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OfflineMarkosheehan
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other psychedelics
    #23896663 - 12/05/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

hi can someone give me a list of psychedelics that dont affect 5ht2 a/b/c receptors that are introspective. i know this is kind of hard cause most drugs that are introspective affect these receptors. the reason i ask is cause its been linked to valvular heart disease


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Offlineimpaired420
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23896946 - 12/05/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Salvia divinorum is the only one that comes to mind.


--------------------
"Our task must be to free ourselves...
By widening our circle of compassion,
To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein


Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23896951 - 12/05/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure that's just with SSRIs but I could be wrong.

Also it's a hypothesis and it said that most evidence out there refutes that hypothesis.


People don't get heart disease from traditional psychedelic drugs.


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897019 - 12/05/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

well i am not one hundread percent sasying its true but it you look it to it its not encouraging espicially if you do them a lot which i like to do, i am trying to be be as safe as possible and please show me evidence of studies of having psilosin with no link with it. and ye i was thinking salvia but is there any others?


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23897026 - 12/05/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23897170 - 12/05/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Markosheehan said:
please show me evidence of studies of having psilosin with no link with it. and ye i was thinking salvia but is there any others?




So you're asking me to disprove a negative? That'd be like trying to prove "God doesn't exist" or some nonsense like that.

Why would there be studies that "prove" psilocin has no link with heart disease? That's just stupid because there's no reason to even think it does and no it being a 5htp antagonist doesn't mean shit.

The link you provided said: "Numerous reports have shown an unquestionable association between fibrotic valve disease and the following drugs: ergot alkaloids (such as methysergide and ergotamine), ergot-derived dopaminergic agonists (such as pergolide and cabergoline) and drugs metabolized into norfenfluramine (such as fenfluramine, dexfenfluramine and benfluorex)."

^They said nothing about psilocin/psilocybin and they made a point about dopamergic drugs not anything else.

Also Salvia is not a psychedelic. Plus I'm pretty sure this heart disease nonsense is only for drugs that release serotonin which psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD do not.


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Offlineimpaired420
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897210 - 12/05/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

How is salvia not a psychedelic?
You can argue because it's so dissociating it isn't a psychedelic but aren't all psychedelics dissociating in the right amount?

Is it because it's a k-opioid receptor agonist?
It is indeed a psychedelic.

I'll also concur that psilocybin shouldn't attribute to any heartproblems.
I could see how lysergamides could be harmful because of how speedy they are but idk man sounds like a bunch of hearsay so far.


--------------------
"Our task must be to free ourselves...
By widening our circle of compassion,
To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein


Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897217 - 12/05/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Also these conniving mother fuckers said "even just weekly use of MDMA can cause this"

Wtf...they act like weekly use for MDMA is somehow not a lot even though that's a fucking shitload.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: impaired420]
    #23897220 - 12/05/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

impaired420 said:
How is salvia not a psychedelic?
You can argue because it's so dissociating it isn't a psychedelic but aren't all psychedelics dissociating in the right amount?

Is it because it's a k-opioid receptor agonist?
It is indeed a psychedelic.




Salvia is an atypical dissociative.
I wouldn't consider Ketamine or DXM to be psychedelic either.


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Offlineimpaired420
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897315 - 12/05/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Sure if you want to get technical about it but it is still indeed a hallucinogen.


--------------------
"Our task must be to free ourselves...
By widening our circle of compassion,
To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein


Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: impaired420]
    #23897423 - 12/05/16 04:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes of course it's a hallucinogen I just like making the distinction between the different types of hallucinogens because not all of them are safe (since people usually regard psychedelics as "safe" so it's better to make clear that not all hallucinogens are psychedelic); deliriants for example.

If you want to get really technical though Salvinorin A is an atypical dissociative terpene with psychedelic characteristics. Not actual full on psychedelic effects but just characteristics.

THC is an atypical psychedelic terpene with dissociative characteristics.

