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Offlinequagmire
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Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
vinegar tek?
    #23905484 - 12/07/16 11:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ok please don't laugh yet.

i'm porposing something like

4 g dried cyanescens
20% acetic acid (not always easy to find)
coffee filter
some sort of buffer

maybe some oil to make salad dressing?

the idea is to replace the lemon with the much stronger 20% acetic acid, then after treating th material, remove the solution, buffer it up to normal vinegar strength, then make salad dressing

thoughts?


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OfflineAncestoralbeings
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Registered: 12/01/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: quagmire]
    #23905512 - 12/07/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Why not just use vinegar and mix it with some type of vinegarette? (or however it's spelled)


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Offlinelukehighwalker710
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23905641 - 12/08/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Very cool idea. You should definitely try it and report back! May require heating also? Water?


--------------------
:vaped: Highwalker :bongload:


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OfflineBeLove111
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Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 80
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Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: lukehighwalker710]
    #23906715 - 12/08/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

honestly lemon juice works perfectly fine there is no need to have a higher acidity. Just make sure you grind up your mushrooms nice and fine before soaking. I like to soak a good couple of hours as well, I mix with warm water and VOILA! a potent, smooth journey will be had. No nausea, no funkiness, just pure healing. All the best


--------------------
May ALL beings be happy. May ALL beings be free from suffering. May ALL beings be compassionate.


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OfflineAncestoralbeings
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Registered: 12/01/16
Posts: 201
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: BeLove111]
    #23907172 - 12/08/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BeLove111 said:
honestly lemon juice works perfectly fine there is no need to have a higher acidity. Just make sure you grind up your mushrooms nice and fine before soaking. I like to soak a good couple of hours as well, I mix with warm water and VOILA! a potent, smooth journey will be had. No nausea, no funkiness, just pure healing. All the best



I think he wanted to infuse it with a salad dressing or something.


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23908023 - 12/08/16 06:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.

If you lemon tek it correctly, your tea should not turn blue, blue means oxidation.


You gotta be careful, i've seen people having ego deaths with just 2 grams.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/08/16 06:34 PM)


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OfflineAncestoralbeings
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23908209 - 12/08/16 07:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.




No, what makes lemon tek work is the low PH levels. Psilocybin is not active, psilocin is. Psilocybin get's converted into psilocin in your stomach acid, and than goes through your liver.
Lemon juice or anything acidic will also do this.
It makes for a fast come up, and more intense trip because there's less time your body has to convert and digest anything.
Vinegar has about a 2.4 ph level. Lemon juice has a 2 ph level.
Vinegar would work.


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings] * 2
    #23908521 - 12/08/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ancestoralbeings said:
Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.




No, what makes lemon tek work is the low PH levels. Psilocybin is not active, psilocin is. Psilocybin get's converted into psilocin in your stomach acid, and than goes through your liver.
Lemon juice or anything acidic will also do this.
It makes for a fast come up, and more intense trip because there's less time your body has to convert and digest anything.
Vinegar has about a 2.4 ph level. Lemon juice has a 2 ph level.
Vinegar would work.





Sorry but all you've read on shroomery are just a misinterpretation of how it works, our stomach acid is already extremely acidic, the ph can be as low as 1.5.

The stomach acid doesn't play any role at converting psilocybin to psilocin, neither does lemon juice.

When ingested, psilocybin is dephosphorylated to its phosphate ester, psilocin, by our "alkaline phosphatase"(not our stomach acid), "alkaline phosphatase" is an enzyme present both in the brush border of the intestines and in the liver.




It removes the phosphate group from psilocybin then leaving psilocin to be passed along through the bloodstream.



Enzymes have one function only, and work like a key that fits in a lock. Only when the RIGHT ENZYME finds the right material it can work upon, does a biochemical reaction occur.

Some enzymes help break large molecules into smaller pieces that are more easily absorbed by the body. Other enzymes help bind two molecules together to produce a new molecule.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/08/16 11:56 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23908582 - 12/08/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The acid in the lemon tek is why it works, though ime ascorbic acid does help because it prevents psilocin from being oxidized. Psilocybin is a lot more stable and you don't have to worry about it oxidizing. The acid makes the enzymes already present in the mushrooms/tea dephosphorylate the psilocybin to psilocin, that is at least part of why the tek works. I think it likely has a lot to do with simply extracting the alkaloids as well though as regular tea has a similar effect. Whether the anti oxidant effect works in the stomach I don't know, but I don't suspect it has much to do with it personally.


