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Offlinezzripz
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cults, psychedelics, and mind-control
    #23884879 - 12/01/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Watched this fascinating documentary on BBC 4 all about this Australian cult from the 1960s called The Family. Will try to boil it down. This very narcisistic women and her husband started a cult where they stole babies, and others children, and she dressed them all in these clothes (like you saw in The Sound of Music, the Van Trap family look) with same hairstyles that were blonde and looked like the Children of the Damned styles.

She claimed she had had a visions after LSD experience which foresaw the end of the world, and it was her divine roles to help children to escape their karma, which only she could do. Sho told them they had millions of lives with built up karma, but she knew how to end it so this would be their last lifetime.

She had children taken to a psychiatric hospital where they were given LSD, and psilocybin, and at a crusical part of the trip she had this effigy look-alike of herself appear to them in dry ice so it would make them come out of their trip believing she was god-like!!!

She had these people in all forms of power positions helping her in this insanity.

That dry ice event reminded me of what I had read about the ancient Eleusinian Mysteries where the participants were also shown this event they weren't allowed to talk about. Most likely actors dressed like 'the gods'...?

But this just made me think--which I am aware of--that psychedelics CAN be used for nefarious mind control as well as good.

This evil control-freak insane bitch caused terrible lives for these children, as well as when they got older, beatings, post trauma, grief, suicides!!

So what would you see as clues they -psychedelics- were being used for mind control is the question?

What for you would be the warning signs for you?



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23884956 - 12/01/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

of course this story, and the Manson story, and Jim Jones story, and Heavens gate story are all horrible. As was the CIA experimentation on unsuspecting people with LSD, which Manson also used.

However every day all kinds of things try to control people constantly in society
One could even say 'society' itself' has control mechanisms, including seemingly ordinary things like language and clothing -- hence the different clothing of the hippies in the 1960s.

I was just studying consumerism, which of course brings, up advertising, money, TV, etc. all control mechanisms, if not originally so by design, then later bent to that purpose.

I posted some interesting links in the American Dream thread re: the history of consumerism thread, I have yet to study the invention of credit more.


Edited by laughingdog (12/01/16 03:53 PM)


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Invisibleellomello
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885038 - 12/01/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

codename: MKULTRA


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885216 - 12/01/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
of course this story, and the Manson story, and Jim Jones story, and Heavens gate story are all horrible. As was the CIA experimentation on unsuspecting people with LSD, which Manson also used.

However every day all kinds of things try to control people constantly in society
One could even say 'society' itself' has control mechanisms, including seemingly ordinary things like language and clothing -- hence the different clothing of the hippies in the 1960s.

I was just studying consumerism, which of course brings, up advertising, money, TV, etc. all control mechanisms, if not originally so by design, then later bent to that purpose.

I posted some interesting links in the American Dream thread re: the history of consumerism thread, I have yet to study the invention of credit more.




project pinecomb


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885220 - 12/01/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

psychedelics are great for mind control.  especially when its about being "free" and "enlightened" or meeting "god" or having the "truth" revealed.

that and a host of other uses.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885238 - 12/01/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885641 - 12/01/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

same with therapists
hence they have ethical codes
but even so shit happens

of course as we start to wake up
we also discover that we have done, or are still doing harm to our selves

Buddha:
"Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm."


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885688 - 12/01/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

true enough


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885736 - 12/01/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?


Edited by falcon (12/01/16 08:55 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23885922 - 12/01/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Religions are cults. :cookiemonster:
Quote:

Some written observations under the influence of the doctrine of Catholicism account the use of the mushroom among the Montezumanic people. Allegedly - during the emperor's coronation ceremony, many prisoners were sacrificed, had their flesh eaten, and their hearts removed. Those who were invited guests to the feast ate mushrooms, which Diego Durán describes as causing those who ate them to go insane and many to take their lives.




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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: falcon]
    #23886392 - 12/02/16 12:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

l


Edited by The Blind Ass (12/02/16 01:45 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23886652 - 12/02/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.




these are warning signs I would beware of:

a person claims a vision which tells me about existence, and MY existence, and claims to be able to help me if I do what they say.

A ritual which is designed for you.(like happened the the victims of The Family cult where an effigy was supposed to make them think their cult leader was a goddess.

being administered psychedelics without your knowledge, or say so.

But may I ask you them, how do YOU experience psychedelics? Do you have any magical sense regarding what they open up?


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: ellomello]
    #23886688 - 12/02/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ellomello said:
codename: MKULTRA





This is some messed up stuff! Where did you find this image? Where can I read more MK-ULTRA related stuff?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: falcon]
    #23886704 - 12/02/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?




the  context is the dhammapada
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dhammapada+pdf&t=h_&ia=web
free here
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/scrndhamma.pdf
page 29

I don't know Pali, or have a Pali dictionary handy, or a Pali copy of the text.
All of these can probably be found online.

considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.

