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AuroraBorealis88
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925595 - 12/14/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dabrit said: Feel like you're the dope pusher man. Also I don't like the idea of my brain having f to rely on sedation to sleep.
Dope pusher? Lmfao shut the fuck up. I'm saying that because that's obviously the only thing that works for most people and I've never met a single person in my life who got "more anxious" from edibles and I still think it's total BS but let's assume it's not...
You don't want to rely on chemicals to sleep? Well sorry but that's how real life works.
I don't know anyone who's sober who can comfortably fall asleep consistently. Before drugs I would never be able to fall asleep. It isn't about relying on things because it's always been that way. Not saying it's impossible but if you really want to fall asleep without the use of drugs you're gonna have to do A LOT more than the average person. You're gonna have to work out, possibly meditate and all this other shit. You're the one with insomnia bro not me.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 11:08 AM)
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925656 - 12/14/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sorry but I refuse to give a politically correct answer simply because it may sound morally correct on the surface. I'm not superficial. It's easy to call someone a drug pusher because of that but it's not easy for people to shape up and use logic. I'm being objective about it not a pusher because if there was an option out there better than THC or even almost as good believe me I would have said it, if I gave you a politically correct answer just because it "sounds correct" that wouldn't be objective thinking.
People don't know how to be objective they'd rather bathe in politically correct delusions and you know what? I see that more on this site than ANYWHERE else. People "trying" to be mature or morally intelligent but in reality they're too lazy to think for themselves so they say something that other conditioned human beings can agree on. Clichès on top of more clichès.
Also relying on weed to fall asleep is not a psychological dependance it's a physical dependence. You have cannabinoids in you so yes you kind of need them. What about CBD weed? Cannabinoids are like a vitamin brother, if you don't have enough you get deficiencies.
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 11:30 AM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23925744 - 12/14/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dope pusher? Lmfao shut the fuck up. I'm saying that because that's obviously the only thing that works for most people and I've never met a single person in my life who got "more anxious" from edibles and I still think it's total BS but let's assume it's not...
You don't want to rely on chemicals to sleep? Well sorry but that's how real life works.
I don't know anyone who's sober who can comfortably fall asleep consistently. Before drugs I would never be able to fall asleep. It isn't about relying on things because it's always been that way. Not saying it's impossible but if you really want to fall asleep without the use of drugs you're gonna have to do A LOT more than the average person. You're gonna have to work out, possibly meditate and all this other shit. You're the one with insomnia bro not me.
Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said: Sorry but I refuse to give a politically correct answer simply because it may sound morally correct on the surface. I'm not superficial. It's easy to call someone a drug pusher because of that but it's not easy for people to shape up and use logic. I'm being objective about it not a pusher because if there was an option out there better than THC or even almost as good believe me I would have said it, if I gave you a politically correct answer just because it "sounds correct" that wouldn't be objective thinking.
People don't know how to be objective they'd rather bathe in politically correct delusions and you know what? I see that more on this site than ANYWHERE else. People "trying" to be mature or morally intelligent but in reality they're too lazy to think for themselves so they say something that other conditioned human beings can agree on. Clichès on top of more clichès.
Also relying on weed to fall asleep is not a psychological dependance it's a physical dependence. You have cannabinoids in you so yes you kind of need them. What about CBD weed? Cannabinoids are like a vitamin brother, if you don't have enough you get deficiencies.
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AuroraBorealis88 said:
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Dabrit said: Feel like you're the dope pusher man. Also I don't like the idea of my brain having f to rely on sedation to sleep.
Hey man relax I said " you sound like a drug pusher" I'm not saying you are one. I just know myself well enough to know what makes me feel a certain way etc. I've been a weed smoker since I was 16 and have tried edibles a bunch of times and never enjoy the experience at all. A lab tested West Coast Teddy caused me to have severe anxiety and paranoia and I was hallucinating off the 25mg dose. I then tried just a half and still too much anxiety to be worth it. I like to use chemicals that make me feel good i.e 1. Psilocybin, 2. MDA 3. MDMA sometimes Acid can be cool but mostly I find it fucks me up too much lacks euphoria and generally makes me question if I'll be sane by the time the trip is over.
