain. Benadryl and any other kind of over the counter stuff also does not help me.
I think my brain is tolerant to sedatives period seeing as mirtazapine makes most people Ko'd for the first week they take it for me it's just mild drowsiness. 7.5mg of Zopliclone doesn't do anything either.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Shroomyhead
Stranger



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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23923709 - 12/13/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Humans are really suggestible. Something that may not work but is worth a try is before you go to sleep, laying in bed or whatever, just keep telling yourself out loud, "I will fall asleep tonight. I will fall asleep tonight. I will fall asleep tonight." Imagine that actual sentence in your mind too as you recite it. Tell that to yourself 50 or 100 times, however many times you want. Really focus on your mind accepting the fact of reality that you WILL fall asleep tonight. If you accept it as something that will undoubtedly happen, it might work. It might not, but I figured that it's worth a shot.
-------------------- There's only one way to find out.
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Shroomyhead]
#23923797 - 12/13/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomyhead said: Humans are really suggestible. Something that may not work but is worth a try is before you go to sleep, laying in bed or whatever, just keep telling yourself out loud, "I will fall asleep tonight. I will fall asleep tonight. I will fall asleep tonight." Imagine that actual sentence in your mind too as you recite it. Tell that to yourself 50 or 100 times, however many times you want. Really focus on your mind accepting the fact of reality that you WILL fall asleep tonight. If you accept it as something that will undoubtedly happen, it might work. It might not, but I figured that it's worth a shot.
I think that will just impede sleep more than anything. People say the best way to fall asleep is to not think about it or try to stay awake.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23923815 - 12/13/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've heard jacking off to some midget porn then immediately hit the showers followed by a solid 15 minutes of cardio on the pogo stick really helps with insomnia....
If not that then perhaps alternate winking for 15 minutes followed by a jello bath and then immediately rinse off shake yourself with talcum powder till you resemble a ghost and roll 2 1/2 times to your left and you'll sleep like a baby...
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
Edited by Dabrit (12/13/16 06:56 PM)
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23923844 - 12/13/16 07:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I really just can't think of anything nearly as reliable as alcohol or weed. I'll say this again, edibles don't cause paranoia and anxiety usually that's just when weed is smoked. Even vaporized weed is not nearly as anxious as smoked.
And when it comes to those vape pens that use CO2 oil they're so mild I can't even imagine how anyone would get anxious from that stuff. You're assuming all forms of THC would make you anxious when really only the popular methods of administration cause anxiety, derealization, ect.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/13/16 07:02 PM)
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PsychoKinesiS
Alien Resources Manager
Registered: 08/05/11
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23924270 - 12/13/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Insomnia is one of the most common and obvious side effects of psychedelics. If there is nothing else, then there is insomnia (which causes other issues).
However, psychedelics don't cause insomnia by "damaging" receptors. It just changes them in a functional way by upgrading/downgrading different serotonin receptors and changing the way you think so you don't get in the normal state you are in when you are relaxed and ready to sleep. This can be easily reversed with absitenence.
If you then treat your insomnia or trip comedowns with benzos or ambien then you also downregulate or damage your GABA receptors. This is when the major psychological issues start - anxiety, depression, psychosis, suicide, when both systems are down. Gaba and serotonin are supposed to act like failsafes for one another. I would not recommend that a user of psychedelics ever touch a benzo unless it is to save their life.
Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/13/16 09:27 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23924340 - 12/13/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said: I really just can't think of anything nearly as reliable as alcohol or weed. I'll say this again, edibles don't cause paranoia and anxiety usually that's just when weed is smoked. Even vaporized weed is not nearly as anxious as smoked.
And when it comes to those vape pens that use CO2 oil they're so mild I can't even imagine how anyone would get anxious from that stuff. You're assuming all forms of THC would make you anxious when really only the popular methods of administration cause anxiety, derealization, ect.
No I've done edibles and they make me twice as paranoid and it lasts way longer too. Not everyone has the same neurochemistry for a lot of people weed makes them relax and helps with anxiety for me the opposite is true. I handle 7 grams of mushrooms better than I do smoking a joint to myself.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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PsychoKinesiS
Alien Resources Manager
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23924350 - 12/13/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your biggest problem right now is probably not the completely safe drug that you used to take once per week. It is more likely the multiple psychiatric drugs that you are currently taking every day, which have all been medically studied to have a whole host of derogatory long term side effects. I would talk to your psychiatrist about weaning off of them, while abstaining from all drugs and taking a holistic nutrition based approach to managing sleep.
