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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23916488 - 12/11/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
You would be impressed if you knew sometimes insomnia problems can be solved simply using earplugs and eyemask




I'll give it a shot although have my doubts as when I am sleeping normally nothing really wakes me up just time, but maybe just maybe it could help I'll give it a go.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
    #23916544 - 12/11/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.

There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.


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OfflineDerPda
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Registered: 05/12/15
Posts: 159
Last seen: 3 years, 20 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: egobrain]
    #23916724 - 12/11/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

1. I would cut off the drug use completely for a longer period (like 1 year) to allow your brain to go back to normal.
2. Your depression needs treatment, since it can cause insomnia.
3. Cooling your frontal cortex before going to bed (use migrane head wraps) can help.
4. Do sports to the max and power out your body.
5. Improve your habbits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene).
6. Best wishes and get well soon.


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
    #23918419 - 12/12/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's really conforting, even when it's completely dark and silent I can't sleep well without using earplugs and eyemask. The orange earplugs are the best for sleeping.


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Offlinewolf8312
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Registered: 10/01/12
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23918652 - 12/12/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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OfflineAncestoralbeings
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Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
    #23918888 - 12/12/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Meditate for like 30 minutes and try to astral project, you'll probably fall asleep while trying to astral project. If not, that's cool anyways!


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Offlineergoticmandala
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Registered: 06/03/15
Posts: 1,256
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23918943 - 12/12/16 09:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yu should get off the prescribed medicine
and if ur in a legal weed state get some indica bud and smoke that before sleeping, also melatonin works great with little side effects


--------------------


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: ergoticmandala]
    #23919015 - 12/12/16 09:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Going of the OP I really dont think he would be wise to use cannabis at all. Some people should avoid it like the plauge and from everything he said I think the OP fits that particular profile very well.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinebrainysmurf
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Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 8
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
    #23919127 - 12/12/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Have you tried any cannabis edibles or cannacaps instead of smoking? Easy to make and with the right strain and dose they will couch lock and/or put you to sleep. Worth a shot if you havent tried them yet. Digesting is very different than smoking.

Edit: The above poster might be right on avoiding cannabis if your in a state where it worsens things.


Edited by brainysmurf (12/12/16 10:46 AM)


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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: egobrain]
    #23919402 - 12/12/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

egobrain said:
Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.

There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.




Yeah there are tons of dispensaries open where I live without need for a script. The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such. Docs think anxiety is the cause of my insomnia, I'm thinking insomnia is the cause of my anxiety it freaks you out to go weeks on end without fully knowing you were unconscious and asleep. Literally feels like I'm awake every night yet drifting to a dream/wake state it's so odd.

It's like I'm stuck in Stage 1 sleep/REM always no deeper than that unless of course I drink my face off and pass out and that obviously leads to it's own demons.

Maybe I'll try a CBD strain with minimal THC content have tried that before though. Weed used to help a great deal with sleep but I've become tolerant to it's sedative properties as well. I was reading mirtazapine reviews and they all seemed to say it made them feel so sedated and out of it when they first started taking it and they all for the most part slept like babies. I am only feeling mild sedation from it nothing significant at all. It's like my brain is just tolerant to sedation itself it's really pissing me off at this point. This can't be good for my vital organs to be deprived of restorative sleep.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
    #23919425 - 12/12/16 12:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?




I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.

Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.

I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.

I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.

No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
    #23919432 - 12/12/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DerPda said:
1. I would cut off the drug use completely for a longer period (like 1 year) to allow your brain to go back to normal.
2. Your depression needs treatment, since it can cause insomnia.
3. Cooling your frontal cortex before going to bed (use migrane head wraps) can help.
4. Do sports to the max and power out your body.
5. Improve your habbits (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_hygiene).
6. Best wishes and get well soon.




Hey thanks for the input I haven't tried the migraine head wraps before maybe I could try that. My Dad told me about some remedy of putting an ice cube on the spot between the bone in the back of your head and the start of your neck it's apparently an acupuncture spot, when I tried that funnily was the first night going without any hours of sleep even with clonazepam could have just been a coincidence as it also was when I was starting to not take escitalopram and took 400mg of magnesium as well as I heard that helped...nope.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: brainysmurf]
    #23919441 - 12/12/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

brainysmurf said:
Have you tried any cannabis edibles or cannacaps instead of smoking? Easy to make and with the right strain and dose they will couch lock and/or put you to sleep. Worth a shot if you havent tried them yet. Digesting is very different than smoking.

Edit: The above poster might be right on avoiding cannabis if your in a state where it worsens things.




