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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Free Will & Experience
    #23876509 - 11/28/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I had a very interesting and frightening experience about a year ago that I can't seem to get out of my head. I was at work, talking with a few friends when my consciousness suddenly shifted in a very odd way. This is kinda hard to explain...

I was watching some of my friends talking and I suddenly stopped perceiving them as conscious beings in the sense that I normally would. It was like watching a ventriloquist dummy talking only without the guy with the hand up its ass. It was like observing a bunch of meat puppets as they mindlessly flapped their gums at each other.

I immediately felt disturbed by the experience which only lasted a few moments. However, what was most disturbing was not that I perceived these people as lacking a real identity or consciousness, it was more the fact that my own experience did not take on the same characteristics as my perception of the others. So i still perceived myself as acting freely while the others in the room were simply meat puppets pulled by the strings of cause and effect in the universe.

So this got me thinking about the whole free will debate and about the possibility that the popular contention that free will exists is simply an illusion inherent in consciousness itself. To what degree do you think it is possible that consciousness causes the illusion of free will?

If anyone has had a similar experience I would love to hear it. As a side not: I have had some similarly strange spontaneous experiences throughout my life, some of them have had a religious flavour even though I am an atheist, like seeing clouds part and the sun shine through and having a sudden feeling of being confronted by something enormous. Personally I interpret these experiences as being the product of some wacky neurochemistry in my brain which thankfully have not led me to madness like some people I know.

What do you guys think of the idea that what I experienced (the meat puppets) was something akin to a an atheistic revelation, in the sense that the believers revelation is the revelation of Gods almighty will in the universe, whereas the atheistic revelation is of humanities lack of free will and biological boundedness?


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: blingbling]
    #23876554 - 11/28/16 09:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

well who knows what 'really' happened ...
but
that description matches what's called a dissociative state
which can be had with DXM for example

folks debate free will with great emotion
I don't bother...
the buddhist perspective
sort of pulls the rug out from under the notion
by suggesting we might want to question whether the self is actually what we assume it is
there is a lot of literature on the web on the subject
a search for
anattaa
and
anicca
will provide some deep analysis of the matter, some of which you might find interesting
for example
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Buddhism+anccia&t=h_&ia=web


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: laughingdog]
    #23876602 - 11/28/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah it was definitely a dissociation. But it didn't contain anatta (noself), which was the most disturbing aspect. I think that if I did perceive the emptiness of my-self at that time it would not have been as disturbing.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: blingbling]
    #23876616 - 11/28/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

yeah weird reminds me of the  a sci-fi movie "They Live"

every time he put on sunglasses some folks appear really creepy:


"Nada, a down-on-his-luck construction worker, discovers a pair of special sunglasses. Wearing them, he is able to see the world as it really is: people being bombarded by media and government with messages like "Stay Asleep", "No Imagination", "Submit to Authority". Even scarier is that he is able to see that some usually normal-looking people are in fact ugly aliens in charge of the massive campaign to keep humans subdued. Written by Melissa Portell "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: blingbling]
    #23876765 - 11/28/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Implicit cognition refers to unconscious influences such as knowledge, perception, or memory, that influence a person's behavior, even though they themselves have no conscious awareness whatsoever of those influences.




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLRG
Supernaut
Male
Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 871
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: sudly]
    #23877175 - 11/29/16 03:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

We have Free Will. But our Spirits inhabit this body. Our egos separate us from the Spirit very well. Many on Earth think with their "ego mind" and not their inner self. They believe their ego mind can grasp the secrets of the Universe and all that hoopla. It can't. Some people meditate and put a lot of effort into getting through and those who do, probably, don't realize the key to victory is surrender. Call it God, call it the Spirit... whatever you want but you must surrender. Most people do not because they fear the unknown.

"Everything you need to know will come from the place where you know nothing." - Anonymous


--------------------
"I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” - Gandalf The Grey.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle

"I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagle's wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm HAMMERED DRUNK!" - Cal Naughton Jr. AKA The Magic Man. Abracadabra homes!

"Each tear is a drop of poison released." - Anonymous

"Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say if they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to Love."


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
Posts: 2,987
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: laughingdog]
    #23879653 - 11/29/16 08:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
yeah weird reminds me of the  a sci-fi movie "They Live"

every time he put on sunglasses some folks appear really creepy:


"Nada, a down-on-his-luck construction worker, discovers a pair of special sunglasses. Wearing them, he is able to see the world as it really is: people being bombarded by media and government with messages like "Stay Asleep", "No Imagination", "Submit to Authority". Even scarier is that he is able to see that some usually normal-looking people are in fact ugly aliens in charge of the massive campaign to keep humans subdued. Written by Melissa Portell "

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/




Yeah i've seen that movie. It has the longest fight scene ever. Its so long that its funny, then boring and ridiculous and then funny again. Such a bizarre film.


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: LRG]
    #23879681 - 11/29/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LRG said:
We have Free Will. But our Spirits inhabit this body. Our egos separate us from the Spirit very well. Many on Earth think with their "ego mind" and not their inner self. They believe their ego mind can grasp the secrets of the Universe and all that hoopla. It can't. Some people meditate and put a lot of effort into getting through and those who do, probably, don't realize the key to victory is surrender. Call it God, call it the Spirit... whatever you want but you must surrender. Most people do not because they fear the unknown.

"Everything you need to know will come from the place where you know nothing." - Anonymous




Most people don't realise the ego mind is the inner self.
The ego mind can grasp the secrets of the universe and it has throughout the history of mankind as expressed in our understanding of mathematics, chemistry, gravity etc. 

It's true that God is giving up on reality.
Quote:

"If you stopped telling people it's all sorted out after they're dead, they might try sorting it all out while they're alive." Terry Pratchett




--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Free Will & Experience [Re: blingbling]
    #23879952 - 11/29/16 09:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blingbling said:
....

Yeah i've seen that movie. It has the longest fight scene ever. Its so long that its funny, then boring and ridiculous and then funny again. Such a bizarre film.




yeah definitely bizarre, and it's dated 1988. Many fight scenes are absurd, especially with sound off. And now some movies have gone even further into absurdity.

For example there are many car chases, where you really can't tell what's going on. But because of the previous suspense, loud tense staccato music, and very rapid cutting, it works for some viewers. But turn off the sound or re-watch it, and the cheap gimmick becomes more obvious.


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