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InvisibleAsante
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A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... * 1
    #23909314 - 12/09/16 07:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)




Food for thought.


.
Do you go beyond the drug effects into the spiritually profound realms?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (12/08/16 10:14 PM) to (No end specified)
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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: Asante]
    #23909393 - 12/09/16 07:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thats it. :thumbup:


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: Asante]
    #23909438 - 12/09/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If you manage something that is intended for a lifetime to understand, what are you left with beyond that? On a consciousness level, this is all uncharted territory. The land has been stepped on endlessly but the topography is so fluid that even the most talented cartographer wouldn't be able to accurately dictate the path needed.. I feel like without the guidance of praticed mindfulness that it is easy to get lost on your way, and as such is the reason some find these experiences to be so trying and negatively life changing.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: Asante]
    #23910907 - 12/09/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Even what they believe in eastern philosophy an spirituality pales in comparison to where tryptamines can take you.

They never talk about aliens, plants spirits, high realms etc. like what they're talking about in the Amazon where they use things like ayahuasca, mushrooms and salvia.


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23912883 - 12/10/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Pretty sure salvia grows in Mexico in the cloud forests there.

The amazon is in south America so unless it is being exported I am pretty sure you are lumping things together.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: musiclover420]
    #23912936 - 12/10/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

My bad that's just what I heard from Dan Hardy :shrug:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23912938 - 12/10/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

lol he is so wrong


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23912984 - 12/10/16 12:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Really? lol he says they take them in the jungle. Maybe he was talking about different jungles? There are jungles in Mexico you know.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23913366 - 12/10/16 02:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Even what they believe in eastern philosophy an spirituality pales in comparison to where tryptamines can take you.

They never talk about aliens, plants spirits, high realms etc. like what they're talking about in the Amazon where they use things like ayahuasca, mushrooms and salvia.




They absolutely do. It's not uncommon to hallucinate while meditating, you can see, hear, and feal entities, other realms, etc. At least from what I have read the emphasize to ignore these however and not to entertain them as they're not real, you also won't experience it until a fairly high level generally. For those two reasons is probably why it's not talked about much, if it's not real, you're not supposed to entertain it, and if it's at best a distraction from your practice why would they?


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23913489 - 12/10/16 03:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AuroraBorealis88 said:
Really? lol he says they take them in the jungle. Maybe he was talking about different jungles? There are jungles in Mexico you know.




There are definitely jungles in Mexico too just not the Amazon :lol:

As far as I am aware the use of salvia was pretty much entirely confined to Mexican natives until some scientists got clones and it started getting spread.

But that didn't happen until relatively recently. It's possible some natives brought it down south but it is a fickle plant to grow and would have been challenging to propagate elsewhere I imagine. Now a days people can keep it indoors and or mist it and use humidity domes which makes it easier to grow outside of its native habitat.

The south americans definitely used mushrooms along with Aya and occasionally datura and other various plants though.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23913767 - 12/10/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
They absolutely do. It's not uncommon to hallucinate while meditating, you can see, hear, and feal entities, other realms, etc. At least from what I have read the emphasize to ignore these however and not to entertain them as they're not real, you also won't experience it until a fairly high level generally. For those two reasons is probably why it's not talked about much, if it's not real, you're not supposed to entertain it, and if it's at best a distraction from your practice why would they?




I'm not trying to downplay everything they believe and I'm certainly not trying to downplay meditation.  I believe in meditation as a real and legitimate method for consciousness expansion and boundary dissolution. I do meditate and yes I have gotten visuals from it and almost dissociating experiences and experiences of novelty.
Not really saying you "can't" visit other realms with meditation but it's imo unbelievably difficult, unbelievably uncertain and extremely rare. And from what I've seen even people who get far with meditation simply have liberating mindful experiences and astral-like encounters but certainly nothing like what people encounter on ayahuasca and psilocybin. I mean who cares if meditation can give you hallucinations and astral experiences? Even most hallucinogens will not get you where the tryptamines can get you. I'm not saying meditation/yoga and eastern thinking aren't going in the right direction I just think it's like comparing weed to mushrooms. Sure weed may be pushing you there but it's highly unlikely if not impossible that it will get you all the way where mushrooms get you. Just because mushrooms take you farther though doesn't mean it's any more valid of an experience, what they say in the east still has validity imo.
Even people who meditate for decades typically can only get to the point where they can dissolve their boundaries and have out of body experiences while escaping the trap of the ego, they're not visiting sacred alien realms and encountering otherworldly insectoids made out of vibratory fields.

I see the things they believe in Eastern mysticism as boundary dissolving and going in the right general direction but not as the end result. It's on its way to heaven but not quite there imo. Now what they talk about in the Amazon basin where they take Ayahuasca and use DMT snuffs I see as the end result, the farthest you can go in this 3 dimensional realm I believe. 
I mean in the east how often do they even talk about things like entities and spirits and higher dimensions? I've never seen that. They never get much farther than boundary dissolving and suppressing the ego, getting in touch with nature, ect.

They don't talk about exploring and seeing new things like they do in the Amazon, not to mention they have dogmas in the east.
I agree with McKenna that in the east they're just not quite getting it and it always tends towards some kind of "unitary effulgence" or something instead of a world of "jeweled multiplicity" like they believe in the amazon.
I just find what they believe in eastern schools of thought to just be pedestrian in comparison to the way they see it in the jungle.

