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Offlinestray


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Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse?
    #23910078 - 12/09/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all,

I am looking for examples of people who are fruiting mushrooms commercially in a greenhouse.

I am designing a mushroom growing operation, and we are deciding between a dedicated grow room indoors, and integrating it into a veggie greenhouse which would be 30 X 60 ft. I've never worked with the latter before, so I am curious about people's experiences, successes, issues etc.

What would be the benefits/drawbacks of full size greenhouse vs. indoor grow room?

Any images for reference would be a huge help as well.

Thanks!


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23910352 - 12/09/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

you can't do a mushroom and veggie greenhouse.  but you can do a mushroom greenhouse only in the high desert, where you can get a big drop in temp using evaporative cooling.  even then you need a lot of shade cloth.  So it's really better to do a sandwich of poly/insulation/poly and light it inside.  That's probably the cheapest way to build a structure of that size.  Otherwise you 'can' grow them commercially in a regular poly tunnel, but you will constantly battling the weather.  Might not be able to grow but in the fall and spring.


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Offlinestray


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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23910448 - 12/09/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the feedback. What factors prevent a mushroom/veggie situation from working well?


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Offlinestray


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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23910464 - 12/09/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry, didn't catch that last bit. Basically temperature fluctuation and lack of ability to regulate it is the big problem?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23910486 - 12/09/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stray said:
Sorry, didn't catch that last bit. Basically temperature fluctuation and lack of ability to regulate it is the big problem?



that and you don't want full sunlight.  and you can't keep the humidity up high enough without killing your plants with mold and other diseases.


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OfflineSpeakSoftly
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23910613 - 12/09/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Everybody's climate is different, and some have more extreme fluctuations than other. It just dropped down to 23f here last night, so our season would officially be over if I wasn't growing in an insulated building. It's a warm 60f in there with very little heating.



Lots of people grow seasonal mushrooms very well in hoop houses, but if you want constant and consistent production better to build an indoor dedicated growroom. It really just depends on what you want.


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23911194 - 12/09/16 06:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I was a produce/flower farmer for 5 years and I can tell you from experience the two environments don't mix. Depending on your scale, though, you could get away with growing them under your benches with agribond draped over too and regular misting. That's what we did when we were noobies.
Now we grow in a hoophouse structure, but it has double layer 6 mil poly with an inflation blower and supplemental heat.
I only heat at night on the really cold night's. The inflated double poly gives you an R-5 insulation value so it's better than nothing.
Produce growers heat their greenhouse all throughout the winter in my state so it's definitely doable.
I strongly agree with speak softly though. Best case scenario would be a dedicated insulated room.
Just my two cents.

-Scott


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Offlinestray


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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: MycoFlora]
    #23912910 - 12/10/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all, thanks for the input!

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I was a produce/flower farmer for 5 years and I can tell you from experience the two environments don't mix.




Curious what some of your issues were specifically MycoFlora?


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23912911 - 12/10/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What general location are you talking about


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Invisibleflyontoast
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23912996 - 12/10/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Assuming you are growing nightshades and cucurbits, which are going to want low humidity and hot temps, you'll for sure either have moldy plants or split/dry mushrooms. You might be able to partition the north side of the green house and mist and shade the mushrooms, but that'd probably only really work well in fall and spring when your greenhouses are going to be humid anyway. It'd get interesting if you are heating your GH all winter.

But you are probably better off investing in a new, smally GH, like:What The Fungus does February to November production in outdoor greenhouses with shade cloth, fans, and misters through very hot and dry summers in BC. He says in the video that it cost them $7000 to set-up each greenhouse, which includes the poured concrete, and each produces $30,000 per season. They also documented a lot of their set-up on instagram. So do not despair.


--------------------
:mushroom: My trade list :mushroom:
Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment:
Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors.
Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains.
Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us  :skol:


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23913027 - 12/10/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stray said:
Hey all, thanks for the input!

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I was a produce/flower farmer for 5 years and I can tell you from experience the two environments don't mix.




Curious what some of your issues were specifically MycoFlora?




Just like drake was talking about above, you will face humidity and light issues.
You have to think about it from a plant/fungus perspective. They need literally polar opposite controls. Your mush house would need to be 50-80% shades, 80-95% humidity and constant fresh air. With plants you want almost no humidity, a slower release of fresh air, and full sun or you will run into a lot of fungal issues on your plant starts. With full sun in on your shrooms it will either bleach them or dry them out altogether.
You definitely do not need to spend 7,000 dollars on a mushroom greenhouse. most of the cost there is the concrete. Mine is made with pvc conduit, gravel floor, cheap but effective foggers, etc. It depends on your budget and scale though.
If you are going commercial with either you need a separate greenhouse for both.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: MycoFlora]
    #23913066 - 12/10/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
Quote:

stray said:
Hey all, thanks for the input!

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I was a produce/flower farmer for 5 years and I can tell you from experience the two environments don't mix.




Curious what some of your issues were specifically MycoFlora?




