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OfflineAncestoralbeings
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23910213 - 12/09/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Quote:

Ancestoralbeings said:
Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.




No, what makes lemon tek work is the low PH levels. Psilocybin is not active, psilocin is. Psilocybin get's converted into psilocin in your stomach acid, and than goes through your liver.
Lemon juice or anything acidic will also do this.
It makes for a fast come up, and more intense trip because there's less time your body has to convert and digest anything.
Vinegar has about a 2.4 ph level. Lemon juice has a 2 ph level.
Vinegar would work.





Sorry but all you've read on shroomery are just a misinterpretation of how it works, our stomach acid is already extremely acidic, the ph can be as low as 1.5.

The stomach acid doesn't play any role at converting psilocybin to psilocin, neither does lemon juice.

When ingested, psilocybin is dephosphorylated to its phosphate ester, psilocin, by our "alkaline phosphatase"(not our stomach acid), "alkaline phosphatase" is an enzyme present both in the brush border of the intestines and in the liver.




It removes the phosphate group from psilocybin then leaving psilocin to be passed along through the bloodstream.



Enzymes have one function only, and work like a key that fits in a lock. Only when the RIGHT ENZYME finds the right material it can work upon, does a biochemical reaction occur.

Some enzymes help break large molecules into smaller pieces that are more easily absorbed by the body. Other enzymes help bind two molecules together to produce a new molecule.




What study is this from? None. There hasn't been any on it. yes i know about enzymes as well. You made up the reason it works inside your brain. There is proof that the reason psilocybin works is you stomach acid.

I also see a ban in your future  :trustme:


Edited by Ancestoralbeings (12/09/16 01:28 PM)


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
Stranger
Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23910241 - 12/09/16 01:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

All I did was break it down into simpler concepts:

http://itech.dickinson.edu/chemistry/?p=916

Look for  Occurrence and Use of Hallucinogenic Mushrooms Containing Psilocybin Alkaloids.

It's all on the scientific literature, if you don't have competence to do a proper search, that's not my problem.

People like you represent the word stupidity. All you do is spout off information with no basis, no facts, forming opinions based on gossip and what's popular.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/09/16 02:10 PM)


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OfflineAncestoralbeings
Stranger
Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23910258 - 12/09/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:facepalm3:

NO studies have been done on the "lemon tek"
You're quoting things that aren't even relevant, please stop spreading false information.


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Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23910442 - 12/09/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You clearly did not read my original post, I explained it there. The acid has no phosphatase enzymes the mushrooms do. The acidic environment increases the activity of the enzymes which are always going to be present if you do a water extraction such as making tea, the lemon tek, etc. It will happen without the acid as well, it's just slower. Here is one of the first credible sources I found googling it since you seem so hard pressed to ignore what I'm saying. Check page 47:


Quote:



The  chemiluminescence  responses  from  each  extract  utilizing
acidic  potassium  permanganate  and  tris(2,2
0
-bipyridyl)ruthe-
nium(III) are shown in Fig. 1.
Extraction numbers 3 and 4 were the only methods where both
psilocin and psilocybin were detected. Similar concentrations of
psilocin were observed using methods 1 and 2. Extraction meth-
ods 1 and 2 both required the use of aqueous acetic  acid as the
extraction  solvent.  This  is  a  suitable  extraction  solvent  as  both
psilocin and psilocybin are very soluble in dilute acetic acid, and
very little other interfering substances are extracted (23). Howev-
er,  the  heating  of  the  acid  extract  in  method  1  led  to  the  de-
phosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin.
This was evident as no
chemiluminescence  was  elicited  upon  reaction  with  tris(2,2
0
-
bipyridyl)ruthenium(III), Fig. 1.

