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OfflineLeeHarvOz
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short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits.
    #23864848 - 11/24/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i recently took my first stab at growing pan cambos. On this batch i spawned to rye then used straw/coir/hpoo as a bulk substrate. the substrate took a long time to colonize and to begin pinning and all the fruits I've been getting have tiny short stems compared to the typical long stems cambos have. i read that Cambos like a really shallow substrate and this sub is def way too thick (same depth i would have used for cubes prob between 2-4 inches)  and that this could be causing the to grow like that. has anyone else had the same problem who could give me some advice. my next batch i just poured out a thin layer of colonized rye and covered it with just enough coir/hpoo/verm to cover the grain spawn, prob around an inch depth. those trays are colonizing now and will be put into fruiting in 5 or so days hopefully with better results.

heres what my fruits looked like. i picked most of them before taking this pic but they all basically looked the same, it was a monoculture. i also can take pics of the dried fruits i did pick already but I'm not sure thats really necessary.





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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz] * 1
    #23864896 - 11/24/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Those are definitely cubensis and not cambodginiensis :confused:


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864904 - 11/24/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

why do you say that? they are no where near the size of cubes. and they don't look like them at all. plus i grew cubes alongside them with the same sub and they def looked completely different (like cubes should look). I've also seen a pic somewhere on here of a combo grow where the cultivator claimed the sub was too thick and the pics looked remarkably similar to what mine looked like.


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864909 - 11/24/16 11:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

what color should cambo spores be? I'm taking a print right now.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz] * 1
    #23864913 - 11/24/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Lol nah those are definitely cubensis. Classic veil remnants and everything. Cambos look nothing like that, and definitely have no veil remnants. Cambos prints are also black. Why they're so small.. genetics, bad conditions like FAE/surface hydration and a bacterial substrate is the first 3 things that come to mind.


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864918 - 11/24/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is also a possibility.. Cubensis are very aggressive with pans, so they could have also taken it over

Quote:

Workman said:
#5 Psilocybe cubensis (Cubes)

Psilocybe cubensis can contaminate Panaeolus cyanescens (and allies) cultivations and more rarely other species.  The reasons are the same as with oyster contamination (see #3 above) with the additional factor of spores intentionally or mistakenly mislabeled (both species have dark spores so the spore prints are visually similar)

Interestingly, trays of fully colonized Panaeolus can produce a normal flush of Panaeolus mushrooms before becoming overwhelmed by Cubensis mycelium and fruiting cubensis for the 2nd and following flushes.  This generally happens when both species are grown in close proximity and the grow area is loaded with free cubensis spores.  It appears that the Panaeolus colonized substrate is selective for cubensis colonization.  This hints at the possibility of sequential use of manure based substrates. 

 

Although Cubensis contamination is common, pictures are almost always of one species or the other.  Currently I am only able to find one good Shroomery posted picture showing both species growing in the same container.  The two pictures on the right are from the thehawkseye and mycotopia.  If I find more Shroomery posted pictures I will replace the the offsite ones.

Pans don't look like pans

Rogue mushrooms

Cubensis instead of Oysters





Could be also why they're small if there's 2 mushroom species fighting it out on 1 substrate.


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864933 - 11/24/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

def not problems with FAE, genetics were provided by a trusted shroomery member in the form of a petri dish culture (also sent me several cube strains, and tampanesis  which i cleaned up before inoculating grains) and everything else looked exactly like it should have. i grew the cambos  along with some of the cubes which were of cambodian origin as well in an SGFC like i have used to grow cubes for years with the same sub and the cubes looked like cubes. i also did a mono tub of the same culture of the cubes and they looked like this.



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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864937 - 11/24/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
This is also a possibility.. Cubensis are very aggressive with pans, so they could have also taken it over

Quote:

Workman said:
#5 Psilocybe cubensis (Cubes)

Psilocybe cubensis can contaminate Panaeolus cyanescens (and allies) cultivations and more rarely other species.  The reasons are the same as with oyster contamination (see #3 above) with the additional factor of spores intentionally or mistakenly mislabeled (both species have dark spores so the spore prints are visually similar)

Interestingly, trays of fully colonized Panaeolus can produce a normal flush of Panaeolus mushrooms before becoming overwhelmed by Cubensis mycelium and fruiting cubensis for the 2nd and following flushes.  This generally happens when both species are grown in close proximity and the grow area is loaded with free cubensis spores.  It appears that the Panaeolus colonized substrate is selective for cubensis colonization.  This hints at the possibility of sequential use of manure based substrates. 

 

Although Cubensis contamination is common, pictures are almost always of one species or the other.  Currently I am only able to find one good Shroomery posted picture showing both species growing in the same container.  The two pictures on the right are from the thehawkseye and mycotopia.  If I find more Shroomery posted pictures I will replace the the offsite ones.