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23908628 - 12/08/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Bro, two words "Alkaline Phosphatase". You didn't even bother doing a search.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/08/16 10:21 PM)


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23908690 - 12/08/16 10:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know what your point is and I'm not sure you do either, did you even read my post or did you just not understand it? Alkaline phosphatase isn't going to dephosphorlyate something that's not phosphorlyated to begin with, bro.


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Offlinequagmire
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Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23908792 - 12/08/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

hmmm

I'm most interested in Lucid Dreamer's answer as it demolishes the hole premise of my little proposal here...

for the other replies - note that 20% acetic acid has a pH MUCH lower than lemon juice.  You guys are thinking of 4 or 5% acetic acid. 


Also the reason for a buffer is you cannot ingest 20% acetic acid.  it will freaking burn you pretty bad!  If the acid is what makes lemon tek work, I was hoping to use a stronger acid but then i need a way to ingest it.


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OfflineP.Zappatecorum
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Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Ancestoralbeings]
    #23908836 - 12/08/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ancestoralbeings said:
Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.




No, what makes lemon tek work is the low PH levels. Psilocybin is not active, psilocin is. Psilocybin get's converted into psilocin in your stomach acid, and than goes through your liver.
Lemon juice or anything acidic will also do this.
It makes for a fast come up, and more intense trip because there's less time your body has to convert and digest anything.
Vinegar has about a 2.4 ph level. Lemon juice has a 2 ph level.
Vinegar would work.



Psilocin oxidizes fast and is unstable though, thus the ascorbic acid keeping it from oxidizing. Both of you are half right. :lol:
Tea works well because psilocybin is a pro-drug meaning you actually trip off the psilocin, it is already in solution and converted to the form your body will use and you absorb the entire instantaneously, thus the fast come up and shorter acting time. It's not as noticeable on the smaller more potent mushrooms though, because they already digest pretty fast, but compared to eating a lot of raw, weak fresh cubes on a full stomach, the increase in uptake with tea would be noticeable.

My question is, my tea tek is down and it tastes great. One cup of nice tasting tea and I'm flying. Why would you want nasty ass vinegar to choke down? Like, really, you're going to eat it on a salad? Seems kind of pointless to me, but I've never been one to make shroom pizza or any other creative foodie way of ingesting drugs. :shrug:


Edited by P.Zappatecorum (12/08/16 11:32 PM)


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23908840 - 12/08/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I don't know what your point is and I'm not sure you do either, did you even read my post or did you just not understand it? Alkaline phosphatase isn't going to dephosphorlyate something that's not phosphorlyated to begin with, bro.





So what the chemical name O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine means to you?


I think you should stop arguing about things you don't understand, you're just embarrassing yourself

At least do a search


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #23908878 - 12/08/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Psilocin oxidizes fast and is unstable though, thus the ascorbic acid keeping it from oxidizing. Both of you are half right. :lol:
Tea works well because psilocybin is a pro-drug meaning you actually trip off the psilocin, it is already in solution and converted to the form your body will use and you absorb the entire instantaneously, thus the fast come up and shorter acting time. It's not as noticeable on the smaller more potent mushrooms though, because they already digest pretty fast, but compared to eating a lot of raw, weak fresh cubes on a full stomach, the increase in uptake with tea would be noticeable.







Lol I give up this kindergarten shit, you guys don't even read.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/08/16 11:53 PM)


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Offlinequagmire
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Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
    #23908922 - 12/09/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

P.Zappatecorum said:
Quote:

Ancestoralbeings said:
Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Vinegar does not contain the antioxidant ascorbic acid. That's what makes lemon tek work, it prevents degradation and increases bioavailability.

For example, when you take shrooms about 50% of the psilocybin is degradated before reaching your noggin, our body is very good at degrading "toxins", as an antioxidant ascorbic acid would slow down this degradation.




No, what makes lemon tek work is the low PH levels. Psilocybin is not active, psilocin is. Psilocybin get's converted into psilocin in your stomach acid, and than goes through your liver.
Lemon juice or anything acidic will also do this.
It makes for a fast come up, and more intense trip because there's less time your body has to convert and digest anything.
Vinegar has about a 2.4 ph level. Lemon juice has a 2 ph level.
Vinegar would work.



