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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Outdoor bed varieties?
#23900356 - 12/06/16 04:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I want to try some outdoor beds and was looking for some variety suggestions. I want year-round (seasonal) fruiting and am willing to experiment with 4-6 varieties, 1-2 for each season. I am in the Pacific North-West, so hardwood chips/sawdust is hard to come by, ideally the myc should be happy in rich compost and/or straw (and perhaps fermented conifer chips, no cedar or redwood. As I said, going to be experimental). I will water these beds so that a heat-loving summer variety would actually have a shot at fruiting. An obvious choice is Stropharia rugosoannulata, but I want to experiment more, like with:
Agaricus augustus Agaricus subrufescens/blazie Lepista/Clidocype luna (took a clone of one growing on a straw bale on the farm) Perhaps a specific morel variety?
Hypsizygus ulmarius and Pholiota nameko show good promise too.
Any suggestions, pit falls, and tips are welcome. Thanks
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: flyontoast]
#23900374 - 12/06/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can you get paper pellets from pet stores or pet sections in bigger shops, as an alternative. I've used a 50/50 paper pellets and rich compost mix, works fine, no issues.
I would make trays of cakes and flip them in a row, then case.
Pleurotus pulmonarius can fruit 10 - 30°C.
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: Ferather]
#23900610 - 12/06/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I'd be doing either 4, 400 square foot beds, or 6, 300 square foot beds, depending on what cultures I can get my hands on without breaking the bank. These are going to be inter-cropped with our full-season veges in bio-intensive, organic, raised beds (I don't mean "wood framed" raised beds, I mean farming raised beds that are shaped by a tractor). I'm willing to use fuel pellets to get the bulk spawn started, but after that I'm only going to purchase bio-mass by the cubic yard (if I have to).
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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MorePies
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 808
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: Ferather]
#23900763 - 12/06/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know why you would buy paper pellets in the pacific northwest when you undoubtedly have access to cheap and plentiful ag waste streams. Look to divert a waste stream first!
On submerged log rafts you could do Reishi, Nameko, Black Poplar, Maybe enoki. You could also do a more traditional log cultivation with them as well. I think the raft idea is cool.Have you considered making log totems? Oyster and Lion's Mane do really well on them.
Agaricus Blazie is a tropical type that will die at sub 35 degrees F and the spawn can't be refrigerated. It does need a composted and then pasteurized substrate. I've never seen it grown outside, but it probably can if it doesn't freeze. Just laid out in a row with some sort of casing.
Wood blewitt spawn is supposed to be easy to make with the rhizomorphic stem butts and cardboard, or just by blending the butts up and pouring them on a compost pile. This is coming from a Tradd Cotter lecture I attended, so there is probably more info on the web about this method. Just reread and saw that you made a clone! Want to share
Elm Oyster should be easy on a mix of wood chips. And of course King Stropharia.
I haven't the faintest on outdoor morel cultivation, good luck!
Tips would be to call your local tree pruning and road crews to see if they ever chip up more choice stuff and if they can deliver. It's probably real cheap to get a few yards dropped off. Also, don't eat anything you can't identify. Something unintended might get in there instead!
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MorePies
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 808
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: MorePies]
#23900774 - 12/06/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just saw your second post.
You could expand your spawn into pasteurized wood chips in ventilated totes.
Another note is that long skinny beds produce more than square ones.
Sounds like an awesome project! I hope to see some pictures as it takes shape to learn some techniques for my own garden next season.
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Hobbyist
Citizen