Just like drake was talking about above, you will face humidity and light issues.
You have to think about it from a plant/fungus perspective. They need literally polar opposite controls. Your mush house would need to be 50-80% shades, 80-95% humidity and constant fresh air. With plants you want almost no humidity, a slower release of fresh air, and full sun or you will run into a lot of fungal issues on your plant starts. With full sun in on your shrooms it will either bleach them or dry them out altogether.
You definitely do not need to spend 7,000 dollars on a mushroom greenhouse. most of the cost there is the concrete. Mine is made with pvc conduit, gravel floor, cheap but effective foggers, etc. It depends on your budget and scale though.
If you are going commercial with either you need a separate greenhouse for both.



yeah, honestly I was pretty appalled when Brian at WTF told me how much he borrowed to build that setup.  I spent less and got a bigger building that cranks out shrooms 365.  For $7,000 here anyway you could build out at least 1 cargo container or similar sized building.  I do understand his context though, he doesn't really have much of a market in the winter anyhow.  :shrug:


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Offlineskylotus
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23913545 - 12/10/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey all,

first post on here.

Have been doing the cannabis thing for the last 8 years and have found a new passion for the fungi.

the laws have changed big time in MI, so my plan is to focus on gourmet mushroom production in the next year.

I will say after studying the growth of many different mushroom varieties, they are quite similar to cannabis.

The best advice I can give you is to follow the vpd chart wherever your plants may be and consider a no-till organic setup for maximum flavor and nutrition.

Every variety of mushroom requires different humidity/temps at different stages, which is easy to manage with todays environment controllers and hepa filters.

vpd explanation



good luck and I hope to see pics sometime soon, I want to do this myself on a smaller home scale level.

:cool:

music/LTJ BUKEM


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23914204 - 12/10/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

MycoFlora said:
Quote:

stray said:
Hey all, thanks for the input!

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I was a produce/flower farmer for 5 years and I can tell you from experience the two environments don't mix.




Curious what some of your issues were specifically MycoFlora?




Just like drake was talking about above, you will face humidity and light issues.
You have to think about it from a plant/fungus perspective. They need literally polar opposite controls. Your mush house would need to be 50-80% shades, 80-95% humidity and constant fresh air. With plants you want almost no humidity, a slower release of fresh air, and full sun or you will run into a lot of fungal issues on your plant starts. With full sun in on your shrooms it will either bleach them or dry them out altogether.
You definitely do not need to spend 7,000 dollars on a mushroom greenhouse. most of the cost there is the concrete. Mine is made with pvc conduit, gravel floor, cheap but effective foggers, etc. It depends on your budget and scale though.
If you are going commercial with either you need a separate greenhouse for both.



yeah, honestly I was pretty appalled when Brian at WTF told me how much he borrowed to build that setup.  I spent less and got a bigger building that cranks out shrooms 365.  For $7,000 here anyway you could build out at least 1 cargo container or similar sized building.  I do understand his context though, he doesn't really have much of a market in the winter anyhow.  :shrug:



haha yea my eyes kind of popped out of my head when he went into cost of the structures they built:eek:. I feel like he skimped in a lot of areas and overspent in others, but hey I've been guilty of that before. Nature of running a farm I suppose.

OP, just a thought, have you considered just dividing/partitioning your grow structure? Two 30x30 areas for produce or mushrooms is enough to do either commercially.


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Offlinestray


Registered: 11/27/15
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: MycoFlora]
    #23928849 - 12/15/16 10:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Checked out the videos, great visual resource. I've been asking mycologist and cultivator friends here, (I'm in upstate NY) and no one I've spoken to knows any good examples of people cultivating in greenhouses commercially.

MycoFlora, in your opinion, what adjustments you make to WTF's setup?


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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23929451 - 12/15/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have grown in a Green house - a big ass commercial thing, no plants, whited out all the windows, built insulated rooms inside it. My advice...
Don't.


--------------------
Commercial exotics farmer for 8 years - now sold up!


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: stray]
    #23929454 - 12/15/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stray said:
Checked out the videos, great visual resource. I've been asking mycologist and cultivator friends here, (I'm in upstate NY) and no one I've spoken to knows any good examples of people cultivating in greenhouses commercially.

MycoFlora, in your opinion, what adjustments you make to WTF's setup?



Don't get me wrong, the guy has a great operation and it's very easy to be critical from a distance,that being said,for 7000 dollars a greenhouse you could easily modify and insulate a shipping container and it would be just as modular and functional.
Especially if you are in NY I dont think you could afford the cost of heating a passive solar greenhouse for most of the year. I am in the South and I barely get away with it.Our "winter" only lasts 3 months out of the year. It would probably cost him a lot to keep the operation running in the Canadian winters.
I just think if you're going to spend that much money it should be on a structure that is more functional.
If you want an example of someone growing commercially in a greenhouse look no further than Tradd Cotter. I'm pretty sure grows all of his oysters on poly logs in greenhouses. But that's only seasonally. You have to make some serious modifications to a poly greenhouse to grow year round, especially in your climate.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: MycoFlora]
    #23930970 - 12/15/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
Quote:

stray said:
Checked out the videos, great visual resource. I've been asking mycologist and cultivator friends here, (I'm in upstate NY) and no one I've spoken to knows any good examples of people cultivating in greenhouses commercially.

