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Teemo 6T3
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Registered: 07/21/14
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Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run
#23912300 - 12/10/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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First of all, props to Azur for having this idea
It all started from there 
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
azur said: I think agar as a casing is a neat idea, but in reality it would rapidly contam.
Just gave me an idea. . .
Didn't want to post anything till i got some results, so here we are. 
So i got some un-modified mini monos and pasturised coco coir in them at 150 F, for about an hour.

Moving on to the casing, i first boiled some black tea for some biotic resistance

Next added some agar agar, it was pure agar agar! NOT the pre-mixed stuff.

Next added some verm cus i thought it would fluff the agar a bit (which it kind of didn't, well... sort of did)
Keep in mind i did not use any PC or anything, i boiled the water for about 20 min i think (tea diffusion, and also waited for all the agar agar to melt in).
Here it is after it cooled, who wants some-a-dat sparkly green 


The spawn was a clone, but it was also bacterial, due to my carelessness..
Never thought it would fruit from it, i did this whole thing cus i wanted to just test things out and see how it goes.
Seems like cubes just don't give a fuck..

Here they are getting bigger.. Some new ones popping out too.

As for the other tub, i just cased it with agar
But this time i hot/warm poured the agar on top of the sub, instead of waiting for it to cool, also i didn't add any vermiculite.
I wanted to see what is the difference, and if it could also somehow still fruit, with that dense layer, especially since its not fluffed up .
Will be updating soon.
Update of second tub that was poured with agar
Edited by Teemo 6T3 (12/24/16 10:07 AM)
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enlightenment
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23912313 - 12/10/16 07:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Congrats, it fruits... but 
I can't see any benefit of mixing agar into a casing layer  It ruins the micro climate IMO.
No offense... I just don't understand why someone should do this.
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Teemo 6T3
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I was just bored, wanted to see what comes out of this lol. 
Would be a great water reservoir for the fruits i guess.
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enlightenment
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23912342 - 12/10/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Teemo 6T3 said: Would be a great water reservoir for the fruits i guess. 
That's an argument. There is a powder for flowers that becomes a gel when it's hydrated to act as a water reservoir. I don't know the ingredients but it might be worth a try. If you like to experiment you could give this a try, too.
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frogomatic
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you can run agar on poms https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20643482 for a microlattice like coir with less nutes or pom coir mix. would be good for shrooms that go mutant with too many nutes.
Edited by frogomatic (12/10/16 09:34 AM)
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Teemo 6T3
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Well we're 100% sure that agar is non-nutritive, so i'd rather stick with that lol.
Again i was just testing Azur's idea, and it worked 
Pasty said he would test this out soon too, hopefully he gets results from his side too.
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funkymonk22
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23916046 - 12/11/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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thats crazy! and absolutely awesome...
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: funkymonk22]
#23916096 - 12/11/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well done that's cool
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mushboy
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23916163 - 12/11/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tiamo
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mushboy]
#23929161 - 12/15/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Update?
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Tiamo]
#23929249 - 12/15/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is the second tub which i just hot poured the agar on, looks like some of the mycelium penetrated through the agar casing, could be mold though, not sure at the moment.
We'll just have to keep it on the side and see what happens, will update if it fruits, if not then 

For the next tub i might be testing out bw86 casing, where he uses a sand layer then a normal casing mix of verm & peat.
This tub of coir/hpoo is colonising since 10 dec, i'd say 3 more days and i'll start casing.
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23948275 - 12/22/16 07:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seeing some shrooms popping out through the poured agar casing
Never thought it would actually fruit, its like fruiting from under the agar... looks so cool..
Will upload the pics soon enough.
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23948366 - 12/22/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The pics aren't so clear, but it looks so cool how they are forming under the agar and tearing through it
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Tiamo
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23948385 - 12/22/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know why this is so funny to me. Rock on little shroomies!
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Tiamo]
#23948410 - 12/22/16 08:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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such a cool project
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23948434 - 12/22/16 09:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is cool. My run got aborted due to the wife tossing the agar I was preparing but I am gonna take a stab at it again soon.
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23948564 - 12/22/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Update us when you do. 
I'm not using a tested clone so it won't really tell if agar casing is even close to what you get with normal peat casing.
So your input to this would really help.
At least it fruited though, that shows its giving some what of a good micro climate for fruiting i guess.
And a couple of observations:
I realised that as i poured the warm agar a layer of bubble formed on the surface of the colonised sub. And as it cooled the agar wasn't straight on the surface as i thought it would be like it was on a plate.
It was very irregular with bumps and shit. Also, when i waited for fruiting, the agar seemed to pull apart from each other like its some kinda of tectonic plate lol.
Just checked on it again, and i see a couple of side pins developing even though when i hot poured the agar, the agar literally covered all the nooks and crannies of the sub, especially on the sides that were pulling apart from the tub.

