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Invisibledemiu5
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Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy)
    #23903083 - 12/07/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Preface:  Despite the sometimes.......idiocy......of the stories broadcast on NPR, it remains an interesting view of a culture growing farther apart from my own 'world' and experiences and is often good for a laugh and/or reflection.



This morning, there was brief summarized coverage concerning "white nationalist" Richard Spencer speaking at a Houston university.  The story's author claims this "white nationalist" at a previous speech stated Hail Trump, followed by some portion of the supporters in the audience supposedly giving a "Nazi salute" in response.  NPR interviewed a young woman, presumably "black" based on her comments.  In this additional brief interview, she claimed to be part of a protest of this speaker and his message(s), which were not played or defined in any way.  She says something to the extent of: It's disturbing that there would be support here for this kind of person, but I am proud of my black brothers and sisters and their response for what's right.


Obviously, we could focus on what's right for her isn't what's right for the speaker, and vice-versa, but that's not the point.  The point is that this young woman attends what some would consider to be a "white pride" event (whether or not any of the event's content was racially-charged has yet to be determined, but this is how [some of] the protestors express they perceived it), demonstrating "black pride" through unity and verbal/textual rebuttal.  Wait....what?  Group A expresses their viewpoint, deemed to be offensive by Group B, and in response, Group B expresses the exact same style of viewpoint.  Neither group seems to want open communication on this issue of "pride"; they want to be heard and have their will imposed.


What about the difference in approach between radical Black Panther members and radical KKK members?  Both want(ed) their wills imposed, and both were willing to use physical force.  Neither is better than the other, neither worse.


Pride in anything ingrained in one's genetic makeup is asinine at best.  Pride in one's cultivated ability/skill or work is somewhat more sensible.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23906664 - 12/08/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps asinine, but genetics generally have a purpose. Humans are competitive animals. Life is a struggle.

Forecast: more pride, wars, hate, etc.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBernard
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: Rahz]
    #23906687 - 12/08/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

All I know about the KKK is that us Catholics are next on THE LIST after blacks and Jews.  Those guys hate us, and I don't know why.


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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: Bernard]
    #23906757 - 12/08/16 12:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineyeah
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23906767 - 12/08/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Idk... I feel esteemed in knowing that my Celtic and Western Germanic blood is actually descended from the Indus Valley, which is modern day Pakistan.

Their society was leagues above ours in terms of open heartedness and civility, so it's more of an ancestral pride than racial. You should read up on it. It's about how the term (((Aryan))) is ancient and cultural. I wish everyone else was on the same page as me with that word :nyan:

wiki actually cuts through the bullshit if you look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

__

BUT, to respond to your post, yeah I see exactly what you mean. Neither side wants to open up and be real with the other. Just typical human bullshit...


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Edited by yeah (12/08/16 12:38 PM)


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: Rahz]
    #23907185 - 12/08/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

yeah said:
Idk... I feel esteemed in knowing that my Celtic and Western Germanic blood is actually descended from the Indus Valley, which is modern day Pakistan.

Their society was leagues above ours in terms of open heartedness and civility, so it's more of an ancestral pride than racial. You should read up on it. It's about how the term (((Aryan))) is ancient and cultural. I wish everyone else was on the same page as me with that word :nyan:






but how does this actually affect you?  you can choose to be open-hearted and civil, regardless of your genetic composition or your indirect ancestor's disposition.  unless people of those characteristics had a hand in your upbringing or guidance, how does that relate/correlate?




Quote:

Rahz said:
Perhaps asinine, but genetics generally have a purpose. Humans are competitive animals. Life is a struggle.

Forecast: more pride, wars, hate, etc.





genetics having a purpose was not a question.  pride in genetics......what's the purpose?


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channel your inner Larry David


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23907905 - 12/08/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

it's just something that's piqued my interest lately :thatsinteresting:


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OfflineSporepoise
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: yeah]
    #23907919 - 12/08/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineyeah
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: Sporepoise]
    #23907932 - 12/08/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

But, Indus Valley, man.

Come on, look it up. It's cool as hell.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: yeah]
    #23908108 - 12/08/16 06:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Fussing over race is just low IQ behaviour. Just people clinging to things because they are dumb. That's not to say race doesn't exist, that's not to say you can't feel more solidarity with members of your own race if you wish to or if it is just a face of experience for you, but pride... well, usually they do their "pride" in a way that's embarrassing and obviously revealing of their own fragility. Same goes for nationalism or patriotism.

People want to belong. If you already belong to the universe maybe it won't be so fragile to think you belong to whiteness or blackness or brownness, but if you've figured out how to belong in this universe I think you'll laugh at such a concept trying to appease you.


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Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23908115 - 12/08/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pride in genetics......what's the purpose?