Quote:

musiclover40 said:
There are definitely jungles in Mexico too just not the Amazon :lol:




Yea the way Dan Hardy said it though he was implying that it was all the same jungle. And now that I think about it...he said Peru.

He was talking about the drugs in western society like sugar, caffeine and alcohol but you "go down to the Peru, in the jungles and people are doing ayahuasca, mushrooms salvia..."

So I don't know really.


Edited by AuroraBorealis88 (12/10/16 04:58 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23914046 - 12/10/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It seems to me that what you want out of the experience is not the same thing that eastern practitioners want out of it more so than them being unable to get there. They could tune their vehicle to reach those realms, but instead they prefer to tune it to be more suited for this one. On the other side shamans and the like tend to use their vehicles to get to other realms and so that practice appeals to you more as you want to get there as well. I guess my point is that I feel you might be judging the vehicle on the way you see it being driven more so than what is actually under the hood. On the other hand though I'm not really trying to change your mind or anything, if your vehicle gets you where you want and does a good job in doing so why does it matter?


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23914183 - 12/10/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I pretty much agree with you but then again I don't think it's so black and white. The vehicles may in fact be going to the same place it's just what we see as being the final destination may be different, but overall I agree with what you're saying.

Still though why if anything do the eastern thinkers seemingly ignore these other higher realms? Why are they so concerned with this one? This is the boring one.. Why no mention of the other ones? That's where the interesting stuff is, this realm to me is temporary but those realms are eternal.
Okay maybe this dimension isn't "temporary" but my time on it sure is. 

My goal is to explore and not only that but to explore outside of my humanness as well as outside of the 3rd dimension, I see no point in staying in the 3rd dimension when it comes to trying to form some kind of consensus on the spiritual or the supernatural. I'd rather go outside than inside, I think not trying to go outside is actually selfish because in that scenario you're being too concerned with this finite and apparently fleeting human world. I want to see the realm of the dead and what's possibly next not be aware of my chakras and the energies around me.

I look at it more with the attitude of the scientist than the attitude of some "gnostic" or morally disciplined individual.
I also agree with McKenna that "nothing works but drugs" and that's really the hard way of putting it.

Don't take it too literally though, I don't literally mean nothing works besides drugs but it's the only way for multiple people and groups to see first hand and to come to some kind of consensus. In the Amazon and even in Africa where they use Iboga they think it's ridiculous to believe in something or have faith in something that you haven't had a direct experience with. To them drugs are the only way because they give repeatable results, they deliver every time and they can actually share that experience with others.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23914329 - 12/10/16 07:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if I would say they are confined to this dimension. If enlightenment, oneness, transcendence, however you want to describe it, is their destination then you would probably agree that there is definitely something... eh.. I don't know, unbound? About that. Hopefully you can imagine what I'm trying to express. It exists outside of time and space, and your own being. Everyone's practice is different, but if we take that goal as an example then it's not boring at all. The practice may be boring a lot of the time, but not the experience, and the experience grows with the practice. It would be like saying the act of consuming mushrooms is boring. It is, but we don't eat them because it's exciting to put in our mouth but because of what happens after that lol. To me mushrooms are kind of like a portal to another dimension where as meditation is a way to build a bridge between them.

Also consider that much of what we hear about meditation is from those practicing it or teachers teaching the practice. We don't hear a whole lot of experienced people having crazy experiences because, as I perceive it, there's a humility and uncertainty that comes with it which keeps you from wanting to share it openly. It's really just like psychedelics. We might have a mind blowing experience one weekend that makes us reconnect with humanity, fills us with love, understanding, compassion, etc, and we may share them with a few close people or anonymously with like minded people on the internet, but we don't share them openly unless asked for fear of how it may affect others and in return our selves and community. I don't know about you, but in either account often times I don't even tell anyone. Imagine what westerners as a whole would think of eastern practices if they promoted that it lets you visit other worlds and crazy stuff. A lot of it, like psychedelics, is very personal too.


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InvisibleAstralAndrew
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: krypto2000]
    #23915976 - 12/11/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If you're interested in a really good book for making it not "unbelievably difficult"

Out of body experiences, how to have them and what to expect by Robert Peterson

I didn't have to try that long to start doing it. Just takes intention. It's a lot stronger than any substance I've done in ways of freaking you the fuck out in extremely weird ways.


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OfflineMinnesnowtaNice
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: AstralAndrew]
    #23916349 - 12/11/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Astral projection is my preferred method of exploring different realms without the use of drugs

Normal meditation haven't been as effective as other methods I've used either, simply because it takes years to fully master it and i jnow that's kind of the point, dissipline and hard work, it's not going to come easy.

Look up some methods on how to astral project, my experiences with it have almost always ended in a breakthrough with a loud popping noise, and float out of my body connected by a silver cord.


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InvisibleAstralAndrew
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Re: A Zen Master takes Psilocybin for research... [Re: MinnesnowtaNice]
    #23918727 - 12/12/16 07:00 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MinnesnowtaNice said:
Astral projection is my preferred method of exploring different realms without the use of drugs

Normal meditation haven't been as effective as other methods I've used either, simply because it takes years to fully master it and i jnow that's kind of the point, dissipline and hard work, it's not going to come easy.

Look up some methods on how to astral project, my experiences with it have almost always ended in a breakthrough with a loud popping noise, and float out of my body connected by a silver cord.



It's changed my life as well. After the use of psychedelics, simple mindfulness didn't really cut it for me. :shrug:


--------------------
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