I developed tolerance to weed and weed itself being smoked makes me anxious which is an anti sleep mechanism, edibles deliver twice the high if not more than smoking so I would assume that would only make me even more anxious. I'm not one of the lucky one where weed relaxes them I was only ever using it recently because it used to help me sleep but seen as it doesn't help me sleep and only creates anxiety I don't think it's a good option anymore.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 5,871
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
    #23919480 - 12/12/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dabrit said:
The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such.




Edibles don't really give anxiety like smoking does. Smoking is completely different, smoking is what causes derealization, depersonalization, anxiety, paranoia, ect.
I've never gotten any of that from edibles, sure edibles could give you anxiety and panic if you overdose but that's the case with every drug.
I think you're just assuming too much. 

Also it's all about dose, fuck the strain because it's the dosage, tolerance and method you're using that will determine what effects you will get. If you get anxious from weed just lower the dose. People are pretty naive when it comes to finding the right dose for THC.
They think all doses and methods will do the same thing to them just more or less intense when couldn't be further from the truth.


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
    #23919500 - 12/12/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Is it possible dude that your are an addict? And suffering WE
Quote:

Dabrit said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?




I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.

Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.

I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.

I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.

No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.




Why even drink coffee if you have insomnia?

You need to get off absolutely everything IMO. I think initially you got addicted to all sorts of things but now it seems its just a vicious circle and self fulfilling prophecy that you are locked into. I think you're an addict though right? Is that not the root cause of the problem?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
    #23919611 - 12/12/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dabrit said:
Quote:

egobrain said:
Have you tried MJ concentrates, edibles or tinctures? If you have access to a dispensary with high CBD containing preparations you may want to try them out. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting CBD helps to mitigate the anxiety THC causes. You probably wouldn't want something with minimal THC though, as CBD on its own can be slightly stimulating. Something high in CBD with a moderate amount of THC would be perfect in your case, IMO.

There is plenty of info out there on the web. Hopefully you live somewhere that is tolerant to dispensaries.




Yeah there are tons of dispensaries open where I live without need for a script. The thing is like I said I get so much anxiety from weed that edibles would be even worse as would be THC pills and such. Docs think anxiety is the cause of my insomnia, I'm thinking insomnia is the cause of my anxiety it freaks you out to go weeks on end without fully knowing you were unconscious and asleep. Literally feels like I'm awake every night yet drifting to a dream/wake state it's so odd.

It's like I'm stuck in Stage 1 sleep/REM always no deeper than that unless of course I drink my face off and pass out and that obviously leads to it's own demons.

Maybe I'll try a CBD strain with minimal THC content have tried that before though. Weed used to help a great deal with sleep but I've become tolerant to it's sedative properties as well. I was reading mirtazapine reviews and they all seemed to say it made them feel so sedated and out of it when they first started taking it and they all for the most part slept like babies. I am only feeling mild sedation from it nothing significant at all. It's like my brain is just tolerant to sedation itself it's really pissing me off at this point. This can't be good for my vital organs to be deprived of restorative sleep.




For whats its worth, someone I know has a rescue dog that suffers from PTSD. They started giving it a dose of CBD twice a day and she has calmed down considerably and will actually sleep through the night now. More studies need to be done on the effectiveness of cannabis as medicine.

All the best to you man.


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OfflineDerPda
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Dabrit]
    #23920306 - 12/12/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Meh, I fucked up the quote. Doesnt matter...


The idea of using those headwraps to induce sleep is kinda new. Our research department for psychosomatic medicine has resently a study going. The idea is, that depression causes permanent stress and workload for the frontal cortex, which heats the tissue and hinders sleep. We want to know, whether cooling helps to reduce tissue temperature and therewith stress. This could result in an improved ability to fall asleep.
Like I said, we dont have the data yet, but there is some evidence from 2 previous studies. It could help and if not, its at least worth a try.

When you describe your feelings, when going to bed (increased heart rate, axiety, etc.) this sounds like a conditioned fear. You are afraid of not being able to sleep and the surroundings (all those stimuli like the bed etc.) trigger this fear as soon as you enter "sleep mode". You could try to change these stimuli to break the conditioning.

Still, your problem sounds very serious from a psychological perspective and will be hard to solve. You will need patience, discipline and a lot of effort.


Edited by DerPda (12/12/16 05:01 PM)


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OfflineDabrit
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Registered: 12/02/15
Posts: 523
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Last seen: 6 months, 29 days
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: wolf8312]
    #23920631 - 12/12/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Is it possible dude that your are an addict? And suffering WE
Quote:

Dabrit said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I agree forget trying to find another drug to rely on. I think the problem is that you seem to be looking for a solution of some kind as if something within you genuinely dosent believe that sleep without some kind of chemical aid is possible. Dont know how to break the circle but first step get rid of the drugs, learn meditation or something. Do you think it is your thoughts and thinking that keeps you from sleeping?




