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OfflineShrms
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Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii)
    #23889765 - 12/03/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hello together,

after growing cubensis and panaeolus I am going to try growing some edibles, starting with Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii and shiitake. I am absolutely new to cultivation of these species, but i am looking forward to it.

Here what i have done until now:

Few weeks ago I bought fresh oyster and eryngii mushrooms from our supermarket and cloned it (cut a piece out of the middle of the stem and throwed it on agar). The mycelium colonized the agar very fast, faster than any cubensis / panaeolus I have seen before. After that I prepared rye (RR's procedure), in the same way I prepare for all mushrooms before.

The mycelium colonizes fast as hell, but it looks a little strange to my. Very thin and long strings, comparable to cobweb maybe (know cobweb from photos, never saw it real). But ok, it is another species and not comparable to the mycelium i am used to.

On day six after inoculation or so, some white knots developed in both oyster jars (jar was 50% colonized i think).

Today, 11 days after inoculation there are thousands of white knots everywhere, jar is nearly at 100% colonization.

The eryngii jars are at 95% colonization and don't show the white stuff.


Here are some photos:

Oyster jars:
 

Eryngii:


Here are my questions:
1.Does this look normal so far? Escpecially the oyster jars.
2.Should I shake the jars for faster colonization? Maybe to late now

My plan is to use a straw based substrate and growing in bags, but i don't have a detailed strategy yet... have to do some reading work in the next days :smile:


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23889791 - 12/03/16 07:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

At first, the first image said growing from condensate, does happen. The rest say bacterial avoidance.
The glass is acting as a safe grow zone away from bacteria, where it can grow freely.

Take note of the patching, and the surface says "escape" all over.


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Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23889844 - 12/03/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I am not sure if I get you right, you say all of the jars are bacterial and the mycelium is trying to escape :confused:

That's bad news, so I have to dump everything and start from scratch or is there a chance that the mycelium wins?

I did a lot of other rye jars (cubensis) and they are doing well.

Another question, what temperature would you recommend for these species? They growed at room temperature (65°) and I did not put them into my incubator (82°).


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23889895 - 12/03/16 08:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The Oyster I was talking about, the Eryngii looks ok so far.

What would you spawn to if you left it to continue?


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23889903 - 12/03/16 08:21 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Room temp is fine for oysters. Considering you never shook there could be some areas like you have. I don't see metabolites. If it were me I would  wait a bit longer. If They fill in some more use them. Shake the kings , the bottom pictures?


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23889928 - 12/03/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
The Oyster I was talking about, the Eryngii looks ok so far.

What would you spawn to if you left it to continue?




My plan was to use pasteurized straw as substrate (in a bag), maybe I can add some wood chips. I am looking for a detailed recipe currently, but these are the materials I have at home right now.

Maybe an alternative are straw pellets, as I learned today it is not necessary to pasteurize the substrate. Sounds easy and time saving, but I don't have them right now.

Quote:

Quadman said:
Room temp is fine for oysters. Considering you never shook there could be some areas like you have. I don't see metabolites. If it were me I would  wait a bit longer. If They fill in some more use them. Shake the kings , the bottom pictures?




I did not shake any of the jars because I did not know if it is possible and good for these strains.


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OfflineMattisfat
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Quadman]
    #23889930 - 12/03/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have a feeling the oyster jars are going to turn green soon


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Mattisfat]
    #23889985 - 12/03/16 09:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

With pluerotus, I find that after dropping the wedges in a d waiting a day or two for them to recover before shaking, they are less likely to stick to the sides. This happens to me a fair amount when I shake tight after inoculating. After that,  shaking again at 25%-30% is enough.

The top pictures look contammed. If they weren't,  the last picture could have been used a day or two ago. I look for complete mycelia coverage, but still being able to see individual grains.


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: MorePies]
    #23943114 - 12/20/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey,

I gave it a try and used all jars and spawned them to substrate consisting of straw pellets, gyspum, lime according to the TEK of AlCapone2k.

