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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23906183 - 12/08/16 09:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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daytripper05 said: Pris is definition of conventional wisdom. I've been fortunate enough to live my life against as forms of conventional wisdom as possible with great success. In a perfect world, he's usually right. But alas, we are far from a perfect world.
"Pris is definition of"
"live my life against as forms of"
it seems you could use a bit of conventional wisdom, maybe you could clarify how you believe I was wrong instead of making asinine statements that show a lack of basic understanding
Im severely dyslexic and gets worse as I get older, despite typing and using a computer for a living. I tend to skip words or put sentences together backwards and have to constantly reread/edit my posts. Sorry I didn't have time proof read it before taking my dog for a walk. A couple typos shouldn't immediately discredit what is said though.
Meant to say, "Pris is the* definition of...." and "live my life against as many* forms of..."
All I'm saying is you come across like you've already figured it all out and there is no conversation that will sway your existing opinion. Whether that is true or not isn't really the point. The point is that's how you come across. And I say this from a position where I agree with much of what you say.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: SonicTitan]
#23906186 - 12/08/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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SonicTitan said: Very well said, but we know how kids are.. One min they will love dinosaurs,bugs,drawing or whatever but wait 6 months and they are not interested in it. Which is why I think school is just as important as upbringing from parents. It gives children social skills, key elements of learning like math, grammar, history, social studies, science, and much more. We need these basic teachings as children IMO. There will always be choices to do what you want, which will always change for the most part until you can really put your finger on what it is you want as a career. Most adults today dont know what they want in life and just choose a career that they can fall into easily. They also have to know that not every child is capable of everything. To tell a kid they can do anything if they put their mind to it and work hard for it is one of the biggest lies you could tell a child. Its almost like setting up for failure in a lot of ways. Thats not to say dont motivate children to do things they are interested in but dont spoon feed them garbage like "you can be anything if you set your mind to it" because if/when they fail it wont be like their entire lifes ambition is in the toilet. No matter what age, the mind should always be open and willing to learn and progress.
Maybe I sound like an idiot but ah well. I hope noone is offended by what I said, its just how I feel and wont ever attack someone for a different opinion.
What happens in college and high school is young adults invest all this time and money into a field they ultimately don't give a shit about. And it's largely because no one seriously gave them the opportunity to understand what they wanted to do.
If, instead, we let them dip their fingers in the paint in elementary and middle school and let them see what their interests are really like they'd have a much better understanding of what they might want to do when they get to college. Part of the flexibility and individuality is to help understand a childs strength and weaknesses. To help them understand their own. And to find an appropriate pace for them. You absolutely do need to teach the basics but tbh the things I remember that I don't use every day came from the teacher, who went in a field they were passionate about, going off course and teaching us about something that wasn't in the textbook or the standards tests. Because they were interesting and they were things I actually cared about learning.
What we are seeing these days is a shit load of kids that have NO ambition what so ever... And it's because they feel they've been forced into their future worklife. And most of them are.
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Free time is the only time
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs] 2
#23906192 - 12/08/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Or... We should start basing schools around trades and hard skills again. Math, language, science, history, art, music, etc, only go so far in life. At the end of the day we need to have a skill or a niche that takes hard work and time to refine. This is what sets us apart from others and allow a company to pay higher wages. We should be teaching how to apply the academic skills to real life through new high end trade programs. Technology should be the core focus throughout every subject and skill.
We literally preach college to everyone and belittle trade schools and skills. When in fact... A certified automobile technician is more likely to own their own home than a 4 year college graduate. Yet, being a technician is "blue collar".
We need to make education less abstract and more hands on. It's not just about letting kids "try stuff" but provide an environment that is fully immersed into concrete examples that come from real professionals in the respective trades. We need to instill the notion that producing and engineering is the ultimate form of contribution to society.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: daytripper05] 1
#23906233 - 12/08/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with this too. Which is why I encourage the "exploration" and "try everything" time to be in pre-highschool and evolve to more specific focuses as a child progresses in middle school.
I think an understanding in history is crucially important in understanding the world around us. Sociology should probably be paired into it, like economics and government are.
Understanding and practicing creativity is highly underrated. Studies show children that don't participate in creative art have lower test scores. Adults who do not participate in creativity are more likely to be depressed, stressed, have poorer memory concentration and focus, and even more likely to develop dementia. Creative art opens pathways in the brain that effect a person positively in both intelligence and mental health for their entire life.
That's one reason why the focus on memorization and reiteration irritates me so much. That is only one pathway in the brain. And if you don't use it you lose it.
School should be just as focused on teaching children how to live a happy and successful life as it is on having a career. Especially when you live in a "democracy". How do you expect the people to help determine the fate of the country when the only thing they were taught was memorization???
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: daytripper05]
#23906245 - 12/08/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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daytripper05 said:
We need to make education less abstract and more hands on. It's not just about letting kids "try stuff" but provide an environment that is fully immersed into concrete examples that come from real professionals in the respective trades. We need to instill the notion that producing and engineering is the ultimate form of contribution to society.