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Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/13/16 09:30 PM)
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Dabrit



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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
#23924357 - 12/13/16 09:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said: Insomnia is one of the most common and obvious side effects of psychedelics. If there is nothing else, then there is insomnia (which causes other issues).
However, psychedelics don't cause insomnia by "damaging" receptors. It just changes them in a functional way by upgrading/downgrading different serotonin receptors and changing the way you think so you don't get in the normal state you are in when you are relaxed and ready to sleep. This can be easily reversed with absitenence.
If you then treat your insomnia or trip comedowns with benzos or ambien then you also downregulate or damage your GABA receptors. This is when the major psychological issues start - anxiety, depression, psychosis, suicide, when both systems are down. Gaba and serotonin are supposed to act like failsafes for one another. I would not recommend that a user of psychedelics ever touch a benzo unless it is to save their life.
No I get that the trip itself from psychedelics causes insomnia, obviously mush or acid will not let you sleep until hours after consuming them. I've never taken benzos to come down off of mushrooms or anything else.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
#23924373 - 12/13/16 09:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said: Your biggest problem right now is probably not the completely safe drug that you used to take once per week. It is more likely the multiple psychiatric drugs that you are currently taking every day, which have all been medically studied to have a whole host of derogatory long term side effects. I would talk to your psychiatrist about weaning off of them, while abstaining from all drugs and taking a holistic nutrition based approach to managing sleep.
Like I said I'm weaning off the addictive benzo( Clonazepam), anti depressants aren't addictive and my initial insomnia was likely caused by either stress or depression so I do think treating it with something is a good idea. It's not like you get hooked on any kind of Serotonin agonist or reuptake inhibitor. They just correct a chemical imbalance which usually is the cause of your depression i.e low serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.
I also was drinking too much for a while which likely didn't help matters as I started relying on it to pass out. I stopped for 7 weeks and since will only have 1 drink or two max so I'm not relying on it's sedative effects to sleep.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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PsychoKinesiS
Alien Resources Manager
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23924400 - 12/13/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're currently weaning off a benzo that would perfectly explain your current insomnia. You are going to be in an extra gaba-negative state until months after you've completed your weaning. But it'll be worth it.
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Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/13/16 09:47 PM)
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Dabrit



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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
#23924414 - 12/13/16 09:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PsychoKinesiS said: If you're currently weaning off a benzo that would perfectly explain your current insomnia. You are going to be in an extra gaba-negative state until months after you've completed your weaning. But it'll be worth it.
FUCK....not exactly what I wanted to hear. I don't anyone can go literally months and not sleep though I'm pretty sure you die. So hopefully this weird half dreaming half awake shit I've got going on does just enough to keep my alive until my body functions again.
Why the hell aren't doctors discussing just how serious these anti anxiety/ sleeping pills are and the long term detriment they can cause is beyond me.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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PsychoKinesiS
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23924446 - 12/13/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't mean you would never sleep for 3 months. You should wean slowly enough that you can still get some sleep. You might need the help of other (non-benzo) medications, vigorous exercise, meditation, accupuncture, therapy, CBT, diet, better sleeping conditions, etc. Once in a while you'll completely miss a night of sleep but the exhaustion will help you sleep on the following nights.
Psychiatry is mostly psuedoscientific quackery and the whole medical profession is either corrupt and/or incompetent when it comes to the side effects of medications even when asked. For instance nobody tells you that using anti-acids quickly causes anemia that fries your nervous system or causes kidney/heart failure.
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Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/13/16 10:01 PM)
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23924541 - 12/13/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edibles making you twice as paranoid? I find that very hard to believe. If edibles make you paranoid in anyway let alone more paranoid than smoked weed then you really need to cut your doses down.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23925577 - 12/14/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said: Edibles making you twice as paranoid? I find that very hard to believe. If edibles make you paranoid in anyway let alone more paranoid than smoked weed then you really need to cut your doses down.
Lololol. Man let it go on the edibles thing I know what I'm doing with dosage even a 10mg brownie gives me anxiety. I know my body and what feels good and doesn't feel good. Feel like you're the dope pusher man. Also I don't like the idea of my brain having f to rely on sedation to sleep.
My brain should be creating it's own chemicals that allows this to take place. I think abstinence from all sedative drugs may be the only way I can properly recover. It has been shown that dope smokers who used every day when they stopped using also have issues with temporary insomnia. This is for a reason, likely psychological dependance.