I've heard DMT can give you the best sleep of your life if you have a breakthrough experience however I just too scared to go too deep with something like that when I do feel completely right due to the sleep deprivation.
I just hope I come out the other side of this sooner rather than later.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925754 - 12/14/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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CBD
Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/14/16 12:04 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23925784 - 12/14/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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AuroraBorealis88 said: CBD
Yeah tried that also makes me feel stimulated doesn't help with sleep. Weed is beneficial for peoples insomnia hasn't been on going for long periods of time I think but once it has become chronic I don't think it's beneficial at least it wasn't for me.
As others have said on here I may have GABA receptor damage from the sleeping pills that has caused this then coming off of them has probably added additional factor which are not enabling me to sleep. I must be micro sleeping though as it's been over two weeks now since I can remember any unconscious sleep and in that time period you'd figure I'd be going full psychotic by now and having hallucinations and would be incapable of being to post anything online.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23925804 - 12/14/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you workout often or regularly? Sorry if you already said this.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23926432 - 12/14/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I try to. Obviously when it feels like you're not sleeping at all it obviously makes it difficult I aim for 5 times per week often pans out being 3-4 times though.
I go for two days straight cardio intense run usually for 30 minutes and other days combine circuit training with strength training.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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ergoticmandala



Registered: 06/03/15
Posts: 1,256
Last seen: 4 years, 28 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929485 - 12/15/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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so man, ur gunna ween off the pharma junk and start taking some more benign sleep aids seems the best solution best of luck, ur profile pic is
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: ergoticmandala]
#23929597 - 12/15/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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ergoticmandala said: so man, ur gunna ween off the pharma junk and start taking some more benign sleep aids seems the best solution best of luck, ur profile pic is 
Shit just went from bad to worse. Am now tapering off Lexapro from 10mg per day down to 5mg and getting extreme agitation and burning skin feeling also now feels like my sleep is even worse which I didn't think was possible seeing as I basically feel like I'm not getting any unconscious sleep at all in over two weeks just that half asleep half dreaming shit..but last night just felt wide awake and alert.
So over this nonsense, get a voicemail from the sleep specialist in Vancouver saying they can't see me until August 21st next year what in the actual fuck.
ps thanks for the props on the avatar. I actually switched mine from Hunter S Thompson as a user messaged me saying I stole theirs...you know because somehow I would know what every single user on here has as their avatar lol. But alas to keep peace I changed it.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
Edited by Dabrit (12/15/16 02:31 PM)
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Tiamo
Trust in LITFA




Registered: 04/07/16
Posts: 1,935
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929630 - 12/15/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You say that when you lay down in bed you never leave your hypnagogic state? Ouch, that sounds bad.
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If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results? Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just
Mush love
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Tiamo]
#23929659 - 12/15/16 02:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tiamo said: You say that when you lay down in bed you never leave your hypnagogic state? Ouch, that sounds bad.
Yeah I know and my doctor really doesn't seem to have answers for me and the sleep specialists can't see me until August next year.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929688 - 12/15/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Dabrit said: Like I said I'm weaning off the addictive benzo( Clonazepam), anti depressants aren't addictive and my initial insomnia was likely caused by either stress or depression so I do think treating it with something is a good idea. It's not like you get hooked on any kind of Serotonin agonist or reuptake inhibitor. They just correct a chemical imbalance which usually is the cause of your depression i.e low serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.
I also was drinking too much for a while which likely didn't help matters as I started relying on it to pass out. I stopped for 7 weeks and since will only have 1 drink or two max so I'm not relying on it's sedative effects to sleep.
Anti-depressants are extremely addicting. They call it 'dependance' for marketing reasons, but anyone with half a brain can figure out it's the same thing. Do you go into withdrawals when stopping the medication? If so then that medication is addicting.