MycoFlora, in your opinion, what adjustments you make to WTF's setup?




If you want an example of someone growing commercially in a greenhouse look no further than Tradd Cotter. I'm pretty sure grows all of his oysters on poly logs in greenhouses. But that's only seasonally. You have to make some serious modifications to a poly greenhouse to grow year round, especially in your climate.




that man wrote a book, but he is no commercial cultivator


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InvisibleMycoFlora
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23931095 - 12/15/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I can't speak to what they are doing currently, but I've talked to him in great detail about their oyster greenhouses and sat through an entire presentation on them.
What makes you say that?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: MycoFlora]
    #23931131 - 12/15/16 10:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MycoFlora said:
I can't speak to what they are doing currently, but I've talked to him in great detail about their oyster greenhouses and sat through an entire presentation on them.
What makes you say that?



I just think he's more focused on R&D, selling spawn, talks, and pushing his book than commercial cultivation.  I'd say he's a beginner level commercial cultivator whether that's by choice or ignorance of modern methods.  I don't know.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23931632 - 12/16/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Mushrooms can very much so, be grown in a greenhouse.  No doubt about it - despite what others are claiming...(most of them likely never having attempted it)

OP isn't trying to just blow out an entire 30x60 greenhouse with mushies. It's in addition to his veggies already in production.

I know of many farmers who regularly grow log shiitake fruited in their greenhouse. And oysters will grow just about anywhere, as will lions mane IME.

Some methods will have to be adapted to suit your greenhouse/setup. And you'll have to play around with the best placement such as maybe fruiting under plant tables to utilize shade and humidity. There's lots of ideas and ways you can make greenhouse mushrooms happen.

But for the record, I''m mostly against vegetable farmers with fancy greenhouses and money to throw around who wanna slice of the mushroom pie for a seemly "easy" additional profit.. :goat:


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23931664 - 12/16/16 07:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

poofterFroth said:


But for the record, I''m mostly against vegetable farmers with fancy greenhouses and money to throw around who wanna slice of the mushroom pie for a seemly "easy" additional profit.. :goat:




yeah you know those vegetable farmers and their huge profits :lol:

You do know the government will literally GIVE YOU a fucking $10,000 greenhouse if you fill out a bunch of paperwork and wait? 

https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detailfull/national/programs/?cid=stelprdb1046250


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: poofterFroth]
    #23931694 - 12/16/16 08:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The greenhouse thing seems good, but shipping containers are cheap.
A 20 foot container backframed and insulated is a good option. You have a lot more environmental control year round. I use a screenhouse (walmart) for my 4th flush Oysters that can't take up any space indoors because of diminishing returns.

I can fit 200-250 3 pound Oyster blocks in 14 feet of one container. That produces 200-250 plus pounds of Oysters every 1.5 months. I have 2 containers also so that I can run Shiitake in one and Oyster in the other. You can grow them in the same space, I have done it quite a bit, but it's tricky and they can infect each other.

Moving forward, pouring and stick framing spaces seems better because in the end you back frame containers anyway.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: Crispykoot]
    #23931750 - 12/16/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:


Moving forward, pouring and stick framing spaces seems better because in the end you back frame containers anyway.




that's why I opted for a building.  Unless you can get refrigerated containers , by the time you build them out you could have built a bigger building.  If you can do some of the work yourself, metal buildings are incredibly cheap per sq ft.  Especially the aluminum framed "garage" type buildings, my wife and I put one up in a day. 

A lot of the cost of cargo containers is due to the fact that they are made of structural steel, I believe several thousand pounds of metal.  VS a few hundred for a similar sized sheet metal building.

http://watsonmetalsllc.com/pdf/GalvEconBrochureManchester.pdf


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: drake89]
    #23932143 - 12/16/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

Crispykoot said:


Moving forward, pouring and stick framing spaces seems better because in the end you back frame containers anyway.




that's why I opted for a building.  Unless you can get refrigerated containers , by the time you build them out you could have built a bigger building.  If you can do some of the work yourself, metal buildings are incredibly cheap per sq ft.  Especially the aluminum framed "garage" type buildings, my wife and I put one up in a day. 

A lot of the cost of cargo containers is due to the fact that they are made of structural steel, I believe several thousand pounds of metal.  VS a few hundred for a similar sized sheet metal building.

http://watsonmetalsllc.com/pdf/GalvEconBrochureManchester.pdf



The metal buildings are ok IMO. I have a quonset that I put up...Might be better in a more temperate climate like where you are. When you say aluminum framed, do you mean aluminum studs?


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OfflineCrispykoot
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: Crispykoot]
    #23932150 - 12/16/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry. Just checked the link...Little slow today.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Commercial cultivation in a greenhouse? [Re: Crispykoot]
    #23932195 - 12/16/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crispykoot said:
Sorry. Just checked the link...Little slow today.




if you're look for most sq ft for your $, I think a double walled insulated high tunnel/hoop house structure is the best bet.  assuming you aren't having super high winds.


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