I think perhaps initially, but as of late since I've been on antidepressants I don't get as much of the racing thoughts. But I do notice as soon as I climb into bed my heart rate for some reason goes up and with my eyes closed it still feels like sometimes lights are being shined on my eyes and they are twitchy, even with the mask on last night my eyes just don't relax probably due to the sleep depravation itself, my hands are super shakey as well and sometimes now I'm getting stomach cramping. It's scary as hell. I had the theory that my brain became so dependant on a sedative to sleep that in it's absence it doesn't know what to do so I started tapering off the clonazepam, and quit booze for over 6 weeks and weed too but I still haven't rebounded. Will be at least another month and a half to be off the benzos completely. Going cold turkey is apparently super dangerous with risk of seizures etc. But the 0.5mg I take at night literally provides no sedation at all so it's not like my brain is getting that anymore.

Even 10mg of melatonin does not help me, I was able to get some sleep a few weeks ago taking 2-3 0.5mg of clonazepam at night. Then doctor switched me off of escitalopram cold turkey and then had me start Zoloft 50mg and that immediately made me incapable of any unconscious sleep for over a week and then only 1 hour to 3 hours if also taking clonazepam. Obviously the Zoloft was too stimulating or the withdrawal from the escitalopram was what caused the problem to get worse.

I'm now tapering down off the escitalopram on 10mg in the morning, 15 mg of Mirtazipine at night which I take with the 1 x 0.5mg clonazepam and I definitely do feel a bit sleep but not enough for the switch to go off....I'm ready to lose it at this point.

I'm exercising again even though my energy levels are shit and I have huge bags under my eyes.

No caffeine after 12pm of course, no TV within 1 hour of bed time etc.




Why even drink coffee if you have insomnia?

You need to get off absolutely everything IMO. I think initially you got addicted to all sorts of things but now it seems its just a vicious circle and self fulfilling prophecy that you are locked into. I think you're an addict though right? Is that not the root cause of the problem?




I ask myself at times if it's the withdrawal from the clonazepam that started this vicious cycle of insomnia in the first place I just quit cold turkey and drank more to help with the increased anxiety after coming off them and then mid week when I had to work just switched to zopliclone to sleep as I just couldn't unless I drank and obviously couldn't mid week. Then quit those cold turkey and nothing would let me sleep other than more clonazepam.

am weaning off clonazepam but that likely is only going to to make things worse and i'm just exhausted at this point.


--------------------
Psychedelics = True gateway to spiritual enlightenment and detachment from ones meat costume :wink:




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OfflineAncestoralbeings
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Registered: 12/01/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: DerPda]
    #23921960 - 12/13/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DerPda said:
Meh, I fucked up the quote. Doesnt matter...


The idea of using those headwraps to induce sleep is kinda new. Our research department for psychosomatic medicine has resently a study going. The idea is, that depression causes permanent stress and workload for the frontal cortex, which heats the tissue and hinders sleep. We want to know, whether cooling helps to reduce tissue temperature and therewith stress. This could result in an improved ability to fall asleep.
Like I said, we dont have the data yet, but there is some evidence from 2 previous studies. It could help and if not, its at least worth a try.

When you describe your feelings, when going to bed (increased heart rate, axiety, etc.) this sounds like a conditioned fear. You are afraid of not being able to sleep and the surroundings (all those stimuli like the bed etc.) trigger this fear as soon as you enter "sleep mode". You could try to change these stimuli to break the conditioning.

Still, your problem sounds very serious from a psychological perspective and will be hard to solve. You will need patience, discipline and a lot of effort.



68 degrees is the ideal external temperature to sleep in.


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OfflineTiamo
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Re: Can regular psilocybin use( more than once per week) damage receptors responsible for sleep [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23922020 - 12/13/16 09:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OK, here's what you should do.

Lay off the drugs, don't even drink caffeine or alcohol. Get a good dinner in you, with a nice tall glass of water. Brush your teeth, do whatever. Get yourself comfortable, read a book in a quiet, semi dark-ish room half an hour before bed, no electrical appliances. Take some melatonin, ~1 mg, natural sleep hormone. Dim all the lights in your room, close your door, close the blinds, completely dark, don't have your phone in the same room. It helps if the room is cold. Lay down with an eye mask and ear plugs on your back, meditate, count back from a hundred, or count up, whatever, quieten your thoughts. You will fall asleep within minutes. Really really fast. This regime has gotten me through the worst insomniac episodes.

The only time it doesn't work is when I'm anxious, and I start thinking about monsters or whatever and throw off my eye mask and panic. It happens sometimes. :justdontknow:


--------------------


If you have used a Miraculix Psilocybin QTest, could you please share your results?

Shipping free Ps. natalensis spore prints to any address in The Netherlands, just :pm:

:mushroom2: Mush love :mushroom2:


Edited by Tiamo (12/13/16 09:25 AM)


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