It's also entirely untrue that you have a 'chemical imbalance.' The fact is that no one actually knows why ssris even work and there has never been an observed 'chemical imbalance.' That was a theory that existed one time that was then told to patients as a fact which it was not, it has sense been disproven and is no longer even believed by the majority of the community. For that matter it's hotly debated whether they even DO work, I'm not convinced they do. It has been proven they're increase your chances of commuting suicide though to the point that they carry a black box warning of such right on the outside of the package. These are serious medications with major side effects and we don't even know how they work, depending who you ask we don't even know IF they work.
I personally think that is a terrible approach to begin with. Think about it. Say you have someone that is abused while growing up and then one day they're labelled as depressed. Instead of telling them that in their circumstances depression is a very natural response and that they should work on overcoming the psychological and socioeconomic issues that effect them they are told that all of that is okay, the problem is with YOU, there is something wrong with your brain. Everything else being the same is that remotely going to improve the situation? You've now convinced the person that not only is the problem inherent to them, but that it may well be a permanent part of themselves that they can't fix, but can instead learn to live with. I believe most pysche issues are very natural and would occur to anyone in the same circumstances, but it's easier to blame the issue on the person and give them a pill than it is to solve the problems that cause it, and it's a lot more profitable as well.
Edited by krypto2000 (12/15/16 03:04 PM)
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23929840 - 12/15/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said:
Quote:
Dabrit said: Like I said I'm weaning off the addictive benzo( Clonazepam), anti depressants aren't addictive and my initial insomnia was likely caused by either stress or depression so I do think treating it with something is a good idea. It's not like you get hooked on any kind of Serotonin agonist or reuptake inhibitor. They just correct a chemical imbalance which usually is the cause of your depression i.e low serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine etc.
I also was drinking too much for a while which likely didn't help matters as I started relying on it to pass out. I stopped for 7 weeks and since will only have 1 drink or two max so I'm not relying on it's sedative effects to sleep.
Anti-depressants are extremely addicting. They call it 'dependance' for marketing reasons, but anyone with half a brain can figure out it's the same thing. Do you go into withdrawals when stopping the medication? If so then that medication is addicting.
It's also entirely untrue that you have a 'chemical imbalance.' The fact is that no one actually knows why ssris even work and there has never been an observed 'chemical imbalance.' That was a theory that existed one time that was then told to patients as a fact which it was not, it has sense been disproven and is no longer even believed by the majority of the community. For that matter it's hotly debated whether they even DO work, I'm not convinced they do. It has been proven they're increase your chances of commuting suicide though to the point that they carry a black box warning of such right on the outside of the package. These are serious medications with major side effects and we don't even know how they work, depending who you ask we don't even know IF they work.
I personally think that is a terrible approach to begin with. Think about it. Say you have someone that is abused while growing up and then one day they're labelled as depressed. Instead of telling them that in their circumstances depression is a very natural response and that they should work on overcoming the psychological and socioeconomic issues that effect them they are told that all of that is okay, the problem is with YOU, there is something wrong with your brain. Everything else being the same is that remotely going to improve the situation? You've now convinced the person that not only is the problem inherent to them, but that it may well be a permanent part of themselves that they can't fix, but can instead learn to live with. I believe most pysche issues are very natural and would occur to anyone in the same circumstances, but it's easier to blame the issue on the person and give them a pill than it is to solve the problems that cause it, and it's a lot more profitable as well.
First I was having major insomnia before I started taking anti depressants again. In the past citalopram was very beneficial for me and did work for depression but there is always the risk during the first couple of weeks that the depression can get worse. Often people seem to read over that part of the warnings when they start taking them and stop because of it instead of toughing it out and then feeling better afterwards. This seems to happen more to the 25 and younger crowd which I'm not included in any longer. But I myself had dizziness and increased depression to start not suicidal thoughts but felt like shit for sure but I stabilized as promised by my doctor. When I took them previously though I didn't have insomnia issues just depression and anxiety.