But yeah this is what I really agree with. I dunno if I'd give a shit about biology and evolution if they didn't let me touch snakes and see aquariums.
I went really heavy into business administration in high school and career wise that's the only benefit I have. But if I judged my worth as a human being on my career I would kill myself right now. And it's not that I have a "bad" job. It's just that there is so much more to life than career.
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Free time is the only time
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23906250 - 12/08/16 10:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Totally agree with creativity too. I play music and a software engineer. I consider programming an art form just as much as it is math and logic. I think standardized testing was the ultimate downfall to our education system.
I did extremely poorly in school because I so bored and saw through the bullshit from 1st grade on. I knew I could extrapolate the nuggets and leave the rest. Sadly, most aren't able to do this.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23906264 - 12/08/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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CookieCrumbs said: But if I judged my worth as a human being on my career I would kill myself right now. And it's not that I have a "bad" job. It's just that there is so much more to life than career.
I'm fortunate enough to love what I do, and my career affords me to live a better life than most at my age in this economy. I got lucky and started programming at age 12 and never went to college. I started my first business at 17, and have failed many time with them, but in the end I always come out on top. My career is everything right now, but it doesn't run my life.
I work from home and make my own hours. I subcontract my skills to companies that don't have good luck with hiring people. I can literally make as much or as little as I care to make in a given week. It wasn't just handed to me though. I work extremely hard to get here, but in the end it's totally worth it for me given the freedom I can work and live anywhere in the country I desire.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: daytripper05]
#23906292 - 12/08/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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daytripper05 said: All I'm saying is you come across like you've already figured it all out and there is no conversation that will sway your existing opinion.
and yet you still have not showed us where my statements were false
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23906297 - 12/08/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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CookieCrumbs said: What happens in college and high school is young adults invest all this time and money into a field they ultimately don't give a shit about. And it's largely because no one seriously gave them the opportunity to understand what they wanted to do.
the world only needs just so many dinosaur experts that have studied nothing but dinosaurs for their entire lives. what happens when these folks need to pay their bills and cannot read, write or do math?
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23906300 - 12/08/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Next time I see it, i'll be sure to illustrate it for you.
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: daytripper05]
#23906311 - 12/08/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's funny cuz I actually got into web design when I was 16. Was a certified webmaster by the time I was 18. Had a bunch of college credits too. But I stopped and changed major because I realized I loathe coding. So much.
"why does my webpage look like it's hanging off the screen?" *spends 3 hours looking through code to find the one / that threw everything off* that has to be some form of torture 
But my mind really doesn't work that way. Hard formula has never been my strength. I like analytics, science, and statistics, but I just can't have that BE the point. I need something concrete. Something visual and tangible and touchable. Which is ultimately why I dropped out of college. My ecology major was torturing me too. Which... Wasn't going to be my career... Shame there is no ecoconervation trade school.
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Free time is the only time
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Alyssa
consecrated woman ✝️

Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,517
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Webster10]
#23906319 - 12/08/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Webster10 said: When I was in high school I took a class at the community college about this alternative childhood bullshit. Go through and read each case about this stupid hippy crap. It's the same situation in almost every case. Cuck-father let's cunt-wife dominate marriage and raise children contrary to how the rest of normal society does because cunt-wife feels that she was never accepted in normal society.
Look up the case where the baby was named, "storm." The cunt-wife literally took the entire family, cuck-father included into the god damn woods to live. The cunt-wife sent out a mass email saying she wouldn't reveal "storms" gender to anyone, leaving "it" free to decide what it wanted to be. How much do you want to fucking bet that "storm" is biologically a male?
Oh right, I forgot, we need the manly man to dominate the marriage. Can you express an idea without covering it from top to bottom with misogyny?
She has the right idea, the woods are a safe haven from the patriarchy. She's probably naturist and raising her kid that way as well, unlike some people on the shroomery. Yes, her kid; she suffered through labor to give birth to her/him so basically from my point of view the sperm donor should have very little in the way of say. You guys haven't smoked enough salvia to become enlightened.
-------------------- I'm Alyssa. I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.
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ManianFH
living in perverty



Registered: 07/06/04
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Alyssa]
#23906334 - 12/08/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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lol youre sucha troll its too obvious. thats ok though shroomery is the perfec place for your ilk
my daughter will be attending a public school. and well provide further education when shes at home. luckily i have a job that allows me nearly my own schedule, so i get to see her a lot, play guitar for her, read, etc.. wouldnt want her to be homeschooled, or learn on her own,whatever the fuck thats about. theres something to be said about the system of learning in place, we can build from the established educational system, filling in the holes as parents.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23906358 - 12/08/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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CookieCrumbs said: What happens in college and high school is young adults invest all this time and money into a field they ultimately don't give a shit about. And it's largely because no one seriously gave them the opportunity to understand what they wanted to do.
the world only needs just so many dinosaur experts that have studied nothing but dinosaurs for their entire lives. what happens when these folks need to pay their bills and cannot read, write or do math?
Funny because plenty of people do that in college.
