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OfflineMountainman505
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Spawning mushies from whole rice
    #23869332 - 11/26/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I would like to start off by saying that this is a working project and nothing I am posting is written in stone and I am completely open to all questions, doubts and all other comments.
1/2 cup whole wild rice mix
1/2 cup whole black rice
1/2 cup well or spring water
1/4 tsp brewers yeast
1/4 tsp powdered light malt extract 
1  pint jar
1/2 sp gypsum
I am taking a half cup of a store bought wild rice mix and a half cup of wild black rice, both are left whole. Then adding brewers yeast and powdered light malt extract and the other jar just light malt extract and water. Then I will let set until rice expand by half it volume now, about 24 to 48 hours. I will open lid briefly to allow co2 to be released since I am using yeast. I will update in 24 hours I am open for a discussion on this anytime.


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Edited by Mountainman505 (11/27/16 06:51 AM)


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869371 - 11/26/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

1) Yeast and LME are completely unnecessary and could create more concern for bacterial contaminations. Rice alone has more than enough nutrition for your mushrooms.
2) Is that second jar filled with water? Looks far to wet for growing. If you're soaking them in the jars it's not as efficient as just heating them up on the stove.
Just soaking them tends to leave them with hard unhydrated centers.

You can do whole rice cakes no problem but your technique is very questionable to me.

I do plain rice cakes with no other ingredients than water and rice, and they produce exceedingly well.
I simply bring rice to a boil and let it set a few times until the rice is perfectly hydrated, not mushy but not hard.
The load it into jars and pressure cook at 15psi for an hour, or steam sterilize for 8 hours.


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Offlineoakley
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505] * 1
    #23869396 - 11/26/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
hen adding brewers yeast and powdered light malt extract and the other jar just light malt extract and water.

Then I will let set until rice expand by half it volume now, about 24 to 48 hours. I will open lid briefly to allow co2 to be released since I am using yeast.




Why are you leaving it to ferment?


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23869418 - 11/26/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You can weigh your rice to monitor its moisture content, I use 180ml (180g) water to 100g rice. The sugars are going to stick that already highly sticky grain together like glue -and a contam risk as mentioned. If you purposely leave the rice a little dry you can add lots of LC and not have to shake at all. I wanted to try adding sugars for sclerotia grows.

I found popcorn to a be a great addition to rice jars, it is so hard it is like little ball bearings and can break up the rice. Many believe rice only needs a steaming or can get away with shorter times than other grains. With popcorn you need more time. So you could do rice in bulk and then G2G a popcorn jar into them and they can break up the rice.


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: oakley]
    #23869424 - 11/26/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

oakley said:
Why are you leaving it to ferment?



I am guessing he is using spent brewers yeast which will not ferment -though he seems to think it will.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: blackout]
    #23869443 - 11/26/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
I found popcorn to a be a great addition to rice jars, it is so hard it is like little ball bearings and can break up the rice.




Awesome. :lol:


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23869453 - 11/26/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I find the lme and yeast help by fist giving that extra growth boost I have had growth start in jars as little as two days, better that anything I tried yet. I also like to let the yeast grow an produce a little alcohol, it acts as a antibacterial agent but allowing the mushroom mycelium to grow unharmed. I will drain about half of what water is left and let then pc'ed @15 psi for 1 hour. One thing I left out is I will add 1/2 tsp gypsum after soaking to act as a anti clupping agent. The substrate/casing I use has the hydrated lime.
Thank you for you input bro if these don't work at least I have another starting point.
I did popcorn in another experiment that is going, I used all the same ingredients and tek. Here's a pic.
This jar is about 8 days old I spoke it two days ago. Maybe this jar is a fluke. But I did two popcorn jars doing the pecooking then pm'ing and I wasn't happy with the moisture content, this method is the only way I can get things to work.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


Edited by Mountainman505 (11/26/16 03:59 PM)


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869460 - 11/26/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The brewers yeast I am using is not spent and the lme is a growth booster. Keep it coming guys I love criticism, it's the only way to grow and learn.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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Offlinemrmazdarx9
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869521 - 11/26/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Subbed wanna see what happens good luck op


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869526 - 11/26/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It all just seems to complicate a simple process and for little or no reward.
Have you ever grown side-by-side jars with just rice and water, and then other jars with LME/Lime/Yeast?
The difference will not likely even be measurable. I use to do this a lot, testing grows with and without gypsum and other ingredients, using monocultures and actually measuring mycelium growth speed and final dried weights side-by-side with large data groups and the results I constantly concluded with were "no significant difference".
Even teks like PF tek are far more complicated than they need to be, and in the next month or so I plan on doing some writing about this.

