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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23903918 - 12/07/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, LDS, you go on believing what you like, I am not terribly concerned with whatever that may be. I would never attempt to convert a 'believer' of any sort.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (12/07/16 03:29 PM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23903919 - 12/07/16 03:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Were you not here yesterday, when I explained the differences between Fox news and CNN to you? Oh wait, that's right, your response was 'no, you're wrong'. I'm afraid 'because I said so' is not an adequate response.



Yet... you were wrong.



It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.  But you keep it up with your "you were wrong" comments without explaining yourself.  I think we both know conservatives eat that shit up.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23903924 - 12/07/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Were you not here yesterday, when I explained the differences between Fox news and CNN to you? Oh wait, that's right, your response was 'no, you're wrong'. I'm afraid 'because I said so' is not an adequate response.



Yet... you were wrong.



It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.  But you keep it up with your "you were wrong" comments without explaining yourself.  I think we both know conservatives eat that shit up.




Exactly. I am very open to coherent arguments. There wasn't one made on that subject.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23903945 - 12/07/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

millzy said:
most employees are underpaid because we have high concentrations of profit at the very top of organizations. the standard answer to this problem is that the state of affairs is due to 'market forces'




That may be the standard answer, but let us talk, from an intellectual perspective, and not a retarded pro-capitalist horseshit perspective, about the solution to this problem, which is very simple, and doesn't require me demonizing anyone (such as single mothers), like a stupid fucking asshole.

Here is the solution to the problem of corporate douchebags taking millions of dollars while they drive their company into the ground, etc:

German worker councils, mandated by the government. Any business with a certain number of workers is required to allow those workers a say in all affairs of that business. The board of directors is composed of roughly 50% elected representatives of the workers.

And that my friends, is democracy at work.




Yeah, I have always liked that concept that they use in Germany, that's definitely one part of the equation.



I think it's a great concept.  It seems like both sides might agree?


Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
You know, I'd have to think about it more, but I think I may actually approve of the TPP, if we had worker controlled workplaces.



I would too.  In fact, in the "Here's Where I Stand On The Issues" thread, I said tariffs and barriers to free trade are actually "Bad, unless corporations hog all the profits from free trade (which is what we see today)".




I think both sides would agree, if the idea were ever presented to them. We could do away with unions also! The TPP has a lot more in it than tariffs though, so maybe I went too far with that comment.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23903978 - 12/07/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.




No, it's been explained that you and some others think it is. That doesn't make it so.

Perhaps you and BBW can take turns patting each other on the back.

This is an example of the arrogance of the left.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23903989 - 12/07/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Exactly. I am very open to coherent arguments.




You seem to be one of those that when they ask... 'what do you think', they're really asking... 'you agree with me, right'?

Pretty sad.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23904002 - 12/07/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.




No, it's been explained that you and some others think it is. That doesn't make it so.




... That we think it is, sure.. more importantly, it's been explained why we think it is, which is more than you can say for your own opinion. 'There are two sides to every coin' is pretty pathetic, especially coming from a guy who claims to believe that 'left - right' politics is a false dichotomy.

Quote:

Perhaps you and BBW can take turns patting each other on the back.




Why don't you actually say something productive, instead of attacking us for genuinely agreeing with one another, as if that were some sort of fault.

Quote:

This is an example of the arrogance of the left.




No, arrogance is providing no evidence for your claim and still considering it valid, as you have done.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23904007 - 12/07/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Exactly. I am very open to coherent arguments.




You seem to be one of those that when they ask... 'what do you think', they're really asking... 'you agree with me, right'?

Pretty sad.




No. However, in some circumstances I am asking, 'Do you agree with me? Or do you have evidence to the contrary?', and on these forums, I am rarely provided with any shred of that.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23904017 - 12/07/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

No, it's...

You seem to be one of those that when they ask... 'what do you think', they're really asking... 'you agree with me, right'?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23904112 - 12/07/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.



No, it's been explained that you and some others think it is. That doesn't make it so.



Oh, so YOU are the authority on what liberals believe?  Not liberals themselves?

I don't know a single liberal who thinks CNN is liberal.

Thinking you know more about liberalism than liberals themselves is the ultimate in arrogance and stupidity.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23904114 - 12/07/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
No, it's...

You seem to be one of those that when they ask... 'what do you think', they're really asking... 'you agree with me, right'?




Ok, you're right LDS. Thanks for clearing that up. You've really made it irrefutably clear. Bravo, once again :wink:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23909419 - 12/09/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.



No, it's been explained that you and some others think it is. That doesn't make it so.



Oh, so YOU are the authority on what liberals believe?  Not liberals themselves?




The point is simply that you or BBW claiming CNN is 'establishment' doesn't make it so. As the nickname 'Clinton News Network'  implies, many agree. Stating it is 'establishment' is nothing more than an opinion. One of many.


Quote:

I don't know a single liberal who thinks CNN is liberal.




Right. :rofl2:  Using you as an example of 'liberal' merely helps to strengthen the argument that many liberals are tone deaf. Your arrogance and levels of condescension certainly seem representative of why 'liberals' have lost control of so much of the countries state, local and federal power.


Quote:

Thinking you know more about liberalism than liberals themselves is the ultimate in arrogance and stupidity.




Actually, it's just a matter of understanding that not all who identify as 'liberals' or otherwise... agree.

