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Offlinemisterjingo
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Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction * 1
    #23906323 - 12/08/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2589167

Quote:


Importance  Because cannabis use is a major public health concern and cannabis is known to act on central neurotransmission, studying the retinal ganglion cells in individuals who regularly use cannabis is of interest.

Objective  To determine whether the regular use of cannabis could alter the function of retinal ganglion cells in humans.

Design, Setting, and Participants  For this case-control study, individuals who regularly use cannabis, as well as healthy controls, were recruited, and data were collected from February 11 to October 28, 2014. Retinal function was used as a direct marker of brain neurotransmission abnormalities in complex mental phenomena.

Main Outcomes and Measures  Amplitude and implicit time of the N95 wave on results of pattern electroretinography.

Results  Twenty-eight of the 52 participants were regular cannabis users (24 men and 4 women; median age, 22 years [95% CI, 21-24 years]), and the remaining 24 were controls (20 men and 4 women; median age, 24 years [95% CI, 23-27 years]). There was no difference between groups in terms of age (P = .13) or sex (P = .81). After adjustment for the number of years of education and alcohol use, there was a significant increase for cannabis users of the N95 implicit time on results of pattern electroretinography (median, 98.6 milliseconds [95% CI, 93.4-99.5]) compared with controls (median, 88.4 milliseconds [95% CI, 85.0-91.1]), with 8.4 milliseconds as the median of the differences (95% CI, 4.9-11.5; P < .001, Wald logistic regression). A receiver operating characteristic curve analysis (area under the curve, 0.84 [95% CI, 0.73-0.95]; P < .001) revealed, for a cutoff value of 91.13 milliseconds, a sensitivity of 78.6% (95% CI, 60.5%-89.8%) and a specificity of 75.0% (95% CI, 55.1%-88.0%) for correctly classifying both cannabis users and controls in their corresponding group. The positive predictive value was 78.6% (95% CI, 60.5%-89.8%), and the negative predictive value was 75.0% (95% CI, 55.1%-88.0%).

Conclusions and Relevance  Our results demonstrate a delay in transmission of action potentials by the ganglion cells in regular cannabis users, which could support alterations in vision. Our findings may be important from a public health perspective since they could highlight the neurotoxic effects of cannabis use on the central nervous system as a result of how it affects retinal processing.




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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: misterjingo] * 1
    #23907196 - 12/08/16 02:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Who cares? Alcohol is bad for you, and people do it all the time.

Beyond that, the study sample size is much too small to meaningfully draw any conclusions.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: nooneman]
    #23907354 - 12/08/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Who cares? Alcohol is bad for you, and people do it all the time.

Beyond that, the study sample size is much too small to meaningfully draw any conclusions.



And just from a user's perspective, I've never even heard of a story of a guy who smoked weed regularly having trouble with his vision later in life. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but I find it hard to believe its significant enough to matter. Its still a thousand times safer than Tylenol and they give that to small children


--------------------


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: nooneman]
    #23907372 - 12/08/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:


Beyond that, the study sample size is much too small to meaningfully draw any conclusions.




Based on what?

The sample size is based on the magnitude of the effect.  A sample of 52 might be more than adequate, depending on what you're trying to measure.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: misterjingo]
    #23907686 - 12/08/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

my vision does get more blurry when im stoned.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23907770 - 12/08/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
my vision does get more blurry when im stoned.



Well yea its called impairment, they're talking about permanent damage to your vision


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23907811 - 12/08/16 05:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

true

Why does the impairment happen?

I also sometimes think the "blurriness" has lasted beyond the time that im high but i cant be sure.

I hope this isnt as bad as it sounds


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23907825 - 12/08/16 05:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
true

Why does the impairment happen?

I also sometimes think the "blurriness" has lasted beyond the time that im high but i cant be sure.

I hope this isnt as bad as it sounds



When I'm super hungover I have this cloudiness in my brain thats kinda scary. I can forget something mid-THOUGHT, let alone mid-sentence. But I've taken total substance breaks and after a couple weeks it all goes away. So I stopped worrying


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23907848 - 12/08/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i've had a pretty persistent brain fog lately that has me concerned.

what with BPAs and flouride and so much other shit that is rumored to cause neurological problems, i am starting to become paranoid.

So far, a change of diet and supplementing shark cartilage seems to be helping.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle] * 1
    #23907863 - 12/08/16 05:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
i've had a pretty persistent brain fog lately that has me concerned.

what with BPAs and flouride and so much other shit that is rumored to cause neurological problems, i am starting to become paranoid.

So far, a change of diet and supplementing shark cartilage seems to be helping.



Wow, really, after years of hard drug use you're gonna go ahead and blame BPAs?

Alright brother, you do you


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23907891 - 12/08/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

it doesn't sound like much of an impairment.

