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Offlineninjaindisguise
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Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees
    #23897103 - 12/05/16 03:03 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So I am fairly confident that all 5 of my jars have wet spots to some degree, however 3 of them are at about 95% colonization despite this. I would like to try to fruit them anyways and was planning to cut out the existing wet spots with a sterile knife. I was wondering, however, if I should treat these cut areas with peroxide or cauterize them with a soldering iron or something similar to kill any remaining contams. I also saw someone mention dunking bacterial cakes in water with dilute peroxide, is this a feasible solution? Thanks!


album url: http://imgur.com/a/ElTyM
Edit: Adding some pictures of the jars.

Edit 2: also these have been colonizing for over 4 weeks now and have progressed very little if at all over the last week.


Edited by ninjaindisguise (12/05/16 04:56 PM)


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: ninjaindisguise]
    #23897698 - 12/05/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Those look pretty nasty. I would bury them outside in the garden, in a pot somewhere or more likely a trash can. :smirk:

I know its not what you want to hear, but they aren't worth trying to save.

You have to figure out why this happened. Examine all the possible things that you could have done wrong. I think your jars may have started out too wet.


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Offlineninjaindisguise
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: egobrain]
    #23898062 - 12/05/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

:frown: damn, well thanks for the honest advice.

As a last ditch effort to save my mushroom growing honor, would you check out these pics that are less localized and are of the 2 best jars? thanks.






My current theories are that possibly the vermiculite was too large in chunk size (a grower friend of mine said this). Also I will do two PC cycles of 50 Mins each separated by a day next time to kill bacillus endospores that may be residing in my dry vermiculite.

Would it be reasonable to leave them in some sunlight in the jars and see if I get some in vitro fruiting? Or are these too contaminated to be safe to eat ever?


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: ninjaindisguise]
    #23898499 - 12/05/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Would you eat visibly slimy and bacteria contaminated food from your fridge?

If you are really set on getting fruits from these, you could try casing them and fruiting out of the jars. I personally wouldn't eat anything grown in vitro from those jars, if anything even grows. If they smell nasty when you open them, I'd just throw them out...

You don't need to PC two separate days. And 50 mins is almost not long enough. Make sure you are getting the cooker up to pressure before you start counting down your time. Are you following a tek? Moisture content is super important.


Edited by egobrain (12/05/16 10:27 PM)


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Offlineninjaindisguise
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: ninjaindisguise]
    #23898562 - 12/05/16 10:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Fair enough, I'll toss them.

I'm following the pf tek based on PF.

The reason I said PC twice is that I have heard that bacillus endospores are extremely heat resistant and some can survive a PC, but live bacillus can not. By doing it twice you give the surviving endospores time to germinate, allowing you to kill the germinated bacillus.

How long would you PC 1/2 pint BRF cakes? Also I am at high altitude, maybe this means more time is required?

Also as a side note, my jars don't smell off at all, does this indicate a unusual species of bacillus or does that just happen sometimes?


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: ninjaindisguise]
    #23898595 - 12/05/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Try upping the PC time, a solid 60 minutes at 15 psi should suffice..

I can't comment on bacillus surviving a PC; I'm not sure. I'm also not sure if altitude affects a PC enough to worry. :shrug:

Make absolutely sure no water gets into the jars during PC'ing. If you used an incubator, try not using one next time. Jars will colonize at room temp just fine. Higher temps (around 80) will favour bacterial growth.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: egobrain]
    #23898608 - 12/05/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You should pressure cook for 90 minutes+

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23898646 - 12/05/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

No, you should steam sterilize for 90 minutes+.

Pressure cooking and steam sterilizing are different my friend.


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: egobrain]
    #23898659 - 12/05/16 11:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20048739#20048739

They are different but the times are similar. I have seen alot of people going for the whole two hours.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: The Mycologist]
    #23898666 - 12/05/16 11:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Its not necessary, but its not going to hurt. I would actually advise OP to try 2 hours.

Thanks for pointing out that thread.


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Offlineninjaindisguise
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Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: egobrain]
    #23899750 - 12/06/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Here is an interesting source describing the resilience of endospores to high temp wet heat if anyone is interested.
http://mmbr.asm.org/content/64/3/548.short
It looks like at 110 C endospores should die after an hour and at 120C they should die within minutes, these temperatures should likely be met by a pressure cooker, however Wikipedia indicates that at high altitudes the actual pressure and temperature inside a pressure cooker is lower and requires 5% longer cooking times per 1000 ft (no citation provided though). This doesn't easily translate to the chart in the Nicholson article though :frown:.
I think I will try with a much longer pressure cooking cycle, thanks for the suggestion egobrain.


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Invisibleegobrain


Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 180
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Bacterial contamination in 5 jars, varying degrees [Re: ninjaindisguise]
    #23901634 - 12/06/16 10:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Nice find!

A simple google search actually just came up with this..

PC Altitude Adjustment

It states: For every 1,000 feet above 2,000-foot elevation, you must increase cooking time by 5 percent.


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