I created 2 bags (2 jars per bag) about 12 days ago. I saw some white spots of mycelium after one day and after 2 or 3 days white spots everywhere.

But the last 10 days nothing happens, it seems mycelium is sleeping, at least at the surface.

Here some pics (left = eryngii ; right = oyster)


So what do you think, are they both contaminated or are there other reasons? Maybe to little holes (which I poked through the bag with a small needle) and as a consequence not enough air exchange?

I cannot detect any weird spots that look like contaminations, but I don't have the experience to realize it.

Both bags look completely the same to me, so I hope there can be another reason :frown:


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23943318 - 12/20/16 12:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yes they need more than a few needle holes. My fear is the bags becoming anaerobic. The kings should be quite a bit slower. No sign of contaminte. Looking good!


--------------------


Edited by Quadman (12/20/16 02:55 PM)


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Quadman]
    #23943374 - 12/20/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It's actually difficult to suffocate something that can grow into solid wood, underground or underwater.
99.99% chance of bacterial deterioration of the substrate along side pathogenic behavior.

Picture 3 has mild metabolites, but also yellow mycelium (taking damage).
I also see decaying straw and no mycelium present in patches.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23943542 - 12/20/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

If that were true we could eliminate expensive filter patch bags, holes in jar lids. The problem is going anaerobic without sufficient air exchange.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Quadman]
    #23943619 - 12/20/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I have never modified any of my containers, although I use clip on lids.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23949166 - 12/22/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey mate,

I'm glad that you use my "tek" :smile:

Unfortunately it seems that your myc is stalling due to contamination. The jards didn't look that well, actually I already have fruited jars like yours and they worked, but I also had these stalling behaviour with jars like yours. I think it's a bit "rolling a dice".

Actually it should not take more than 5 days until the whole bale looks white.


How many holes have you stabbed into the foil? I stab 4 holes from top to the bottom every 0,5-1 inch around the bale, which means a lot of holes. Maybe you had too less?


I'm sorry that it didn't work for you :frown:


Regards


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23949297 - 12/22/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I stabbed a lot of holes, I cannot say exactly but maybe too less. Furthermore it was a very thin needle, maybe the holes are to small.

I opened both bags 2 days ago to give a fresh air boost and stabbed more holes with a bigger needle and it seems to work for the eryngii but I a not sure.

Here's a pic from today:




I just wait some more days, but I think the right one (oyster) is trash :frown:


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23949309 - 12/22/16 02:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I also think so, it should be really, really white after these days of colonization.

During colonization you don't need so much FAE, just GE, which is established through the small holes all around the bale.

What temperature do you have in the room the bales are in?


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23949321 - 12/22/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It is about 66°F (19° C) give or take, that's the same temperature range during colonization of the rye jars where it worked pretty well.


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23949364 - 12/22/16 02:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, 19 °C is absolutely fine. This is not the reason.

I think at least for the second bale it's a contamination.

The smalls holes aren't any problem - sometimes I use a normal cloth needle, so the holes can't be too small :smile:


Maybe some time will bring a full colonization.


Regards


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23950110 - 12/22/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I almost want to totally agree that those first jars of oysters looked contaminated, if it weren't that I've had many, many jars of oysters look just like that with all the white knots, and end up growing out just fine.  Yeah it probably is contaminated to some degree, but I'd do what Al said and just give it some time. 

Those bags do look quite moist, maybe that's the reason for slow colonization?  Either way, I'd still give it time and see what happens, oysters are quite aggressive.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineAlCapone2k
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Forrester]
    #23952008 - 12/23/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Actually the moisture content seems to be the same like it is in my bales. It has to be quite moist in there.

I think it's just bad spawn which led to this stalling. The jars doesn't look good actually.

I would just let these bales colonize, if they get really white, start fruiting. If they stalled totally, toss them or bury them in your garden.

Start again and you'll do better, don't give up! :smile:


Bales have to look similiar like them after at least two weeks:




--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23957694 - 12/26/16 05:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There is some progress in growing, I don't know if it was caused by opening the bags to give them some air and poke in more holes with a bigger needle or just coincidence.

