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demiu5
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Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering 1
#23907197 - 12/08/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering. Obsession is one root, and SPECIFICALLY the desire to instill one's will on anyone or anything outside of oneself is another root. As for the latter root, one could even go so far as to say: AND the desire to instill one's will upon one's own self outside the realms of realistic (which is to say guided by natural properties or laws) physicality...
Intentionally left out of the addendum to the latter root is emotionality. This is because 1) virtually, if not all emotions are malleable, even under the most excruciating of conditions, through both emotional and/or physical means, and 2) many forms of emotion, for the intent and purposes of this discussion, would fall back under the category of obsession.
Are there any other roots you could/would care to add?
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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zZZz
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23907466 - 12/08/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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imho,
desire leads to jealousy, jealously leads to anger, and anger leads to suffering..
but then u have to wonder, what leads one to desire?.. temptation perhaps?.. an idea?..
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: zZZz] 2
#23907602 - 12/08/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zZZz said: imho,
desire leads to jealousy, jealously leads to anger, and anger leads to suffering..
but then u have to wonder, what leads one to desire?.. temptation perhaps?.. an idea?..
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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sudly
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23907796 - 12/08/16 05:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering. Obsession is one root, and SPECIFICALLY the desire to instill one's will on anyone or anything outside of oneself is another root. As for the latter root, one could even go so far as to say: AND the desire to instill one's will upon one's own self outside the realms of realistic (which is to say guided by natural properties or laws) physicality...
I like.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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yeah



