Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: Alyssa]
    #23910501 - 12/09/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Injustice is natural folks.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #23911304 - 12/09/16 07:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
He was a Bodhisattva and did not reach full enlightenment, otherwise he would have dropped to the ground and remained there until he expired from dehydration.




I guess this is a major difference between Buddhism and Taoism. In Taoism the enlightened man just fulfills his role within Nature. There's no need to make a big dramatic scene about it.

In Taoism is doesn't matter if your role is to do this or to do that, you just naturally do it (and thereby live and act in harmony with the Tao) or suffer.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23911394 - 12/09/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think it would be the opposite of dramatic to the enlightened, but is also a fiction to leave in such a way while the body is young, with only nirvana. Or to live in such a way with no mind.

But that doesn't mean I disagree with your comments on Tao, just that I doubt it's absolute absolution. I think The Buddha was taking the idea to it's logical conclusion as a matter of intellectual integrity. What's left is to have some humility and understanding for one's humanness.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #23911821 - 12/09/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering



the need to control is the root of suffering; and people are controlled by confusion, and confused by control.

the Tao, the Good Life, Do-Easy...all good perspectives to combat this necessity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23911957 - 12/10/16 01:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If I remember correctly the rationale might be as follows:

why is desire said to cause suffering?
simply because desire and contentment are opposed
thus desire does not cause suffering
it is suffering (especially by comparison with contentment and peace)

that is the logic

but in practice basic desires for water, food, air, & sleep etc do not cause problems,
whereas ones for the latest designer clothing that is supposed to be 'cool',
ultimately fail to satisfy
and also they
strengthen ego
and any satisfaction they give is temporary ... and then ....
so another desire arises which it is hoped will bring lasting satisfaction
and again any satisfaction given is temporary ... and so the search for happiness thru satisfying wants is endless

thus one could say true contentment, or the only contentment worth the name,
is contentment with that is undisturbed by moments of discontent.

thus one could say true patience, or the only patience worth the name,
is patience with that is undisturbed by moments of feeling some frustration.

Desire is a contraction, of the focus of attention
and with perhaps a subtle undercurrent of feeling of neediness
whereas...
Allowing space which accepts the world as it is, in the present moment, is a more mature attitude
as opposed to the contraction, bias & sense of urgency/irritation that accompanies desire.
Allowing and accepting are the same attitudes scientists attempt to cultivate as bias interfears with truth.

Many folks like to argue these ideas.
I do not propose to defend them.
this is only how I understand the idea at present.
YMMV
:smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledemiu5
humans, lol
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium Flag
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: laughingdog]
    #23913963 - 12/10/16 05:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering



the need to control is the root of suffering; and people are controlled by confusion, and confused by control.

the Tao, the Good Life, Do-Easy...all good perspectives to combat this necessity.






obsession has the tendency to control, or at least strongly influence, the one desiring control


Quote:

Alyssa said:
The sole root of suffering is necessity.





humor me: would this apply if you didn't have a fully or properly functioning Central or Peripheral nervous system?  or a mental disability located within regions of the brain that process emotions?  if one is incapable of experiencing suffering, it would clearly not be "a necessity."



Quote:

laughingdog said:
If I remember correctly the rationale might be as follows:

why is desire said to cause suffering?
simply because desire and contentment are opposed
thus desire does not cause suffering
it is suffering (especially by comparison with contentment and peace)

that is the logic





something along the lines of :yinyang:?


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
    #23914002 - 12/10/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

obsession has the tendency to control, or at least strongly influence, the one desiring control




:super: fair point.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: laughingdog]
    #23914300 - 12/10/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23914400 - 12/10/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

how do we define desire?

the thought: "it might be nice to have a cookie"
hardly qualifies
the next thought might be: "perhaps I'd rather have a piece of pie"

perhaps there has to be a choice or focus
plus the idea that future satisfaction, that is presently lacking, will be gained
plus the idea that this satisfaction will increase personal happiness

thus the argument that simple needs and wants, such as, for water or simple food
are harmless as here there is no expectation of increasing happiness by satisfying them
and no sense of lacking anything necessary for happiness in becoming aware of simple
necessary or basic animal functions

but when unnecessary luxury items, for example, are longed for
we overlook that we are creating feelings of lack in ourselves
and by focusing on the desired item, missing much of life in the present

even in meditation
one can turn meditation into striving, for improvement or enlightenment (or the activity of desiring)
hence the saying:
"Enlightenment is not the liberation of the self,
Rather, enlightenment is  liberation from the self.

