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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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First monotub grow
    #23883543 - 12/01/16 02:33 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hi everyone

I started my first monotub grow as my new hobby and interest in Psylocybe cubensis.

I have 2 tubs, the one is a seperated and 2 thirds are penis envy and the other third is Texan, the second tub is only golden teachers. They were spawned from pearled barley to 50/50 verm and coir with some gypsum. I spawned the penis envy and texans with only half a quart jar each and the teachers with one quart in the one tub. I know this may sound too little. Anyway they colonised the bulk substrate for almost 3 weeks before i saw pins and initiated fruiting conditions by inserting polyfill and inhancing FAE. It has been 8 days since Fruiting conditions. Both the texans and the teachers had a very small flush like 6 mushrooms each.. then the upcomming pins aborted and is now being consumed by mycelium. The penis envy seemed to stop colonising after FAE and hasnt yet fully colonised or formed hyphal knots. My first mushrooms were nice size and potency.

I just want some advice as to why my tubs stalled and why it was such weak flushes. Also any advice to rejuvinate the mycelium as it seems to be turning grey ( not cobweb mold as I am a upcoming mycologist and can identify contams). Please any advice would be helpfull and just ask if I need to add additional information.

The temperatures has gone up since fruiting avg here is almost 28 degrees celcius now as it is summer. Im fanning regularly almost 6 times a day and misting dry walls.

Regards
Desperate first timer.





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OfflineDactylium
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion] * 2
    #23883570 - 12/01/16 03:08 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

They stalled because you only used one quart of spawn in what I assume to be a full size mono somewhere around 60qts. I guess the mycelium was reaching out for more nutrients then gave up and completed its life cycle, hence the few mushrooms you got.

You've also got way too much vermiculite. The guy's username is Damion5050 but the substrate in his tek is more like 80/20 coir and verm respectively.

Fanning is unnecessary in all circumstances. Mushrooms need to breathe just like we do, so constant fresh air exchange is needed. You provided this by putting holes in your tub.  Misting the walls of your tub is useless as well. The mycelium needs to drink water, not your tub. You shouldn't need to mist before the first flush anyway. A properly hydrated substrate in a dialed-in tub shouldn't dry out.

Make some more spawn dude! Also, how did you prepare your spawn? It wasn't spores to grains was it?


Edited by Dactylium (12/01/16 03:09 AM)


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OfflineTheStormsEye
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: Dactylium]
    #23883603 - 12/01/16 03:55 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

woah bro. u need to do a bit more homework.
great effort tho, never give up


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OfflineTheStormsEye
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: TheStormsEye]
    #23883608 - 12/01/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

shoot for a solid 1/2, 1/3 ratio at least for your next one. :thumbup::thumbup:


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23883623 - 12/01/16 04:18 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Okay guys thank you very much. So basically:
1. I need to use more spawn.
2. I need to use less verm.

I inoculated the grain with mycelium I cultured on PDA from isolations I made from dry mushrooms.

Can anyone please send me links maybe or just advise for how i can rescue this grow.

Would genetics be a problem?
Can I add nutrients in any way?


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: Dactylium]
    #23883707 - 12/01/16 05:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Dactylium

Thanks for the insight you seem experienced what would you recommend for getting another flush or 2? Or what would be the next best choice?

As i mentioned in another post I inoculated my grain jars with mycelium from petri dish and also other prepared jars later on. I prepared my grain by soaking 24h and then boiling for 20 - 40min i must say i had much faster and better colonisation with pearled barley as opposed to wheat berries. I found that the wheat verries also was more prone to contamination in jar or if spawned to bulk.

I added a piece of penis envy mycelium from one of my jars to a uncolonised piece of coco peat and it is flourishing so i dont understand why the already present mycelium would not utilize this nutrient reservoir.

Is the mycelium getting old?
What would you reccomend for spawn to substrate ratio. The teachers tub is 85 liters and the larger one is 165 liters.


