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Offlinezzripz
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cults, psychedelics, and mind-control
    #23884879 - 12/01/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Watched this fascinating documentary on BBC 4 all about this Australian cult from the 1960s called The Family. Will try to boil it down. This very narcisistic women and her husband started a cult where they stole babies, and others children, and she dressed them all in these clothes (like you saw in The Sound of Music, the Van Trap family look) with same hairstyles that were blonde and looked like the Children of the Damned styles.

She claimed she had had a visions after LSD experience which foresaw the end of the world, and it was her divine roles to help children to escape their karma, which only she could do. Sho told them they had millions of lives with built up karma, but she knew how to end it so this would be their last lifetime.

She had children taken to a psychiatric hospital where they were given LSD, and psilocybin, and at a crusical part of the trip she had this effigy look-alike of herself appear to them in dry ice so it would make them come out of their trip believing she was god-like!!!

She had these people in all forms of power positions helping her in this insanity.

That dry ice event reminded me of what I had read about the ancient Eleusinian Mysteries where the participants were also shown this event they weren't allowed to talk about. Most likely actors dressed like 'the gods'...?

But this just made me think--which I am aware of--that psychedelics CAN be used for nefarious mind control as well as good.

This evil control-freak insane bitch caused terrible lives for these children, as well as when they got older, beatings, post trauma, grief, suicides!!

So what would you see as clues they -psychedelics- were being used for mind control is the question?

What for you would be the warning signs for you?



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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23884956 - 12/01/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

of course this story, and the Manson story, and Jim Jones story, and Heavens gate story are all horrible. As was the CIA experimentation on unsuspecting people with LSD, which Manson also used.

However every day all kinds of things try to control people constantly in society
One could even say 'society' itself' has control mechanisms, including seemingly ordinary things like language and clothing -- hence the different clothing of the hippies in the 1960s.

I was just studying consumerism, which of course brings, up advertising, money, TV, etc. all control mechanisms, if not originally so by design, then later bent to that purpose.

I posted some interesting links in the American Dream thread re: the history of consumerism thread, I have yet to study the invention of credit more.


Edited by laughingdog (12/01/16 03:53 PM)


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Invisibleellomello
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885038 - 12/01/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

codename: MKULTRA


--------------------
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden

some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885216 - 12/01/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
of course this story, and the Manson story, and Jim Jones story, and Heavens gate story are all horrible. As was the CIA experimentation on unsuspecting people with LSD, which Manson also used.

However every day all kinds of things try to control people constantly in society
One could even say 'society' itself' has control mechanisms, including seemingly ordinary things like language and clothing -- hence the different clothing of the hippies in the 1960s.

I was just studying consumerism, which of course brings, up advertising, money, TV, etc. all control mechanisms, if not originally so by design, then later bent to that purpose.

I posted some interesting links in the American Dream thread re: the history of consumerism thread, I have yet to study the invention of credit more.




project pinecomb


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885220 - 12/01/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

psychedelics are great for mind control.  especially when its about being "free" and "enlightened" or meeting "god" or having the "truth" revealed.

that and a host of other uses.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885238 - 12/01/16 05:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885641 - 12/01/16 07:52 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

same with therapists
hence they have ethical codes
but even so shit happens

of course as we start to wake up
we also discover that we have done, or are still doing harm to our selves

Buddha:
"Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm."


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23885688 - 12/01/16 08:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

true enough


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23885736 - 12/01/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?


Edited by falcon (12/01/16 08:55 PM)


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23885922 - 12/01/16 09:26 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Religions are cults. :cookiemonster:
Quote:

Some written observations under the influence of the doctrine of Catholicism account the use of the mushroom among the Montezumanic people. Allegedly - during the emperor's coronation ceremony, many prisoners were sacrificed, had their flesh eaten, and their hearts removed. Those who were invited guests to the feast ate mushrooms, which Diego Durán describes as causing those who ate them to go insane and many to take their lives.