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 805
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: flyontoast]
#23901023 - 12/06/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're in the PNW, don't you have a lot of alder up that way?
Why don't you just hit some of it with a chainsaw or toss it in a chipper and make your own hardwood material for little cost?
Also, I recommend against diverting water.
-------------------- Everything i say is completely hypothetical...
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: MorePies]
#23901342 - 12/06/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MorePies said: On submerged log rafts you could do Reishi, Nameko, Black Poplar, Maybe enoki.
I can't do log rafts because we need to be able to till the land next year, or even mid-season. The long-term goal is to use this technique to actually reduce the amount we have to till, but if it doesn't work out, or if there is a primary (i.e. vegetable) crop, the row would be tilled in and replanted or cover cropped. In which case, your point about A.Blazie is a good one because it'd turn into an annual mushroom rather than a perennial one. But I still might test it since most all vegetable crops are annuals anyway and we have to rotate the beds.
Quote:
MorePies said: Wood blewitt spawn is supposed to be easy to make with the rhizomorphic stem butts and cardboard, or just by blending the butts up and pouring them on a compost pile. This is coming from a Tradd Cotter lecture I attended, so there is probably more info on the web about this method. Just reread and saw that you made a clone! Want to share
I am happy to share. I only took the clone this week (rescued a few buttons before the snow came!), so gotta get a clean sample first. Send me a PM with your address and I can send you a clean wedge, and if you are willing to trade send me a PM with your list.
Quote:
MorePies said: Tips would be to call your local tree pruning and road crews to see if they ever chip up more choice stuff and if they can deliver.
I haven't looked too deeply into this because my neighbors are a fish compost producer and a pasture raised beef producer, and they get dump trucks dropped off weekly. The problem is pruners don't discriminate between hardwoods and confiners, including cedar. So our cattle neighbor makes terrible compost, which we know from experience, because it's just too damn high in cedar. Although the ag waste place up the street that doesn't accept cedar only charges $50 for a heaping pick-up truck load of mixed chips (around 350lbs probably), and I've bought some that I'm about to test. If this stuff doesn't work, I'll consider paying pruners to separate their chips.
Quote:
MorePies said: Another note is that long skinny beds produce more than square ones.
Sounds like an awesome project! I hope to see some pictures as it takes shape to learn some techniques for my own garden next season.
Good to know, because our raised beds are 36" wide and 180' long lol. I'll be "installing" all this in the spring right before we start transplanting our seedling. I'll try to documenting it for sure. Thanks for the input!
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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flyontoast
Farming food; farming time


Registered: 08/20/16
Posts: 258
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: Hobbyist]
#23901363 - 12/06/16 08:43 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hobbyist said: You're in the PNW, don't you have a lot of alder up that way?
Why don't you just hit some of it with a chainsaw or toss it in a chipper and make your own hardwood material for little cost?
Also, I recommend against diverting water.
Yes, there is even alder around the farm. If the stuff I got from the ag waste depot doesn't work, I might have to resort to this. My long term plan is to plant and coppice new trees.
Also, one of the primary reasons for this project is to reduce the amount of water we use, no increase. We're 3 acres of mixed veges and expanding to 10 acres very quickly, so a dense mycelial matt and straw mulch would conserve water. My goal is to grow the most sustainable food, including mushrooms
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My trade list Looking for strong terrestrial fruiters for an outdoor beds experiment: Agaricus Bitorquis, Agaricus Augustus, Agaricus blazei/subrufescens, Stropharia Rugoso-annulata, Clitocybe Nuda (blewits), and any species or other genus that you think work outdoors. Also, any commercially viable Pleurotus, cold or hot strains. Thanks for the Q&A, trades, and all the posters & teachers that have come before us
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Hobbyist
Citizen


Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 805
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: flyontoast]
#23901403 - 12/06/16 08:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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The bit about diverting water was in reference to morepies mentioning diverting ag streams. Perhaps he didn't mean water though.
-------------------- Everything i say is completely hypothetical...
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MorePies
Stranger
Registered: 02/09/16
Posts: 808
Loc: TX
Last seen: 1 month, 3 days
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: Hobbyist]
#23901755 - 12/06/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Hobbyist said: The bit about diverting water was in reference to morepies mentioning diverting ag streams. Perhaps he didn't mean water though.
I was talking about agricultural waste streams. For example, straw is the remaining stem after the grain is harvested, a very marketable waste. Another not so marketable one would be corn cob and stalk, or grape vines.
I think the agaricus and stropharia would be your best bets to start with if you're looking to till next season. I have done outdoor beds of King Stropharia with a pile of chips that had at least 30% pine in it as well as leaves, grass, and pine needles. I layered it with straw and it fruited 4 months later (april-august in upstate NY). It's just a beast. It probably won't be all broken down, but well on it's way to not draw a bunch of nitrogen to finish.
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Ferather
Mycological



Registered: 03/19/15
Posts: 6,325
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Outdoor bed varieties? [Re: MorePies]
#23902336 - 12/07/16 06:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dam theres a lot of substrate availability in the US.
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