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InvisibleModestMouse
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The rat park experiment is a crock of shit
    #23866398 - 11/25/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.brucekalexander.com/articles-speeches/rat-park/148-addiction-the-view-from-rat-park

Yall all know of this and if you dont read up..
Basically they say addiction is a result of social isolation and not simply a certain result of the discovery of intense highs.

This experiment is dead wrong when it comes to humans though. Why?
Them rats dont have to work a 9-5 to eat.
Them rats dont have to deal with traffic, or jury duty, or cops, or rude people at walmart, or credit card debt, or high maintenance family, or holidays....
Them rats are some sumbitches and i dare say they aint know how easy they fuckin got it over there in rat park eatin their morphine or fuckin their hoes.

Us humans got some modern shit to deal with.
You gave us a free and limitless source of morphine id wager the majority of us would hit that lever every goddamn day.

I dont know where I was going with this. That experiment pisses me off though


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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse] * 1
    #23866405 - 11/25/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Just snort kratom


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Sheekle]
    #23866413 - 11/25/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dont worry sheeks i will stick to the regimen.
Im just sick of them fuckin rats and them scientists that think those spoiled hoe rats are indicative of human behavior regarding addiction


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OfflineKThunderland
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Sheekle] * 1
    #23866417 - 11/25/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I second everything the op is saying and i dont use any drugs, but right now, with the holidays and the evil bitch of a wife, rent and etc etc etc et fucking cetera ad nauseam, id pull that lever till i could raise my fucking hand, and love it.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: KThunderland]
    #23866432 - 11/25/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im gonna kick them rats to the fuckin moon
They can rat-PARK their goddamn pseudoscience in a dumpster


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OfflineKThunderland
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23866519 - 11/25/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I hate opiates but if there was an unexist lever most people would pull that shit at some point...to be rat ...must be nice totally jelous.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: KThunderland]
    #23866585 - 11/25/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Not the experiments fault you don't know how to live a happy life :shrug:


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23866588 - 11/25/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Never said it was.
Said the experiment is a crock of shit


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse] * 1
    #23866645 - 11/25/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The experiment suggests that fulfilled and happy creatures don't get lost in addiction.

You say the experiment is bullshit because of modern troubles. Suggesting you haven't adjusted to modern troubles in a way that makes  you a happy and fulfilled creature.

Other humans do adjust properly to this world. Hence my first comment.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr] * 3
    #23866657 - 11/25/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

We should make a new one called the sheekle box only instead of heroin in a tube it is a bathroom stall where every time a dick comes out of the hole he is rewarded with a blast in the face.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23866663 - 11/25/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
The experiment suggests that fulfilled and happy creatures don't get lost in addiction.

You say the experiment is bullshit because of modern troubles. Suggesting you haven't adjusted to modern troubles in a way that makes  you a happy and fulfilled creature.

Other humans do adjust properly to this world. Hence my first comment.



Are you saying I was not happy when I got involved with dope?
I was happy... Happy as hell, had a lot going for me.
Most other humans substitute morphine with alcohol or cigarettes or pot or gambling or power-play etc.

We are not the bouncy rats of rat park. Its a shitty comparison. The experiment is flawed


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23866667 - 11/25/16 05:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmmm, didn't see that coming :beardstroke:

Complicated stuff I guess


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23866688 - 11/25/16 05:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I just wish there was a better understanding of addiction


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Offlinewrestler_az
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23866708 - 11/25/16 05:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldn't quite call it a crock of shit... certainly there's more to addiction and the human condition than can be represented by this experiment, but social isolation, or even just lack of meaningful relationships, can play a pretty large role for a lot people, even if you are the exception.


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  Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM) 


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Offlinekakashi68
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23866787 - 11/25/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
The experiment suggests that fulfilled and happy creatures don't get lost in addiction.

You say the experiment is bullshit because of modern troubles. Suggesting you haven't adjusted to modern troubles in a way that makes  you a happy and fulfilled creature.

Other humans do adjust properly to this world. Hence my first comment.



Are you saying I was not happy when I got involved with dope?
I was happy... Happy as hell, had a lot going for me.
Most other humans substitute morphine with alcohol or cigarettes or pot or gambling or power-play etc.