I came off them in November of 2014 then worked a really stressful job that gave me insomnia and I started taking clonazepam just to sleep which always seemed superior to zopliclone or ambien for sleep. Problem with this was the doctor didn't explain just how seriously addictive they are and the repercussions for taking them. I quit cold turkey in January of this year not realizing how dangerous that was because it wasn't explained to me by the doctors I then just couldn't sleep properly anymore I'd go two nights of no sleep then maybe be tired enough to sleep 4-5 hours the next night this has just been getting worse since then and I've now had one stretch of 7 days with 0 hours of sleep then 8 days before finally being able to see my GP who thought depression was the underlying cause put me on escitalopram 20mg and put me back on clonazepam for the first month to deal with the side effects and help me sleep till the SSRI kicked in. The clonazepam helped at first again to sleep 6-7 hours per night but then after a while 1mg at bedtime wasn't enough so upped to 1.5mg..then after a month or so doctor says just stop taking that now and try amitriptyline which worked amazing first night, then not so good second night then just wouldn't work period and back to no nights sleep. Ended up going another 6 days with 0 hours sleep and was going nuts ended up at the psych ward who prescribed me clonazepam again which helped me sleep initially and then tolerance quickly built up and around and around we went. At this time I didn't know of a proper tapering schedule for benzos neither did my doctor apparently who just had me take 2 pills for 3 nights then down to 1 which is ridiculous as anyone who have been on benzos will tell you far too drastic of a taper.
After two months of escitalopram it became apparent that it was not going to help me sleep so we then switched to 50mg of Zoloft this is where things went from bad to worse I couldn't sleep even taking clonazepam at 2mg per night for a week so came off of that and have now switched to mirtazapine which I've been on for a week and a half it's supposed to be great for sleep with most people saying they get knocked out by the 15mg dose I however only feel mild sedation not nearly enough to knock me out, it can take two weeks or more though to be effective but I have my doubts. I'm supposed to up my dose to 30mg per day on Monday next week and taper down to 0mg of escitalopram on the same day...I think this taper of the escitalopram is too high as well. From what I've read tapers should be done every two weeks not weekly like my doctor is prescribing so I think I'll stay at 5mg/ day for an additional week.
I am just so tempted right now to drink my face off and smoke a ton of weed to just pass out...because that's how desperate I am to sleep it's miserable...but then I'll just likely start substituting benzos with booze for sleep and this won't help me long term...
I think I'm fucked and I don't know if I'm ever going to be able to sleep properly again.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23929894 - 12/15/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow that sounds fucked man. I can't believe how irresponsible those drs are. Fuck. I don't know what caused your insomnia but those drugs definitely are not helping, especially the benzos. It seriously baffles me that anyone would prescribe a benzo for someone to sleep with, especially long term. Benzos are for acute anxiety, little more. I'll take a benzo to sleep if I literally have nothing else but even as a joe schmoe it's one of the last things I would take. I've never woken up from a benzo sleep and felt refreshed. Like alcohol they can make you pass out but they don't promote a good sleep, quite the opposite. Not to mention the side effects and extremely addicting nature of them which are one of the few drugs that can actually kill you from withdrawals. Those people should lose their medical license, jesus fuck.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23929925 - 12/15/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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krypto2000 said: Wow that sounds fucked man. I can't believe how irresponsible those drs are. Fuck. I don't know what caused your insomnia but those drugs definitely are not helping, especially the benzos. It seriously baffles me that anyone would prescribe a benzo for someone to sleep with, especially long term. Benzos are for acute anxiety, little more. I'll take a benzo to sleep if I literally have nothing else but even as a joe schmoe it's one of the last things I would take. I've never woken up from a benzo sleep and felt refreshed. Like alcohol they can make you pass out but they don't promote a good sleep, quite the opposite. Not to mention the side effects and extremely addicting nature of them which are one of the few drugs that can actually kill you from withdrawals. Those people should lose their medical license, jesus fuck.
