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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman] 2
#23885186 - 12/01/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning, for instance, doesn't guarantee equal results.
are universities forced to graduate an equal number or percentage of different races?
is the NFL being reverse racist because teams must interview minorities when head coaching and management positions become available (the Rooney Rule)?
this reverse racism victimhood cloak doesn't look good on you or anyone else. it looks like it was made in china at a trump cloak factory. shed your cloak and come into the light, sir. the sky is sunny and the air is warm here.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: relic]
#23885207 - 12/01/16 05:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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"making the playing field equal"....who determines that? How long (timewise) until its equal?
Im interested see empirical evidence how Affirmative Action or other policies have propelled a certain class/race through the years..... it has been going on for awhile now.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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pineninja
Dream Weaver
Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Your right, inequality is intrinsic and will never be beat imo but that doesn't mean being aware of and trying to do something about it is wrong.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
Loc: the right coast
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affirmative action has been going on for a while, you're right. but that 'a while' equals only about a third of the time that the majority here spent subjugating and oppressing black people.
despite what my posts might indicate, i'm not a huge advocate for affirmative action. having said that we all know that in the 184 years of formal US history and the 341 years between the first slaves arriving until the initiation of AA, a tremendous amount of often hideous things were done to hold back and keep down black people as a whole. there are the exceptional who have risen above despite all of that history, but the vast majority were literally subjugated. in light of that a little more leveling is probably the right thing to do.
all in all, it's for people much smarter than me to legislate.
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lines
Stranger
Registered: 08/06/08
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Loc: USA
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: relic]
#23885822 - 12/01/16 09:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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American schools educate race-consciousness into children by talking about white privilege all the time. So the schools promote antiwhite racism and divide people into people of color and whites and incite people of color against the whites. Then in rebellion against this you have white nationalists who are "reactionaries". In other words they are the reaction to the antiwhite racism of the schools.
Being somewhere in the middle between those two extremes seems to make the most sense to me. In between the far left and the far right seems to make the most sense.
It's actually impossible to understand society by thinking of things purely in terms of race. There is also a social class issue. For instance right now there is a lot of tension between rich educated white liberal elites and working class whites. The white liberal elites are actually trying to replace working class whites by importing a new working class. Then the rich privileged white liberal uses the idea of "white privilege" to silence the working class white when the working class white complains about being dispossessed through his job being sent overseas or his job being given to an immigrant due to a diversity quota.
The rich white liberal is far more of an enemy to the working class white than a random non-White person. So if the working class white were to think of things in terms of "white is good, non-white is bad" he would be using a worldview that does not serve his interests because he would be blind to the fact his biggest social enemy is the white liberal who wants to totally dispossess the white working class in the name of global humanitarianism.
The white liberal is the biggest enemy of the white working class. That being said I am not optimistic about the republicans and what they claim they are going to do for workers. I am willing to wait and see but I am not optimistic about it.
I think the biggest antidote to racism is civic nationalism. An American identity and American pride that transcends race. A unified American identity based around shared patriotism. Not the mindless pro-war patriotism though. People all have their stereotypes about racial and ethnic groups and everyone has their preferences but at the end of the day we are all Americans and should respect equal rights.
Edited by lines (12/01/16 09:04 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: lines]
#23886115 - 12/01/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Some of the most insidious and dangerous things hide in plain site....unabated and overlooked.
Yes, blacks were enslaved; codified into law with the blessing of the government(with Jim Crow and such); now government is the solution? Perpetuating the same under a guise;one could argue?
The path to Hell is paved with good intentions
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: relic]
#23887060 - 12/02/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
relic said: assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning, for instance, doesn't guarantee equal results.
are universities forced to graduate an equal number or percentage of different races?
is the NFL being reverse racist because teams must interview minorities when head coaching and management positions become available (the Rooney Rule)?
this reverse racism victimhood cloak doesn't look good on you or anyone else. it looks like it was made in china at a trump cloak factory. shed your cloak and come into the light, sir. the sky is sunny and the air is warm here.
"assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning"
That "assuring" discriminates against people based on race that are more qualified for the opportunity, that's called racism. Didn't those people have equal opportunity before the screening process? Did anyone stop those students from preparing for their SAT tests? NO.