The parts that look like uncolonised sub is actually where the agar filled up the gaps.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23948598 - 12/22/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well what I had in mind is quite different from what your doing. But it's all R&D. I will be using clones tho to control my results a bit.
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23948615 - 12/22/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So does the agar not cut off air to it?
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mushboy
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23948631 - 12/22/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said: So does the agar not cut off air to it?
yah.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mushboy]
#23948675 - 12/22/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive seen a lot of this tea= antibacterial shit going around lately. If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria more than it would discourage
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Ferather
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948700 - 12/22/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Ive seen a lot of this tea= antibacterial shit going around lately. If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria more than it would discourage
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mushboy
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Ferather]
#23948707 - 12/22/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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thats quite the gif.
i dont know the science but i could imagine tea being a crutch for not having clean spawn.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mushboy]
#23948710 - 12/22/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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From a few quick searches it looks like bacteria grows quite well in tea and many food safety sites stress proper refridgeration in the interest of food safety.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mushboy]
#23948711 - 12/22/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've seen the t-agar and t-gel threads there's really no evidence.
I worked with tea for years at a brewery that infused tea into beers. Black tea green tea all are contamination magnets
Tea may inhibit a few kinds of bacteria but they encourage a whole lot more
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948724 - 12/22/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree its not 100% proof, but Llebsiella, Enterobacter and E. coli are non spore forming bacteria. That would mean you failed to clean the products correctly, or you infected it directly.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Ferather]
#23948738 - 12/22/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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 None of those three are anything we worry about as contaminants anyway. We have problems with LABs, pseudomonas, clostridum
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Ferather
Mycological