I have realized that until things return to normal getting drunk is not an option either. A drink or two with dinner sure anything more than that should be a no-no. I've started meditation using the headspace app just before bedtime. Does seem to relax me a bit so I shall keep that going. I have always been one to Exercise and will try to hit the gym 5 times per week even if my energy is complete shit from not sleeping. No TV an hour before bed and sleep with an eye mask. I find the ear plugs bother my ears so won't be using those. Plus I find the sound of my fan soothing anyways.
Trying to keep my mind active and positive just started to new projects on agar as my new PE and GT syringes arrived. By the time they are done fruiting it will have been over 7 Mo the since I last dosed on mushrooms and I may consider a day trip, I'll likely need 4gs or so to get a nice trip who knows maybe that helps my situation I doubt it would hinder it.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925595 - 12/14/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said: Feel like you're the dope pusher man. Also I don't like the idea of my brain having f to rely on sedation to sleep.
Dope pusher? Lmfao shut the fuck up. I'm saying that because that's obviously the only thing that works for most people and I've never met a single person in my life who got "more anxious" from edibles and I still think it's total BS but let's assume it's not...
You don't want to rely on chemicals to sleep? Well sorry but that's how real life works.
I don't know anyone who's sober who can comfortably fall asleep consistently. Before drugs I would never be able to fall asleep. It isn't about relying on things because it's always been that way. Not saying it's impossible but if you really want to fall asleep without the use of drugs you're gonna have to do A LOT more than the average person. You're gonna have to work out, possibly meditate and all this other shit. You're the one with insomnia bro not me.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 11:08 AM)
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925656 - 12/14/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sorry but I refuse to give a politically correct answer simply because it may sound morally correct on the surface. I'm not superficial. It's easy to call someone a drug pusher because of that but it's not easy for people to shape up and use logic. I'm being objective about it not a pusher because if there was an option out there better than THC or even almost as good believe me I would have said it, if I gave you a politically correct answer just because it "sounds correct" that wouldn't be objective thinking.
People don't know how to be objective they'd rather bathe in politically correct delusions and you know what? I see that more on this site than ANYWHERE else. People "trying" to be mature or morally intelligent but in reality they're too lazy to think for themselves so they say something that other conditioned human beings can agree on. Clichès on top of more clichès.
Also relying on weed to fall asleep is not a psychological dependance it's a physical dependence. You have cannabinoids in you so yes you kind of need them. What about CBD weed? Cannabinoids are like a vitamin brother, if you don't have enough you get deficiencies.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 11:30 AM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23925744 - 12/14/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dope pusher? Lmfao shut the fuck up. I'm saying that because that's obviously the only thing that works for most people and I've never met a single person in my life who got "more anxious" from edibles and I still think it's total BS but let's assume it's not...
You don't want to rely on chemicals to sleep? Well sorry but that's how real life works.
I don't know anyone who's sober who can comfortably fall asleep consistently. Before drugs I would never be able to fall asleep. It isn't about relying on things because it's always been that way. Not saying it's impossible but if you really want to fall asleep without the use of drugs you're gonna have to do A LOT more than the average person. You're gonna have to work out, possibly meditate and all this other shit. You're the one with insomnia bro not me.
Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said: Sorry but I refuse to give a politically correct answer simply because it may sound morally correct on the surface. I'm not superficial. It's easy to call someone a drug pusher because of that but it's not easy for people to shape up and use logic. I'm being objective about it not a pusher because if there was an option out there better than THC or even almost as good believe me I would have said it, if I gave you a politically correct answer just because it "sounds correct" that wouldn't be objective thinking.
People don't know how to be objective they'd rather bathe in politically correct delusions and you know what? I see that more on this site than ANYWHERE else. People "trying" to be mature or morally intelligent but in reality they're too lazy to think for themselves so they say something that other conditioned human beings can agree on. Clichès on top of more clichès.
Also relying on weed to fall asleep is not a psychological dependance it's a physical dependence. You have cannabinoids in you so yes you kind of need them. What about CBD weed? Cannabinoids are like a vitamin brother, if you don't have enough you get deficiencies.
Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said:
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Dabrit said: Feel like you're the dope pusher man. Also I don't like the idea of my brain having f to rely on sedation to sleep.
Hey man relax I said " you sound like a drug pusher" I'm not saying you are one. I just know myself well enough to know what makes me feel a certain way etc. I've been a weed smoker since I was 16 and have tried edibles a bunch of times and never enjoy the experience at all. A lab tested West Coast Teddy caused me to have severe anxiety and paranoia and I was hallucinating off the 25mg dose. I then tried just a half and still too much anxiety to be worth it. I like to use chemicals that make me feel good i.e 1. Psilocybin, 2. MDA 3. MDMA sometimes Acid can be cool but mostly I find it fucks me up too much lacks euphoria and generally makes me question if I'll be sane by the time the trip is over.