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OfflineDactylium
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion] * 1
    #23884077 - 12/01/16 10:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Coir isn't really that nutritious. It's meant to serve as a water reservoir while your grains provide the nutes. Boiling isn't necessary after a 24 hour soak. Maybe look into some grain prep teks here.

Your primary issue here is your spawn to sub ratio and your sub. You'll want to use two quarts of vermiculite for each 650g brick of coir. As for the spawn ratio most people around here use anywhere from 1:1 to 1:4. Those are massive tubs you've got. 165 liters? My goodness. One quart of spawn in a tub of that size is madness.

Here's a spawn calculator. Just punch in your bulk substrate's contents, your tub's dimensions, and your desired spawn ratio.

And here's a link to the bucket tek. Please note that while his username has "5050" in it, he only uses two quarts of verm for his 650g coir brick

And because you'll need to prep so many jars for tubs of this size, you may benefit from using blenderless liquid inoculant . It's way more convenient than trying to drop a wedge in a bunch of jars.


Edited by Dactylium (12/01/16 10:10 AM)


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: Dactylium]
    #23886380 - 12/02/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Awesome thanks for the reply Dactylium.

I thought of maybe using bags instead of jars so I could have more spawn ready at a time. I'll definitely lower my verm content and increase spawn.

I dont want to just abandon my present grow. Can I get a few more fruits by dunking and maybe turning the cake over? Is the nutrition too little that is left?


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Offlinepacmanbreed
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23886519 - 12/02/16 03:06 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

thanks for posting your growlog. i am planning on monotub aswell on my first grow. i think ill go on 1:2 spawn ratio to substate on my 1st grow. to make sure for fruiting. and ill try to dial in the FC for proper substate evaporation aswell before inoculation.. will wet substate contaminate on 2 days dialing in and testing. i am planing to pasturize the substate after that.


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #23886557 - 12/02/16 04:15 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

It will probably contaminate but if you pasteurise afterwards and clean properly itll be fine. I believe you might aswell pasteurise, inoculate and then dial it in when you initiate fruiting.


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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23888885 - 12/02/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PsychedelicLion said:
It will probably contaminate but if you pasteurise afterwards and clean properly itll be fine. I believe you might aswell pasteurise, inoculate and then dial it in when you initiate fruiting.




Been reading on few teks here.
thanks for the advice brother. i think your right since bad spores germinate within 24 hours on wet sub and it will be bad on 2 day... i must pasturize and inoculate then dial the mono for fruiting after 100% colonization  of the bulk sub, to minimize contamination.

i really think opening and misting your monotub daily is bad and a plus on vector/contamination specially in the spawn run..
i think your ambient rh is low and based on your tub the substrate look dry and sub is <20% colonized.
if there is no condensation on the bin walls i think you must up your substrate moisture content.

you should remove polyfill and tape/close all the hole/intake, fix the moisture of sub, and let the mycellium fully colonized the sub (COLONIZATION = less FAE more moisture.)..
at 100% colonization dial the tub. i think this would fix your tub. mono=set and forget no more misting/faning.
they will fruit eventually if the nutrients is dipleted specially if 100% coloniztion is achieve despite your low nutrients sub.. UP YOUR MOISTURE/WATER Brother shrooms are 90% water.


thanks for sharing your grow PsychedelicLion i think ill go to this mono route and hoping to fix some problem along the way, just what are you encountering right now.


Edited by pacmanbreed (12/02/16 09:12 PM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #23889250 - 12/02/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

no offense but pacman is not correct.

Quote:

ill try to dial in the FC for proper substate evaporation aswell before inoculation



huh?

bad spores germinate within 24hours? huh?

opening and misting a tub is not a vector for contams.. dirty spawn is.

dont go from colonizing to fruiting.. back to colonizing and then back to fruiting.
once you fruit, you are fruiting. IMO.. i could be wrong tho.

mono tubs are 'set and forget' more or less.. once you got it down tight.
ive done a shit load of tubs in the last months and some need some misting..
others were too wet and needed the holes opened to dry it out a little.

your low yields are from either week spawn(either genetics/bacteria)
or your bulk prep was jacked(to wet/dry). how was your field capacity?
also what dactylium said.