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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948749 - 12/22/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for the specified bacteria, Link, Link, Link.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Ferather]
#23948766 - 12/22/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool, you can't just read titles. There's some antibacterial activity from some compounds isolated from tea. Doesn't mean tea is going to be antibacterial.
Same reasons we are not chewing on willow bark for our aspirin needs
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948774 - 12/22/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Cool, you can't just read titles. There's some antibacterial activity from some compounds isolated from tea. Doesn't mean tea is going to be antibacterial.
Same reasons we are not chewing on willow bark for our aspirin needs
Like eating ergot to get an LSD trip. . .
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948777 - 12/22/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also a classic example of media reporting on research is that when a bacterial population gets reduced the assumption is that the independent variable is the cause of the effect. Where the tea may be encouraging some other bacteria then that causes the population of some other bacteria to fall.
Starsan (DDBSA+ phosphoric acid) Far more antibacterial than tea, but you can't even use that to make antibacterial grains
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Mycolorado
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948791 - 12/22/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Tea may inhibit a few kinds of bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Far more antibacterial than tea
Which is it?
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948794 - 12/22/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Was it dust who was trying to use starsan to make antibacterial grains a year or two ago? I still think a soap/lime/banrot treatment would work best to chemically prevent/sanitize. Not that I'm planning on trying it, I have a wicked sterilizer. Nothing kills bacteria like a sterilizer.
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Ferather
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23948834 - 12/22/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So adding coffee is a good idea, and adding tea is a bad idea? In terms of infection chance, I think not. Whatever argument you have against tea, it will be 10x worse for coffee, pointless argument.
No offense but in terms of addition to a substrate, you benefit with tea.
You already agreed tea infections are not common issues.
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Mycolorado]
#23948836 - 12/22/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Tea may inhibit a few kinds of bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Far more antibacterial than tea
Which is it?
All of them if you half half a mind to understand what I said
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948851 - 12/22/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Peppermint and citrus can kill some bacteria But both go rancid quickly from bacteria that doesn't give a fuck There's antibacterial properties, but neither are very antibacterial. They're not disinfectants or sanitizers. Sanitizers(bleach, alcohol, starsan, iodophor) are far more antibacterial than mint or citrus or tea
Make sense?
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Mycolorado
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: bodhisatta]
#23948859 - 12/22/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
Mycolorado said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said: If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Tea may inhibit a few kinds of bacteria
Quote:
bodhisatta said: Far more antibacterial than tea
Which is it?
All of them if you half half a mind to understand what I said
Eh, your intellect is obviously far superior to most on here including mine...prolly why I couldn't grasp what you were saying.
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Ferather
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Mycolorado]
#23948874 - 12/22/16 11:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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NVM forget it, you carry on adding things to substrates that have 0% resistance to everything. I no longer wish to participate in a pointless argument, given this is not on topic.
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enlightenment
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Mycolorado]
#23948884 - 12/22/16 11:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ive seen a lot of this tea= antibacterial shit going around lately. If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria more than it would discourage
I started to think about the "tea inhibits mold germination" theory last week. I found a 7-10 day old teacup that was half full with very strong black tea covered with a lot of mold. I never tried tea in mushroom cultivation and monitored Ferather's interesting thread about tea agar. But as I wrote the situation with my teacup gives me serious doubts.
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mrmazdarx9
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
Ive seen a lot of this tea= antibacterial shit going around lately. If anything tea is going to encourage bacteria more than it would discourage
I started to think about the "tea inhibits mold germination" theory last week. I found a 7-10 day old teacup that was half full with very strong black tea covered with a lot of mold. I never tried tea in mushroom cultivation and monitored Ferather's interesting thread about tea agar. But as I wrote the situation with my teacup gives me serious doubts.
Was about to say that I found a cup of green tea in my garage from a few weeks ago was rather moldy lol
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Pastywhyte
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I have no issue with the notion of tea as a nutritional supplement. I just don't think of it as having resistance properties, no do I rely on chemical resistance as a sole means of protection especially for things like spawn and inoculate. If there are some definitive tests demonstrating good success I pay attention, but the proof must be there.
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Ferather
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23948960 - 12/22/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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A cup of tea is 98% water content with a low pH, and 3g tea to 240g of water. Mold is also a mycelium and you have given it optimal conditions.
Change the concentrate and pH to stop germination.
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Josex
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Ferather]
#23948969 - 12/22/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Clean spawn bitches... clean spawn" That's what Azur would say
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van hatton
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Registered: 11/23/14
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Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
Teemo 6T3 said: Would be a great water reservoir for the fruits i guess. 
That's an argument. There is a powder for flowers that becomes a gel when it's hydrated to act as a water reservoir. I don't know the ingredients but it might be worth a try. If you like to experiment you could give this a try, too.
Diapers have that sort of gel stuff and I mean we put it on babies and they retain water extremely well. Don't see why it would be harmful to the myc
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Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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Tiamo
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23949060 - 12/22/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not the weirdest idea... I like the part where he uses the diapers and mixes it with potting soil. Could we integrate that into CVG or is this the worst idea?
--------------------
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23949064 - 12/22/16 12:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
van hatton said:
Quote:
enlightenment said:
Quote:
Teemo 6T3 said: Would be a great water reservoir for the fruits i guess. 
That's an argument. There is a powder for flowers that becomes a gel when it's hydrated to act as a water reservoir. I don't know the ingredients but it might be worth a try. If you like to experiment you could give this a try, too.
Diapers have that sort of gel stuff and I mean we put it on babies and they retain water extremely well. Don't see why it would be harmful to the myc
It has been done theres a tek on it UTSE. Also destroying a load of nappies is retarded you can buy kilos of those crystal things for shit all cost diapers are damn expensive save the diapers and alot of money just buy the crystals
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van hatton
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23949088 - 12/22/16 12:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I honestly don't even know why I'm surprised that someone has tried this.
Good thought as a casing layer. Only downside I see with using it is the evaporation off the sub. Have to test.
You said you purchased a kit and it was cased with those crystals?
Edited by van hatton (12/22/16 12:51 PM)
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Pinpapa
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23949356 - 12/22/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I had azure spores on agar that proved to be contaminated . Dropped some tea on top and the next day I had white fluffy myc all over the tea.I transferred the tead to ader shred and now I am off to the races.tea has definite use for me.
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23949366 - 12/22/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The very first and only kit I bought came with a "contamination resistant casing layer" I laugh now how dumb I was, which consisted of vermiculite mixed with said crystals which you soaked in boiling water till it absorbs all the water then pour it over the sub
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van hatton
Still a noob