The neutralization  process  required  in  extraction  method  2 to
keep the pH below pH 8.5, was to avoid base facilitated destruc-
tion of psilocybin. It is quite surprising that no chemiluminescence
was elicited upon reaction with tris(2,2
0
-bipyridyl)ruthenium(III),
Fig.  1.  It  has  been  reported  that  enzymes  of  the  phosphatase
type  can  be  extracted  with  aqueous  acetic  acid  in  contrast  to
organic  solvents  (36),  thus  facilitating  the  dephosphorylation
process





I've done this myself and I've read it from numerous sources from forum posts to published studies, I know what I'm talking about. Maybe don't be so arrogant and insulting towards someone if you can't manage to even read and understand the position which you're arguing against.


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OfflineBeLove111
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 80
Loc: Land of many Colors
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23910460 - 12/09/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have no studies or scientific information to say this converts to that which is then converted by the liver to this.... i appreciate that information and those who are skilled at that. all i know is the lemon tek works incredibly well for me, the journey is definitely noticeably smoother and deeper, and it is the only way i consume mushrooms now (lemon tek in a tea+eating raw cacao nibs) The mushrooms for some reason love the spirit of chocolate and they synergize like a loving couple.


--------------------
May ALL beings be happy. May ALL beings be free from suffering. May ALL beings be compassionate.


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Offlinewolf8312
Pennywise
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 4 days, 9 hours
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: BeLove111]
    #23911683 - 12/09/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've only tried vinegar tek and whole shrooms never lemmon tek.

In comparison to whole shrooms VT it is more potent and consistent in its effect (no up and down waves) faster acting, and with a shorter duration. Sounds like Lemmon tek to me.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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Offlinequagmire
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23911909 - 12/10/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i guess yeah ok enzymes act like keys - but i should have said using the lock isn't always the only way through the door.  sometimes you can bash it down.


ok so if we need an enzymatic reaction I don't see how the lemon is adding anything.  it's not that acidic compared to the stomach and you're saying the magic happens later.  and all the descriptions I'm reading just sound like my tea trips tea to me. 
what if i make a very fine powder out of the dried mushroom? Adding surface area should have much bigger effects than lowering the pH a bit, no?



has anyone looked into chitinase?


sorrry questions


Edited by quagmire (12/10/16 12:40 AM)


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Offlinequagmire
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: quagmire]
    #23912800 - 12/10/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

aha ok i was to sleepy to read right yesterday.  so the necessary enzyme is in the mushroom already.  if i remember correctly this is related to the blueing reaction.  this should have occured to me as im very fond of beano - which is a human digestive enzyme extracted from aspergillus

that means any old acid should do the trick, and a stronger acid should work better than a weaker one, so the 20% acetic acid might just be very effective.  I'm still wondering about chitinase - for instance would vinegar made from bananas contain enough chitinase to accelerate the breakdown of the mushroom enough to make a difference in availability of components?  or maybe a papaya preparation? 


Edited by quagmire (12/10/16 11:26 AM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: quagmire]
    #23912864 - 12/10/16 11:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The alkaloids are very readily extracted from the fruit bodies, water alone does just dine, no need for digestive enzymes or anything. It's not necessarily true that a higher acid content will do anything either, I don't suspect it would, and then you will have to consume that nasty drink too. If you want to speed up the conversion heating the liquid will do, in an extraction I've read they extract it with 1% GAA (vinegar is 3-5$ generally, so already much stronger) and then bring the solution to 70C which completely dephosphorylates it. You're kind of right with the bluing, it is caused by a breakdown product of psilocin, so the enzymes converting the much more stable psilocybin to psilocin facilitates its further breakdown to cause the well known bluing. If you use some abscorbic acid this bluing will not happen ime which will preserve more of your alkaloids and lead to a stronger experience.


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Offlinequagmire
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23916390 - 12/11/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

chitinase would be about pre-digesting the chitin though.  I suppose not an issue for everyone but my gut isnt great at it and it gives me mushroom belly.  some of the more dense edibles do it too unless i puree them


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Offlinequagmire
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: quagmire]
    #23965116 - 12/29/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ok after all the reading, I came to the conclusion that it's a just lemon flavored tea.

So I scrapped everything and ate 7g of cyans straight up in one go, lots of chewing.  Really how fast I came up was pretty irrelevant to my dead ego.


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