and again the same idea is in this saying:
"There is no way to happiness,
happiness is the way"
and
peace, love, enlightenment, contentment, patience, forgiveness, and mindfulness , etc.
may all be substituted for
the word 'happiness' in the above.

it seems to me that perhaps what is hinted at
is that hidden within desire,
is a subtle shortchanging of both our power and responsibility.

thus we could try out some more words:
"There is no way to responsibility,
responsibility is the way"

and if I consider this experiment:

"There is no way to overcoming procrastination,
promptness is the way"

Then desire appears as a form of procrastination, and self disempowerment.
thus
"I must have a cadillac better than Robert's."
is perhaps really
"I won't allow myself to be happy till I have a cadillac better than Robert's."
here one has both denied one's ability to be spontaneously happy, and delayed it's happening for most likely, a long time.

Maybe the olympics are an example of folks attaching great emotional importance, to an event of very short duration, far ahead in the future, that is totally irrelevant to what makes life meaningful: human relations, expanding awareness, and compassion. These days where the the differences between prizes are only hundredths of a second, the example seems even more stark.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevirtuous_babe
Stranger
I'm a teapot


Registered: 12/16/15
Posts: 37
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5] * 2
    #23914690 - 12/10/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i kinda take the buddhist route on this matter. i feel as though ignorance is the ultimate root of suffering. Ignorance of things like impermanence causes us to make attachments to things that will inevitably leave us in some way, from objects to relationships to a way of life... Disunion between what we want and what we get makes us feel jealousy, anger, sadness, frustration, anxiety, fear, etc...


--------------------
all that may be wished for will by nature fade to nothing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: virtuous_babe]
    #23914818 - 12/10/16 10:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I like what you said about 'ignorance of things like impermanence', I think not knowing what goes on in reality can be a burden.

I seem to think that anxieties are influenced by our expectations, to me thoughts are like sitting on a train and once you've started it can be difficult to stop or change what you're thinking of. That's why I think it's important to try and stop yourself from entering negative thought cycles by 'staying at the train station' instead of getting on a thought line and sticking to it because in my experience that has often led me to a cycle of negativity and self doubt.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: virtuous_babe]
    #23914933 - 12/10/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

virtuous_babe said:
....ignorance of things like impermanence causes us to make attachments to things that will inevitably leave us in some way, from objects to relationships to a way of life... Disunion between what we want and what we get makes us feel jealousy, anger, sadness, frustration, anxiety, fear, etc...




impermanence is of course a factor at a deeper level as is non-self
and as you say because of these factors, manifest phenomenon, cannot provide lasting satisfaction

of course consumerism, public relations, and advertising work in the opposite direction in our culture attempting to turn 'wants' into 'needs', for the benefit of the 'consumer economy' and the wealthy and powerful owners of the corporations. One has only to look at our 'culture' to see how successful they have been. Not just the culture, in the sense of fashion, movies, car models, values, opinions--but even also the entire urban landscape in the USA which is a monument to ugliness--the logarithmic rise of the franchises after 1955 turned the country into an homogeneous mass, removing individual character from idiosyncratic locales--travel a thousand miles and the next city and strip mall look the same. We grow up with it and often take it all for granted unless we travel to the old cities of Europe or poorer countries. Then when returning home to the USA the horror of it may strike us.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlyssa
consecrated woman ✝️
Female
Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 6 days, 56 minutes
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: laughingdog]
    #23915602 - 12/11/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Suffering due to the desire for unnecessary things is a psychological pitfall that can be avoided through logic and reason. If you have all your physiological and intellectual necessities satisfied, you should be in a state of profound emotional well-being. Society tricks people into focusing on that which is external to the body and mind, creating desire and hence suffering where there should be none. Whatever it is you want and don't need, just compare your situation to someone suffering from hunger or chronic physical pain.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: virtuous_babe] * 1
    #23916428 - 12/11/16 02:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

virtuous_babe said:
i kinda take the buddhist route on this matter. i feel as though ignorance is the ultimate root of suffering. Ignorance of things like impermanence causes us to make attachments to things that will inevitably leave us in some way, from objects to relationships to a way of life... Disunion between what we want and what we get makes us feel jealousy, anger, sadness, frustration, anxiety, fear, etc...




