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Offlinegotmagog
searching fortruth andlogic...

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 239
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Playing with Madness?!
    #2388241 - 02/29/04 05:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I tripped on Friday with some of my friends, and the whole weekend I have been thinking for many things, and one of them is a serious analysis of my use of psychedelic drugs.

I read some psychology articles and found out that though there are unfortunate cases of people with real brain damage, some kinds of mental disorders and psychoses are not so much real diseases rather than just alternate ways of constucting reality, views of life much different than those of the majority of people. Some of those deviations from the norm are making the person less well adapted and less successful in life. Other delusions remain more innocent, one has strange views about life, but still is able to cope well with life. Mathematicians like John Nash made good cariers, despite having some personal delusions.

Let's connect this with the use of psychedelic drugs and the concept that they may be enlightening. Some may abuse them, but there are many people who try to make hallucinogen use something benefcial in their lifes I consider myself such a person, and many of the users of this forum seem to be also so. And very often the benefit seems to be that one develops his own ideas about the world and he becomes a distinct personality, somehow different than others because of the unique experience that not all have experienced. This effect is enforced by the fact that wise users are also a tiny minority of the whole population, a minority that uses banned substances and is in the more extreme view a persecuted counterculture, whose experiences are difficult to explain to the "other" people. I myself have trouble speaking about my mushroom use to friends who themselves have not tripped.

So, in some sense, psychedelics really make people insane! People feel changed and better , but this also applies to people who delude themselves and are considered crazy. What is exaclty madness and what is sanity? For me, the criteria should be how one is able to cope with life and be a succesfull and happy person. But unfortunately, in a climate of intollerenace, the psychedelic user may be and is defined like a mad man. Societies have a history of labeling different people crazy, the inquisition and Galileo, the Soviet union and the hospitalizing of political dissidents are obvious examples.

And this is like a price for the wisdom of the plants and mushrooms, the intolerance of society and the possible label when one is different and "crazy". The price may be worth it, and one may always just keep a low profile. And this makes it more difficult for the hallucinogen user, tripping has obvious real psychological risks, having ones reality changed and having to make a new, better model is a difficult task that requires good judgement. Having good friends nearby to discuss such issues would help, but the usually negative attitude of normal people towards this makes an open discussion impossible. In a perfect world, i would be able to discuss my trips even with my parents, but now i have to keep it all to myself, and a few select friends. (good that there is the Internet and forums like this one, it really helps to get information and answers I search for)

So those are more reasons for one to be very careful with hallucinogens, they are really life changing and one should know for what he is in! But I have made my mind, i want to continue the exploration, I think that I will trip around 4 times per year and try to integrate this with my lifestyle.


Edited by gotmagog (02/29/04 08:03 AM)


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InvisibleFloydian
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Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 1,022
Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: gotmagog]
    #2388263 - 02/29/04 06:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Good ideas here .... paragraphs though man .... paragraphs!!

I went to this event at my school were a handful of people were giving talks about the spiritual use of psychedelics (Huston Smith was one of the more notable speakers) and this issue about not being able to openly share these types of experiences in our culture came up in the Q+A portion.

its a touchy subject and i really feel like its unhealthy to have such intense experiences without being able to discuss and digest them in some way. The internet helps but it can never substitute real life discussions. I've been able to be fairly open with my family and friends about my experiences but most seem to not want to hear about them anyway. All it seems to do is make them worry about me.

I agree, idealistically our society would be totally open and supportive of such ventures. Im reminded of the analogy that Alexander Shulgin made in the epilogue of TIHKAL.

He draws parallels between the Holy Writ of 350 years ago and the laws of present day.

THEN: The earth is the center of the universe, and anyone who says otherwise is a heretic and shall be imprisoned.

NOW:All drugs that can expand consiousness are without medical or social justification and anyone who uses them is a criminal and shall be imprisoned.

THEN: How dare you claim that the earth is not the center of the universe? Your looking glass, your moons around jupiter, and your navigational tables prove nothing. your heresy is an affront to the church, and to God who made the earth the center of the universe and gave us the sun as our clock.