Charles Dickens christmas story with 'Scrouge' is about a person whose negative thinking is causing suffering in many lives - I think a similar point is being made -
and of course Buddha wants to point out one can chose to do the opposite. Especially if one trains the attention and not just thought.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23886715 - 12/02/16 06:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
....

these are warning signs I would beware of:






Guy who started out a 'spiritual' teacher in the US and moved to the far east so he could be a "God" -- surprisingly not everyone thought it was a warning sign, it seems.

from wiki:

Adi Da Samraj, born Franklin Albert Jones (November 3, 1939 – November 27, 2008[1]), was an American spiritual teacher, writer and artist.[2] He was the founder of a new religious movement known as Adidam. He changed his name numerous times throughout his life; these names included Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Da Love-Ananda, Da Kalki, Da Avadhoota and Da Avabhasa, among others. From 1991 until his death, he was known as Adi Da Love-Ananda Samraj or Adi Da.[3]

Adi Da initially became known in the spiritual counterculture of the 1970s for his books and public talks, and for the activities of his religious community. His philosophy was essentially similar to many eastern religions which see spiritual enlightenment as the ultimate priority of human life.[4][5][6] Distinguishing his from other religious traditions, Adi Da declared that he was a uniquely historic avatar (incarnation of a god or divinity in human form). As such, Adi Da stated that henceforth devotional worship of him would be the sole means of spiritual enlightenment for anyone else.[7]


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OfflineXpandedMind
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23886834 - 12/02/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There are so many instances in history of powerful drugs being used in cults or religions in attempts to control the mind. I believe this was done with some sick addiction to power and need to have control over people. I see that most of the known instances of this are isolated to cults, religions, or even government programs like mk-ultra. I believe that these instances were not isolated at all, and these practices were adopted and employed on a much larger scale. I may suggest that the mass use psychotropic drugs today could be a warning sign. In a time when we are bombarded by strange advertising methods, subliminal messages, and propaganda constantly. Wouldn't it be logical to think that the over-prescription of these drugs along with the ability to effect the minds of billions of people via radio, tv, internet, mainstream music, etc. could be used as a mass mind control? Why? The world is a mess, there is no contesting this. In order for the economic systems in place to continue people cannot wake up to this or that would more than likely be the end of them. The end of them, means the end of the reign of the capitalist, consumerist, materialist mentality, and the end of profits related to that model. So of course those reliant on this model (our leaders, and consequently all of us) will grasp at any straw possible in order to avoid its (IMO) necessary downfall.


--------------------
"For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen..." - Alan Watts


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23887089 - 12/02/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Laughing dog said:
considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.




This is a narrowing of what the mind dwells on, as would be training of attention, in English I feel a better way to express these sentiments would be keep an open mind and cultivate attention.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23887580 - 12/02/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.




these are warning signs I would beware of:

a person claims a vision which tells me about existence, and MY existence, and claims to be able to help me if I do what they say.

A ritual which is designed for you.(like happened the the victims of The Family cult where an effigy was supposed to make them think their cult leader was a goddess.

being administered psychedelics without your knowledge, or say so.

But may I ask you them, how do YOU experience psychedelics? Do you have any magical sense regarding what they open up?




thats on the right track for the most part. 

me?  certain psychedelics are just like a little shock to bring me to my senses.  like a record player skipping , repeating the same part of a song, psilocybe mushrooms will take the needle and reposition it so that the song may continue on its path to completion.



they arent as big a deal as some make out to be here on the boards, and they like any other powerful medicine can be abused and cause serious harm.

I see them purely for medicinal reasons or coming of age/rite of passage ritual. I see a theme or pattern of Humans becoming "stuck" in molds so to speak , unlike other animals on the planet.  Its a kind of sickness i suppose ...  psychedelics can if done responsibly in certain conditions  for certain disorders allow one to be unstuck for a time, and get a shove in the right direction.

This is one level of use

ex.  someone who has been fighting major depressive disorder and does not want to take drugs continually for it, and talk therapy and other things have helpd but maybe failed to lift the heavy fog it brings into ones life.

ex. PTSD - someone has ptsd from a major car wreck and can no longer get into a vehicle without panic. Or someone was abused by  a man/woman and can no longer be around a man/woman.
or a Solider has nightmares and daily triggers because of following some sketchy but dutiful orders while in the military.

ex. a family of (insert number here 2-7) have a dysfunctional relationship for years and seek a session where self defense mechanisms are lowered and where communication can be done at from a more genuine and non ego level so they can move on and heal and live.

ex.  a man with deep existential angst towards living when he does not know what meaning there is in the life he lives and for years fails to seek meaning in his life even though he has changed life styles .