I've heard DMT can give you the best sleep of your life if you have a breakthrough experience however I just too scared to go too deep with something like that when I do feel completely right due to the sleep deprivation.
I just hope I come out the other side of this sooner rather than later.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925754 - 12/14/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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CBD
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 12:04 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23925784 - 12/14/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said: CBD
Yeah tried that also makes me feel stimulated doesn't help with sleep. Weed is beneficial for peoples insomnia hasn't been on going for long periods of time I think but once it has become chronic I don't think it's beneficial at least it wasn't for me.
As others have said on here I may have GABA receptor damage from the sleeping pills that has caused this then coming off of them has probably added additional factor which are not enabling me to sleep. I must be micro sleeping though as it's been over two weeks now since I can remember any unconscious sleep and in that time period you'd figure I'd be going full psychotic by now and having hallucinations and would be incapable of being to post anything online.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925804 - 12/14/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you workout often or regularly? Sorry if you already said this.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23926432 - 12/14/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I try to. Obviously when it feels like you're not sleeping at all it obviously makes it difficult I aim for 5 times per week often pans out being 3-4 times though.
I go for two days straight cardio intense run usually for 30 minutes and other days combine circuit training with strength training.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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ergoticmandala



Registered: 06/03/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929485 - 12/15/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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so man, ur gunna ween off the pharma junk and start taking some more benign sleep aids seems the best solution best of luck, ur profile pic is
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23929597 - 12/15/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ergoticmandala said: so man, ur gunna ween off the pharma junk and start taking some more benign sleep aids seems the best solution best of luck, ur profile pic is 
Shit just went from bad to worse. Am now tapering off Lexapro from 10mg per day down to 5mg and getting extreme agitation and burning skin feeling also now feels like my sleep is even worse which I didn't think was possible seeing as I basically feel like I'm not getting any unconscious sleep at all in over two weeks just that half asleep half dreaming shit..but last night just felt wide awake and alert.
So over this nonsense, get a voicemail from the sleep specialist in Vancouver saying they can't see me until August 21st next year what in the actual fuck.
ps thanks for the props on the avatar. I actually switched mine from Hunter S Thompson as a user messaged me saying I stole theirs...you know because somehow I would know what every single user on here has as their avatar lol. But alas to keep peace I changed it.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
Edited by Dabrit (12/15/16 02:31 PM)
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Tiamo
Trust in LITFA




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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929630 - 12/15/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You say that when you lay down in bed you never leave your hypnagogic state? Ouch, that sounds bad.
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If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Tiamo]
#23929659 - 12/15/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tiamo said: You say that when you lay down in bed you never leave your hypnagogic state? Ouch, that sounds bad.
Yeah I know and my doctor really doesn't seem to have answers for me and the sleep specialists can't see me until August next year.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929688 - 12/15/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said: Like I said I'm weaning off the addictive benzo( Clonazepam), anti depressants aren't addictive and my initial insomnia was likely caused by either stress or depression so I do think treating it with something is a good idea. It's not like you get hooked on any kind of Serotonin agonist or reuptake inhibitor. They just correct a chemical imbalance which usually is the cause of your depression i.e low serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.
I also was drinking too much for a while which likely didn't help matters as I started relying on it to pass out. I stopped for 7 weeks and since will only have 1 drink or two max so I'm not relying on it's sedative effects to sleep.
Anti-depressants are extremely addicting. They call it 'dependance' for marketing reasons, but anyone with half a brain can figure out it's the same thing. Do you go into withdrawals when stopping the medication? If so then that medication is addicting.
It's also entirely untrue that you have a 'chemical imbalance.' The fact is that no one actually knows why ssris even work and there has never been an observed 'chemical imbalance.' That was a theory that existed one time that was then told to patients as a fact which it was not, it has sense been disproven and is no longer even believed by the majority of the community. For that matter it's hotly debated whether they even DO work, I'm not convinced they do. It has been proven they're increase your chances of commuting suicide though to the point that they carry a black box warning of such right on the outside of the package. These are serious medications with major side effects and we don't even know how they work, depending who you ask we don't even know IF they work.
I personally think that is a terrible approach to begin with. Think about it. Say you have someone that is abused while growing up and then one day they're labelled as depressed. Instead of telling them that in their circumstances depression is a very natural response and that they should work on overcoming the psychological and socioeconomic issues that effect them they are told that all of that is okay, the problem is with YOU, there is something wrong with your brain. Everything else being the same is that remotely going to improve the situation? You've now convinced the person that not only is the problem inherent to them, but that it may well be a permanent part of themselves that they can't fix, but can instead learn to live with. I believe most pysche issues are very natural and would occur to anyone in the same circumstances, but it's easier to blame the issue on the person and give them a pill than it is to solve the problems that cause it, and it's a lot more profitable as well.