Guess what happens when a company if forced to hire incompetent minorities in the workforce? Every minority is viewed as a handout case and gets no respect despite the fact that they are very competent.
Guess what happens when an university accepts incompetent minorities into their schools? It turns into a big mess with both the professors and other students knowing that they don't belong in that environment, it becomes counterproductive for everyone, especially the minority students.
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qman
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: relic]
#23887073 - 12/02/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
relic said: affirmative action has been going on for a while, you're right. but that 'a while' equals only about a third of the time that the majority here spent subjugating and oppressing black people.
despite what my posts might indicate, i'm not a huge advocate for affirmative action. having said that we all know that in the 184 years of formal US history and the 341 years between the first slaves arriving until the initiation of AA, a tremendous amount of often hideous things were done to hold back and keep down black people as a whole. there are the exceptional who have risen above despite all of that history, but the vast majority were literally subjugated. in light of that a little more leveling is probably the right thing to do.
all in all, it's for people much smarter than me to legislate.
Yeah, lets leave it up to those brilliant racist liberals to "legislate" equality, even if it discriminates against people that had NOTHING to do with things that occurred hundreds of years ago.
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finalexplosion
Stranger
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman]
#23887079 - 12/02/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
"assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning"
That "assuring" discriminates against people based on race that are more qualified for the opportunity, that's called racism. Didn't those people have equal opportunity before the screening process? Did anyone stop those students from preparing for their SAT tests? NO.
Guess what happens when a company if forced to hire incompetent minorities in the workforce? Every minority is viewed as a handout case and gets no respect despite the fact that they are very competent.
Guess what happens when an university accepts incompetent minorities into their schools? It turns into a big mess with both the professors and other students knowing that they don't belong in that environment, it becomes counterproductive for everyone, especially the minority students.
Very true but with affirmative action you got minorities and women in schools or jobs they had no qualifications nor experience in. Its just the handout generation to fill a quota which in fact makes people look really incompetent.
-------------------- The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.
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finalexplosion
Stranger
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman]
#23887091 - 12/02/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
relic said: affirmative action has been going on for a while, you're right. but that 'a while' equals only about a third of the time that the majority here spent subjugating and oppressing black people.
despite what my posts might indicate, i'm not a huge advocate for affirmative action. having said that we all know that in the 184 years of formal US history and the 341 years between the first slaves arriving until the initiation of AA, a tremendous amount of often hideous things were done to hold back and keep down black people as a whole. there are the exceptional who have risen above despite all of that history, but the vast majority were literally subjugated. in light of that a little more leveling is probably the right thing to do.
all in all, it's for people much smarter than me to legislate.
Yeah, lets leave it up to those brilliant racist liberals to "legislate" equality, even if it discriminates against people that had NOTHING to do with things that occurred hundreds of years ago.
Wasn't it liberals that were pro slavery at one point?
Quote:
Fact: The Republican Party was founded primarily to oppose slavery, and Republicans eventually abolished slavery. The Democratic Party fought them and tried to maintain and expand slavery. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress. http://russp.us/racism.htm
-------------------- The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.
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finalexplosion
Stranger
Registered: 11/04/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Some of the most insidious and dangerous things hide in plain site....unabated and overlooked.
Yes, blacks were enslaved; codified into law with the blessing of the government(with Jim Crow and such); now government is the solution? Perpetuating the same under a guise;one could argue?
The path to Hell is paved with good intentions
ie Welfare state (single mother victimhood)
-------------------- The light of wisdom is driving away the darkness. Look at the ground. Now you can see your own shadow. If you are scared by the shadow that follows you, just remember, wherever shadows fall, light is always nearby.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman] 1
#23887572 - 12/02/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning"
That "assuring" discriminates against people based on race that are more qualified for the opportunity, that's called racism. Didn't those people have equal opportunity before the screening process? Did anyone stop those students from preparing for their SAT tests? NO.
You assume that minority kids raised in a slum had equal opportunity to prepare for college. Very poor assumption.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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relic
of a bygone era
Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 5,623
Loc: the right coast
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman] 1
#23888165 - 12/02/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
"assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning"
That "assuring" discriminates against people based on race that are more qualified for the opportunity, that's called racism.
wait, i thought it was liberals that were always seeing and claiming racism in everything? that glib comment aside, i would argue that a necessary component of real racism in this context is power. when those in power (in the majority) are humbled by a leveled field, that's not racism, imo. it's giving someone a hand up, not a hand out, so that they can help themselves and either sink or swim. there is no guarantee of results, thus nothing wrong with that. i'm not threatened by someone being given a fair opportunity to beat me; it makes me try that much harder. i guess you're talking about the weak that just give up when the man allows someone who doesn't look like them a similar opportunity.
