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OfflineYaupon88
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Registered: 11/25/16
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Cow patty delight? * 1
    #23865896 - 11/25/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hi, I would appreciate the community's help to make a positive ID on these. Thanks in advance!

Habitat:
On a ranch about an hour outside of Houston, Tx. Found growing out of cow patties in the woods and in full sun in pastures. It rained several inches about 4-5 days ago. Temps are mild 50-75 degrees F.

Gills:
Range from tan/light brown to dark brown

Stems.
Range quite a bit from very thin on the smallest caps to thicker (about pencil thickness).

Cap:
Color: White or light colored with brown or yellowish centers. Sometimes a faint bluish undertone is detectable, like a bruise. Sizes range from dime to silver dollar, or larger. Flat or conical dome shape.

Bruising:
Pale blue or green. Develops over time into a fairly pronounced blue bruise.

Other information:
smells earthy.

I have a strong hunch of what these are, but would appreciate confirmation!


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Yaupon88]
    #23865908 - 11/25/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sure looks like cubes to me. not a TI though


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InvisibleRiverDweller1
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Yaupon88]
    #23865910 - 11/25/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Psilocybe cubensis


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OfflineYaupon88
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: RiverDweller1]
    #23866108 - 11/25/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Update: Spore print is dark purple.
Thanks for the assistance! Looks like Thanksgiving weekend just got a lot trippier


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Yaupon88] * 3
    #23866402 - 11/25/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Photos 1 & 2 are Copelandia

Photos 3 & 4 are Psilocybe cubensis.

All are active, but the Copelandia are roughly twice as potent as the P. cubensis. :cheers:


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OfflineYaupon88
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #23866816 - 11/25/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

@midnightcity

Interesting... I am a newbie i so thought they were all the same variety (namely cubensis). Any tips for distinguishing the two types from each other? Especially now that I realize the harvest is commingled!


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Yaupon88]
    #23866924 - 11/25/16 06:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

btw, feel extremely lucky.

Some of us have been looking for years and come up empty. You found two active species in one go. Congrats :congrats:


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #23867389 - 11/25/16 09:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Photos 1 & 2 are Copelandia

Photos 3 & 4 are Psilocybe cubensis.

All are active, but the Copelandia are roughly twice as potent as the P. cubensis. :cheers:




First shrooms look like Panaolous tropolicas to me. A rare find!

Bottom ones are definitely wild cubes well done.


--------------------
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OfflineTheDuder
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23867496 - 11/25/16 10:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Those are some nice looking mushrooms, Hope to find some of those some day.

Good job dude. :thumbup:


--------------------

|-------------------[Ps. Azurescens]------------------------------------------[Ps. Semilanceata]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Allenii]------------------------|


|--------------[Ps. Ovoideocystidiata]------------------------------------------[Ps. Stuntzii]--------------------------------------------[Ps. Baeocystis]----------------------|


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InvisibleMidnightCity
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23868041 - 11/26/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Photos 1 & 2 are Copelandia

Photos 3 & 4 are Psilocybe cubensis.

All are active, but the Copelandia are roughly twice as potent as the P. cubensis. :cheers:




First shrooms look like Panaolous tropolicas to me. A rare find!

Bottom ones are definitely wild cubes well done.




Considering Copelandia species are visually indistinguishable from each other and need microscopy to delineate between species, just for the sake of conversation I'm curious how you came to that conclusion?


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #23868562 - 11/26/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The pan cyans ive seen are not those colors.

They are usually pure white or have a light brown color.

From picture comparsion, it looks of Pan Tropicalis.


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: MidnightCity]
    #23870518 - 11/26/16 09:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
The pan cyans ive seen are not those colors.

They are usually pure white or have a light brown color.

From picture comparison, it looks of Pan Tropicalis.



100% agreed.
Stems also tend to be skinnier on cyans, and caps not so wide.

Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

MidnightCity said:
Photos 1 & 2 are Copelandia

Photos 3 & 4 are Psilocybe cubensis.

All are active, but the Copelandia are roughly twice as potent as the P. cubensis. :cheers:




First shrooms look like Panaolous tropolicas to me. A rare find!

Bottom ones are definitely wild cubes well done.




Considering Copelandia species are visually indistinguishable from each other and need microscopy to delineate between species, just for the sake of conversation I'm curious how you came to that conclusion?




Not trying to argue but i can definitely distinguish pan antillarum from pan cyanescens from pan cinctulus, while hunting.


--------------------
MDMA is over rated


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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23870642 - 11/26/16 09:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The only one of those 3 that you mentioned that is considered Copelandia is Panaeolus cyanescens though. And you can't tell it's Panaeolus cyanescens by sight alone, just that it is Copelandia.