We tend to think of Fungi as we would think of plants, "more fertilizer = bigger healtheir plants!" but they do not work anything like a plant.

However, if you just enjoy trying to perfect a mixture and try new things I fully support that, not trying to rain on your show at all.
I really enjoy the preparation process myself.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23869545 - 11/26/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's cool Timethyl I do have a control jar, I am using nutes that the mycelium can start to store immediately, I understand thathat mushrooms get nutes while the mycelium is growing and sitting in the jar and colonizing they only have the nutes that they have stored while colonizing. That's the line of thought for my madness.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869576 - 11/26/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
I will open lid briefly to allow co2 to be released since I am using yeast.




dont do this, the filter on your lids allows gases to escape. you'll only contaminate your jars.

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:





speaking of filtered lids, wtf is going on here?


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: spacechildo]
    #23869591 - 11/26/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I am using tyvek and and rubber stopper. It's my poor man's synthetic fiber filter lids. This has been my standard for tree grows now and have no problems. I punch 4 holeso in a regular widwmouth lid then one in the middle just larger enough for the stopper to be pushed into, then I cut two layers of tyvek and put then on top of the metal lid then screw the ring on and push the stopper in. I have tone play with it a little to get the wrinkles out some times.


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The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869598 - 11/26/16 04:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I only burp the soaking rice before pcing and that's if I see a bunch of bubbles or have to leave it for more that 24 hours.


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: spacechildo]
    #23869641 - 11/26/16 04:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
I will open lid briefly to allow co2 to be released since I am using yeast.




dont do this, the filter on your lids allows gases to escape. you'll only contaminate your jars.

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:





speaking of filtered lids, wtf is going on here?




Why did you put a rubber plug in the center?


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: TheMustardTiger]
    #23869652 - 11/26/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

They were free and less messy then rtv


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869656 - 11/26/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
They were free and less messy then rtv



You inoculate through those things? Are they self healing?


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: TheMustardTiger]
    #23869839 - 11/26/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes I do inoculate through them and yes they are self healing, they are for vials. They hold up in the pc fine.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23869850 - 11/26/16 05:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I guess technically they are called self-healing injection ports


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: blackout]
    #23871242 - 11/27/16 07:19 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
You can weigh your rice to monitor its moisture content, I use 180ml (180g) water to 100g rice. The sugars are going to stick that already highly sticky grain together like glue -and a contam risk as mentioned. If you purposely leave the rice a little dry you can add lots of LC and not have to shake at all. I wanted to try adding sugars for sclerotia grows.

I found popcorn to a be a great addition to rice jars, it is so hard it is like little ball bearings and can break up the rice. Many believe rice only needs a steaming or can get away with shorter times than other grains. With popcorn you need more time. So you could do rice in bulk and then G2G a popcorn jar into them and they can break up the rice.



I have plans on trying the g2g, just never done it before and don't have anything for a flow hood rigged up.
The popcorn idea you have about the popcorn mixed with the rice to help breaking up, that is exactly what happens, great minds think alike.
I thought the same idea about adding sugars to your substrate to spawn scerlotia, that worked for me, I added lme to my jar that has tampanensis scerlotia growing and made a lc from corn syrup and water and inoculated the rice jar. This jar started coloniziang on Nov 2.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23871668 - 11/27/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Here are the two jars after soaking for 20 hours they had quite a bit of co2 build up in them so I burped themy. I will am not sure if I should drain what liquid is left, I am think yes, any suggestions?


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23871692 - 11/27/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Have you checked if the grains are fully hydrated by squishing one?
I would never leave liquid in the bottom like that, draining it is a good idea.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23871707 - 11/27/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Have you checked if the grains are fully hydrated by squishing one?
I would never leave liquid in the bottom like that, draining it is a good idea.



Thank you, I would think it would cook to a cake the water is full of starches.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23871729 - 11/27/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
The brewers yeast I am using is not spent and the lme is a growth booster.



The term "brewers yeast" is usually describing inactive yeast that people use as a dietary supplement. This is why I thought you were adding it for nutritional reasons and that it would not brew.

I recently soaked grains with active yeast and sugar for similar reasons to you, for anti bacterial purposes and for it to become the dominant "contaminant". My goal was to get the other contams to develop during extended soaking and then kill them with a simple steaming. More info here https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23809538


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23871747 - 11/27/16 11:26 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mountainman505 said:
Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Have you checked if the grains are fully hydrated by squishing one?
I would never leave liquid in the bottom like that, draining it is a good idea.



Thank you, I would think it would cook to a cake the water is full of starches.



