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Origyn
Neato


Registered: 09/18/16
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ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus 1
#23858853 - 11/22/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Habitat: Healthy green and newly seeded grass with lots of clover. High moisture and shade in S. Cal.
Gills: Dark brn to black, attached gills, inserted secondaries, mottled
Stem: 10-12 X 2 mm, rusty brn, shiney and reflective, very fibrous and stringey, striated, hollow, medium brittleness
Cap: ~2-6 mm, fresh color solid dark olive brn, dryer zonated yellow tan top to light tan to dark brn ban working towards margin, tan extreme margin, photo below shows two different drying stages, broadly convex, smooth silky texture, very hygrophanous. Radially striated at margin. Brittle=bag ride home fractured cap
Spore print color: Looking black like last time from same patch but still printing
Bruising: To dark brn. Upon initial check up during printing from dark drawer observed very very faint blue green at cap and butt snip points. Went away.
Other information: Woodsy mushroom smell 99.99% sure not cincts from observances of my local. Only mildly robust.

Edited by Origyn (11/22/16 09:48 PM)
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Origyn]
#23858905 - 11/22/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Looks like olivaceus to me, giant beauties too.
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Origyn
Neato


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Thank you. My concern is that the smooth caps is consistent with fimicola as well as the 100% dark olive brn color of the semi mature caps. I could not find a pic of a 100% olive brn cap of an olivaceus anywhere. Really fighting this one.
Edited by Origyn (11/23/16 11:53 AM)
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Origyn
Neato


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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Origyn]
#23860442 - 11/23/16 12:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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So unless the above mentioned print jet black, we may have cincts with a high moisture environment. The two jumbos were darkest.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Origyn]
#23860504 - 11/23/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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They are likely not cinctulus IMO, almost all Panaeolus besides foenisecii have jet black spores. There is no known toxic Panaeolus so consuming them is fairly safe but there's always a small amount of risk when eating wild plants or mushrooms.
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Origyn
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So do you understand olivaceus to have roughened caps and fimicola to have smooth caps?
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Origyn]
#23860877 - 11/23/16 02:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not always. All species are variable. I have found olivaceus and that's what these look like to me, if you don't trust my opinion wait for someone else to chime in.
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ambc
mycominded



Registered: 10/16/08
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I would call them Panaeolus olivaceus. You could throw in a "group" to ensure an accurate ID, if you are concerned past knowingly it is a mildly (-moderately?) psycho-active Panaeolus species.
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Origyn
Neato


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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: ambc]
#23861388 - 11/23/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I trust your opinion MJK. You've helped a lot on my ID requests. Not really concerned too much with edibility, just dialing in species at this point. Thanks.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Origyn]
#23861449 - 11/23/16 05:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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We are going to need to see microscopy to make an accurate guess.
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ambc
mycominded



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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#23861604 - 11/23/16 06:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said: We are going to need to see microscopy to make an accurate guess.
That's why I woulkd just call it Panaeolus olivaceus (group) unless I really had a wild hair to know for sure!
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Origyn
Neato


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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: ambc]
#23861610 - 11/23/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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No wild hair here. Ok.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: ambc]
#23862201 - 11/23/16 11:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ambc said:
Quote:
Byrain said: We are going to need to see microscopy to make an accurate guess.
That's why I woulkd just call it Panaeolus olivaceus (group) unless I really had a wild hair to know for sure!
Adding 'group' to the end of any identifications that are not sure or lacking information is kind of silly.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#23862276 - 11/24/16 12:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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You've personally told me to use 'Coprinellus sect. micacei' when identifying Coprinellus micaceus in the past...
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: ambc]
#23862436 - 11/24/16 02:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Origyn said:

Nice shot! Seeing a striate margin in Panaeolus sp. is interesting and sometimes a little confusing.
Quote:
ambc said: That's why I woulkd just call it Panaeolus olivaceus (group)
I thought P. olivaceus and P. fimicola are recognized as distinct species?
With Panaeolus it seems easier to know what species they are not. In this case I'd be fairly sure it isn't P. cinctulus.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: You've personally told me to use 'Coprinellus sect. micacei' when identifying Coprinellus micaceus in the past...
Well if you want you can call this Panaeolus sect. Laevispora. We aren't working with a 'group', but a few known taxa where the details to identify them confidentially is not available and requires more thorough work.
Additionally, the situation with Coprinellus sect. Micacei is different. We have an unknown number of taxa which are likely not all described. Scoping them in my experience has never been very satisfying or enlightening and I'm not sure anyone has even confirmed we have Coprinellus micaceus in the states although it would not surprise me.
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#23863434 - 11/24/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said: Well if you want you can call this Panaeolus sect. Laevispora.
Actually if they were P. olivaceus they would be in sect. Verrucispora.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Loc: Van Isle
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#23863531 - 11/24/16 12:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Origyn
Neato


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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: cronicr]
#23863754 - 11/24/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the verified fimicola pics.
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ambc
mycominded



Registered: 10/16/08
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Re: ID Request: Pan Fimicola or Olivaceus [Re: Byrain]
#23863989 - 11/24/16 04:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Byrain said:
Quote:
ambc said:
Quote:
Byrain said: We are going to need to see microscopy to make an accurate guess.
That's why I woulkd just call it Panaeolus olivaceus (group) unless I really had a wild hair to know for sure!
Adding 'group' to the end of any identifications that are not sure or lacking information is kind of silly.
I agree, I was beng facetious.
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