Self importance and importance of ones group? It tends to promote said genetics rather than the genetics of others/other tribes.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: Rahz]
    #23909954 - 12/09/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

beforethedawn said:
That's not to say race doesn't exist, that's not to say you can't feel more solidarity with members of your own race if you wish to or if it is just a face of experience for you, but pride... well, usually they do their "pride" in a way that's embarrassing and obviously revealing of their own fragility.






i tend to agree



i'm also contemplating the difference between holding pride, which may have the potential of providing one internal comfort or emotional support, and openly expressing one's pride to others, or worse, forcing one's pride upon others; the latter being how i perceive American nationalism (exs. punishing children in schools that do not "pledge allegiance..."; yes this happens, as i've experienced it first-hand.  Or the backlash that arose, despite the reasoning, for athletes and citizens not standing/singing during the national anthem.)  Further, i can see where pride is a result of oppression, such as "black" or "gay" pride, in which you have a group of people openly demoralized from many entities, and the relief that arises when one no longer has to hide themselves/their feelings and can be.



Quote:

People want to belong.






Point:  People want to be included.

i don't perceive belonging and inclusion as synonymous.  while one can "'sense' an immediate feeling of belonging", i feel belonging is a process that takes time and acceptance.  i perceive inclusion as [often] being an immediate or short-time-frame process

If most people recognize on some level that they want to be included, it seems fair to assert they recognize others also want to be included; we see in others ourselves and in ourselves others.  Yet, how many of those included are actually doing the including?  Excluding? 


In large groups, i see more exclusion, which is essentially the opposite of what i would expect.  In small groups, i see more inclusion.  Personally, i often exclude myself, even when friends or family would prefer and urge the opposite.  To what degree do people want to belong?  And to how many groups?  Is the concept of diminishing returns applicable here?  Desperation for attention coupled with a lack of confidence seems to be a large driving factor for peoples' willingness to be readily included, often at a lack of context, information, or full understanding.  I suppose i hope my observations are inadequate or outright wrong.


Additionally, i would pose that a large number of people don't necessarily want to belong but rather want to FEEL that they belong, even when being taken advantage of, abused, deceived, etc...often even obviously so.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23913914 - 12/10/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

In the last few days, i've been reading Isaac Asimov's Foundation.  So far, it is thoroughly entertaining.  The Hardin character, while Mayor, has a hand in publication of a magazine or newspaper, through safety nets directly removing any ownership or involvement.  As the story goes on, he rises to a political office, through coup, seemingly higher than 'mayor', and presumably still maintains authority over this magazine/newspaper.  As far as i've read, there is no evidence offered by Asimov if this circulation is biased in favor of Hardin's policies, or if it is neutral and objective of events as they occur.


Now let's move to the non-fictional realm.  Often in political factions, do "governments" directly, whether visibly or not, influence, if not control news-sources or other media.  This is generally known as propaganda.  Propaganda is often an effective tool for guiding the weak, apathetic, or indecisive [maybe "unsure" is a better phrase, here.]  Aside from the obvious purposes of propaganda, there are underlying concepts for the development and implementation of this tool.  Primarily, one's desire to not be [perceived/proven] wrong.


At some point in our individual development, likely or most commonly transferred from the unfortunate "plug-and-chug" educational system most of us are conditioned within, instilled in us is the concept that being "wrong" is the unholiest of unolies.  What's worse, imo, is how much of this information we are condemned and scolded for when responding "incorrectly" is historical, "fact-based" (according to those with authority who claim the "facts"), ultimately useless information.  It's been brought up in this forum before, but among science and mathematics, in addition to right and wrong responses, there are also inconclusive responses.  This alone removes much of the emotional/pyschological burden intricately associated, in other fields, with being "right or wrong."  Further, and back to the second paragraph concerning propaganda, situations in which "might makes right" or in contexts of historical record where most often the victors' accounts are held in high esteem and the conquereds' accounts hidden, disregarded, or destroyed, give rise to generations of individuals potentially experiencing aspects of their lives as utter falsehoods.  Lies beget lies.  Trickle-down effects, without individuals breaking away from their specific conditioning, hold potential for disaster.


All of this in the name of pride.  Pride; or even FEAR of being "wrong."


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Pride ("Black" Pride, "White" Pride; Hypocrisy) [Re: demiu5]
    #23914320 - 12/10/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Foundation was a great read.  Fountainhead, now there was an even greater read.  I, Robot, hell, that was pretty great too.

Trust me, pal, I've tried on here for years to get some intelligent life forms responding, but it's pretty much useless.  The more questions you ask, the less likely you will get a response, that's just how it goes.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Pride ( [Re: demiu5]
    #23938356 - 12/18/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

nazis are like cockroaches
they don't need sex to breed


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Pride ( [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23942336 - 12/20/16 02:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Pride is an enemy of our spirit.


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