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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23882156 - 11/30/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



"Something" cannot exist except as a concept in relation to nothing.

Since something can exist everything has to be nothing.


Clever word twists don't necessarily have any substance nor truth.



words are a direct connection with truth. anyone saying otherwise makes themself a liar.


indeed, something exists, and it is Nothing.

Quote:

MollyLucyMaryJane said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Infinity is contained




This cannot happen. It is one of the key concepts of infinity.
Its not a number or something that can be contained and that is why it is so remarkable.

Infinity is unlimited/unbounded/immeasurable
The only thing that can ever be greater than infinity is another form of infinity.

So basically Infinity can only ever be contained by another form of infinity.



wrong. infinity as a set is finite, it only contains infinity, therefore it is 1.


infinity is a process. we are all working on it together. it arises from the Spark whirling around Nothing.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
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Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23882446 - 11/30/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:

Clever word twists don't necessarily have any substance nor truth.




words are a direct connection with truth. anyone saying otherwise makes themself a liar.





tut tut

words vs words = truth
or
words vs words = silly or "themself" or anything ...

tut tut

words vs words = words vs words = words vs words = words vs words =


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: laughingdog]
    #23882765 - 11/30/16 07:24 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Some pretty great points Laughingdog. While I dont completely agree with your point that nobody thinks about things while doing them,
I do agree that to ask about an experience or even think about one subjectively, you must be separate and "step outside the box" of what your thinking about if you want to be unbiased.
I also agree that language fools people very often thinking that it means far more than it does.

It is very confusing to me. Whenever I think to myself "why isnt there nothing?" "Why is what I am perceiving right now even here?"
I often think it is only confusing because in our life everything has a start and an end, everything is finite.

The only thing I can think of that would make sense to me is infinite possibility/Infinite change.
I really do believe that to be the answer to everything, The fact that infinity exists.


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23882776 - 11/30/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
"infinity as a set"  "it only contains"  "it arises"





These are things that are not possible with infinity. It always has and it always will be. It is completely unlimited in infinite ways. Nothing can every be greater than it, save for other infinities, things can only ever be within it.
Infinity is a very difficult thing to talk about as so much in our lives we use ideas like "contains,begins,ends,measures" These are things that just stop making sense with infinity.


Also words can contradict themselves in many ways. Here is an example:
The following statement is true. The previous statement is false.


Edited by MollyLucyMaryJane (11/30/16 07:43 PM)


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883161 - 11/30/16 09:54 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

It is very confusing to me. Whenever I think to myself "why isnt there nothing?" "Why is what I am perceiving right now even here?"



indeed, Nothing is a very confusing topic, but very important to understand.

Nothing is the fabric of the universe. it is the 'space' in an atom, the void which Charge is wrapped around. infinity is a property of this coupling. infinity does not describe a property of the universe but rather the process of being a part of it.


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23883180 - 11/30/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I dont mean the nothing contained within the universe. I mean nothing as No matter period. Absolute, complete, infinite nothingness.
Thats what confuses me. Why isnt it that way? why does this shit exist.


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883202 - 11/30/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MollyLucyMaryJane said:
I dont mean the nothing contained within the universe. I mean nothing as No matter period. Absolute, complete, infinite nothingness.
Thats what confuses me. Why isnt it that way? why does this shit exist.



matter does not exist, if you think otherwise, please explain using clear terms.


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23883373 - 11/30/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Obviously I cant prove matter actually exists lol thats beside the point. The fact that im here typing this right now proves there is more than absolute purgatory.

Why dosent that absolute purgatory exist instead of this? To me it would make a lot more sense for there to be complete nothingness.

Are you trying to suggest that  this life/reality is what nothing looks like?

These questions are clearly unanswerable but definitely fun to debate.


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883410 - 12/01/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MollyLucyMaryJane said:
Why dosent that absolute purgatory exist instead of this? To me it would make a lot more sense for there to be complete nothingness.



this is the nature of reality, a grand unification of disparate ideas, where Nothing is all there is.


Quote:

Are you trying to suggest that  this life/reality is what nothing looks like?



once again, there is one reality, thats it, and furthermore, there is one life, we all live it, forever if you want, its infinitely variable.

yes, we are the Nothing that is the universe, it is animated by Charge or Spark, that is all there is, and since Spark is just a shadow of the energy that created it, it doesnt exist either, we simply see the effect like the wind blowing leaves, so technically, all that is real is Nothing.