Quote:
qman said:
Didn't those people have equal opportunity before the screening process? Did anyone stop those students from preparing for their SAT tests? NO.
no, those people don't always have the same quality of education and opportunity; i know you know this but you're just being disingenuous and i doubt you'll ever admit it here. again, they've been systematically marginalized and subjugated for 100's of years. you think 50 years of AA, during most of which large portions of the US have still treated them like shit while doing their level best to hold them back, is enough to erase centuries of oppression? let's be honest for just a minute, at least.
Quote:
qman said: Guess what happens when a company if forced to hire incompetent minorities in the workforce? Every minority is viewed as a handout case and gets no respect despite the fact that they are very competent.
only by those who are inherently prejudiced. you just gave a great example of the prejudice that pervades certain parts of this country, well done. now learn something from that, will you? stop treating everyone of a race the same because of your experience with just a couple of said race. grow. evolve. incompetent employees should be retrained, if possible, or fired. i do it all the time at my business no matter what color their skin.
Quote:
qman said: Guess what happens when an university accepts incompetent minorities into their schools? It turns into a big mess with both the professors and other students knowing that they don't belong in that environment, it becomes counterproductive for everyone, especially the minority students.
let me help you. strike all that junk after the first sentence and write, "they fail out".
Quote:
qman said:
Yeah, lets leave it up to those brilliant racist liberals to "legislate" equality, even if it discriminates against people that had NOTHING to do with things that occurred hundreds of years ago.
all this deserves is a lolz.
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qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: "assuring that an equal number or percentage of different races gets opportunity for higher learning"
That "assuring" discriminates against people based on race that are more qualified for the opportunity, that's called racism. Didn't those people have equal opportunity before the screening process? Did anyone stop those students from preparing for their SAT tests? NO.
You assume that minority kids raised in a slum had equal opportunity to prepare for college. Very poor assumption.
Nothing is equal in life, does that mean only some people should get preferential treatment based on that fact?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman]
#23889359 - 12/02/16 11:24 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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The issue here is equal opportunity, which you agreed with above. Everyone deserves a fair chance, and if they're given a fair chance and don't succeed, THEN that's too bad.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,245
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Regardless of race there should be a full investigation if someone shoots and kills someone with 3 shots after a road rage incident.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Crumist
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman]
#23889571 - 12/03/16 02:22 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:Actually, when it comes to getting preferential treatment based on race, which both AA and quotas do, it's seeking equal RESULTS. Guess what happens when the quotas aren't met? The iron hand of the government comes in and makes SURE there's equal RESULTS.
What equal results? And I don't know what kind of "iron hand" Affirmative Action possesses, but its funny you don't feel the same way about that "iron hand" beating the shit out of protesters.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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qman
Stranger
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The issue here is equal opportunity, which you agreed with above. Everyone deserves a fair chance, and if they're given a fair chance and don't succeed, THEN that's too bad.
"Everyone deserves a fair chance"
Not according to AA, one's person "fair chance" comes at the expense of another person's racial discrimination.
Why should someone who is more qualified get rejected so that people like yourself think they're handing out "fair chances" based on racial discrimination?
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qman
Stranger
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: Crumist]
#23889963 - 12/03/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said:
Quote:
qman said:Actually, when it comes to getting preferential treatment based on race, which both AA and quotas do, it's seeking equal RESULTS. Guess what happens when the quotas aren't met? The iron hand of the government comes in and makes SURE there's equal RESULTS.
What equal results? And I don't know what kind of "iron hand" Affirmative Action possesses, but its funny you don't feel the same way about that "iron hand" beating the shit out of protesters.
"What equal results?"
Equal percentages based on race for employment relative to the general population.
"feel the same way about that 'iron hand' beating the shit out of protesters"
What "protesters"? Where?
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire
Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,752
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Re: Why so racist? [Re: qman]
#23889991 - 12/03/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: There was one black guy in my High School
Its all coming together.
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