So even though Salvia is unique in that it has "psychedelic characteristics" it isn't technically a psychedelic since it by default leans more to the dissociative side of things.
Just like how cannabis has "dissociative characteristics" but isn't technically a dissociative, not to mention it leans more towards the psychedelic side of things but is sometimes dependent on dose.


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Offlineimpaired420
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897509 - 12/05/16 05:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You're totally correct.
But since we are knit picking salvinorin A is actually a diterpene, different mechanisms compared to terpenes like THC which store actives in a circular gland. Diterpenes like salvinorin secrete actives instead of storing them.

But yeah I'd consider it a psychedelic myself just because of how little of a dose you need to achieve hallucinations.
You can eat 5grams of mushrooms and be dissociated as well.


--------------------
"Our task must be to free ourselves...
By widening our circle of compassion,
To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein


Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.


Edited by impaired420 (12/05/16 05:06 PM)


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: impaired420]
    #23897523 - 12/05/16 05:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yea but do you even consider this disconnection psychedelia?
I just consider it disconnection or dissociation. :shrug:

Hallucinogenic? Sure, but psychedelic? I'm not so sure about that.

The only drug I know of that is both a legitimate dissociative and a legitimate psychedelic would be Ibogaine.

That drug actually has full blown psychedelic effects whereas I see something like Salvia just having some psychedelic "qualities"
Idk


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Offlineimpaired420
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23897650 - 12/05/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Salvia has psychedelic effects.
Just because high doses of salvinorin result in a pretty dissociative trip, low doses do result in very lysergamide like ways.

Low salvia doses result in similar lysergic head space, I've even experienced tactile and auditory hallucinations, just like traditional psychedelics, but just oddly different at the same time.

I think dosages would play a big role in this argument considering it's active in microgram ranges it's a multifaceted compound.


--------------------
"Our task must be to free ourselves...
By widening our circle of compassion,
To embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty." -Albert Einstein


Offering salvia divinorum clones, leaf, and extracts for trades legal states.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: impaired420]
    #23897684 - 12/05/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I've just never seen Salvia as a psychedelic and I don't get how you could call it one since it has far more dissociative effects than anything.

What psychedelic effects does salvia even have? Because I haven't heard of any. No emotion enhancement, no personal meaning enhancement, no novelty enhancement, no creativity enhancement I mean really none of that. It doesn't even cause pattern recognition enhancement.

Also tactile and auditory hallucinations happen on all kinds of hallucinogens not just psychedelics. In fact they're far more common on deliriants than anything else and some people actually theorize that it has characteristics of not just psychedelics but deliriants as well.

I've never heard anyone compare a low dose of salvia to lysergamides. I did hear somewhere though (not sure if this is true) that Salvia, Ketamine and LSD all work on a similar receptor that most hallucinogens don't seem to effect or something along those lines.

Salvia is just too different from psychedelics. It's different from ordinary dissociatives too but it fits more with them than anything and it has a similar mechanism of action as well as effects like depersonalization and derealization which are not inherent effects of psychedelics.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23897707 - 12/05/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Amanita muscaria


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: flickedbic]
    #23900027 - 12/06/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

there is not a lot known about amanita muscaria


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OfflineMarkosheehan
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23900034 - 12/06/16 02:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

can you please read this and explain any conclusions they come too?

https://www.reddit.com/r/DrugNerds/comments/2mqqww/psilocin_and_5ht2b_agonism_induced_cardiotoxicity/


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan]
    #23900139 - 12/06/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

After reading through the thread, it seems only daily use over several years could be an issue, while most people take mushrooms only a few times a year.

This could have implications for long-term microdosing regimens however, altho most take a couple days off in between microdoses.

I would be interested in further analysis.  Perhaps this thread would be better suited for the "Chemistry and Pharmacology" sub-forum?


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: other psychedelics [Re: Markosheehan] * 1
    #23900449 - 12/06/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

My conclusion is that it's complete bullshit and has no evidence to back it up whatsoever.


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