Edited by krypto2000 (12/15/16 03:04 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23929840 - 12/15/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
Dabrit said: Like I said I'm weaning off the addictive benzo( Clonazepam), anti depressants aren't addictive and my initial insomnia was likely caused by either stress or depression so I do think treating it with something is a good idea. It's not like you get hooked on any kind of Serotonin agonist or reuptake inhibitor. They just correct a chemical imbalance which usually is the cause of your depression i.e low serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.
I also was drinking too much for a while which likely didn't help matters as I started relying on it to pass out. I stopped for 7 weeks and since will only have 1 drink or two max so I'm not relying on it's sedative effects to sleep.
Anti-depressants are extremely addicting. They call it 'dependance' for marketing reasons, but anyone with half a brain can figure out it's the same thing. Do you go into withdrawals when stopping the medication? If so then that medication is addicting.
It's also entirely untrue that you have a 'chemical imbalance.' The fact is that no one actually knows why ssris even work and there has never been an observed 'chemical imbalance.' That was a theory that existed one time that was then told to patients as a fact which it was not, it has sense been disproven and is no longer even believed by the majority of the community. For that matter it's hotly debated whether they even DO work, I'm not convinced they do. It has been proven they're increase your chances of commuting suicide though to the point that they carry a black box warning of such right on the outside of the package. These are serious medications with major side effects and we don't even know how they work, depending who you ask we don't even know IF they work.
I personally think that is a terrible approach to begin with. Think about it. Say you have someone that is abused while growing up and then one day they're labelled as depressed. Instead of telling them that in their circumstances depression is a very natural response and that they should work on overcoming the psychological and socioeconomic issues that effect them they are told that all of that is okay, the problem is with YOU, there is something wrong with your brain. Everything else being the same is that remotely going to improve the situation? You've now convinced the person that not only is the problem inherent to them, but that it may well be a permanent part of themselves that they can't fix, but can instead learn to live with. I believe most pysche issues are very natural and would occur to anyone in the same circumstances, but it's easier to blame the issue on the person and give them a pill than it is to solve the problems that cause it, and it's a lot more profitable as well.
First I was having major insomnia before I started taking anti depressants again. In the past citalopram was very beneficial for me and did work for depression but there is always the risk during the first couple of weeks that the depression can get worse. Often people seem to read over that part of the warnings when they start taking them and stop because of it instead of toughing it out and then feeling better afterwards. This seems to happen more to the 25 and younger crowd which I'm not included in any longer. But I myself had dizziness and increased depression to start not suicidal thoughts but felt like shit for sure but I stabilized as promised by my doctor. When I took them previously though I didn't have insomnia issues just depression and anxiety.
I came off them in November of 2014 then worked a really stressful job that gave me insomnia and I started taking clonazepam just to sleep which always seemed superior to zopliclone or ambien for sleep. Problem with this was the doctor didn't explain just how seriously addictive they are and the repercussions for taking them. I quit cold turkey in January of this year not realizing how dangerous that was because it wasn't explained to me by the doctors I then just couldn't sleep properly anymore I'd go two nights of no sleep then maybe be tired enough to sleep 4-5 hours the next night this has just been getting worse since then and I've now had one stretch of 7 days with 0 hours of sleep then 8 days before finally being able to see my GP who thought depression was the underlying cause put me on escitalopram 20mg and put me back on clonazepam for the first month to deal with the side effects and help me sleep till the SSRI kicked in. The clonazepam helped at first again to sleep 6-7 hours per night but then after a while 1mg at bedtime wasn't enough so upped to 1.5mg..then after a month or so doctor says just stop taking that now and try amitriptyline which worked amazing first night, then not so good second night then just wouldn't work period and back to no nights sleep. Ended up going another 6 days with 0 hours sleep and was going nuts ended up at the psych ward who prescribed me clonazepam again which helped me sleep initially and then tolerance quickly built up and around and around we went. At this time I didn't know of a proper tapering schedule for benzos neither did my doctor apparently who just had me take 2 pills for 3 nights then down to 1 which is ridiculous as anyone who have been on benzos will tell you far too drastic of a taper.