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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: zZZz]
#23907935 - 12/08/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I divide desire into two categories. Pure and unpure.
You know a desire is pure if it never goes away. Then, you have to exert your will to manifest it, or else suffer.
--------------------
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demiu5
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: yeah]
#23908284 - 12/08/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said: I divide desire into two categories. Pure and unpure.
You know a desire is pure if it never goes away. Then, you have to exert your will to manifest it, or else suffer.
i like this, in a way.
i will ponder a more thorough response. probably won't have net access tomorrow, but in due time.
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23908314 - 12/08/16 08:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Craving
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Khancious
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23908322 - 12/08/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's the distinction in flavor when in a sexual dance with a partner and the chemistry is mutual? Does the beam tip towards desire or obsession, or does it just fall into the ocean of primordial force?
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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viktor
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: yeah]
#23908377 - 12/08/16 08:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said: You know a desire is pure if it never goes away. Then, you have to exert your will to manifest it, or else suffer.
I dunno about this. This sounds like it leads to the "twin flame" bullshit that just causes so much needless misery to the gullible.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor]
#23908877 - 12/08/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
yeah said: You know a desire is pure if it never goes away. Then, you have to exert your will to manifest it, or else suffer.
I dunno about this. This sounds like it leads to the "twin flame" bullshit that just causes so much needless misery to the gullible.
it does not hold because some people can grow a desire for something that is self destructive, etc.
Aka someone with a ferocious drug addiction, someone with a homicidal fantasy etc.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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viktor
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23909101 - 12/09/16 03:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sure, I've had repeated, intrusive, intense-as-fuck homicidal fantasies for the last 20 years. I'm on antipsychotics for them.
Luckily I don't consider them pure though.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor] 1
#23909497 - 12/09/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seems like we're looking for caveats or a way to make some desires okay. If you're okay with a desire, then it's okay. There's nobody at the top to tell you otherwise though I think if we're honest all desires contain some component of suffering.
Also, the items listed in the OP are just different types of desires. No need to make things more complex than they already are.
The phrase "desire is the root of suffering" is a hard line stance but also very honest. Us humans don't get to experience nirvana in a static way and we're going to suffer. If we could vanquish all desire we would no longer suffer... but we don't want that. To be human or not to be human is the question. The answer for basically 100% of the population is to be human. Even those who say they don't want to be human still want to be human. They're just lying to themselves, a sure sign of a desire.
I guess a good question for the thread would be, is physical pain without a desire for it's end a type of suffering? If there was no mental anguish would it be suffering? Would it hurt? Is hurt suffering?
Final note: According to the Buddha's words he contradicted his enlightenment by continuing to eat food and drink water, and doing everything else he did. He indicated that he remained on Earth not for himself, but to help others end their suffering. That is a desire. He was a Bodhisattva and did not reach full enlightenment, otherwise he would have dropped to the ground and remained there until he expired from dehydration.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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demiu5
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: yeah]
#23909927 - 12/09/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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yeah: i would like to add to your "pure and impure" concept. Both pure and impure have two branches in relation to their duration in the mind, 1) active, and 2) passive. Some things exist actively in the mind, such as the desire for nourishment or a relative degree of comfort (think temperature or staying dry), while others wax and wane based on any given number of conditions, such as the desire to "go home" that often nears towards the end of a work day [away from one's home, for you unlucky bastards ].
Another distinction came to mind last nite. After much thought, i determined that obsession and the inability of "letting go" are not the same. Personal example: i'm not obsessed with my deceased cat, friend, and adventure buddy. i do not consciously think about her every day; sometimes many days pass with her memory not appearing consciously or subconciously. However i miss the hell out of her, wish there was some way she was physically here alive, and dream about her weekly (she died a year and a half ago). No aspect of my life, though, comes to a halt when her memory arises. I can appreciate that she is no longer bound to this world in flesh without being sad.
Quote:
zZZz said imho, desire leads to jealousy, jealously leads to anger, and anger leads to suffering..
i really like yeah's distinction of pure and impure desire, pure being static, impure being temporary. In reference to the above quote using those distinctions, i would say both jealousy and anger have the tendency to be either but are much more likely to be impure. Anger especially, i feel, is most often impure due to the amount of energy anger "takes" and physical/emotional duress that is often induced as a result of anger. It is hard to maintain, actively at least, for extended periods of time. That being said, i think anger, though not static, can survive longer in the mind than jealousy, often lying dormant for years or decades before being triggered. Further, anger has the potential to be healed through acceptance, understanding, and forgiveness; whereas jealousy is less likely to result in a positive or neutral outcome, and either festers or subsides having taken its emotional toll.
Quote:
but then u have to wonder, what leads one to desire?.. temptation perhaps?.. an idea?..
i think both.
idea ------> jealousy temptation ------> idea ------> jealousy what about those awkward years of puberty where, seemingly, no thoughts or temptations that could be associated with sexual desire arise, yet hormonal/cardiovascular tendencies at that period result in sexual arousal that then leads to either an idea of... or directly to temptation? (such as hormones ------> horny ------> touching oneself/masturbation [being the temptation])
it's funny you bring up jealousy, as before the base idea arose that sprung into this thread, i had almost completed a fairly long-winded post concerning status and jealousy. instead of devoting a new thread to it as was originally intended, it will exist here:
This is a long round-trip, so please bare with me.
What is the mentality or drive, if any, outside the desire for power over another and/or for accumulation of physical resources/possessions, that creates, cultivates, and spawns status? How is it that the majority of humans, myself included, cannot fully move past physical/emotional jealousy? To further obscure this, I can slightly differentiate between desire and jealousy; jealousy = desire BUT desire =/= jealousy.
Even among young children interacting, with little way to comprehend the complexities of current socio-status or socio-political systems, it can be seen: one child having an object while another child does not. The "does not" child, on the basis of not having, proceeds to [attempt to] take possession of the other child's object. Sometimes the child maintains interest in the item but, more often than not, the child quickly loses interest in the object and discards it, being content once again as a "does not" child. Why is it that, after executing its will, the child becomes content in both children being "not having?" Would either child be content if they both were "have" children, or would one still want more?
Certainly this is not always the case. There exists the potential for a plethora of other factors to be at play. One being base animal dominance with physical size/strength as a factor; are infantile children (maybe at this age they would be considered toddlers?....i don't know proper terminology on this matter) so aware of their own bodies, as well as the bodies of others around them, that they are able to determine potential outcomes such as this? Another would be that the child is incredibly observant of their surroundings at home, witnessing parents, siblings, etc. physically struggling over objects themselves, assimilates this as normal, "acceptable" behavior, and consequently acts in the same manner; though at this point, one must wonder if it is then actually about desiring an object, simply behaving as one accepts/expects others [to] do, or both. Further, what if desire OF an object is not the situation at all, rather a curiosity to explore one's surroundings, especially at that developmental of an age, so strongly that others are outright disregarded along the pathway to exploring that curiosity; possessing the object is a means to an end of learning.
In relation to "wanting more", i see first-hand the destruction of land, relationships, mass-consumption of both renewable and non-renewable resources, soil degradation, water(shed) degradation including habitat, disrespect towards fellow citizens, disrespect for the safety of others (by and towards motorists, pedestrians, cyclists), and on and on, all because an overwhelming majority of people in this "community" can't establish, if even conceive of, when "enough is enough", that there is even a point of satiation. By "enough is enough", I mean when one has more resources (financial, geographic, physical-possessions, sexual) than is needed to meet or exceed their own lives; maybe this includes their childrens' lives; or maybe their grandchildrens' lives; all things in parentheses above are chronically associated with status. This is just in the name of cannabis, one industry, within one few-square-mile locality and doesn't even account for the tens-of-thousands of acres that are actively being logged with all that results in.
Does status = power? It is not direct physical assertion, but a socio-emotional assertion, internally and, upon occasion, externally, validated most often through any form of accumulation of wealth, be it food/water, other natural resources, physical "products" of varying industries, tattoos, large anteriors or posteriors, greying hair?. How does this translate? Is it merely similar to fiat currencies, in which the basis for it's existence, implementation, and impact is an overarching agreement among a mass of people, whether they are aware of their acceptance of the agreement or not?
Edited by demiu5 (12/09/16 11:59 AM)
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: viktor] 1
#23909957 - 12/09/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
yeah said: You know a desire is pure if it never goes away. Then, you have to exert your will to manifest it, or else suffer.
I dunno about this. This sounds like it leads to the "twin flame" bullshit that just causes so much needless misery to the gullible.
How dare you insinuate that OC is somehow gullible. And how dare you imply that his misery is somehow needless.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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demiu5
humans, lol