We are not the bouncy rats of rat park. Its a shitty comparison. The experiment is flawed




Yea i doubt you were "happy". Happy people dont do heroin. They just dont. You can lie to yourself all you want. But I bet there is something in your life that heroin fills the hole. And im not talking about angst here.


--------------------
You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven.
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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Sheekle]
    #23866889 - 11/25/16 06:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sheekle said:
Just snort kratom



Thats a complete waste. Anybody who doesnt mainline their kratom or ATLEAST plug it is a total artard.

I agree with you though modest. Life sucks without drugs. I wasnt meant to live like this. Animals are different than people in this way.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (11/25/16 06:16 PM)


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23866959 - 11/25/16 06:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I dreamt one time that i was pretty much the test subject in this experiment. I woke up one morning and dropped acid. I started seeing rainbows and unicorns and gnomes and HOLY SHIT THIS IS NOT WHAT A TRIP IS LIKE I'M DREAMING!!!

BAM!!!

I've been locked up in a padded cell with nothing but a valve that when turned released more of a fentanyl type vapor into my cell, i layed back down and basked in the opiated heaven. Then i fell asleep and went into some other dream that i forgot about.

If you envy these rats i suggest looking to lucid dreaming and becoming one because it was fucking awesome.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23867052 - 11/25/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LuSiD enthusiast said:
I dreamt one time that i was pretty much the test subject in this experiment. I woke up one morning and dropped acid. I started seeing rainbows and unicorns and gnomes and HOLY SHIT THIS IS NOT WHAT A TRIP IS LIKE I'M DREAMING!!!

BAM!!!

I've been locked up in a padded cell with nothing but a valve that when turned released more of a fentanyl type vapor into my cell, i layed back down and basked in the opiated heaven. Then i fell asleep and went into some other dream that i forgot about.

If you envy these rats i suggest looking to lucid dreaming and becoming one because it was fucking awesome.



I have tried but i cant quit weed for long enough to do it.

Ive almost become lucid twice and i have become fully lucid once but i fell back into the dream.

2/3 of these times i was at a relatives house and was unable to smoke.

Ive tried laying completely still for so long resisting itches and rls and nothing.

Each time i became lucid i counted my fingers in my dream and i didnt have the right amount. Im trying to get back into counting my fingers all the time acctually. I hope it works.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23867071 - 11/25/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I did the finger counting with limited success too.

I find that drinking lots of water before bed, and additional water everytime you get up to pee in the night, makes me remember more dreams.

Also, anybody interested in the dream world needs to read a carl jung book or 10.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23867145 - 11/25/16 07:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

my proof against this study is whip its. whip its people.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Mescalean]
    #23867165 - 11/25/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
my proof against this study is whip its. whip its people.



What about them. They are moreish af yes but what is your point?

Im intruiged because i just got a shipment in after only having one box left for a while. I told myself i could have 3 and i just kept going. I was only supposed to do them when i trip.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (11/25/16 07:47 PM)


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OfflineSinSemilla
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Mescalean]
    #23867168 - 11/25/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's simple rats don't have to deal with being judge by other rats... we humans think we're being judge when we only judge ourselves in essence we don't think we're good enough , or we could be better.  This is the driving force behind addiction


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OfflineSinSemilla
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: SinSemilla]
    #23867173 - 11/25/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The rats don't think there's anything wrong with them .    We humans do


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: SinSemilla]
    #23867175 - 11/25/16 07:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I did a scientiific ecsperiemtn and most heterosexual rats will suck another rats cock for a minimal amount of enticement.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #23867177 - 11/25/16 07:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
my proof against this study is whip its. whip its people.



What about them. They are moreish af yes but what is your point?

Im intruiged because i just got a shipment in after only having one box left for a while. I told myself i could have 3 and i just kept going. I was only supposed to do them when i trip.




my point is banana man, that if this study were true they would have no signifigance, but i will avoid socializing if someone gave me a few 50 packs for the day. they are too good when you have them. nor do people seek them out of isolation


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23867178 - 11/25/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I did a scientiific ecsperiemtn and most heterosexual rats will suck another rats cock for a minimal amount of enticement.




and as a man of science did you do your job and record it all on video?