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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23949381 - 12/22/16 02:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said: The very first and only kit I bought came with a "contamination resistant casing layer" I laugh now how dumb I was, which consisted of vermiculite mixed with said crystals which you soaked in boiling water till it absorbs all the water then pour it over the sub
That sounds super sketchy >.> I assume it didn't go very well
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23949392 - 12/22/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Got a few flushes amd plenty shrooms I have a thread
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23950733 - 12/23/16 02:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23951063 - 12/23/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Haha that's so wrong but so right
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van hatton
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23951168 - 12/23/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wow. Just wow.
Mrmaz I read that thread youve come a long way.
-------------------- If I ever give out misinformation please inform me so I can have the correct information. Tmethyl said: Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked a monotub that wasn't pinning fast enough. The force of the kick rearranged the genetics of the mushrooms, we now call them Penis Envy. Caps McGee said:
Fun part is figuring out what works best for you
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: van hatton]
#23951333 - 12/23/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lol thanks. Its a nice reminder and just shows what the shroomery can do for someone with no idea.
-------------------- COCA GROWERS come here and share your knowledge COCA GROWERS UNITE
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: mrmazdarx9]
#23953813 - 12/24/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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More pins popping out
-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
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enlightenment
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23953826 - 12/24/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the agar layer might act as a water reservoir but it destroys the micro climate which is required for a nice pinset IMO. I already wrote this some posts ago. But now there are pictures. 
The pinset does not matter if you get some huge fruits 
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MudaFuka
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23954240 - 12/24/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Awesome man. I love it.
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: MudaFuka]
#23954270 - 12/24/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
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Ferather
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23954289 - 12/24/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you pretended the agar was plastic, like a grow bag, and put arrowheads or holes, would it work better? The agar is pretty perfect for surface evaporation, when misting, similar to plastic.
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Teemo 6T3
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Ferather]
#23954359 - 12/24/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I honestly don't know..
But what i know for sure is that cubes just don't give a flying fuck. 
They might even grow in the places where you don't have those holes, and just lift your plastic bag.
I think your idea is some what similar to the wax paper/bubble wrap casing concept
Quote:
Tmethyl said: Wax paper or bubble wrap can be used AS a fruiting chamber by themselves. No need for a fancy greenhouse, or SGFC (although they have many more applications, and generally provide a better environment). It's quite simple and has been tested by myself and RR as far as I know. Make a bulk substrate tray, or even a large cake, allow it to colonize, etc. Then sit in anywhere you want, I prefer near a window. Drape wax paper or bubble wrap over it so that it is completely covered and there is some excess, you may need to use larger pieces as the mushroom grow taller. That's it. That's a fruiting chamber, or fruiting tent is more accurate. It works quite well might I add. Here is a picture that proves the concept of 'fruiting tent', this is a picture taken by RR:
 These are healthy mushrooms, with no conventional fruiting chamber. Only plastic, doing the same exact thing wax paper and bubble wrap do. (Note: I forgot to add this in, but you can also place typical BRF cakes into a tray, as many as you can fit, and use the above method with success)
-------------------- Shrooming Is Of The Essence   Rest In Peace Dankington
Edited by Teemo 6T3 (12/24/16 02:14 PM)
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Tiamo
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Teemo 6T3]
#23954509 - 12/24/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seems like this will be a slow grow.
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Re: Teemo's Agar Casing Trial run [Re: Tiamo]
#23954658 - 12/24/16 04:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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haha this is great
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