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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23909968 - 12/09/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Craving
personally, i would place craving under obsession, even though it may be short- or long-term. if you can expound upon this, i'd be consider to dig up the plant and gorilla-glue an additional root
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
Edited by demiu5 (12/09/16 12:55 PM)
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering *DELETED* [Re: demiu5]
#23910151 - 12/09/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by LunarEclipseReason for deletion: none
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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demiu5
humans, lol


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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23910207 - 12/09/16 01:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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i can't wait for my vacation so i can watch all these videos that everyone keeps uploading with no context
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23910223 - 12/09/16 01:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
demiu5 said: i can't wait for my vacation so i can watch all these videos that everyone keeps uploading with no context

Me too. I just wish I had a vacation, that's what I desire.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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demiu5
humans, lol


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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23910310 - 12/09/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
demiu5 said: i can't wait for my vacation so i can watch all these videos that everyone keeps uploading with no context

Me too. I just wish I had a vacation, that's what I desire.
after you "retire" from your landlord duties, what will be stopping you? my last "vacation" wasn't a vacation, as the few days i had not de-hoarding a house was spent being sick from de-hoarding a house. nothing like flying on a plane with a major sinus infection....wahooo!
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Alyssa
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Re: Desire is not the [sole] root of suffering [Re: demiu5]
#23910447 - 12/09/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The sole root of suffering is necessity.
-------------------- I'm Alyssa. I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.
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