Pans don't look like pans

Rogue mushrooms

Cubensis instead of Oysters





Could be also why they're small if there's 2 mushroom species fighting it out on 1 substrate.




yea but my "cambos" look nothing like those "cubes" and theres not two different mushrooms growing in my pics its clearly all the same species. every tray was a monoculture of the same mushrooms there wasn't any with more tan one species


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Edited by LeeHarvOz (11/24/16 11:22 PM)


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OfflineLeeHarvOz
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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864940 - 11/24/16 11:21 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

ill take some pics of the spore prints i took this morning and the dried specimens i think are cambos in a few if you guys think that's help


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864945 - 11/24/16 11:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LeeHarvOz said:
yea but my "cambos" look nothing like those "cubes" and theres not two different mushrooms growing in my pics its clearly all the same species. every tray was a monoculture of the same mushrooms there wasn't any with more tan one species



Your Cambos look exactly like cubes xD. Maybe not "those cubes" but they're definitely cubensis. Find me a picture of cambodginiensis with veil remnants and I'll stfu.

Also workman said in that quote he can generally only find grows with 1 or the other species, and has only found 1 pic on all of shroomery with both species growing at the same time. That means that the majority of the time it's just 1 or the other species. Also said that there's been grows where there's pans only first flush, then cubes only for the 2nd.

I was just saying that there's a pretty good possibility the reason why the substrate is so lumpy, and has tiny shrooms, with low yield is because there's 2 species competing, and cubensis always wins against panaeolus.


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864947 - 11/24/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

can you please pot a pic of cubes that look like that cause I've never seen any and i cant find any online right now


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864963 - 11/24/16 11:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Dwarf cubes:


(see the white freckles on the caps. That's universal veil remnants)



This is what dwarfy pans look like:





See how they're lighter capped? Almost tan. Also they have no universal veil remnants, or any veils on the underside.


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864968 - 11/24/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

heres the (mostly) dry "cubes" and "cambos" that i grew in the same SGFC at the same time side by side with the same grains and bulk substrates. only difference was the genetics which i was told were Panaeolus cambodginiensis (left pile) and Psilocybe cubensis: strain: na muang (right pile) when received the cultures. also they colonized at different rates.



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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864970 - 11/24/16 11:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

yea to me what i think are my cambos look a lot like what your dwarf cambos look like


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864974 - 11/24/16 11:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i'd love to just eat em to figure it out the best way possible but i just had a 10 gram cube trip last week. i don't think i need to return to that realm for a few months at least


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864987 - 11/24/16 11:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



I circled all your veil remnants.. Look at the pan pics they have NO veil remnants. You have TONS. This is NOT panaeolus, the morphology is all wrong dude. If I was you, I'd be telling your source they fucked up. Do you have any pics of the source cultures fruits?


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864990 - 11/24/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

these are all the fruits from the source cultures


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23864992 - 11/24/16 11:56 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

if they're both cubes in the same environment on the same substrate why would the be so drastically different?


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: Mad Season]
    #23864993 - 11/24/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:


I circled all your veil remnants.. Look at the pan pics they have NO veil remnants. You have TONS. This is NOT panaeolus, the morphology is all wrong dude. If I was you, I'd be telling your source they fucked up. Do you have any pics of the source cultures fruits?




cambos don't develop veils? i did pick some early before the caps fully opened right before the veils began to or at least before they finish breaking. i also pm'd my source and asked her to chime in in this thread to help clear things up. hopefully well here from her soon.


Edited by LeeHarvOz (11/25/16 12:00 AM)


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Re: short panaeolus cambodginiensis fruits. [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23865000 - 11/25/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LeeHarvOz said:
these are all the fruits from the source cultures



I mean the fruits they had before. The ones they cloned to make these cultures.
Quote:

LeeHarvOz said:
if they're both cubes in the same environment on the same substrate why would the be so drastically different?



Genetics, and like I said, there could be pans in there competing against the cubes, slowing them down A LOT as they take over the pans.

I grow in trays, and when I grow cubes, there can be some insane differences in growth rates as well as fruiting rates, even with the same varieties. No genetics are ever the same. Just like in humans we can see mutations that make people have less desirable traits.
Quote:

LeeHarvOz said:
Quote:

Mad Season said:


I circled all your veil remnants.. Look at the pan pics they have NO veil remnants. You have TONS. This is NOT panaeolus, the morphology is all wrong dude. If I was you, I'd be telling your source they fucked up. Do you have any pics of the source cultures fruits?




cambos don't develop veils? i did pick some early before the caps fully opened right before the veils began to or at least before they finish breaking



That's what I've been trying to tell you xD yeah cambos have no veils. Look at the pins, they're just tiny, but they definitely have no veils underneath the caps. You can see gills under pin caps right from when they come out of the surface.


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