After two months of escitalopram it became apparent that it was not going to help me sleep so we then switched to 50mg of Zoloft this is where things went from bad to worse I couldn't sleep even taking clonazepam at 2mg per night for a week so came off of that and have now switched to mirtazapine which I've been on for a week and a half it's supposed to be great for sleep with most people saying they get knocked out by the 15mg dose I however only feel mild sedation not nearly enough to knock me out, it can take two weeks or more though to be effective but I have my doubts. I'm supposed to up my dose to 30mg per day on Monday next week and taper down to 0mg of escitalopram on the same day...I think this taper of the escitalopram is too high as well. From what I've read tapers should be done every two weeks not weekly like my doctor is prescribing so I think I'll stay at 5mg/ day for an additional week.
I am just so tempted right now to drink my face off and smoke a ton of weed to just pass out...because that's how desperate I am to sleep it's miserable...but then I'll just likely start substituting benzos with booze for sleep and this won't help me long term...
I think I'm fucked and I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to sleep properly again.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929894 - 12/15/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow that sounds fucked man. I can't believe how irresponsible those drs are. Fuck. I don't know what caused your insomnia but those drugs definitely are not helping, especially the benzos. It seriously baffles me that anyone would prescribe a benzo for someone to sleep with, especially long term. Benzos are for acute anxiety, little more. I'll take a benzo to sleep if I literally have nothing else but even as a joe schmoe it's one of the last things I would take. I've never woken up from a benzo sleep and felt refreshed. Like alcohol they can make you pass out but they don't promote a good sleep, quite the opposite. Not to mention the side effects and extremely addicting nature of them which are one of the few drugs that can actually kill you from withdrawals. Those people should lose their medical license, jesus fuck.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23929925 - 12/15/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Wow that sounds fucked man. I can't believe how irresponsible those drs are. Fuck. I don't know what caused your insomnia but those drugs definitely are not helping, especially the benzos. It seriously baffles me that anyone would prescribe a benzo for someone to sleep with, especially long term. Benzos are for acute anxiety, little more. I'll take a benzo to sleep if I literally have nothing else but even as a joe schmoe it's one of the last things I would take. I've never woken up from a benzo sleep and felt refreshed. Like alcohol they can make you pass out but they don't promote a good sleep, quite the opposite. Not to mention the side effects and extremely addicting nature of them which are one of the few drugs that can actually kill you from withdrawals. Those people should lose their medical license, jesus fuck.
Not being able to sleep is the worst torture you can imagine long term...no matter how positive a mindset you try and have you will always just feel off. I'm for now going to try melatonin again for a solid week and smoke weed even though it makes me anxious cause I'm at my wits end.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23930150 - 12/15/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I think weed is fine. I don't think it's good to rely on it for sleep, but if you can't sleep otherwise you're doing a lot more damage than the likely minor issues that it would bring about. Did you say what originally caused the sleep issues or are you not sure? I can't remember now and I don't want to go reread the whole thread.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23930450 - 12/15/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Yeah, I think weed is fine. I don't think it's good to rely on it for sleep, but if you can't sleep otherwise you're doing a lot more damage than the likely minor issues that it would bring about. Did you say what originally caused the sleep issues or are you not sure? I can't remember now and I don't want to go reread the whole thread.
If I were to wager a guess it was the stressful job I was working at in the field of insurance plus I went through a break up in the fall of last year which is around the time I recall it starting. Initially waking up at 4am unable to sleep and then that turning into tossing and turning struggling to fall asleep..that's when I went to the medi center and requested some clonazepam...and then all hell broke loose. I was dosing a shit ton with mushrooms in 2015 as they seemed to let me regain focus in my life and shed the negativity and then everything was just starting to flow right..problem was I kept going even once I got into a very positive mind set and likely over did it and developed long term tolerance to shrooms( Haven't done any since July now)
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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PsychoKinesiS
Alien Resources Manager
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23959112 - 12/26/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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All Benzos and Z drugs are approved only for acute episodic or short term use up to 2 weeks and the labeling warns against use greater than 2 weeks. Anything else is off-label usage. Unfortunately, doctors are somehow allowed to prescribe whatever off-label usage they want, and they never warn the patient that there are any side effects whatsoever, when the side effect is ruining your life. They even deny the side effects if asked. They dont even know. What do they even teach these doctors in medical school? I dont know what is wrong with the world.
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Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/26/16 07:50 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
#23959151 - 12/26/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its more big pharma then the doctors. Most of doctors are informed by the drug companies about the drugs they prescribe, but many times they arent informed enough and alot is omitted about the drug and its side effects. And doctors dont just heal anymore...they have so much damn paper work and bureaucratic gov. bullshit and insurance bullshit they Have to deal with every single day for every single patient that they dont have the time they once had to do more research than what they learned in med school besides the occasional meeting or what have you - they are swamped.