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OfflineKThunderland
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Mescalean]
    #23867412 - 11/25/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Its funny, i never knew what people meant by lucid dreaming until later in life, i assumed the control i had in my dreams was typical, i think that any dream that i didnt have control over no matter how otherwise pleasant wpuld be terrifying, however i dont remember most of my dreams and most that i do are mundane, i have wondered if maybe my aspergers contributes in anyway, or if im so frightened by the idea of not having control that i dont remember, but Good luck with the lucid dreaming though.


--------------------
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Offlinekakashi68
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: KThunderland]
    #23867432 - 11/25/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

KThunderland said:
Its funny, i never knew what people meant by lucid dreaming until later in life, i assumed the control i had in my dreams was typical, i think that any dream that i didnt have control over no matter how otherwise pleasant wpuld be terrifying, however i dont remember most of my dreams and most that i do are mundane, i have wondered if maybe my aspergers contributes in anyway, or if im so frightened by the idea of not having control that i dont remember, but Good luck with the lucid dreaming though.




yea thats strange... I think they both have there benefits. Like I wouldnt want to control my dreams ALL the time because sometimes my brain will just show me the most bizzare random wierd stuff that I could never think of.


--------------------
You know, just sometimes in between the first cigarette with coffee in the morning to that 400th glass of cornershop piss at 3am--you do sometimes look at yourself and think--this is fantastic. I'm in heaven.
-Bernard Black



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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23867444 - 11/25/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
Im gonna kick them rats to the fuckin moon
They can rat-PARK their goddamn pseudoscience in a dumpster




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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23867449 - 11/25/16 10:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder if rats in New York do more heroin than rats native to the forest.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23867455 - 11/25/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

My gfs dadhave me an ativan yu


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23867464 - 11/25/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You see people who end up in their own self imposed skinner boxes as a result of their desire to keep the high going.


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NotSheekle said
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Offlinekoods
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23867468 - 11/25/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
My gfs dadhave me an ativan yu




Did you just press the lever?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: koods]
    #23867470 - 11/25/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Fucj u koods gey off my coc


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OfflineKThunderland
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: kakashi68]
    #23867471 - 11/25/16 10:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kakashi68 said:
Quote:

KThunderland said:
Its funny, i never knew what people meant by lucid dreaming until later in life, i assumed the control i had in my dreams was typical, i think that any dream that i didnt have control over no matter how otherwise pleasant wpuld be terrifying, however i dont remember most of my dreams and most that i do are mundane, i have wondered if maybe my aspergers contributes in anyway, or if im so frightened by the idea of not having control that i dont remember, but Good luck with the lucid dreaming though.




yea thats strange... I think they both have there benefits. Like I wouldnt want to control my dreams ALL the time because sometimes my brain will just show me the most bizzare random wierd stuff that I could never think of.



I do feel a bit like i have missed out in the typical dream experience, it wasnt until i started experimenting with lsd and later mushrooms that i realized that it wasnt really normal, also strangley enough i have quite a bit of control on my trips (at moderate doses with mushrooms, pretty high doses with mesc, no control at all with dmt lol thats the time when i lose all sense of time and really dream) i prwobaly sound pretty strange right now, i wish i was eloquent enough a writer to explain it lol


--------------------
Check bio for trade list. Always open to trade anything of mine (that i can )for BTC.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: ModestMouse]
    #23867511 - 11/25/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
Fucj u koods gey off my coc



Im down


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: The rat park experiment is a crock of shit [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #23867790 - 11/26/16 02:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
I did the finger counting with limited success too.

I find that drinking lots of water before bed, and additional water everytime you get up to pee in the night, makes me remember more dreams.

Also, anybody interested in the dream world needs to read a carl jung book or 10.



This is a common method for lucid dreaming when you get up like that.

A really good way (the best ime) is to set an alarm about 5 hours after you initally lay down to sleep. The idea is you enter yoir dreamstate (REM) around 5 hours into the sleep cycle, simply wake yourself up, do something minor (just enough so you know you're awake, no looking around the room won't work you may end up just dreaming about looking around which is very common for me anymore, just be active enough you remember what you did in the middle of the night) then lay back down to sleep and you should slip straight into a dream.


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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