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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Dealing with Verticillium(?) ?
#23867954 - 11/26/16 06:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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The past two grows, this has been creeping into my grows. the first time, i expected it to be there as i knew there was some sort of bacteria infection in the jars, but spawned them anyway for experience. I normally toss.
the result was a first flush that had brown areas on the mushrooms, with poorly formed areas and other places that looked like they were rotting..
my last two were clean, however, they are starting to turn to rot as in the first picture now that the second flushes are coming through. I can see areas on top of the substrate where the mycelium has died and completely turned black/blue and is mushy.
What's going on here? I wanna say bacteria, but it looks like verticillium
How do i prevent this in my grow room in the future, whatever it is? I believe it may be due to in part by me having dumped old substrate in a garbage bag or having removed the contaminated mushrooms out in the grow space as is. I really thought this was bacteria to begin with, and am still not sure, but this is curious.
I have had trich in this room before.. i don't get it as often as i altered my sterile procedure - my grain was too wet and was getting bacteria (fixed) and i started sterilizing for 120 minutes instead of 90
Edited by 404 (11/26/16 07:10 AM)
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Nobler Hino
a dojo and a forge?!


Registered: 08/29/15
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Deep Ellum
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23868006 - 11/26/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Whoa that sucks
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   "The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me.” – Maria Sabina
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Nobler Hino]
#23868047 - 11/26/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's verticillium for sure. It's a white mold that looks extremely similar to mycelium, and can often grow alongside mycelium without the growers being aware. Do you have any pics of your Petris?
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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Mad Season]
#23868510 - 11/26/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nope, don't have the equipment or window to make any right now.
It's only on some of them, and in spotty places. i've been carving out the bad places and disposing of it... So how do i deal with this? how did this likely come about - i read it was from dirt or something and is common. where is it comming from in the room? how do make this not happen again in the future
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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23868600 - 11/26/16 11:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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did some more reading... increase fae, decrease temps... It looks like this may be in part due to misting. My temps are already low 70's especially since it's getting cooler. i cleaned out my misting bottle with iso.
i stopped misting the tubs as much and fanning them more. i'm really hoping that's going to help!
still need to know if i'm on the right track, and how to deal with it altogether/in the future/prevention as spores are now likely airborne in the room.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23868734 - 11/26/16 11:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm about to work so tonight I'll provide you with more info, but just like with any other contaminations, if your bulk sub was done right, you have to look at your spawn. Whether it was in there right from the beginning, or bacteria was hiding in your spawn, you absolutely need to find the underlying issue. Those things you said will definitely help it from attacking during fruiting, but clean spawn will make sure the mycelium is strong enough to fight it off 100% of the time ya know?
EDIT: I hope this link will help you too, it has vert in it: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22020260
Edited by Mad Season (11/26/16 11:48 AM)
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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Mad Season]
#23869017 - 11/26/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, it's possible the syringes are contaminated but i doubt it? The source is well known and has a good rep. Very possibly the bucket tek. Am out and about and will edit this post accordingly
Also, appreciate the help MS.
so the tub i did that i knew was going to be contaminated - I'm almost certain the first flush i got from that was immediately contaminated. this is starting in slower on these two i have, second flushwise.
i feel like the water bottle could have been contaminated from when i tried to make the first tub flush, and now it's been allowed to spread to the current ones. also, i have misted quite a lot, and the substrate has been very very wet. perhaps i've been over doing it - the vert likes more humidity as i understand
Edited by 404 (11/26/16 01:33 PM)
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Turkey
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23869715 - 11/26/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Damn man, contamination that's eating your fruits, that really sucks.
Even if they are from a reputable vendor, making sure the culture is clean by first inoculating agar is a good choice -assuming you inoculated with MS.
Hope you'll get rid of it.
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Tira]
#23869760 - 11/26/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would play with agar if it were possible, it just isn't at the moment and i'm not going to be able to explain why on here for personal reasons. Believe me, i would be doing agar first and foremost, and it would be really nice to have some clones of the runs i've done in the past going...
my SAB work is as sterile as i can possibly make it with MS. I don't know how the grain would be getting contams other than the actual syringes being contaminated to begin with - and it has happened before... so maybe.
as a heads up - the infections haven't gotten worse or spread since i stopped misting and making things as wet. what's left is continuing on the second flush as normal. i think there might just be plenty of water in there to begin with and maybe i didn't need to inundate it to trigger the second one...
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Turkey
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23870044 - 11/26/16 06:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said:
my SAB work is as sterile as i can possibly make it with MS. I don't know how the grain would be getting contams other than the actual syringes being contaminated to begin with - and it has happened before... so maybe.
Do you soak your grains when preparing them or just simmer them? Maybe it's endospores surviving the PC run; but if you're PCing over 60 minutes I doubt it's that.
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Tira]
#23871418 - 11/27/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well until we get agar going, it's going to be a crapshoot every time. You can only go so far with syringes IME. I'm glad you're stopping the spread of it tho. Shit spreads like wildfire in favorable conditions.
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404
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Mad Season]
#23871487 - 11/27/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tira said:
Quote:
404 said:
my SAB work is as sterile as i can possibly make it with MS. I don't know how the grain would be getting contams other than the actual syringes being contaminated to begin with - and it has happened before... so maybe.
Do you soak your grains when preparing them or just simmer them? Maybe it's endospores surviving the PC run; but if you're PCing over 60 minutes I doubt it's that.
no soak. no need. simmer happens in an hour and they are done.
Quote:
Mad Season said: Well until we get agar going, it's going to be a crapshoot every time. You can only go so far with syringes IME. I'm glad you're stopping the spread of it tho. Shit spreads like wildfire in favorable conditions.
that is the way to stop it right? i just want to clarify. it seemed to come in after i misted extremely heavily, and i hadn't really cleaned the water bottle at all, but i ran iso through it
and increasing FAE helps right?
is it possible that this will come in during fruiting again if the spores are now in the grow room or is it one of those things where the spores are typically everywhere anyway, and it is mostly because they come in during inoculation?? is there a way to clean the room, or make it suitable again, or will this likely go away as a result. how long are vert spores viable for?
i checked on some of my other cultures going... one of the syringes had to have had a contamination in it, the jar is growing some sort of really fast growing and light and grey, airy mycelium.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23871513 - 11/27/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah you're reducing the spread so that's good. Yes it is basically all over in the air. One of those things you can find in pretty much every inch of soil.
I have no idea if it came in during inoculation or not. Could also have had a bacterial contamination that weakened the mycelium enough for verticillium to germinate on it during fruiting, or you could have a had a little bit of both depending on the substrate. But by the sounds of it, grey airy mycelium doesn't sound good at all.. snap a pic?
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Tira



Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 1,202
Loc: Turkey
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: 404]
#23874163 - 11/28/16 04:07 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said:
no soak. no need. simmer happens in an hour and they are done.
Some say soaking helps germinate endospores so they can get killed in the PC run, maybe give it a try?
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Dealing with Verticillium(?) ? [Re: Tira] 1
#23874642 - 11/28/16 09:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's debatable. Endospores are a natural part of their cycle. Bacteria will always have endospores around as a safety net. Some even argue that soaking, especially after 12 hours increases endospore populations exponentially.
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