Here what is looks like today:

The eryngii sended vital signs one day after opening the bag and since yesterday the oyster is also getting more white. White christmas :smile:

Here a close up of the eryngii:



As you can see the mycelium gets very thick and knotty at some areas, especially around the holes.

Is this the right moment to cut the slits into the bags? And where should I set the cuts, just through the white thick areas of mycelium or near it? And how many slits overall?


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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23957722 - 12/26/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The legt one looks nice.

I think the growth was caused by the bigger holes.

Now just cut slices directly over these knots. You can also cut slices at other places, the fresh air there will cause growth :smile:

Just cut the slices in x-pattern, so that the foil can open when the pins grow through it :smile:

Regards


--------------------
Since I am from Germany, my english is not perfect but I try my best :smile:




My small Agar to Oyster Open Air Grow Trek


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23960566 - 12/27/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ok done so far, let's see what happens next. The right oyster bag is getting more white every day, I think I can cut it an a few days too.

I have also some shiitake rye jars and I wonder if there is bacterial contamination. So I want to show it to the experts:


Are these wets spots contaminated or is it just caused by pressing the rye against the glass? Use or toss?

Another question, can anyone recommend a good TEK for shiitake? My plan so far is to sterilize a substrate (wood chips / saw dust / wheat bran / gypsum) in a filter bag and then add the spawn. Is sterilizing mandatory or are there non-sterile techniques as the straw pellet tek I used for the oyster / eryngii? Since I have no experience with sterilizing in bags and only a small pressure cooker I would prefer this, or try two different approaches.


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OfflineQuadman
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23960587 - 12/27/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Shiitake jars look good . I see no problems. I've only used sterilized so can't say if there is another way. Shiitake seems a little slow on grain to me, but colonizes bags fairly quick.


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Quadman]
    #23960727 - 12/27/16 02:57 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

From what I can tell from the pics the grains look good to me. I look for these attributes in bacterial spots: wet clump, slimy, thick, oily, discolored,I colonized Islands surrounded by uncharacteristically thick mycelium, and finally smell. There might be one or more attributes to indicate contamination.

If you supplement,  then from need to sterilize. Yields are higher on sterilized substrates. If you just use chips, Sawdust, and gypsum,  then you can Pasteurize. I am unfamiliar with the tek  you mentioned anf can't say if it will work, but generally Sawdust Pasteurization is done in bag so that the proper hydration can be maintained.


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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: MorePies]
    #23989165 - 01/07/17 10:56 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Here an update on the eryngii:




Some caps are cracked a little bit, besides this they look okay to me.

And I have two questions:

1: I misted everything on daily basis including entire fruit body - is that ok? It is hard to hit only the substrate.
2: Ready for harvesting or give them another day? They are about about 3-4 inch. Harvest also the small ones?


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #23989235 - 01/07/17 11:19 AM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Shouldn't mist King oysters, now you have bacterial blotch.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23989432 - 01/07/17 12:28 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Nice job those kings look good for open air! The larger ones look good to me. Enjoy:smirk: you can try and give the little guys a few days.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Quadman]
    #23989715 - 01/07/17 02:36 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

The caps are being eaten, and on the lower right you can see a mushroom being eaten.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23989951 - 01/07/17 03:58 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Not blotch, just dry. Nice grow!


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: MorePies]
    #23990885 - 01/07/17 08:50 PM (7 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Ferather said:
Shouldn't mist King oysters, now you have bacterial blotch.




I disagree.  I mist the fuck out of mine, whole fruits and all.  Looks to me like either dry, or more likely, just the smaller ones naturally aborting. 
Quote:



MorePies said:
Not blotch, just dry. Nice grow!




^^^ agree.  Or naturally aborting due to there being a good amount of bigger ones, like I said before.  Really think it's that.  Not bacterial blotch.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFerather
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Forrester]
    #23991853 - 01/08/17 09:03 AM (7 years, 22 days ago)

I could be wrong, but it looks like figure "A" from Mushroom growers handbook.
Mostly the second pic, bottom fruit (two circular dips) and bottom right.