Until 'liberals' understand that not everyone wants what they want (same goes for all political groups), control will continually wander back and forth. One of the advantages of being in the middle, seeing that both sides have things to say that matter to them and actually listening to others gives one pretty clear insight as to how people feel. But objectivity is something it's seems you lack.

In the meantime, I'll continue to feel both sides suck. I don't want everything either side wants. I don't automatically dislike anything either side wants.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23909430 - 12/09/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
No, it's...

You seem to be one of those that when they ask... 'what do you think', they're really asking... 'you agree with me, right'?




Ok, you're right LDS. Thanks for clearing that up. You've really made it irrefutably clear. Bravo, once again :wink:




Forgetting your condescension... my assessment of your position is accurate. Some of your responses make it clear.

The most amusing part of this discussion is that when some here point to a conservative in the same manner, the circle jerk gang rallies around. When the pointing comes the other way... those same people seem unable to cope.

Funny stuff.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23910323 - 12/09/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It's been explained how Fox is right wing, CNN is establishment, and MSNBC is left wing.



No, it's been explained that you and some others think it is. That doesn't make it so.



Oh, so YOU are the authority on what liberals believe?  Not liberals themselves?



The point is simply that you or BBW claiming CNN is 'establishment' doesn't make it so. As the nickname 'Clinton News Network'  implies, many agree.



Clinton IS establishment.  :facepalm:

Were you born yesterday?  They clearly favored Clinton over Bernie.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I don't know a single liberal who thinks CNN is liberal.



Right. :rofl2:  Using you as an example of 'liberal' merely helps to strengthen the argument that many liberals are tone deaf.



No, not "me", any liberal on this board.

I get that MSNBC is left wing.  I used to think CNN was right wing, but when right wingers rejected that, I realized it's because CNN is more establishment (or possibly middle of the road).

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Thinking you know more about liberalism than liberals themselves is the ultimate in arrogance and stupidity.



Actually, it's just a matter of understanding that not all who identify as 'liberals' or otherwise... agree.



I understand that.  Now tell me which liberal claims CNN is a liberal channel?  :popcorn:

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Until 'liberals' understand that not everyone wants what they want (same goes for all political groups), control will continually wander back and forth.



I get that. Straw man much?

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
One of the advantages of being in the middle, seeing that both sides have things to say that matter to them and actually listening to others gives one pretty clear insight as to how people feel. But objectivity is something it's seems you lack.



You don't have to be in the middle to see that.  :facepalm:

And what liberal positions do you support, Mr "Middle"?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23910358 - 12/09/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Forgetting your condescension...



Funny how you claim to be the 'adult' in the room when you're the most condescending and arrogant poster here.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #23910536 - 12/09/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Were you born yesterday?




Not even close.


Quote:

They clearly favored Clinton over Bernie.




That makes them sleazy but it does not make them establishment.


Quote:

No, not "me", any liberal on this board.




Right, because the liberals here are the only liberals anywhere.  :rofl2:


Quote:

I get that MSNBC is left wing.




You sure?


Quote:

I used to think CNN was right wing, but when right wingers rejected that, I realized it's because CNN is more establishment (or possibly middle of the road).




I get that's your opinion. Others disagree.


Quote:

I understand that.  Now tell me which liberal claims CNN is a liberal channel?




Should I commission a nation-wide survey?


Quote:

I get that.




It doesn't seem so.


Quote:

Straw man much?




Nope.


Quote:

You don't have to be in the middle to see that.




It sure seems that way.


Quote:

And what liberal positions do you support, Mr "Middle"?




Gay marriage. Equal rights. Abortion rights. And more.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23910539 - 12/09/16 02:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Funny how you claim to be the 'adult' in the room when you're the most condescending and arrogant poster here.




Now that is funny.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleBig Bear
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23910583 - 12/09/16 03:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

CNN is a fucking joke.  Cable news as a whole is a  joke.  I'm left wing as hell but if you think CNN is that much different than fox you're just kidding yourself. May as well be called an entertainment source at this point, because neither of them should be considered credible


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23911308 - 12/09/16 07:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Clinton IS establishment. 

Were you born yesterday?




Not even close.



That's even worse if you think Clinton is more liberal than establishment.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
They clearly favored Clinton over Bernie.



That makes them sleazy but it does not make them establishment.



Rooting for the establishment candidate regardless of party makes a news source more establishment than liberal, especially when liberals don't even believe CNN represents their views.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No, not "me", any liberal on this board.



Right, because the liberals here are the only liberals anywhere.  :rofl2:



If you need to expand your pool to the entire universe of liberals to find one that agrees CNN is liberal, then you're probably wrong that liberals think CNN is liberal. 

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I get that MSNBC is left wing.



You sure?



I'm sure they're more left wing than Fox and CNN.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I used to think CNN was right wing, but when right wingers rejected that, I realized it's because CNN is more establishment (or possibly middle of the road).



I get that's your opinion. Others disagree.



Right wingers disagree.  Name a liberal that believes CNN is liberal.



Should I commission a nation-wide survey?



If you don't know of any liberals who believe CNN is liberal, then you're probably wrong about it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: Socialism vs democracy [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #23911528 - 12/09/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So tedious.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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* Awesome Step - Social Security Reform
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Ancalagon 3,161 25 07/26/04 03:49 PM
by zappaisgod

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