Psilocin oxidizes fast and is unstable though, thus the ascorbic acid keeping it from oxidizing. Both of you are half right. :lol:
Tea works well because psilocybin is a pro-drug meaning you actually trip off the psilocin, it is already in solution and converted to the form your body will use and you absorb the entire instantaneously, thus the fast come up and shorter acting time. It's not as noticeable on the smaller more potent mushrooms though, because they already digest pretty fast, but compared to eating a lot of raw, weak fresh cubes on a full stomach, the increase in uptake with tea would be noticeable.

My question is, my tea tek is down and it tastes great. One cup of nice tasting tea and I'm flying. Why would you want nasty ass vinegar to choke down? Like, really, you're going to eat it on a salad? Seems kind of pointless to me, but I've never been one to make shroom pizza or any other creative foodie way of ingesting drugs. :shrug:




it's curiosity.  also I read about lemon tek and was like why use such a weak acid?

also i do like vinegar.


Edited by quagmire (12/09/16 12:18 AM)


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Offlinequagmire
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Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 58
Last seen: 7 years, 28 days
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23908933 - 12/09/16 12:22 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Quote:


Psilocin oxidizes fast and is unstable though, thus the ascorbic acid keeping it from oxidizing. Both of you are half right. :lol:
Tea works well because psilocybin is a pro-drug meaning you actually trip off the psilocin, it is already in solution and converted to the form your body will use and you absorb the entire instantaneously, thus the fast come up and shorter acting time. It's not as noticeable on the smaller more potent mushrooms though, because they already digest pretty fast, but compared to eating a lot of raw, weak fresh cubes on a full stomach, the increase in uptake with tea would be noticeable.







Lol I give up this kindergarten shit, you guys don't even read.





I'm reading what you are saying, sorry for not replying directly to it.


I am not sure what all the answers are but one problem with your explanation of enzymes is that they just lower the amount of energy needed to achieve a reaction.  it's not exactly like a key that fits a lock. 


the other thing is - so lemon tek is bullshit?  I haven't tried yet, don't have an opinion


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
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Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: quagmire]
    #23909546 - 12/09/16 09:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


I am not sure what all the answers are but one problem with your explanation of enzymes is that they just lower the amount of energy needed to achieve a reaction.  it's not exactly like a key that fits a lock.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/science/add_aqa_pre_2011/enzymes/enzymes1.shtml

 

Quote:

the other thing is - so lemon tek is bullshit?  I haven't tried yet, don't have an opinion




No, it's not bullshit.


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: Lucid Dreamer]
    #23909750 - 12/09/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Dreamer said:
Quote:

krypto2000 said:
I don't know what your point is and I'm not sure you do either, did you even read my post or did you just not understand it? Alkaline phosphatase isn't going to dephosphorlyate something that's not phosphorlyated to begin with, bro.





So what the chemical name O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine means to you?


I think you should stop arguing about things you don't understand, you're just embarrassing yourself

At least do a search




As I said it gets dephosphylated in the acidic solution due to phosphatase enzymes already present in the solution which are much more effective in an acidic environment. I'm not disputing psilocybin is dephosphorylated in the body, that's common knowledge, but I am disputing that when doing the lemon tek properly there will be no appreciable amount of psilocybin left to dephosphorylate. This is a well documented fact. Why don't you do a search and stop embarrassing your self. If you want to dispute what I'm saying the give a reason if not a documented source. I can easily pull a source for mine if you need to see it.


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OfflineLucid Dreamer
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Registered: 12/03/16
Posts: 100
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: vinegar tek? [Re: krypto2000]
    #23910143 - 12/09/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

As I said it gets dephosphylated in the acidic solution due to phosphatase enzymes already present in the solution




Wow you seem very knowledgeable about it. What kind of acidic solution have you been using which has the phosphatase enzymes already present in it?

Do you extract the phosphatase enzymes from your cat's liver and then make a solution? I'm very intrigued

From what i'm aware of, acids do not dephosphorylate psilocybin, or anything else for that matter.  de/phosphorylation is an enzymatic process, linked to words like phosphatase.  citric, ascorbic, and hydrochloric acids don't do that.


Edited by Lucid Dreamer (12/09/16 01:12 PM)


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