Maybe i'm not reading the article right, but it sounds like they are describing a median 8.4 millisecond delay in visual data transfer from the eye to the brain. which seems negligible.  here is an audio reference for milliseconds:



Quote:

The study suggests that while the images are seen for only 13 milliseconds before the next image appears, part of the brain continues to process those images for longer than that.
‘If images were wiped out after 13 milliseconds, people would never be able to respond positively after the sequence. There has to be something in the brain that has maintained that information at least that long,’ Professor Potter said.
She previously found that humans can correctly identify images seen for as little as 100 milliseconds, but her new research suggests we can do this almost eight times faster.
In the new study, the researchers gradually increased the speed of images until they reached a point where subjects’ answers were no better than if they were guessing.
The MIT team found that although overall performance declined, subjects continued to perform better than chance as the researchers gradually decreased the image exposure time from 80 milliseconds to 13 milliseconds, which was the fastest possible rate with the computer monitor being used.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2542583/Scientists-record-fastest-time-human-image-takes-just-13-milliseconds.html#ixzz4SIWfQW4e
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




yeah, i think 8 milliseconds is probably no big deal.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23907940 - 12/08/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
Quote:

Apostle said:
i've had a pretty persistent brain fog lately that has me concerned.

what with BPAs and flouride and so much other shit that is rumored to cause neurological problems, i am starting to become paranoid.

So far, a change of diet and supplementing shark cartilage seems to be helping.



Wow, really, after years of hard drug use you're gonna go ahead and blame BPAs?

Alright brother, you do you



i abuse opiods and those are known to be benign.


I do suspect marijuana abuse played a role but i can say with near 100% certainty that opiods did not. Especially not passed the point of withdrawal. which i am.

these BPAs and other dioxins are proven to be harmful so drug abuser or not,its not too farfetched to believe they are at least partly responsible.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle] * 1
    #23907987 - 12/08/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Alright man, I wont try to dissuade you. Im telling you its from your drug abuse, its pretty much a fact, but you've obviously decided its from a magical destructive outside source so I won't keep arguing. If you stay sober you're on the right track so idgaf


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23908050 - 12/08/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Magical? they are proven to be harmful.

Does abusing drugs suddenly negate any other possible causes of health problems. proven ones even?

i don't follow you exactly.


I admit that some drugs, specifically weed and stimulants, may have damaged my brain but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that opiates were the culprit. And being that opiods were my primary drug of choice its not unreasonable that i look for a more substantiated cause of my issues.

its pretty much a fact? Cmon now.


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Offlinesunshine
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23908215 - 12/08/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

We need a study of Jamaicans just like we did for lung cancer.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23908255 - 12/08/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apostle said:
Magical? they are proven to be harmful.

Does abusing drugs suddenly negate any other possible causes of health problems. proven ones even?

i don't follow you exactly.


I admit that some drugs, specifically weed and stimulants, may have damaged my brain but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that opiates were the culprit. And being that opiods were my primary drug of choice its not unreasonable that i look for a more substantiated cause of my issues.

its pretty much a fact? Cmon now.



I could present a literal billion accounts of people who abused large amounts of almost any drug for long periods of time and experienced negative long-term effects. If you could find 100 verifiable accounts of BPAs being solely responsible for somebody's illness I'll eat my laptop. Its called playing the odds


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlinesunshine
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23908271 - 12/08/16 07:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The Jamaicans didn't get lung cancer from smoking ganja.


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One Love True Indeed.  Have Good Trips.  Mike/sunshine's mom.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23909643 - 12/09/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

if you show me compromised mental capacity from opiate abuse then i will be a believer.


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Offlinedjbluntmagic
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23909647 - 12/09/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ITT: rationalizations


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: djbluntmagic]
    #23909673 - 12/09/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

there is a tendency to ignore other possible factors whenever assessing a drug abuser. The go-to explanation is to blame the drugs despite knowing nothing about my consumption rate, the specific drugs i've used etc...

meanwhile we live in a world where we are bombarded by chemicals that are proven to be harmful and i am wrong to think that maybe they've caused some complications?

I do, however, question whether opiate abuse can compromise ones mental capacity permanently. From what i know the only long term effect is reduced testosterone levels and that's with chronic long term abuse/use.

There is some good news though, i don't feel the "fogginess" much any more and i think exercise and diet have played a role in that. i also haven't been smoking weed.

Weed is a touchy subject for me because deep down i know it probably has plenty of negative effects on my cognitive function but it helps so much with boredom/depression that i feel it's worth the trade off.

I guess only time will tell.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Apostle]
    #23910062 - 12/09/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I hate this thread.


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OfflineApostle
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23910149 - 12/09/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

oops


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: badchad]
    #23910919 - 12/09/16 05:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

nooneman said:


Beyond that, the study sample size is much too small to meaningfully draw any conclusions.




Based on what?

The sample size is based on the magnitude of the effect.  A sample of 52 might be more than adequate, depending on what you're trying to measure.