Not being able to sleep is the worst torture you can imagine long term...no matter how positive a mindset you try and have you will always just feel off. I'm for now going to try melatonin again for a solid week and smoke weed even though it makes me anxious cause I'm at my wits end.
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23930150 - 12/15/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I think weed is fine. I don't think it's good to rely on it for sleep, but if you can't sleep otherwise you're doing a lot more damage than the likely minor issues that it would bring about. Did you say what originally caused the sleep issues or are you not sure? I can't remember now and I don't want to go reread the whole thread.
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Dabrit



Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: krypto2000]
#23930450 - 12/15/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Yeah, I think weed is fine. I don't think it's good to rely on it for sleep, but if you can't sleep otherwise you're doing a lot more damage than the likely minor issues that it would bring about. Did you say what originally caused the sleep issues or are you not sure? I can't remember now and I don't want to go reread the whole thread.
If I were to wager a guess it was the stressful job I was working at in the field of insurance plus I went through a break up in the fall of last year which is around the time I recall it starting. Initially waking up at 4am unable to sleep and then that turning into tossing and turning struggling to fall asleep..that's when I went to the medi center and requested some clonazepam...and then all hell broke loose. I was dosing a shit ton with mushrooms in 2015 as they seemed to let me regain focus in my life and shed the negativity and then everything was just starting to flow right..problem was I kept going even once I got into a very positive mind set and likely over did it and developed long term tolerance to shrooms( Haven't done any since July now)
-------------------- Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume
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PsychoKinesiS
Alien Resources Manager
Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 1,444
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
#23959112 - 12/26/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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All Benzos and Z drugs are approved only for acute episodic or short term use up to 2 weeks and the labeling warns against use greater than 2 weeks. Anything else is off-label usage. Unfortunately, doctors are somehow allowed to prescribe whatever off-label usage they want, and they never warn the patient that there are any side effects whatsoever, when the side effect is ruining your life. They even deny the side effects if asked. They dont even know. What do they even teach these doctors in medical school? I dont know what is wrong with the world.
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Edited by PsychoKinesiS (12/26/16 07:50 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
#23959151 - 12/26/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Its more big pharma then the doctors. Most of doctors are informed by the drug companies about the drugs they prescribe, but many times they arent informed enough and alot is omitted about the drug and its side effects. And doctors dont just heal anymore...they have so much damn paper work and bureaucratic gov. bullshit and insurance bullshit they Have to deal with every single day for every single patient that they dont have the time they once had to do more research than what they learned in med school besides the occasional meeting or what have you - they are swamped.
Its also the individuals responsibility to not seek drugs to fix every little thing in life that troubles them, I mean our ancestors...think about them. Our society reaches for pills for everything from sniffly noses, to colds, to sleep meds, to little pain and big pain meds, drugs for when you eat to much, drugs for when you eat to little, drugs for when you sleep to much, drugs for when you sleep to little.
Drugs for when you think to much, drugs for when you think to little. Drugs for everything. Its up to the individual to be responsible for themselves ultimately. Mans greed got the best of him. Big Pharma and lobbyiests are much more responsible than Physicians as a whole. What is taught in med school is what they know. They are increidble and knowledgeable and very discerning when it comes to a healthy body and a diseased body. But now we medicate any given behaviour or lack ther of behaviour because it makes money and people are willing to take the short and easy way out because life is short and we no longer live close to natural...far from it.
Drugs are great for when you have a real sickness and a real organic illness like a bacterial or viral infection or a broken spine in 10 places or you have to get your appendix removed and need pain meds and anesthesia, antibiotics , some vaccines, etc - you know the legit stuff...besides that and some other legit conditions... we have been duped.
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/26/16 08:05 PM)
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totallylike
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23959160 - 12/26/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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valerian is an excellent sleep remedy with no hangover
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