Why does every conservative I talk to say this? "no be what business needs you to be." and then berate me for my "communistic ideas" ?
I'm definitely saying they should learn more. Especially the basics. I think the basics are the only things that should have standardized testing. And be the required inflexible courses. But I'm saying they should be allowed to explore fields of interest when they're young and then combine that with career prediction as they get older.
Also we really should start appreciating abstract science more. As we continue to evolve there isn't going to be very much need for most blue collar workers and less white collar too, as robots build robots, so if we want to continue to advance as a race we'd better start fucking appreciating the specialists that strive to help us understand our world.
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Free time is the only time
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Ezuma
Gontish Wizard



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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23906498 - 12/08/16 11:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are american public schools really this bad? Surely not in all Counties? Maybe my school was abnormal but I felt like I learned a lot of stuff, though could have learned more for sure if they didn't have to teach at the level of morons but still, I learned far more than I would have just left in a room all day.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Ezuma]
#23912118 - 12/10/16 04:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ezuma said: Are american public schools really this bad? Surely not in all Counties? Maybe my school was abnormal but I felt like I learned a lot of stuff, though could have learned more for sure if they didn't have to teach at the level of morons but still, I learned far more than I would have just left in a room all day.
Nah, American public schools are not all bad, some are in fact really good, just as good as private schools. It all depends on how rich the city and county is. Schools in poor areas will obviously be severely underfunded and have outdated class material and textbooks. But then there are other cities where all the teachers have a minimum of a master's degree, some even with PhD's.
Also I'm posting in here again because I found this family on an episode of Dr. Phil (part 2, 3, 4, and 5 can also be found on YouTube).
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: daytripper05]
#23912125 - 12/10/16 04:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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daytripper05 said: Or... We should start basing schools around trades and hard skills again. Math, language, science, history, art, music, etc, only go so far in life. At the end of the day we need to have a skill or a niche that takes hard work and time to refine. This is what sets us apart from others and allow a company to pay higher wages. We should be teaching how to apply the academic skills to real life through new high end trade programs. Technology should be the core focus throughout every subject and skill.
We literally preach college to everyone and belittle trade schools and skills. When in fact... A certified automobile technician is more likely to own their own home than a 4 year college graduate. Yet, being a technician is "blue collar".
We need to make education less abstract and more hands on. It's not just about letting kids "try stuff" but provide an environment that is fully immersed into concrete examples that come from real professionals in the respective trades. We need to instill the notion that producing and engineering is the ultimate form of contribution to society.
Personally, I think this is exactly why children should be allowed to start working from like the age of 11 or 12.
Think about it. They have endless amounts of energy, that is around the age they start getting rebellious and want to have their own life separate from their parents, and this is the age that children WANT to work most, they WANT to be financially independent from their parents and make their own money.
If they were allowed to work, they could explore many different jobs while they are young, to help them give an idea of what it is they really want to do. Who knows, a lot of kids might find out they actually have a talent for cutting hair, or cooking, or they enjoy fixing cars, or handling animals or babies or something.
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I think the basics are the only things that should have standardized testing.
Isn't that what they already do? I don't recall ever having a standardized test on history or art, it was all math or english/writing ability.
Anyways I found this TED talk on unschooling too. I think traveling the world with your kid might be cool to do for a year or two and give them a lot of life experience and worldly lessons, to teach them a few things that school could never teach them... but for their entire lives?
There are just some things you can't learn through "real life world experience," like math and physics for instance.
Edited by Crystal G (12/10/16 06:50 AM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23912174 - 12/10/16 04:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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CookieCrumbs said: I know this isn't the conversation but I think it's a really good idea to teach kids what they're interested in. If they like dinosaurs teach them about paleontology. If they like gorillas teach them about evolution and primate interactions. If they like drawing teach them about art. If they like music teach them how to compose. Or music theory or history or whatever they seem to gravitate toward. Encourage their interest and willingness to learn. Not just reward it, FEED IT make them hungry to learn more.
I think one of the biggest problems in standard education is there is no flexibility and very little individuality.
What do you teach them if they like smoking weed and masturbating all the time?
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TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: moonrockmushy] 2
#23912204 - 12/10/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I recommend for people who are interested in this subject matter to read Dumbing Us Down and Escape from Childhood.
The idea that children should be allowed to learn in an organic way that eschews compulsory education has a lot of merit. The public education model as implemented presently is devastating to many children. Many of them have developed mental disorders and have to be put on chemical restraints to function in our public schools.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: The "Unschooling Movement" -- Keep your kids out of school and let them learn whatever they want [Re: Crystal G]
#23912398 - 12/10/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said: Personally, I think this is exactly why children should be allowed to start working from like the age of 11 or 12.
Think about it. They have endless amounts of energy, that is around the age they start getting rebellious and want to have their own life separate from their parents, and this is the age that children WANT to work most, they WANT to be financially independent from their parents and make their own money.
I've worked with Mennonites at a couple of different rural jobs and this is pretty much what they did, except I think the parents saved the money away for them until they were adults.
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