ex.  a man or woman become a drug addict after suffering a very restricted and abusive childhood and turn to morphine dependency to cope  - but in his heart knows he just needs a another chance to really live again. But has failed conventional treatment many many times and has lost hope in ever recovering and living a normal life - yet still wants to grow and change.

ex. Cancer patient has deeply terrifying angst of dying because he/she feels unresolved in his/her relationships in recent years of their life and seeks meaning.

these are some (maybe badly phrased) examples of medicinal/therapeutic uses for psilocybe mushrooms.

some what like the old shamanic traditions but without as much hocus pocus. 

but thats also because part of my culture it has a context and its own place. was that clear? I just woke up and I have been sick for a while so Im a little loopy


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/02/16 01:34 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23887691 - 12/02/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

falcon said:
Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?




the  context is the dhammapada
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dhammapada+pdf&t=h_&ia=web
free here
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/scrndhamma.pdf
page 29

I don't know Pali, or have a Pali dictionary handy, or a Pali copy of the text.
All of these can probably be found online.

considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.

Charles Dickens christmas story with 'Scrouge' is about a person whose negative thinking is causing suffering in many lives - I think a similar point is being made -
and of course Buddha wants to point out one can chose to do the opposite. Especially if one trains the attention and not just thought.





http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html

this is a great website with the Pali Canon and the Dhamapada and just about every sutta , use the search.  Thannasario Bikkhu did an amazing job on it,.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23887770 - 12/02/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the cittavagga : the mind

a sutra that will give you a depiction of how the word "mind" is translated .  it gives you a good indicator of what the word points to in reality.  the words, Absent, yet Apparent, come to mind.:jimmies:


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23887771 - 12/02/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23887779 - 12/02/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

33. Just as a fletcher straightens an arrow shaft, even so the discerning man straightens his mind — so fickle and unsteady, so difficult to guard.

34. As a fish when pulled out of water and cast on land throbs and quivers, even so is this mind agitated. Hence should one abandon the realm of Mara.

35. Wonderful, indeed, it is to subdue the mind, so difficult to subdue, ever swift, and seizing whatever it desires. A tamed mind brings happiness.

36. Let the discerning man guard the mind, so difficult to detect and extremely subtle, seizing whatever it desires. A guarded mind brings happiness.

37. Dwelling in the cave (of the heart), the mind, without form, wanders far and alone. Those who subdue this mind are liberated from the bonds of Mara.

38. Wisdom never becomes perfect in one whose mind is not steadfast, who knows not the Good Teaching and whose faith wavers.

39. There is no fear for an awakened one, whose mind is not sodden (by lust) nor afflicted (by hate), and who has gone beyond both merit and demerit. [6]

40. Realizing that this body is as fragile as a clay pot, and fortifying this mind like a well-fortified city, fight out Mara with the sword of wisdom. Then, guarding the conquest, remain unattached.

41. Ere long, alas! this body will lie upon the earth, unheeded and lifeless, like a useless log.

42. Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm.

43. Neither mother, father, nor any other relative can do one greater good than one's own well-directed mind.

44. Who shall overcome this earth, this realm of Yama and this sphere of men and gods? Who shall bring to perfection the well-taught path of wisdom as an expert garland-maker would his floral design?

45. A striver-on-the path shall overcome this earth, this realm of Yama and this sphere of men and gods. The striver-on-the-path shall bring to perfection the well-taught path of wisdom, as an expert garland-maker would his floral design. [7]

46. Realizing that this body is like froth, penetrating its mirage-like nature, and plucking out Mara's flower-tipped arrows of sensuality, go beyond sight of the King of Death!

47. As a mighty flood sweeps away the sleeping village, so death carries away the person of distracted mind who only plucks the flowers (of pleasure).

48. The Destroyer brings under his sway the person of distracted mind who, insatiate in sense desires, only plucks the flowers (of pleasure).

49. As a bee gathers honey from the flower without injuring its color or fragrance, even so the sage goes on his alms-round in the village. [8]

50. Let none find fault with others; let none see the omissions and commissions of others. But let one see one's own acts, done and undone.

51. Like a beautiful flower full of color but without fragrance, even so, fruitless are the fair words of one who does not practice them.