I agree with this - life is suffering, but then life is ignorance in a certain way. To be alive is to be ignorant of all other potentials apart from your own life.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor]
    #23916622 - 12/11/16 03:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the three roots of negative karma in Buddhism are
1. Hatred, 2. Greed, and 3. Delusion.

All three are Errors that when mixed in with your mental contents provide a source for action (karma) that will carry negative impacts.

the recipe for these, are the roots of good karma.
1. Loving Kindness, 2. Generosity, and 3. Wisdom.

suffering is the essence of bad karma results, and the kernel of suffering in Buddhism is Pain.

this is from the analysis of mind moments in ABHIDHAMMA, while the more pedestrian Wheel of Life issue presents a cycle of rebirth in which desire and attachment have some play.

Personally I do not see that Desire is in any way a bad thing, and I think attachment is fundamental to all things in mind which works associatively. In this area, attachment that resolves as obsession or OCD is very painful.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23916652 - 12/11/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i've given lots of loving kindness, generosity and wisdom...i used to let my band stay over practically any day of the week (and O they did), have my room, my couch, my beds (i had two), my weed, my MDMA (i gave away so much MDMA), my time- in order to play, and make music, and watch films, and discuss philosophy, the media, i helped influenced my friend to even get into audio engineering and media due to alot of this time spent (i can't take credit for his decisions, but i'm glad to have helped influence him- he's the only one that "did his thing" and never gave up, so i'm happy for him), i gave people so much of me....and they shat the bed (save that one friend, aforementioned) and basically fucked-off on me, after 5-6 years of this a-constant.

i still feel pain.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23916957 - 12/11/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What do you think of the informal definition of karma?
Quote:

karma:
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.

informal:
good or bad luck, viewed as resulting from one's actions.




Because isn't karma the result of your present actions and not those of lives you may have or could have had? 


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (12/11/16 04:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevirtuous_babe
Stranger
I'm a teapot


Registered: 12/16/15
Posts: 37
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23923780 - 12/13/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i think ignorance is a natural part of the human condition. our instinct is to be selfish and to only understand ourselves, to only take care of ourselves. But defeating that instinct, defeating ignorance, is the path to peace


--------------------
all that may be wished for will by nature fade to nothing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,810
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: virtuous_babe]
    #23923812 - 12/13/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefinalexplosion
Stranger
Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 370
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: sudly]
    #23933475 - 12/16/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

its discontentment. Look at the marriage/divorce stat or worse, the amount initiated by women followed by carousel 2.0.


--------------------
The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Desire
( 1 2 3 all )
Ravus 3,148 44 08/25/04 11:05 AM
by deff
* Desire MJF 1,375 18 07/30/05 06:53 AM
by OldWoodSpecter
* Jealousy: everying serves usefull purpose? where does it fit
( 1 2 all )
bandaid 2,470 23 09/14/04 07:34 PM
by deff
* Sprituality no defense against depression/suffering
( 1 2 all )
lucid 3,354 29 08/05/04 09:00 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Are We To Live in Bliss or Suffering? sox24 916 8 07/21/04 08:15 AM
by kaiowas
* Money is the root of all evil, not merely a "tool"....
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Lightningfractal 5,125 74 03/17/04 06:04 PM
by Lightningfractal
* Transforming Desire egghead1 1,030 7 03/11/05 04:14 PM
by redgreenvines
* Suffering & the End of Suffering SkorpivoMusterion 764 2 11/28/04 04:09 PM
by JacquesCousteau

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,398 topic views. 0 members, 20 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.