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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: Crispykoot]
#23912948 - 12/10/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Small to medium scale farmers can and do grow grain sorghum in Canada, I've witnessed it, so everyone can just drop it with their little google searches. These direct to consumer farms that produce sorghum are not going to be listing their products online, that's not how they move their product. Cover crop "sorghum" is not actual sorghum, it's Sudangrass, a grass hybrid. Industrial farmers can and do spray round-up about 14 days before they harvest their wheat crop so that the combine does not harvest weeds. These things are regularly discussed at Nation Farmer Union meetings, nobody is denying these things take place. This is the internet, we're not going to be changing each other's minds lol.
Quote:
Crispykoot said: You don't need all certified inputs to operate under COR in Canada either. You do have to prove that said input is not prohibited and not available organically. That's how people use Amycel 3015 and can still be certified OG.
Our farm is already certified by probably the most stringent organic standards in all of Canada, IOPA. They actually adhere to the original meaning of organic: to take care of the soil and environment. "Not spraying" is the least stringent standard. We can't even use pressure treated lumber because somewhere down river from that facility, the environment is being damaged by the production of the chemicals used, and the pressure treatment process. Even if it's not our farm causing that damage, we can't be certified if we actively support those practices with our purchases. And I'm happy to pay for organic grain and straw, it would be extremely hypocritical for me not to support other farmers and producers that are also doing their best to care for their soil and the environment and the people they feed.
Crispy, were those moldy totes from Fieldstone, cause that's who I'm waiting to hear back from with a quote.
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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anthiawe
friendly stranger


Registered: 05/18/16
Posts: 652
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: flyontoast]
#23913023 - 12/10/16 12:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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corn, soy, and wheat dominate Canadian grain production. sorghum is a light weight, usually used for cover crop and silage, not grain. although i'm sure a few do grow it for grains.
either way, chaff is the point here and can be used in your substrate. I didn't google that, I've seen it
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: anthiawe]
#23913033 - 12/10/16 12:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: flyontoast]
#23913076 - 12/10/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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the straw I was using from my neighbor seemed like it was at least 25% chaff by volume. I think the combine shits it out on the stubble before they go back and mow it? Nobody around here planted much wheat last year or this year for that matter though. Hard for these old guys to find help baling. and wheat prices are in the shitter.
Anyway, I think you could go as high as 75% chaff without having issues...just a guess.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23913172 - 12/10/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gr0wer uses soy or soy products, I think he gets more yield or bigger fruits. Almost 100% sure soy has a higher N and protein content.
I use paper pellets that use soy based ink.
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: Ferather]
#23913466 - 12/10/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ferather said: Gr0wer uses soy or soy products, I think he gets more yield or bigger fruits. Almost 100% sure soy has a higher N and protein content.
I use paper pellets that use soy based ink.
Soy is almost never organic.
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: flyontoast]
#23913733 - 12/10/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Organic soy hull pellets, an example here (Canada).
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: Ferather]
#23914476 - 12/10/16 08:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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the title says chaffQuote:
Ferather said: Organic soy hull pellets, an example here (Canada).
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MorePies
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 808
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23914707 - 12/10/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey Drake, or anyone. Know anything about coffee chaff? I have been using it lately in small amounts and would like to make it a bigger part of my mix as it's free. I worry it might contain caffeine, caramelized sugar, or tannins that would inhibit mycelium in larger applications.
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: MorePies]
#23914829 - 12/10/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: Hey Drake, or anyone. Know anything about coffee chaff? I have been using it lately in small amounts and would like to make it a bigger part of my mix as it's free. I worry it might contain caffeine, caramelized sugar, or tannins that would inhibit mycelium in larger applications.
No I don't know, and I can't find aN analysis other than its similar to coffee grounds...
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23915335 - 12/11/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here you go, lots of data on coffee chaff. Pages 7 - 9 for analysis, enjoy.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: MorePies]
#23915349 - 12/11/16 07:02 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: I worry it might contain caffeine, caramelized sugar, or tannins that would inhibit mycelium in larger applications.
Caffeine is broken down into energy and N, Tannins into energy, the only issue is acidity.
Caffeine: C8 | H10 | N4 | O2. Tannins: C76 | H52 | O46.
Even high concentrate is no issue, see here.
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MorePies
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 808
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: Ferather]
#23915353 - 12/11/16 07:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said:
Quote:
MorePies said: Hey Drake, or anyone. Know anything about coffee chaff? I have been using it lately in small amounts and would like to make it a bigger part of my mix as it's free. I worry it might contain caffeine, caramelized sugar, or tannins that would inhibit mycelium in larger applications.
No I don't know, and I can't find aN analysis other than its similar to coffee grounds...
Quote:
Ferather said:
Here you go, lots of data on coffee chaff. Pages 7 - 9 for analysis, enjoy.
Guess I will have to run some trials and see. That's a great find for an analysis Ferather, thank you.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: MorePies]
#23915355 - 12/11/16 07:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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No problem, I've been told I am very resourceful, I blame my ADHD
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: Ferather]
#23916023 - 12/11/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for that link and data Ferather. MorePies, my buddy, does small-scale in a GH as part of a larger vege operation, has been growing on only straw for like 2 years started adding about 20-30% coffee chaff to his straw this season. He said it was a noticeable improvement. He does lime pasteurization.
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: flyontoast]
#23916079 - 12/11/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So wheat hulls are the same as bran or no? According to what I read they are. But it doesn't help that the words husk and hull are sometimes interchanged.
I'm guessing you're able to get the husks/chaff for cheap, and not the hull/bran?
Edited by drake89 (12/11/16 11:48 AM)
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23916178 - 12/11/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Chaff is the cover that holds the grains in the plant head. Wheat has bearded and none bearded ( whisker like) . Chaff is usually left in the field. Most reliable source of chaff is from a mill where they clean and fan the grain. This results in any residue that is not grain and even some cracked grain and weed seeds = chaff
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Edited by Quadman (12/11/16 12:30 PM)
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23916237 - 12/11/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
drake89 said: So wheat hulls are the same as bran or no? According to what I read they are. But it doesn't help that the words husk and hull are sometimes interchanged.
I'm guessing you're able to get the husks/chaff for cheap, and not the hull/bran?
My understanding is that chaff=husk=hull, but that different regions and different professions (farmer vs seed producer vs livestock feed) call each "hull" of each grain or seed differently. So, I don't reall hear people saying "bean husk" but rather bean hulls, but a farmer will call it a pod. In the age of the internet, wikipedia uses all of them interchangeably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husk And I think bran is what's removed when processing wheat into "refined wheat flour". So "whole wheat flour" still has the bran therefore is more nutritious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bran So bran is completely different from chaff/husk/hull (or at least to a baker it is lol)
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: flyontoast]
#23916405 - 12/11/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i have grown, picked, shelled, and de-hulled soy for making tempeh. the hulls are paper thin skin that holds the seeds together. that's what they use for pellets. I think the shells would be good for cold pasteurizing if you could get your hands on them.
I wonder if the chaff has enough "fluff" to use it as a substrate alone? have you tried?
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Quadman
Challenged


Registered: 04/23/16
Posts: 2,529
Loc: IL
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Grain hulls/chaff as substrate [Re: drake89]
#23916462 - 12/11/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bean hulls are just like popcorn hulls that stick in your teeth. Bean pods are just like pea pods and hold 2-4 soybeans. Pods stay in the field.
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