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Invisiblelittleton
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23887915 - 12/02/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The Japanese know mind controll. Ive seen a guy take control of another guys mind and psychicly made the man pull off his own nuts.
The dude sarted screaming afterwords.
Some real serious shit.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: littleton]
    #23888118 - 12/02/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

where did you see that


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: XpandedMind]
    #23888212 - 12/02/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

XpandedMind said:
There are so many instances in history of powerful drugs being used in cults or religions in attempts to control the mind. I believe this was done with some sick addiction to power and need to have control over people. I see that most of the known instances of this are isolated to cults, religions, or even government programs like mk-ultra. I believe that these instances were not isolated at all, and these practices were adopted and employed on a much larger scale. I may suggest that the mass use psychotropic drugs today could be a warning sign. In a time when we are bombarded by strange advertising methods, subliminal messages, and propaganda constantly. Wouldn't it be logical to think that the over-prescription of these drugs along with the ability to effect the minds of billions of people via radio, tv, internet, mainstream music, etc. could be used as a mass mind control? Why? The world is a mess, there is no contesting this. In order for the economic systems in place to continue people cannot wake up to this or that would more than likely be the end of them. The end of them, means the end of the reign of the capitalist, consumerist, materialist mentality, and the end of profits related to that model. So of course those reliant on this model (our leaders, and consequently all of us) will grasp at any straw possible in order to avoid its (IMO) necessary downfall.




Yes! If you can take a look at this. Am currently watching it, and it is saying same thing.

I already am aware how the psychedelic movements spanning generations 60s to 90s etc were infiltrated by transhumanist ideals via such leaders as Timothy Leary (who was an Aleister Crowley freak)and Terrence McKenna and his promise that technology will be our saviour and the whole '2012 'prophecy'thing. This is the larger cultist mindcontrol agenda, right? IE the monetary class are all setting a transhumanist agenda! And they would see psychedelic minds as good ground for their mind control tricks.

In this video it is claiming rapper Kanye West is warning that the mainstream entertainment and fashion industry is leading people as like in a mindcontrol cult via occultism etc



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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23888333 - 12/02/16 05:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

hence why I only ingest alone. or with family. in nature with no music and nothing with me but sustenance.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/02/16 05:29 PM)


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23888343 - 12/02/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

leary worked for the CIA as an asset.  so did alot of the other guys back then who were big.  gov. let the cat out of the bag with psychs anyways.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23889237 - 12/02/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

Yes! If you can take a look at this. Am currently watching it, and it is saying same thing.

I already am aware how the psychedelic movements spanning generations 60s to 90s etc were infiltrated by transhumanist ideals via such leaders as Timothy Leary (who was an Aleister Crowley freak)and Terrence McKenna and his promise that technology will be our saviour and the whole '2012 'prophecy'thing. This is the larger cultist mindcontrol agenda, right? IE the monetary class are all setting a transhumanist agenda! And they would see psychedelic minds as good ground for their mind control tricks.

In this video it is claiming rapper Kanye West is warning that the mainstream entertainment and fashion industry is leading people as like in a mindcontrol cult via occultism etc






I have seen many different videos, reports, and articles regarding this particular subject. All very interesting, but hard to believe at first. What sold me was witnessing a family member actually experience these things. He was claiming to be recieving messages telepathically. I assure you these messages he would explain were incredibly evil in their context. I was in shock when he would explain them to me and was very skeptical at first even frightened of him. I immediately assumed it had to be schizophrenia or some other mental disorder. However, this person has always been generally awesome, intelligent, kind, and had no pre-disposition of these illnesses. He was in his late 30's at the time this began to happen. I decided I was going to keep close to him, mostly because I cared a great deal for this person. I do have to admit though i became extremely curious as to why this was happening. He started to be open with other people about these things. Almost immediately after that he was, against his will, taken into a psychiatric hold for months. When he came out he wasnt even the same person. Almost literally a zombie. He can hardly string together proper sentences. Even months after his release. He is gone. Idk what happen, or why, or how. I do know there is some wicked shit in this realm we are not fully aware of, and I sure as hell monitor my thoughts with great awareness.


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"For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen..." - Alan Watts


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23889724 - 12/03/16 05:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:

I already am aware how the psychedelic movements spanning generations 60s to 90s etc were infiltrated by transhumanist ideals via such leaders as Timothy Leary (who was an Aleister Crowley freak)and Terrence McKenna and his promise that technology will be our saviour and the whole '2012 'prophecy'thing. This is the larger cultist mindcontrol agenda, right? IE the monetary class are all setting a transhumanist agenda! And they would see psychedelic minds as good ground for their mind control tricks.




Oh for fucks sake. :facepalm:


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23890041 - 12/03/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
33. Just as a fletcher straightens an arrow shaft, even so the discerning man straightens his mind — so fickle and unsteady, so difficult to guard.
...
51. Like a beautiful flower full of color but without fragrance, even so, fruitless are the fair words of one who does not practice them.



what are you quoting and why?
MK-ULTRA - BAD.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Middleman]
    #23890046 - 12/03/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

zzripz said:

I already am aware how the psychedelic movements spanning generations 60s to 90s etc were infiltrated by transhumanist ideals via such leaders as Timothy Leary (who was an Aleister Crowley freak)and Terrence McKenna and his promise that technology will be our saviour and the whole '2012 'prophecy'thing. This is the larger cultist mindcontrol agenda, right? IE the monetary class are all setting a transhumanist agenda! And they would see psychedelic minds as good ground for their mind control tricks.