Edited by mushboy (12/02/16 10:43 PM)


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: mushboy]
    #23889291 - 12/02/16 10:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Pacman

Yes the tubs aren't at 100% yet except the texans in the small compartment, well not 100% but pretty close. I think the photos are misleading especially the GT with the layer of verm on top. The penis envy in the larger compartment was say about 60%, I had to put the whole tub into fruiting cause the texans started forming mushrooms. Know this wasn't ideal.

Also something most will criticise but I wanted to test a theory. After my texans had a small flush the whole tub stalled so i thought maybe nutrients were depleted or moisture in substrate was too low so I inoculated some of the uncolonised areas in the penis envy tub with 3 small pieces of mycelium from a penis envy jar, I know this was a risk and what not but what I saw was that the newly inoculated mycelium flourished in the tub. With fanning and everything ( which i will never do again as monotubs are as you say very low maintanance) So I wonder can someone tell me what exactly is the reason why the initial mycelium would not colonise any further?

I agree with Mushboy and don't think I'll be going back into colonisation, I am going to add moisture to the substrate and just let it sit closed in the newly dialed tubs.

Oh and Mushboy my substrate was at field capacity and for the GT tub above it with more than a few drops comming out when squeezed.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23889300 - 12/02/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

if your sub was at capacity .. and the spawn was clean im guessing then its the fruiting conditions.

adding myc to a substrate is a new one to me.

also the tubs not colonizing 100% doesnt have anything to do with it.
some people fruit at spawning with great results.(stalling out would be different tho)

i personally wait for my tub to about 50-75ish and then fruit.


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: mushboy]
    #23889356 - 12/02/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I think it might have been the fact that although I had polyfill in I still fanned... I may have dried it out and had low RH. Thanks for everyones inputs. Im going to alter some stuff and let you know if I do get another flush or two.

I have a question, why dont we supplement our substrates with nutrients for bulk? It would make sense that you would have more vigorous growth and more flushes maybe even larger fruits.


Edited by PsychedelicLion (12/02/16 11:22 PM)


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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23889364 - 12/02/16 11:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

we do.

gypsum and coffee.

gypsum is great and is only a powder to toss in with grain water/bulk

coffee has been shown to be a contam vector(i think).. i have not worked with coffee as i hate coffee with a passion.


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: mushboy]
    #23889371 - 12/02/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't those just add micronutrients and the gypsum acts as a pH buffer.

I was thinking more along the lines of a carbon source to utilise. Okay but then this might be where poo based subs come in, or grain. I want to experiment with mixed subs coir/verm/poo.


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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23889380 - 12/02/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

gypsum is a ph buffer but it also has nitrates, i think, that myc love.

people go back and forth with 'supplements' talk. i prefer to focus on
my spawn. i can have super duper trump style make america great again substrate mix
but if my spawn is dirty its all for nothing.


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: mushboy]
    #23889398 - 12/02/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Haha nice way to put it. Yes well great spawn and a high spawn ratio makes sense because of all the available nutrients then because of the amount of spawn. I saw that guys using high spawn ratios had very tight spacing of their fruits.

Also the coffee will add nitrogen while the gypsum adds calcium and suphates.


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OfflinePsychedelicLion
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Re: First monotub grow [Re: PsychedelicLion]
    #23895760 - 12/05/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Okay so I had to move my tubs and they stood in the dark for 3 days with no real ventilation in the room, today when I moved them back they were way more colonised and the texans had started to form an insane poinsettia.  Will keep you updated it looks like my grow is saved. The back to colonisation idea was not that bad pacman.


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