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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Jesus died for our sins?
#23884559 - 12/01/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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So he was dead for three days then gets to live forever. Let's calculate exactly how much of a sacrifice that is. As 3/infinity does not compute, let's divide 3 by the current age of the universe.
3/13,000,000,000 = 0.0000000000230769
To put it another way, that would be like a man who's worth is $130,000,000 giving a penny to a homeless man.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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The story is an allegory. So taking it apart literally makes you look like a fool.
What are you trying to prove?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/01/16 01:53 PM)
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The story is an allegory. So taking it apart literally makes you look like a fool.
I've yet to meet a Christian who didn't think it was literal.
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: What are you trying to prove?
Just a guess, but I'd say the absurdity of this specific religion and it's stories.
And funny.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: Tmethyl] 1
#23884591 - 12/01/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are millions of Christians. Many interpretations of Biblical stories. I have met a few people who take the stories just like a student of philosophy undertakes reading The Allegory Of The Cave. I have met a few more that take it literally.
If your trying to help someone who has misinterpreted a story, your method is flawed, and in effect it may actually be hurtful. Really now... This method of attack is pointless and you may lose the interest of someone immediately. Like a Child that does not understand Santa Clause and the story it represents and the teachings it bestows .... you ease it in pal.
This is not a compassionate way , especially if the person who are speaking with is known to be religious and has not gotten around to thinking about things in such a way yet.
Be honest, sure. But do it kindly, and be smart about it. This is not being smart.
Looks like someones still acting out. Which is not really much better at extolling the virtues of wisdom , than taking stories to be literal.
And most religions I have had the pleasure of knowing have similar stories to this one, and I find the same thing. A range of interpretations of it. They are your brothers and sisters - go the extra length to make your point in a way so that if you were in their position you would be able to see what was being unveiled without being blinded by the light.
I am not religious but have met many who are and are not, and there are the same types of people within religions and out of them.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/01/16 02:08 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The story is an allegory. So taking it apart literally makes you look like a fool.
What are you trying to prove?
As being considered a fool is worth about 1/8th of my total self esteem, it is obvious that my sacrifice is much greater than JC's.
OC posted for your sins.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,658
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Well then I see where this is going. Good day gentleman.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (12/01/16 02:11 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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You do? 
I haven't a clue.
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Khancious
da Crow



Registered: 12/05/12
Posts: 628
Loc: Behind Everything
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I'm so attractive it's coming to me,
don't CROSS me out yo
-------------------- I am that, which is.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: Khancious] 3
#23884659 - 12/01/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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NebulaTomb
Stranger

Registered: 12/01/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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" Be reconciled to God,God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Corinthians 5:20-21
Yeshua (Jesus) took the Wrath of YHWH (the Father) on Himself for the payment of the sins of those who accept Christ as Lord and Savior. As in a court of Law, we stand guilty before YHWH, and will be Judge perfectly by Him. Christ, through His Blood , paid for the sins of all who cone to Him.
we cannot be perfect sacrifices because we are not without sin. We deserve punishment. Yeshua did not.
-------------------- "Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as you would against a robber? While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.” Luke 22:52-53
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OakTree
Schmoak Tree

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 509
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Last seen: 7 months, 23 days
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: Tmethyl]
#23884694 - 12/01/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've yet to meet a Christian who didn't think it was literal.
This is what is a shame about Christianity.
To give an idea of where I stand, Atheists say I'm a Christian and Christians say I'm an Atheist (Richard Dawkins also says I'm an Atheist in The God Delusion, although I think he focuses as much on literal and surface-level issues as the Christians that OP refers to).
I think once upon a time a man lived and this man was somewhat a genius in the fact that he understood the simplicity of the fact that if everyone loved everyone and helped each other and didn't screw each other over the world would be a better place. Quite a bit like Buddha, Lao Tzu, Ghandi, and the numerous folks mentioned in the Baha'i tradition. The story of this man became diluted over the years, and when the Roman Empire eventually adopted this religion, it incorporated many of its former Pagan beliefs into the tenets of the religion for the purpose of making it familiar to the people and to make it easier to convert the masses (the Plebeians as they called them) and control them. After all, Rome's signature move was to conquer and control.
The combination of the dilution of the story and the information added by the Romans, combined with the exclusion of certain books which depicted this man as a human instead of a god (i.e. the apocryphal texts/gnostic gospels) led to the superstitious aspects of his story. **I will say, Quantum Physics has all but proven that his miracles are possible; their probability just happens to be very low. This is beside the point however**.
When the English language was developed, the name given to this man was Jesus, and as the religion based around this man progressed, it became less concerned with his teachings of love, compassion, truth, and the fact that if we all help one another out the world will be a better place, and became more concerned with the magic stories. After all, magic is kind of like a shiny red ball; it catches people's attention without them having to think too hard.
People get too caught up in what they call "faith", which basically means to believe things that don't make sense in order to gain brownie points from an old white guy with a beard sitting on a golden throne in the clouds who will smite you if you don't do what the preacher tells you. What these people don't understand is, Jesus' actual message is provable, therefore you don't need blind faith. He basically just said "if everyone is nice to each other, life will be easier and more enjoyable". He also said some pretty cool things that are very reminiscent of Taoism, Buddhism, and Quantum Physics (which came 2,000 years later. As I said, somewhat of a genius). I won't go into these because I'd need to go back and find specific references and what not, and I don't have time right now.
Anyway, my point is that I have found, through extensive research, that Christianity has to a large extent missed the point. As a quick example (only one, I promise), I have a book called "Catechism of the Catholic Church". Catechism basically means a summary of what a group of people believes, so it is a book on how to be a good Christian. It is 756 pages of rules on how to be a Christian. However, Jesus said "my burden is easy, my yolk is light". So Jesus says it's easy while the church makes it so difficult that nobody could do it (unless they pay the church enough money, eh?). So either Jesus is a liar (in which case the entire religion is invalidated), or the church has missed the point. When you think about it, it's pretty easy to be nice to people, so my bet is on option B).
Sorry for the long post; this subject interests me very much. I think the actual historical guy around which the religion started was probably a great and interesting guy. However, having been raised Catholic I can tell you that for the most part (there are exceptions) you won't find anything in organized religion resembling the love, compassion and genius that said man exuded. The end.
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OakTree
Schmoak Tree