NOW: How dare you claim that an understanding of God is to be found in a white powder? This talk of communication with the inner self, the finding of one's way into the hidden reaches of the unconscious, is New Age nonsense and simply an excuse to use dangerous drugs.

Just think, 400 years from now students will read in their history books about how simple minded and ignorant our laws are and laugh as they try to fathom why an entire society would try to shut out a way of thinking that held so many possibilities.


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


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Offlinedaba
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Registered: 12/30/02
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Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: gotmagog]
    #2388268 - 02/29/04 06:40 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Argh, paragraphs indeed. That's almost as bad as reading Charles Dickens.

Nice post Floydian, your final paragraph holds true for many things :smile:.


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Fold for The Shroomery!


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Offlinecastaway
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: Floydian]
    #2388309 - 02/29/04 07:18 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Floydian said: The internet helps but it can never substitute real life discussions.




I disagree.

Personally I find internet communication to be more intensive and of deeper content than face to face discussions which usualy suffer under societal expectations of relationships.

I can discuss subjects here that I couldn't discuss with my family, and I can interact with people whom I may normaly cross to the other side of the street to avoid.

Besides, being bi-sexual with a healthy libido and somewhat uninhibited, verbal concentration becomes clouded by bedroom fantasies.


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Offlinegotmagog
searching fortruth andlogic...

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 239
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: gotmagog]
    #2388344 - 02/29/04 08:24 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Ooops, I really forgot about paragraphs, i fixed it a bit now, hope it reads better.

I myself sometimes make the comparison of psychedelic use now and hereticism before. Another bad influence of the intollerance today is the inability to have an open discussion about such experiences. One may feel guilty because of the attitudes of other people who condemn him, one may want to defy conformism and embrace mushrooms more, just because one wants to be different or wants the "forbidden fruit" just because it is forbidden.

In any case, the objective truth (or at least the least biased )becomes more elusive as such issues distort it. I think the society will get the most accurate understanding of the use of psychedelics(regardless of whether they are a coming revollution of mind, or just a more modest influence on our lives) only if fear and intolerance are no factor at all!

In this sense, the Interet is very useful, because one may talk and discuss freely, without the pressure of society to conform to the views of the majority. I have also had deep discussions on the Net which I value as a great experience.


Edited by gotmagog (02/29/04 08:45 AM)


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InvisibleFloydian
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Registered: 05/14/00
Posts: 1,022
Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: castaway]
    #2389367 - 02/29/04 10:10 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

The internet can have advantages over real life communication. Like being able to discuss controversial things with annonimity or being able to talk to strangers without having to "break the ice" so to speak. But a virtual discussion cant even begin to match the intimacy of sharing an experience with a loved one in person.

So much is lost in communicating through this medium. I dont wanna sound condecending but I urge you take more risks socially in real life if you seriously feel that "internet communication to be more intensive and of deeper content than face to face discussions".

Sounds a bit like you havent had enough truely rewarding relationships with real people. Dunno tho, just speculating.


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Playing with Madness?! [Re: gotmagog]
    #2389618 - 02/29/04 11:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

you mentioned about trying to explain you trip experiences with others. i've learned not even to attempt. it is impossible to explain an experience like that, really. that is the magic between people who have ventured in to other consciousnesses'(sp?)...for us no words are nessesary.

your part of a long history of some of the greatest minds ever. i believe real philosophers, artists, and other great minds were arpart of this. they may be myths, but im not sure. Mr.Mushrooms would know, or if anyone does, then please respond to this.

Eleusinian mysteries:

"Happy is he, who having seen these rites, goes below the hollow earth; for he knows the end of life and he knows its god-sent beginning."
Pindar

"It was the common belief in Athens that whoever had been taught the Mysteries would, when he died, be deemed worthy of divine glory. Hence all were eager for initiation."
Scholiast on Aristophanes (The Frogs)

"And the synthema (pass-word) of the Eleusinian mysteries is as follows: 'I fasted; I drank the kykeon; I took out of the chest; having done my task, I put again into the basket, and from the basket again into the chest."
Clement of Alexandria : Protreptikos


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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