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: doctorghosty]
    #23870693 - 11/26/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

doctorghosty said:
The only one of those 3 that you mentioned that is considered Copelandia is Panaeolus cyanescens though. And you can't tell it's Panaeolus cyanescens by sight alone, just that it is Copelandia.



Thought copelandia was just another term for panaeolus

i can 100% positively differentiate between pan cyans, antillarum, and cinctulus.
When you come across all three in the same field almost weekly, you know the difference.
Pan cyans vs antillarum- antillarum cap is a little different in shape, more sharp. tend to have thicker stems, are larger in size, mostly completely white sometimes has a little brownish tint on the cap, and the stem sometimes has black spots on them from the spores dropping. Also the cap is wider and thicker. They also tend to have 1 or 2 big ones on a patty, sometimes in small groups  Cyanescens cap is a little more rounded and soft looking. tend to have skinnier stems, sometimes have a little brown spot on top and the cap also tends to be more brown in color, the cap is thinner and not as wide, and they grow in larger groups, sometimes only have 2-3 on each patty. They also don't grow nearly as large.

Cinctulus clearly looks different.

I hope i gave a good visualization, but iv'e become pretty inclined on the differences between the two merely through visual tell-tales.


ANTILLARUM SPECIMENS






CYANESCEN SPECIMENS




(not my photos)


--------------------
MDMA is over rated


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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Dmt_psilocybin] * 1
    #23870705 - 11/26/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't doubt you can tell the difference betweeen antillarum and copes however there is no way you can look at species of Copelandia and know for certain they are Panaeolus cyanescens, microscopy is needed. Copelandia isn't just another name for Panaeolus and cinctulus isn't in Copelandia.


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OfflineDmt_psilocybin
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: doctorghosty]
    #23870718 - 11/26/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

doctorghosty said:
I don't doubt you can tell the difference betweeen antillarum and copes however there is no way you can look at species of Copelandia and know for certain they are Panaeolus cyanescens, microscopy is needed. Copelandia isn't just another name for Panaeolus and cinctulus isn't in Copelandia.



Okay, specifically define copelandia for me i'm curious i know it is not a scientific genus.
Besides differentiating between the two, if i see even one stray cyanescen i will be suspicious that it is it while a couple feet away, pick it, and within 5 seconds tell you if it is a cyanescen. get home, spore print it, and it will be purple black.
I guarantee if you put it under a microscope i would be correct


--------------------
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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23870951 - 11/27/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i thought Copelania and Panelous were synomous.


They are different genuses?


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23870954 - 11/27/16 12:57 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i found the problem, theres only one old, non-HD photo for Pan tropicalis: https://www.shroomery.org/12488/Panaeolus-tropicalis


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Invisibledoctorghosty
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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23871204 - 11/27/16 06:41 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Copelandia is a now deprecated grouping within the Panaeolus genus of some 12+ subtly different active mushrooms. Most people refer to all of these mushrooms as Panaeolus cyanescens as sort of a catch all term but this is technically incorrect as these mushrooms truly cannot be differentiated by the naked eye alone. For this reason, you won't see any Panaeolus cyanescens observations without supporting microscopy on MushroomObserver.org. In the field you can definitively say both that you found Copelandia and that they are active but to say you found Copelandia cyanescens specifically without the microscopy to support it is an assumption as it could be any number of the macroscopically identical members of Copelandia.

I'm not questioning your IDing skill, I'm simply saying that the members of Copelandia are all so similar looking that microscopy is the only way to differentiate which Copelandia you actually have. I hope that makes sense.


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Cow patty delight? [Re: Dmt_psilocybin]
    #23871244 - 11/27/16 07:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dmt_psilocybin said:
Okay, specifically define copelandia for me i'm curious i know it is not a scientific genus.




Copelandia is a genus of mushrooms closely related to Panaeolus characterized by thick walled metuloid pleurocystidia which are not present in Panaeolus, they also generally have a lack of pigment and stain blue heavily.

In the past Gerhardt thought that Panaeolina with its roughened spores was a different genus than Panaeolus and that Copelandia was the same, but recent DNA evidence shows he was wrong and that Panaeolina species are really Panaeolus while Copelandia is a different genus. There are a few species in the genus which as doctorghasty explains are difficult to tell apart without microscopy and / or DNA evidence. Copelandia cyanescens is likely the most widely distributed species in the genus though. In the future with many more collections studied there may be other ways to help differentiate them in the field such as location, but the data is lacking since no one saves collections and just eats them to get high.


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