You will likely have overly hydrated clumped grains at the bottom. I usually cook my rice first and then fluff it up and put it into jars. If leaving it like that I would at least swirl the jars after they have been heating for a while, i.e. tip them and rotate so that water gets into some of the upper grains. You risk having a sodden puck at the bottom which will never colonise.

If I am understanding correctly it would seem you are using 1 cup of rice (1/2cup of each type) and only 1/2cup of water. I think I use 3 times that much water, not certain though.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: blackout]
    #23871799 - 11/27/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I am thinking of tring to cook the rice first in the jar with a solid lid in boiling water. I live at an elevation of 7500ft above sea  level, so this is my mountainman rice cooker rig. It will give me all the pressure I need to cook whole grain rice. He'll it take 10 minutes for a pot of water to even start to boil. Most grains and lentils have to be cooked this way up here. By using the jar I can keep an eye on the rice, since I have never preped this variety of rice up here before. So......


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Keep it simple, stupid.


Edited by Mountainman505 (11/27/16 12:02 PM)


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23871835 - 11/27/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I do shake my my jars after pc'ing to eliminate condensation building up in the jar and the grains keep ahold of more moisture, at least that's how it seems to work for me.
Once the family goes back home, later today I will cook up the rice and we will see what happens. If I open the jars now and check the grains and they and as hydrated as I like I will add some more to hydrate them. I may need to rethink this for a minute. I will try one jar and see how it goes.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23872224 - 11/27/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I opened the jar with the lme and brewers yeast and it was pressurized more than a bottle of beer and had the aroma of alcohol. The rice was almost fully hydrated it will hydrate more as I am shaking the jar till it's cooled. This is my regular process from here in on out so the rice should work out by its self with out the corn. I am only tring this because I forgot to get popcorn while I was in town and it's too far for a trip for just popcorn. Bad Mountainman.


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The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23874532 - 11/28/16 08:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Here's how my wild rice mix jar looked like this morning after pc'ing and shaking while it cooled. Only when I first pulled out the jar were the grains stuck to each other but thanks the the addition of gypsum after soaking allowed all the grains two break up individually.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23874859 - 11/28/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That jar looks fine, turned out good.

I'd love to see the contrast of white mycelium creeping across the black rice.

:justcantwait:


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Tmethyl]
    #23875827 - 11/28/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I know, it should be interesting. Here's a narly one of my Colorado jar I took just now.


Edited by Mountainman505 (11/29/16 10:54 AM)


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23878120 - 11/29/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I noc'ed up the newly made rice jar with a liquid culture of Psylocybe Tampanensis, STONES!!!. Sorry got excited this same culture and syringe was used to noc up my first stone jar. The black rice should make a great background and make it easy to see the mycelium starting. Fingers crossed.  :sporedrop:  :mushdance:  :mushdance:


Edited by Mountainman505 (11/30/16 08:53 PM)


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23886902 - 12/02/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What's wrong with these two mushies I have growin'? Is it the habitat or something else. I haven't had fruits with this wide of stems before and havent had this happen? I am open to all comments, I don't have a dial for my rh but my temps dont exceed 75f and don't drop below 68f. I mist 3 to 4 times a day with a 15 20 second fan with mist.


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Keep it simple, stupid.


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23887196 - 12/02/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

is it the camera or is that sub bacterial? it looks yellow.

surface looks too wet also


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: mushboy]
    #23887208 - 12/02/16 10:56 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I did mist right before the shot. I has heavywith it. The yellow, is whatever the sub is made of. If I where to take the substrate and put it in water it would be stained yellow. It's bought from an online vendor. I have used it for a year now.


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The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


Edited by Mountainman505 (12/02/16 11:00 AM)


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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23887250 - 12/02/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

whats it made from?

make your own dude!
cvg cost about the same amount per month as mouth wash.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: mushboy]
    #23887398 - 12/02/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Coco coir, verm, gypsum, hydrated lime, and something acidI can to need ph buffers and phone stabilizers. I use it because it works and I am improving one technique at a time.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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OfflineMountainman505
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Registered: 11/03/16
Posts: 33
Loc: Somewhere "high" in the m...
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23888052 - 12/02/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Here are three of those guys picked and ready to dry.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


Edited by Mountainman505 (12/02/16 03:46 PM)


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OfflineMountainman505
The Social Hermit
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Registered: 11/03/16
Posts: 33
Loc: Somewhere "high" in the m...
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Spawning mushies from whole rice [Re: Mountainman505]
    #23896503 - 12/05/16 11:11 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Here is a wild rice mix jar I made up before I started this thread. It is an agar to rice transfer. It's alacabezi.


--------------------
The only stupid question, is the one not asked.
Keep it simple, stupid.


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