Its also the individuals responsibility to not seek drugs to fix every little thing in life that troubles them, I mean our ancestors...think about them. Our society reaches for pills for everything from sniffly noses, to colds, to sleep meds, to little pain and big pain meds, drugs for when you eat to much, drugs for when you eat to little, drugs for when you sleep to much, drugs for when you sleep to little.
Drugs for when you think to much, drugs for when you think to little. Drugs for everything. Its up to the individual to be responsible for themselves ultimately. Mans greed got the best of him. Big Pharma and lobbyiests are much more responsible than Physicians as a whole. What is taught in med school is what they know. They are increidble and knowledgeable and very discerning when it comes to a healthy body and a diseased body. But now we medicate any given behaviour or lack ther of behaviour because it makes money and people are willing to take the short and easy way out because life is short and we no longer live close to natural...far from it.
Drugs are great for when you have a real sickness and a real organic illness like a bacterial or viral infection or a broken spine in 10 places or you have to get your appendix removed and need pain meds and anesthesia, antibiotics , some vaccines, etc - you know the legit stuff...besides that and some other legit conditions... we have been duped.
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 08:05 PM)
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totallylike
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23959160 - 12/26/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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valerian is an excellent sleep remedy with no hangover
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: totallylike]
#23959170 - 12/26/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Luckily the human body is extraordinarily resilient and can come back from disease - natural or self grown - ex. a drug dependence.
It just takes a long time - but it goes back to normal. I know first hand. But its like rebuilding the body the old way - like a kid growing and developing. Takes time, healthy living, good food, adequate rest and sleep, wake and sleep regularity, bowel movments regularly, no drugs unless its truly needed, adequate physical activity/exercise - and good social interaction/support.
Everything changes in nature with the seasons in 1 year - and your part of it - so why wouldnt you? But you got to let that brain heal, so no more drugs once you have tapered off or finished. It wont heal if you keep putting that shit in your system, its got to heal all the way naturally and it takes time for everything to become regular again...but it does , thank god.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23960381 - 12/27/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can report that in the past week things have significantly improved. I am taking mirtazapine at 30mg( non addictive antidepressant which I've been taking at night now for just over a week along with 1 x 0.5mg of clonazepam( evil drug I'm weaning off of) and my sleep appears to be coming back I'm now sleeping legit unconscious sleep for about 4.5 hours sometimes a little more sometimes a little less it seems to be getting better with each day. At the dose I'm taking of clonazepam there is no way it would be enough to provide sedative effects as I had previously been taking 3 to 4 times as much.
My mood, energy and sense of humor seem to be returning. I will continue my wean off of the gross benzos which I will never take again no matter what and perhaps try and get off mirtazapine in about 6 months after feeling like I have stabilized. I am going to the gym 5 times a week now and am making sure I don't gain weight in fact I'm losing weight and gaining muscle mass.
I'm no longer feeling like I'm losing my mind. I can now focus on my new projects I have on the go and not worry about mistakes being made.
Fingers crossed that things keep progressing in the right manner.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23960396 - 12/27/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Glad it's getting better Bro!
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,660
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: voodoochild1000]
#23960479 - 12/27/16 12:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its truly a marathon of patience when it comes to getting off of drugs that cause dependence. Unless you want cold turkey which is usually irresponsible and sometimes possibly deadly. Weening is the way to go, sure you'll have more waves of normal/not normal for longer - but your poor little brain will return to baseline slowly and surely and thank you for it in the long run in life. Good job mate . Takes guts to do what your doing, takes guts to go through with it and life without something to dull the anxieties and pain of life.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23960486 - 12/27/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
voodoochild1000 said: Glad it's getting better Bro!
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Its truly a marathon of patience when it comes to getting off of drugs that cause dependence. Unless you want cold turkey which is usually irresponsible and sometimes possibly deadly. Weening is the way to go, sure you'll have more waves of normal/not normal for longer - but your poor little brain will return to baseline slowly and surely and thank you for it in the long run in life. Good job mate . Takes guts to do what your doing, takes guts to go through with it and life without something to dull the anxieties and pain of life.
Thanks for the support guys this really has been a tough ordeal but I've tried to remain hopeful throughout and be mindful of not substituting one addiction for another. I.E never drinking more than 1 or two drinks max otherwise I would rely on alcohol to sleep it's still going to be months before I'm completely off the benzo's but with each and every day I'm getting closer to the light at the end of the tunnel.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23960604 - 12/27/16 01:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
Tiamo said: Melatonin in high doses just works counter productive... Less is more. Too much and your body doesn't even make it itself anymore.