I hope I am wrong, and it's abnormality to dryness.


--------------------
                   

Growing mushrooms, general guide and information (Ferather's Journal), https://ibb.co/rG3rML2

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27857366#27857366

DTS DCH Driver for Realtek [DTS:X] - Unlocked and reprogrammed.


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Ferather]
    #23992514 - 01/08/17 01:58 PM (7 years, 22 days ago)

Chubby stems,  tapering to a brown/tan cap are characteristics of aborting. My bet is that those are abnormalities left over from severe humidity fluctuatations.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: MorePies]
    #23996993 - 01/09/17 11:43 PM (7 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

MorePies said:
Chubby stems,  tapering to a brown/tan cap are characteristics of aborting. My bet is that those are abnormalities left over from severe humidity fluctuatations.




Exactly.  See the cracks in some?  Yellow below the cap on one?  Them got dry.  No worries, best to let some prune themselves anyway.  Nobody wants a shitload of really tiny mushrooms, and that's what you can get with kings if you give them "too good" of conditions and don't prune or have a strain more prone to "self-pruning".


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineShrms
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Forrester]
    #24006559 - 01/13/17 08:44 AM (7 years, 17 days ago)

Thanks for all advice so far, I cooked them in a pan together with some portobello and they were fine :thumbup:

Now I come up with some more questions..

Here the eryngii after harvest:


I removed only the cluster of the big mushrooms I showed on the pictures.

1: Do I have to remove all mycelium knots / clusters and all small mushrooms? They grow very slow / are stalling since harvesting.
2: I tried to remove the mushrooms by twisting and pulling a little bit (like I do for cubensis) and pull out the first layer (about 1mm) of the substrate. (you can see in the right picture, now after a few days it is white again).Should I better use a knife and try to cut everything near the surface?

Here the oysters:



I opened the bag during colonization because mycelium growth was stalling and I wanted to let some fresh air in. After that there was a gap between substrate and bag and all mycelium knots built at the top and not near my slits... so I cut off the complete bag. Because I didn't want them to dry out like the eryngii I put them in plastic box to keep the humidity high (actually it was my old SAB with two 4" holes covered with a SFD). I know this setup is not optimal but i thought it is better than open air. They are relatively small and the caps are curved (I think I should harvest them 1-2 days ago..)

3: What is your opinion to the mushrooms? Is the small size related to low FEA because of my box-method?


Finally another project, I have 2 fully colonized bags of shiitake:



My plan is to cut off the upper part of the bag and try to fruit them open air with daily misting.

4: Is that possible? Or should I try to grow them in the bag? Other ideas / TEKs?

Maybe I should buy a mini greenhouse for the next growing and then hopefully all worries are history :smile:


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OfflineMorePies
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: Shrms]
    #24006988 - 01/13/17 12:04 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

I dig your go for it attitude! Those oysters suffered from lack of fae, and they are very over ripe in those pictures. Pick them when the cap is still curled under. Oysters need a lot more air than a sgfc provides.

You will have more success browning the shiitake in the bag. This process takes about 8 weeks from inoculation. It looks like you're about 5 weeks out.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Beginner starts edibles (Pleurotus ostreatus/eryngii) [Re: MorePies]
    #24007968 - 01/13/17 06:27 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

King
Quote:

MorePies said:
Those oysters suffered from lack of fae, and they are very over ripe in those pictures. Pick them when the cap is still curled under. Oysters need a lot more air than a sgfc provides.





+1 to that.

Although those look SO air-deprived it's almost difficult to tell if they're over-ripe, since all you can see are stem-gills and almost no caps at all.  But look at those 2 tiny ones on the left in pic 2, those look almost perfect and the edge of the cap isn't curled up at all.

But yeah, it's probably both.  Oysters, especially blues, need lots more airflow.  And that biggest one on top of pic 2 does certainly look super curled in and over-ripe. 

When you do get the airflow down, you'll want to harvest when they look like those 2 small ones on the left, BEFORE the edges of the cap start to curl up AT ALL.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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