Oh for fucks sake. :facepalm:



I know! :facepalm:


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Middleman]
    #23890319 - 12/03/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

zzripz said:

I already am aware how the psychedelic movements spanning generations 60s to 90s etc were infiltrated by transhumanist ideals via such leaders as Timothy Leary (who was an Aleister Crowley freak)and Terrence McKenna and his promise that technology will be our saviour and the whole '2012 'prophecy'thing. This is the larger cultist mindcontrol agenda, right? IE the monetary class are all setting a transhumanist agenda! And they would see psychedelic minds as good ground for their mind control tricks.




Oh for fucks sake. :facepalm:




...errrrm is not this response trolling? Which is against the rules?

Please therefore explain in DETAIL why you respond to what is being said that way?


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23891012 - 12/03/16 03:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
33. Just as a fletcher straightens an arrow shaft, even so the discerning man straightens his mind — so fickle and unsteady, so difficult to guard.
...
51. Like a beautiful flower full of color but without fragrance, even so, fruitless are the fair words of one who does not practice them.



what are you quoting and why?
MK-ULTRA - BAD.




someone asked  about what the buddha meant by mind beyond just one quote


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23891168 - 12/03/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

its in the Tipitaka (pali canon/oldest buddhist recorded chronicles/discourses of gotama buddha to his followers long ago) > khuddaka > Dhammapada > Cittavagga .  Citta is one of 3 words for "Mind" relating more so to "mind state" such as to refer to the ever changing mind states one goes through during a day.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/03/16 04:19 PM)


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23891176 - 12/03/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

ie.  distracted mind, or mind filled with the emotion of anger, or mind free'd from delusion, and greed, etc etc.  The shifting mind states that occur during ones day. it is to that Mind that the word points.

someone asked, thats why i posted all this.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23892019 - 12/03/16 08:50 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

so you mean to be a sobering influence pointing to clarity of the dhammapada and abhidhamma?
good luck,with that.

they seem to prefer paranoid delusion here much more than understanding mind moments, with properties and states.

maybe if you had sensational news, but something recorded 800 years ago wont help much.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #23892134 - 12/03/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I do.  It may be worth it for the random lurker that they stumble upon it instead of fleeting temporary drug experiences or magical thinking.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23892142 - 12/03/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).”

Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: falcon] * 1
    #23892191 - 12/03/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

that is my favorite pair of books

I don't think you can swallow dhammapada without Alice's curiosity


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23892273 - 12/03/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

psychedelics may be good for one thing  ( of this one thing atleast ): samvega

Urgency & awe = samvega. Other meanings for this term include shock, dismay, & alienation. In the Pali canon, this emotion is often accompanied by fear and a sensed need to escape from overwhelming danger. The things that should inspire urgency & awe are the first four of the five reflections  "I am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging. I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness.

I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death. I will grow different, separate from all that is dear & appealing to me." Appropriate exertion is indicated by the fifth reflection: "I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have by actions as my arbitrator.

Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir."

beyond this I have great doubt about psychedelics, even in the face of my own experiences.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/03/16 10:10 PM)


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23892912 - 12/04/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

they arent as big a deal as some make out to be here on the boards, and they like any other powerful medicine can be abused and cause serious harm.

I see them purely for medicinal reasons or coming of age/rite of passage ritual. I see a theme or pattern of Humans becoming "stuck" in molds so to speak , unlike other animals on the planet.  Its a kind of sickness i suppose ...  psychedelics can if done responsibly in certain conditions  for certain disorders allow one to be unstuck for a time, and get a shove in the right direction.




Just because you don't believe psychedelics are a 'big deal' does not mean the TRUTH is that.
If psychedelics had not been a big deal to the human species then how come they are the very central cource of mythologies, religion, and philosophy, and creative innovation.

And how come almost globally they are a number one controlled drug?

IE someone IS seeing them as a big deal, ey?