Quote:

These questions are clearly unanswerable but definitely fun to debate.



all questions have clear answers.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
Universally Loathed and Reviled
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883419 - 12/01/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

why can't both exist?

an interesting debate on the nature of nothing:


--------------------


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23883445 - 12/01/16 12:36 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the 'nothing' they attempt to discuss is not the same as the Nothing that forms the universe. the closest they come to realizing the Nothing is the concept of dark energy, which is still orders of magnitude removed from reality.

Nothing exists, as in, it is real.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23883475 - 12/01/16 01:14 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

skip to about 38 min


--------------------


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23883486 - 12/01/16 01:27 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
all questions have clear answers.




While I think you have interesting ideas in the end our ideas are all conjecture.
In the case of questions like this I dont think its just a simple/clear answer. I think there are too many new questions that would show up in trying to answer this to have just 1 answer.

There are so many variables that proof to any idea on the existence of reality would be impossible to find.

In the end we all know nothing, we have a massive lack of information and we cant even come close to understanding these things.


Sometimes I think Infinity may be a cop out like religion but to me its a far more tangible cop out. Something that is a simple, sweet answer.
Infinite possibility and change means that eventually every possible thing is going to happen. even infinite nothingness.

I want to try to understand this reality without just saying everything is infinite but I think that may be the answer and its frustrating.


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883490 - 12/01/16 01:34 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

how is that frustrating?


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Invisiblepineninja
Dream Weaver
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Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South Flag
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: nothing exists]
    #23883494 - 12/01/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Your frustration may be borne from the fact your trying to figure out something you neither can nor need to.
An acceptance of your own insignificance may sound like a cop out but also may eventually be a place of solace.
The tree doesn't question its existence, why would it.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883496 - 12/01/16 01:41 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Because it makes me feel like a cop out. Like im just giving up like a religious person saying oh its just god that did everything, Instead of working harder to try to find my own logical explanation.

Almost like my hobby is dead because I finished it. It seems like I thought of the best answer im ever going to.


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InvisibleMollyLucyMaryJane

Registered: 09/10/11
Posts: 1,302
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: pineninja]
    #23883497 - 12/01/16 01:42 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Your frustration may be borne from the fact your trying to figure out something you neither can nor need to.
An acceptance of your own insignificance may sound like a cop out but also may eventually be a place of solace.
The tree doesn't question its existence, why would it.




That is basically the opposite of what I feel and believe in.


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23883500 - 12/01/16 01:43 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
skip to about 38 min



if you are referring to string theory, then no, not even close to Nothing in concept and really just a bunch of nonsense, go ahead, study up, most theoretical science is utter bullshit.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South Flag
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883501 - 12/01/16 01:44 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

That's fine each to their own. I was very much of the same opinion at one time....and may end up back there:shrug:


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Offlinenothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Wdf is this anyways [Re: MollyLucyMaryJane]
    #23883529 - 12/01/16 02:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MollyLucyMaryJane said:
Because it makes me feel like a cop out. Like im just giving up like a religious person saying oh its just god that did everything, Instead of working harder to try to find my own logical explanation.

Almost like my hobby is dead because I finished it. It seems like I thought of the best answer im ever going to.



not sure where you get the idea you are done already, you are right in the thick of it, seriously, look around, what is the dominate force on this planet... conciousness, the more you got the more you get, at some point you must move on, or you become stuck.

move on does not mean killing yourself until you get it right.

it means you use your life energy to grow your conciousness flower, you work it out for yourself, everyone does. this is what you want, enhanced engagement with the forces of reality.

there is no god as you understand it, not here, with us, sorry.


Mind created the universe. Mind is, without beginning, every now, forever

Mind is Nothing right now, and also, infinite-future Spark energy.

we are part of a large process, it will play out, eventually, no matter what, there is no free will strictly speaking, you are required by law to participate in infinity, because while it has endless variation, it is a set of one, which means it is resolved, we are one...

just not right now...


buddistic practices are nice, work in all forms will free you, if you are mindful and do a good job, this is the best way, even walking will do it.

drugs are for special, carefully planned explorations. i know that sounds prude at this board, but really, psychedelics wont set you free, they are just a tool.


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