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: falcon]
    #23886392 - 12/02/16 12:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

l


Edited by The Blind Ass (12/02/16 01:45 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23886652 - 12/02/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.




these are warning signs I would beware of:

a person claims a vision which tells me about existence, and MY existence, and claims to be able to help me if I do what they say.

A ritual which is designed for you.(like happened the the victims of The Family cult where an effigy was supposed to make them think their cult leader was a goddess.

being administered psychedelics without your knowledge, or say so.

But may I ask you them, how do YOU experience psychedelics? Do you have any magical sense regarding what they open up?


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OfflineWeAreMushroom
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: ellomello]
    #23886688 - 12/02/16 06:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ellomello said:
codename: MKULTRA





This is some messed up stuff! Where did you find this image? Where can I read more MK-ULTRA related stuff?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: falcon]
    #23886704 - 12/02/16 06:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?




the  context is the dhammapada
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dhammapada+pdf&t=h_&ia=web
free here
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/scrndhamma.pdf
page 29

I don't know Pali, or have a Pali dictionary handy, or a Pali copy of the text.
All of these can probably be found online.

considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.

Charles Dickens christmas story with 'Scrouge' is about a person whose negative thinking is causing suffering in many lives - I think a similar point is being made -
and of course Buddha wants to point out one can chose to do the opposite. Especially if one trains the attention and not just thought.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23886715 - 12/02/16 06:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
....

these are warning signs I would beware of:






Guy who started out a 'spiritual' teacher in the US and moved to the far east so he could be a "God" -- surprisingly not everyone thought it was a warning sign, it seems.

from wiki:

Adi Da Samraj, born Franklin Albert Jones (November 3, 1939 – November 27, 2008[1]), was an American spiritual teacher, writer and artist.[2] He was the founder of a new religious movement known as Adidam. He changed his name numerous times throughout his life; these names included Bubba Free John, Da Free John, Da Love-Ananda, Da Kalki, Da Avadhoota and Da Avabhasa, among others. From 1991 until his death, he was known as Adi Da Love-Ananda Samraj or Adi Da.[3]

Adi Da initially became known in the spiritual counterculture of the 1970s for his books and public talks, and for the activities of his religious community. His philosophy was essentially similar to many eastern religions which see spiritual enlightenment as the ultimate priority of human life.[4][5][6] Distinguishing his from other religious traditions, Adi Da declared that he was a uniquely historic avatar (incarnation of a god or divinity in human form). As such, Adi Da stated that henceforth devotional worship of him would be the sole means of spiritual enlightenment for anyone else.[7]


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OfflineXpandedMind
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23886834 - 12/02/16 08:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

There are so many instances in history of powerful drugs being used in cults or religions in attempts to control the mind. I believe this was done with some sick addiction to power and need to have control over people. I see that most of the known instances of this are isolated to cults, religions, or even government programs like mk-ultra. I believe that these instances were not isolated at all, and these practices were adopted and employed on a much larger scale. I may suggest that the mass use psychotropic drugs today could be a warning sign. In a time when we are bombarded by strange advertising methods, subliminal messages, and propaganda constantly. Wouldn't it be logical to think that the over-prescription of these drugs along with the ability to effect the minds of billions of people via radio, tv, internet, mainstream music, etc. could be used as a mass mind control? Why? The world is a mess, there is no contesting this. In order for the economic systems in place to continue people cannot wake up to this or that would more than likely be the end of them. The end of them, means the end of the reign of the capitalist, consumerist, materialist mentality, and the end of profits related to that model. So of course those reliant on this model (our leaders, and consequently all of us) will grasp at any straw possible in order to avoid its (IMO) necessary downfall.


--------------------
"For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen..." - Alan Watts


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23887089 - 12/02/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Laughing dog said:
considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.




This is a narrowing of what the mind dwells on, as would be training of attention, in English I feel a better way to express these sentiments would be keep an open mind and cultivate attention.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: zzripz]
    #23887580 - 12/02/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
they can be great to some for seeing how a psyche works under its influence.  then giving it to others knowing how they will react under certain conditions and taking advantage of it.  Saw it all the time with so called Guru's and Teachers and Religious man back when.

there is a nice little dark side to using psychedelics.




these are warning signs I would beware of:

a person claims a vision which tells me about existence, and MY existence, and claims to be able to help me if I do what they say.