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #23892918 - 12/04/16 05:25 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think you need to de-emphasize your scriptural (philosophical) load, and increase your practice (functional enlightenment).
The benefits of psychedelics are not listed in Buddhist cannon:

a) Buddhism is a culture and a religion as well as being a spiritual path, so the content is sanitized to ensure that the social integration is impeccable. (how would the "temples" receive so much public support if there were pro-drug content in scripture?).

b) Psychedelics as well as any mental practice can take a dark path or a light one. They clearly do not guarantee anything like enlightenment (MK-ULTRA for instance).

c) when it comes to mind control, after studying about ctta etc., the true-est thing is that we do not control mind, however we can cultivate mind through habit - association (==attachment) is the fabric of mind, things that happen together are joined in memory, things that are like each other are joined in memory. Understanding that enables a kind of control of the (future) reactions of the self through concerted efforts in the now of cultivating connections (practice). Those reactions are in control. Mind control is all about cultivation and triggering what is within the mind (which amounts to what has accrued including what has been cultivated).
It is an investment in associations so that beneficial reactions will be triggered - this is the practice.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23893402 - 12/04/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

here's a cult alright



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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23894226 - 12/04/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I think you need to de-emphasize your scriptural (philosophical) load, and increase your practice (functional enlightenment).
The benefits of psychedelics are not listed in Buddhist cannon:

a) Buddhism is a culture and a religion as well as being a spiritual path, so the content is sanitized to ensure that the social integration is impeccable. (how would the "temples" receive so much public support if there were pro-drug content in scripture?).

b) Psychedelics as well as any mental practice can take a dark path or a light one. They clearly do not guarantee anything like enlightenment (MK-ULTRA for instance).

c) when it comes to mind control, after studying about ctta etc., the true-est thing is that we do not control mind, however we can cultivate mind through habit - association (==attachment) is the fabric of mind, things that happen together are joined in memory, things that are like each other are joined in memory. Understanding that enables a kind of control of the (future) reactions of the self through concerted efforts in the now of cultivating connections (practice). Those reactions are in control. Mind control is all about cultivation and triggering what is within the mind (which amounts to what has accrued including what has been cultivated).
It is an investment in associations so that beneficial reactions will be triggered - this is the practice.




well said.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23899275 - 12/06/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
here's a cult alright






seeing there seems little interest amongst others here to do with this fascinating subject matter, I choose for now then to wonder and ask questions myself to myself what ever THAT is?

Is it possible to not be part of a cult?

What is the etymology of 'cult'?


Quote:


cult (n.) Look up cult at Dictionary.com
    1610s, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from French culte (17c.), from Latin cultus "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence," originally "tended, cultivated," past participle of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "a devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.

        Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree. [Rawson]





worship and reverance to a god, to an idea, to a person, and/or persons.

because you usually get that in what is mostly known about cults. A very charismatic individual has power over the other usually VERY needy cultists, and there is a hierarchy of initiations with this individual at the top.

We see how emotion is manipulated. In the Christian cult the emotion is centralized around an image of 'Jesus' who was 'very good' and was the 'only Son of God' and be gets tortured and crucified to death, and believers are told he 'died for our sins'. So this is extreme emotional conditioning towards this central figure and also guilt that he went through that for 'me'.

Real critical questioning in such cults are not allowed. And in cults like Freemasonary you are initiated and told you must not share anything about what goes on as an insider. And there are secret handshakes, and body language and symbols etc which are used as a secret form of code of communication between the members of the cult.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23899514 - 12/06/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

many many cults

consider this:


https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080719071811AA4821P

"Is the US military a cult?

A friend sent me this and got me thinking. What are your thoughts!?

BEWARE OF WEIRD CULT WHICH:

Uses promises of money, a job or other favors to recruit people.
Indoctrinates beginners in an armed camp until they're thoroughly
brainwashed.
Employs terror, assassination, murder or threats thereof.
Is particularly interested in the young and those who follow orders
without question.
Holds against their will members who want to leave.
Goes by many names, eg: The Service, military, Armed Forces, ROTC,
JROTC, recruiters, Defense, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, National
Guard, Green Beret."

more at website

************************

the abuse of the spiritual side of psychedelics is also not new
the Maya of central america were possibly the most sadistic people ever & used psychedelics
and all over the world shamanism has had a dark side, with spells and darts etc. for ages

mind control is an interesting subject - if you look at the video i just posted in the american dream thread with N. Chomsky, it becomes apparent most of us had & have no real idea of what is going on in the world  - the same is true as regards Edward Bernays -  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=EDWARD+BERNAYS --
who invented 'public relations' - and persuaded women to smoke by associating it with the women's liberation movement in the usa - a truly evil genius - behind much of capitalism

it's not a hidden story, but is totally ignored by the media and educational system , which i suppose one could say has some cult like elements --- how about culture? - possibly some might  just conclude that 'freedom' is usually a myth ... even plenty of jokes about marriage and 'freedom' --
-- and not to forget people like to further limit themselves by joining all kinds of unnecessary groups - such as becoming sports fans of a specific team - and expending great energy, expense and emotion over something totally arbitrary and meaningless -- and getting together in big groups and behaving idiotically -- but it's considered normal -- so some such tendencies can't be blamed entirely on manipulators, it would seem -- interesting to wonder about --- why are so many folks such joiners? -- interesting to wonder about ....