Dude I've tried 1, 3 and 10mg melatonin that shit is for people with temporary insomnia not chronic like mine. Trust me the shit actually makes more alert than anything. Ingested melatonin just doesn't have the same action long term as melatonin created in the brain. Benadryl and any other kind of over the counter stuff also does not help me.
I think my brain is tolerant to sedatives period seeing as mirtazapine makes most people Ko'd for the first week they take it for me it's just mild drowsiness. 7.5mg of Zopliclone doesn't do anything either.
I used to take melatonin regularly to great effect, however now it gives me racing thoughts - the exact opposite of inducing sleep.
Im not sure if it's brand specific. I'm used Optimum Nutrition Melatonin last and ended up having to bin them.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23960756 - 12/27/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
Tiamo said: Melatonin in high doses just works counter productive... Less is more. Too much and your body doesn't even make it itself anymore.
Dude I've tried 1, 3 and 10mg melatonin that shit is for people with temporary insomnia not chronic like mine. Trust me the shit actually makes more alert than anything. Ingested melatonin just doesn't have the same action long term as melatonin created in the brain. Benadryl and any other kind of over the counter stuff also does not help me.
I think my brain is tolerant to sedatives period seeing as mirtazapine makes most people Ko'd for the first week they take it for me it's just mild drowsiness. 7.5mg of Zopliclone doesn't do anything either.
I used to take melatonin regularly to great effect, however now it gives me racing thoughts - the exact opposite of inducing sleep.
Im not sure if it's brand specific. I'm used Optimum Nutrition Melatonin last and ended up having to bin them.
Melatonin like anything else which is a sleep aid can become habit forming it is never meant to be taken regularly. If you take it too often your brain stops creating it's own melatonin thus making it counter intuitive. It's meant mainly to reset your circadian rhythm.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23960787 - 12/27/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:
Dabrit said:
Quote:
Tiamo said: Melatonin in high doses just works counter productive... Less is more. Too much and your body doesn't even make it itself anymore.
Dude I've tried 1, 3 and 10mg melatonin that shit is for people with temporary insomnia not chronic like mine. Trust me the shit actually makes more alert than anything. Ingested melatonin just doesn't have the same action long term as melatonin created in the brain. Benadryl and any other kind of over the counter stuff also does not help me.
I think my brain is tolerant to sedatives period seeing as mirtazapine makes most people Ko'd for the first week they take it for me it's just mild drowsiness. 7.5mg of Zopliclone doesn't do anything either.
I used to take melatonin regularly to great effect, however now it gives me racing thoughts - the exact opposite of inducing sleep.
Im not sure if it's brand specific. I'm used Optimum Nutrition Melatonin last and ended up having to bin them.
Melatonin like anything else which is a sleep aid can become habit forming it is never meant to be taken regularly. If you take it too often your brain stops creating it's own melatonin thus making it counter intuitive. It's meant mainly to reset your circadian rhythm.
I took it only once every few months so it wasn't a case of habit and natural shutdown.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23960796 - 12/27/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not sure then perhaps manufacturer could be a factor.
Also I've heard never to use more than 3mg. Some of the ones available go up to 10mg which is far too much.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23960801 - 12/27/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I thought the same when I seen the large doses.
Melatonin was introduced into the 'bodybuilding' and fitness market and with that, the desperate companies try to appeal to the egos of the consumers with huge, stated, unnecessary doses in a bid to outshine the competition.
I used 1mg and rarely 2mg.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23960839 - 12/27/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Melatonin is pretty safe. Ive taken 2-5mg a night for months and if I quit I don't have any sort of withdrawals or trouble going to sleep. I've taken doses in the range of 20-40mg too and didn't notice anything significant. It might stop working after awhile but that's about it.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



Registered: 10/08/12
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23960865 - 12/27/16 03:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Melatonin is pretty safe. Ive taken 2-5mg a night for months and if I quit I don't have any sort of withdrawals or trouble going to sleep. I've taken doses in the range of 20-40mg too and didn't notice anything significant. It might stop working after awhile but that's about it.
When it stops working, that's when you've got yourself a problem, especially if you find it necessary to do as much as 40mg.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
#23960921 - 12/27/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I spoke with a pharmacist about it they suggested not taking for lo her than a week. In that time period as long as you have been taking it at the same time and in perfect darkness your natural circadian rhythm should come back( barring any other medical conditions or addictions like my own story)
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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