A ritual which is designed for you.(like happened the the victims of The Family cult where an effigy was supposed to make them think their cult leader was a goddess.

being administered psychedelics without your knowledge, or say so.

But may I ask you them, how do YOU experience psychedelics? Do you have any magical sense regarding what they open up?




thats on the right track for the most part. 

me?  certain psychedelics are just like a little shock to bring me to my senses.  like a record player skipping , repeating the same part of a song, psilocybe mushrooms will take the needle and reposition it so that the song may continue on its path to completion.



they arent as big a deal as some make out to be here on the boards, and they like any other powerful medicine can be abused and cause serious harm.

I see them purely for medicinal reasons or coming of age/rite of passage ritual. I see a theme or pattern of Humans becoming "stuck" in molds so to speak , unlike other animals on the planet.  Its a kind of sickness i suppose ...  psychedelics can if done responsibly in certain conditions  for certain disorders allow one to be unstuck for a time, and get a shove in the right direction.

This is one level of use

ex.  someone who has been fighting major depressive disorder and does not want to take drugs continually for it, and talk therapy and other things have helpd but maybe failed to lift the heavy fog it brings into ones life.

ex. PTSD - someone has ptsd from a major car wreck and can no longer get into a vehicle without panic. Or someone was abused by  a man/woman and can no longer be around a man/woman.
or a Solider has nightmares and daily triggers because of following some sketchy but dutiful orders while in the military.

ex. a family of (insert number here 2-7) have a dysfunctional relationship for years and seek a session where self defense mechanisms are lowered and where communication can be done at from a more genuine and non ego level so they can move on and heal and live.

ex.  a man with deep existential angst towards living when he does not know what meaning there is in the life he lives and for years fails to seek meaning in his life even though he has changed life styles .

ex.  a man or woman become a drug addict after suffering a very restricted and abusive childhood and turn to morphine dependency to cope  - but in his heart knows he just needs a another chance to really live again. But has failed conventional treatment many many times and has lost hope in ever recovering and living a normal life - yet still wants to grow and change.

ex. Cancer patient has deeply terrifying angst of dying because he/she feels unresolved in his/her relationships in recent years of their life and seeks meaning.

these are some (maybe badly phrased) examples of medicinal/therapeutic uses for psilocybe mushrooms.

some what like the old shamanic traditions but without as much hocus pocus. 

but thats also because part of my culture it has a context and its own place. was that clear? I just woke up and I have been sick for a while so Im a little loopy


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Edited by The Blind Ass (12/02/16 01:34 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: laughingdog]
    #23887691 - 12/02/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

falcon said:
Does this not translate well or was Buddha exaggerating? Does the word that is translated as mind encompass a larger meaning from where this quote came than it would in English or is there some more that can be learned by looking at the larger work that this quote came from and the context there?




the  context is the dhammapada
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dhammapada+pdf&t=h_&ia=web
free here
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/scrndhamma.pdf
page 29

I don't know Pali, or have a Pali dictionary handy, or a Pali copy of the text.
All of these can probably be found online.

considering what happens
if one fills ones mind with thoughts of revenge, or those that cause paranoia,
it begins to become clear;
and depression can result in suicide.

Charles Dickens christmas story with 'Scrouge' is about a person whose negative thinking is causing suffering in many lives - I think a similar point is being made -
and of course Buddha wants to point out one can chose to do the opposite. Especially if one trains the attention and not just thought.





http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html

this is a great website with the Pali Canon and the Dhamapada and just about every sutta , use the search.  Thannasario Bikkhu did an amazing job on it,.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: cults, psychedelics, and mind-control [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #23887770 - 12/02/16 02:12 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the cittavagga : the mind

a sutra that will give you a depiction of how the word "mind" is translated .  it gives you a good indicator of what the word points to in reality.  the words, Absent, yet Apparent, come to mind.:jimmies:


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