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23900504 - 12/06/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

"Is the US military a cult?

OMFG yes! And like other cults will use all forms of propaganda, symbols etc etc in irder to trick 'the lower classes' to join up.

Politicians declare wars, soldiers fight them.

Many come from this culture which is extremely oppressive and makes it so that many young men feel they have limited options, jobs of drudgery, crime, or poverty, and up pop the army cult vids etc promising 'adventure', and 'qualifications' and they fall for it cause they are already dumbed down by the cult of 'education' and mass media. Like you see--so many cults!

There is the cult of materialism, and consumerism. So you can come out of cults like 'The Family Cult' or the army cult, or the Christian cult etc and you now in the consumer cult! You worship it.

As I point out on the 'American Dream' thread, so-called experts like Noam Chomsky are also cult leaders. He will say 'looking into/asking questions about the JFK assassination or the 9/11 attacks is pointless. "who cares?1 and will get rounds of applause by his many sychophantic followers who rely on his every word and mannerism. To defy his 'great intellectual knowledge' by asking further questions is, in such circles, sacrilegious!

So THAT is a big clue to know if your in a cult--try asking questions and see what happens!


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23900567 - 12/06/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Some cults are about getting away from other cults.  I see them all the time.  Have been in some, mainly by accident and left quietly after getting a clue.  The military industrial complex has many cults - uniforms/costumes and all :lmafo: .  Joining groups is an interesting phenomenon, the range is vast.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/06/16 05:09 PM)


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23900825 - 12/06/16 06:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
"Is the US military a cult?

OMFG yes! ..... so-called experts like Noam Chomsky are also cult leaders. ....
So THAT is a big clue to know if your in a cult--try asking questions and see what happens!




Not sure what power you think Chomsky is wielding, or what you think his secret agenda is. He is not into drugging or killing people, like some other examples discussed here.
He sells his books and lectures, he doesn't run for office. And their are numerous videos, on youtube, of him being interviewed and asked questions that challenge his views and answering those questions, patiently and calmly in great detail, which is the opposite of demagoguery. His views are mostly liberal and humane.

I get that you don't like his views on what you consider to be important conspiracies, but to jump from that to proclaiming him to be a cult leader, seems as lacking in critical thought, as the mindsets that get folks into cults.

or in the vernacular:  chill dude


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23902260 - 12/07/16 04:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I get that you don't like his views on what you consider to be important conspiracies, but to jump from that to proclaiming him to be a cult leader, seems as lacking in critical thought, as the mindsets that get folks into cults.

or in the vernacular:  chill dude




... lol, well, taking that advice to rather critically look at, rather than be patronized into doing. A central way cults operate is to shame a person for asking questions. of course shaming is putting it mildyl if you look at the Christian cult's history. To question the entrenched beliefs was to get you charged as being a heretic where you could be literally burned alive.

In many New age cults the shaming is to be charged with being 'negative', because they pretend to be all 'positivity and light', so to question that must mean you are ruining that and causing negativity. This is a devious way to shut you the f up, and of course have other gang members attack you.

A recent video I have linked to (see latest one in the American Dream thread) we see Chomsky on his podium, and a member of the audience is asking a question about his stance on the 9/11 attacks.

You can sense (I can) the atmosphere is not friendly towards his questioning 'the great Noam Chomsky who holds different views', and Chomksy seems to have the geek looking security figure on stage with him who impatiently pressurizes the questioner to get on with the question quickly, totally not understanding that it is a complex question...obviously duh. And one would think that readers and listeners who can navigate through his labourious intellectually academicy books and talks would HAVE such patience, riiight? But no.

Then we see that when Chomsky responds to the questions, which for any intelligent person who is familiar with the 9/11 investigation is wholly pathetic and inadequate and uninformed, every thing that comes out of his mumbling mouth is applauded and hurrayed. And you are telling me that is not cult like behaviour...?

Me pointing this out is not being not 'chilled' but me looking at, and asking questions of. That is my freedom. Especially about such deep and important issues such as this.

Cults are notorious for trying to stifle questioning.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23902414 - 12/07/16 07:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

They love when you question yourself right into their neat little packaged answer that is bullet proof from critical thinking and somehow instills a sense of it being resonate with your own discernment.

Basically make someone feel schizophrenic or depersonalized/dissociated/isolated if they leave the cults belief/thought matrix-system.

If they get you to believe at a near core level then more than likely it will take great outside influence to help someone detox from such propaganda/programming.

on a side note , but related - Have you ever seen martha may marcy marlene? it is a movie that depicts what many people frequently experience after being separated from a cult that they have invested in.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23902631 - 12/07/16 09:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
- Have you ever seen martha may marcy marlene? it is a movie that depicts what many people frequently experience after being separated from a cult that they have invested in.