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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: OakTree]
#23884710 - 12/01/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sorry, tried to quote that first line but messed up. That was written by the OP.
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OakTree
Schmoak Tree

Registered: 10/31/16
Posts: 509
Loc: I'm right here!
Last seen: 7 months, 23 days
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: OakTree]
#23884715 - 12/01/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Timethyl, not OP. Yet another mess up.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: NebulaTomb] 1
#23884724 - 12/01/16 02:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting that a perfect god made an imperfect creature. To atone for his failure he sacrificed himself to himself.
Sounds like someone needs some serious psychotherapy.
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NebulaTomb
Stranger

Registered: 12/01/16
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freewill. the trinity. Grace and Mercy
-------------------- "Then Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as you would against a robber? While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours.” Luke 22:52-53
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: NebulaTomb] 1
#23884929 - 12/01/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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I used to interpret "for" as "because of". Dude is trying to spread some wisdom and get's nailed for it.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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the light switch is the most entertaining part of the thread - imo
where can we get one?
does it come in glow in the dark plastic?
what happens if you flick it back and forth rapidly?
could be dangerous
liquids and electricity don't play nicely together
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: laughingdog] 2
#23885006 - 12/01/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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That is sacrilegious!
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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switch costs $24 on etsy and I have to buy my own day glow paint thats a sacreligious ripoff
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale


Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Jesus died for our sins? [Re: OakTree]
#23885171 - 12/01/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OakTree said: I've yet to meet a Christian who didn't think it was literal.
This is what is a shame about Christianity.
To give an idea of where I stand, Atheists say I'm a Christian and Christians say I'm an Atheist (Richard Dawkins also says I'm an Atheist in The God Delusion, although I think he focuses as much on literal and surface-level issues as the Christians that OP refers to).
I think once upon a time a man lived and this man was somewhat a genius in the fact that he understood the simplicity of the fact that if everyone loved everyone and helped each other and didn't screw each other over the world would be a better place. Quite a bit like Buddha, Lao Tzu, Ghandi, and the numerous folks mentioned in the Baha'i tradition. The story of this man became diluted over the years, and when the Roman Empire eventually adopted this religion, it incorporated many of its former Pagan beliefs into the tenets of the religion for the purpose of making it familiar to the people and to make it easier to convert the masses (the Plebeians as they called them) and control them. After all, Rome's signature move was to conquer and control.
The combination of the dilution of the story and the information added by the Romans, combined with the exclusion of certain books which depicted this man as a human instead of a god (i.e. the apocryphal texts/gnostic gospels) led to the superstitious aspects of his story. **I will say, Quantum Physics has all but proven that his miracles are possible; their probability just happens to be very low. This is beside the point however**.
When the English language was developed, the name given to this man was Jesus, and as the religion based around this man progressed, it became less concerned with his teachings of love, compassion, truth, and the fact that if we all help one another out the world will be a better place, and became more concerned with the magic stories. After all, magic is kind of like a shiny red ball; it catches people's attention without them having to think too hard.
People get too caught up in what they call "faith", which basically means to believe things that don't make sense in order to gain brownie points from an old white guy with a beard sitting on a golden throne in the clouds who will smite you if you don't do what the preacher tells you. What these people don't understand is, Jesus' actual message is provable, therefore you don't need blind faith. He basically just said "if everyone is nice to each other, life will be easier and more enjoyable". He also said some pretty cool things that are very reminiscent of Taoism, Buddhism, and Quantum Physics (which came 2,000 years later. As I said, somewhat of a genius). I won't go into these because I'd need to go back and find specific references and what not, and I don't have time right now.
Anyway, my point is that I have found, through extensive research, that Christianity has to a large extent missed the point. As a quick example (only one, I promise), I have a book called "Catechism of the Catholic Church". Catechism basically means a summary of what a group of people believes, so it is a book on how to be a good Christian. It is 756 pages of rules on how to be a Christian. However, Jesus said "my burden is easy, my yolk is light". So Jesus says it's easy while the church makes it so difficult that nobody could do it (unless they pay the church enough money, eh?). So either Jesus is a liar (in which case the entire religion is invalidated), or the church has missed the point. When you think about it, it's pretty easy to be nice to people, so my bet is on option B).
Sorry for the long post; this subject interests me very much. I think the actual historical guy around which the religion started was probably a great and interesting guy. However, having been raised Catholic I can tell you that for the most part (there are exceptions) you won't find anything in organized religion resembling the love, compassion and genius that said man exuded. The end.
Very interesting. I've always thought about the stories in the bible as an allegory, and in that light, they are really neat stories.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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