I meant you can't generalize from a group of 52 people to the population of the united states, but you can with a couple thousand.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: nooneman]
    #23911400 - 12/09/16 08:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

nooneman said:


Beyond that, the study sample size is much too small to meaningfully draw any conclusions.




Based on what?

The sample size is based on the magnitude of the effect.  A sample of 52 might be more than adequate, depending on what you're trying to measure.



I meant you can't generalize from a group of 52 people to the population of the united states, but you can with a couple thousand.



Actually you're wrong, it just so happens its almost impossible to get a reliable sample at 52 people. Theres just too much bias with race, age, location, etc. I assure you there are less than 52 kinds of people in this world, there will always be a 1 in a million but most people are pretty much the same


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlineniteman
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23914901 - 12/10/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not against debate but it worries me when every time a scientific (and I do use the term rather liberally) article concerning ANY possible negatives of cannabis use is crapped all over. I love weed and have never experienced anything negative other than a little anxiety after cessation but I also am not a scientist or medical professional. I mean everything has negatives and it is a bit naive to put anything on a pedestal and declare it an infallible wonder drug. It is important to be able to accept criticisms or at least consider possibilities otherwise we are no better than the ignorant pro-drugwar/antidrug folks...imo


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: niteman]
    #23914918 - 12/10/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteman said:
I'm not against debate but it worries me when every time a scientific (and I do use the term rather liberally) article concerning ANY possible negatives of cannabis use is crapped all over. I love weed and have never experienced anything negative other than a little anxiety after cessation but I also am not a scientist or medical professional. I mean everything has negatives and it is a bit naive to put anything on a pedestal and declare it an infallible wonder drug. It is important to be able to accept criticisms or at least consider possibilities otherwise we are no better than the ignorant pro-drugwar/antidrug folks...imo




Quote:

ballsalsa said:
it doesn't sound like much of an impairment.

Maybe i'm not reading the article right, but it sounds like they are describing a median 8.4 millisecond delay in visual data transfer from the eye to the brain. which seems negligible.  here is an audio reference for milliseconds:



Quote:

The study suggests that while the images are seen for only 13 milliseconds before the next image appears, part of the brain continues to process those images for longer than that.
‘If images were wiped out after 13 milliseconds, people would never be able to respond positively after the sequence. There has to be something in the brain that has maintained that information at least that long,’ Professor Potter said.
She previously found that humans can correctly identify images seen for as little as 100 milliseconds, but her new research suggests we can do this almost eight times faster.
In the new study, the researchers gradually increased the speed of images until they reached a point where subjects’ answers were no better than if they were guessing.
The MIT team found that although overall performance declined, subjects continued to perform better than chance as the researchers gradually decreased the image exposure time from 80 milliseconds to 13 milliseconds, which was the fastest possible rate with the computer monitor being used.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2542583/Scientists-record-fastest-time-human-image-takes-just-13-milliseconds.html#ixzz4SIWfQW4e
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




yeah, i think 8 milliseconds is probably no big deal.




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Offlineniteman
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23914972 - 12/10/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Not sure if you meant to quote me but I dont take this particular study at face value I was just expressing a little frustration at what I see is a constant denial of any possible negative consequence of any particular persons favorite drug.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: niteman]
    #23914983 - 12/10/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I see.  I think you are probably on to something, but i still think that this particular study is making mountains out of molehills.


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: niteman] * 1
    #23920233 - 12/12/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteman said:
Not sure if you meant to quote me but I dont take this particular study at face value I was just expressing a little frustration at what I see is a constant denial of any possible negative consequence of any particular persons favorite drug.



I agree this is a problem in the shroomery news, but to be fair we've seen SOOOOO much total and utter bullshit its tough to not get jaded. You know how many people still think that dude that ate that guy's face was high on bath salts? I think bath salts are absolutely atrocious, but misinformation helps nobody


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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Offlineniteman
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23926468 - 12/14/16 03:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I agree bloodsheen its a double edged sword


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OfflineTripsahoy420
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: niteman]
    #23953944 - 12/24/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Very interesting article. I've had weed occasionally interfere with my vision for many years. It usually is a very quick flash of white, the only comparison I can give is the "interference" that blocks one's view when experiencing tunnel vision. Recently however, sometimes when I smoke, I get massive headaches, seeming to originate from my right eye. No clue if it's related to this article, but makes one think!! :crazy:


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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Association Between Regular Cannabis Use and Ganglion Cell Dysfunction [Re: Tripsahoy420]
    #23960203 - 12/27/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:pimp3: There are probably more autistic people, here, than in the social support forum.

Quote:

Amplitude and implicit time of the N95 wave on results of pattern electroretinography.



Quote:

Explicit and implicit methods are approaches used in numerical analysis for obtaining numerical approximations




This is a research paper, in which the results are implied, not explicit.

They've created a line graph, in which time is an unknown quantity, in other words, without the X (or horizontal) axis.


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