Watch martha may marcy marlene free at:

http://123movies.is/film/martha-marcy-may-marlene-13724/watching.html


Edited by Buster_Brown (12/07/16 11:13 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23903015 - 12/07/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

on a side note , but related - Have you ever seen martha may marcy marlene? it is a movie that depicts what many people frequently experience after being separated from a cult that they have invested in.




No, I'd like to see it. Can you link this thread to it?

#ooops didn't see above link. gonna check it later


Edited by zzripz (12/07/16 11:30 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23904932 - 12/07/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Brings back memories


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23909035 - 12/09/16 01:52 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I quit watching when it turned into a Manson reverie so perhaps I missed the gist of your example of either all cults are murderous or that the re-education of murderous cult members is a lost cause.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23909054 - 12/09/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I didnt have a point other than its a movie about someone leaving a cult so there are some semblences to others who have left cults at least psychologically.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23909066 - 12/09/16 02:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Brings back memories




How can we get you to wax eloquently; was it an Eastern influence? (edit typo Easter that we may liken to eggs at an impressionable age perhaps to hatch when the time is ripe)


Edited by Buster_Brown (12/09/16 02:35 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23909138 - 12/09/16 04:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

come again?


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23909173 - 12/09/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

You wanna wax eloquent about your cult experiences? We can wait for a separate thread if you like.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23909197 - 12/09/16 05:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Sure It will take a day to put a good thread together and think about the past but if you and some others want it then I can.  I am not doing well health wise right now so It will have to wait till I rest up.


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23909202 - 12/09/16 05:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

That'd be great.

Quote:

Asante said:
sharing events from my life because there's people who want to know. There's nothing boastful about it, just sharing my life to those interested.




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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #23909910 - 12/09/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I can briefly share MY cult experience. I did LSD when 15, and these were big powerful trips I had in that 15th year till past 16, so it really was a mindblower for me a kid

This all happened in complex circumstances of me chasing a dream and having to fend for myself more or less in a big city

Up to the LSD I had been absolutely obsessed with cities and the natrual world bored me, but LSD got rid of that which now I see as materialist mindcontrol---making us dead to the natural and totally dependent on the technomatrix city existence (which is leading to 'transhumanism!')

So to cut long story short. My dream doesn't materialize and I return to my hometown. I am though searching, and one day walking through the town centre a Hare Krishna devotee targets me (am 17 now), and sticks a hare Krishna mag in my face. On the cover is a pic of Krishna playing a flute, stood with a legs cross pose. it all looks very trippy, and I am drawn in.

They offer free food on certain nights so I began going, and then one of the devotees began visiting me at home, and eventually I decide to leave home and join their temply in Edinburgh Scotland, in January, the middle of winter!!!

So I gets there, and Edinburgh  IS freezing and it smelt like tea, or that stuff they put in beer.

The temply doesn't have much heating and we have to take COLD showers at 3:30 in the morning!!

I went on this singalong with em through streets there, 'hare krishna, hare krisha, hare hare...'etc and we got stones thrown at us by some youths

My cult job was washing up food dishes in cold water

One day I was doing what we weree supposed to do, chant hare krishna etcetc on these beads so many times. The purpose being to get Krisha as sole centre of consciousness. And I looked at these people pacing up and down doing this and thought 'this is a freakin madhouse!' and I quietly got my stuff together and sneaked out, but this very tall German devotee clocked me (had worked in kitchen with him and we are friendly) and tried to catch me but I escaped and got a ride on the back of a motor bike.

This had all been one week and it is still winter, and so dig. I have thin pants on, and am on bacl of a motor bike and it is freezing. When he stopped for us to stay at a friends for the night. I couldn't feel my legs lol. Like rubber

I carried on though still connected with the cult for a while longer at home and even went to the house that George Harrison had given then in Hertfordshire, because the 'spiritual master' Srila Praphupad was going to stay, and I met and shook Geroge's hand on the stairs of this grand house

I had this sexual fling with his body guard (this is all true) who had a sword and was given right to behead anyone who attacked the guru. This is how I came to meet George because I was close to Praphupad's room.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23910452 - 12/09/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hey
that's quite a story!
Thanks!


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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: redgreenvines]
    #23910671 - 12/09/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Glad you enjoyed it.

yes, the hare Krishna cult is all against the physical body. When the devotee used to come visit me and say i offered him a cushion, he'd reject it saying that the body cannot get used to comfort.

They viewed the bod as some hairy animal vessel which was inferior and prone to disease and death. This is why they wanted COLD showers at 3:30 in the freakin cold morning. To punish the body's love for warmth and comfort

They longed for a transcendental heaven on Krishnaloka where they could focus on krishna for ever and ever


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