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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
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Loc: Time and Space
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sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth
#23858402 - 11/22/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
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TunggyRunggy
Wizard


Registered: 10/18/16
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I've had to sacrifice freight graffiti for my advancements in school and life in general. Hopefully I'll be able to return to the art I love, but for now I'll have to just keep it in the sketch books and be an appreciator.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,659
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: TunggyRunggy]
#23858525 - 11/22/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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nvm. Best of luck
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (11/22/16 08:04 PM)
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yeah



Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 22 days
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
Humiliation, stress, grieving, loss, friendlessness, hopelessness, faithlessness and purgatory
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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I sacrificed your computer after your comment it seemed the right thing to do.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
This is just the interpretation of the pattern of stars, and planets dreamed up by those who follow a solar-phallic mythology which suppressed the Great Mother lunar-based mythos
The former myth is of course pushed, and favoured, by the monetary class who wants to rape Mother Earth and all those it considers its servants.
They all promote Satan/Saturn/Lucifer symbolism. They think their shitty arsed selves are gods. So if you buy into their myth you support their toxic BS story which acts out and is destroying the natural world.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,659
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23860567 - 11/23/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I never fell for this children's story. It just is so ..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................yeah....................................................................................
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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SpiritualWarrior
Stranger



Registered: 09/15/13
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: yeah] 2
#23860939 - 11/23/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said:
Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
Humiliation, stress, grieving, loss, friendlessness, hopelessness, faithlessness and purgatory
I like your answer man.
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mantis83
Stranger
Registered: 10/27/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Quote:
In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn.
What sacrifices have you made in your life?
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
So you openly admit to being a Satanist?
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: mantis83]
#23861428 - 11/23/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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As someone who has been personally targeted by Satan himself, no I am not a Satanist. I don't like Satan at all.
I'm using Astrology language that I recently found out about. I'd rather refer to it as Saturn, a planet energy. In these terms, Saturn is not seen as evil but a force that must be dealt with if we are to achieve certain things in life.
They say the root of all evil is money but we need it to survive. So we make sacrifices in order to get it. I don't think we have to go to hell if we like comfortable lives with nice things.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23861461 - 11/23/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said: I sacrificed your computer after your comment it seemed the right thing to do.
Haha!
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said: I sacrificed your computer after your comment it seemed the right thing to do.
Haha! 
ha ha
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
Edited by LunarEclipse (11/23/16 06:02 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23861591 - 11/23/16 06:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dopamine is a good example of the "Saturn" complex.
you need it, but it kicks your ass.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23861978 - 11/23/16 09:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
They all promote Satan/Saturn/Lucifer symbolism. They think their shitty arsed selves are gods. So if you buy into their myth you support their toxic BS story which acts out and is destroying the natural world.
You don't understand Luciferianism if that's what you think.
-------------------- ©️
Edited by Lucis (11/23/16 09:36 PM)
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23862013 - 11/23/16 09:37 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
This is just the interpretation of the pattern of stars, and planets dreamed up by those who follow a solar-phallic mythology which suppressed the Great Mother lunar-based mythos
The former myth is of course pushed, and favoured, by the monetary class who wants to rape Mother Earth and all those it considers its servants.
They all promote Satan/Saturn/Lucifer symbolism. They think their shitty arsed selves are gods. So if you buy into their myth you support their toxic BS story which acts out and is destroying the natural world.
Please read the forum rules. The Ban o' Matic says you're one flame away from a permaban.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Middleman]
#23862597 - 11/24/16 05:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: In astrology, Satan is referred to as Saturn. Saturn rules over the Earth. He controls money, wealth, fame and success.
Success in this world requires sacrifice. Time and energy is a kind of sacrifice. Sacrifices can be material, literal..
I got a new job two weeks ago. My computer totally fried itself tonight. It's dead. I made an unintentional sacrifice to the gods to ensure my success.
What sacrifices have you made in your life? At every stage, I've had to give up something.. I could return to it later. For example, the Shroomery.
Saturn demands sacrifice! Or you're going nowhere!
This is just the interpretation of the pattern of stars, and planets dreamed up by those who follow a solar-phallic mythology which suppressed the Great Mother lunar-based mythos
The former myth is of course pushed, and favoured, by the monetary class who wants to rape Mother Earth and all those it considers its servants.
They all promote Satan/Saturn/Lucifer symbolism. They think their shitty arsed selves are gods. So if you buy into their myth you support their toxic BS story which acts out and is destroying the natural world.
Please read the forum rules. The Ban o' Matic says you're one flame away from a permaban.
edit
Edited by zzripz (11/24/16 05:16 AM)
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Quote:
They say the root of all evil is money but we need it to survive.
the love of money
Quote:
First Epistle to Timothy in the New Testament (1 Timothy 6:10, KJV): "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Middleman] 2
#23863979 - 11/24/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Please read the forum rules. The Ban o' Matic says you're one flame away from a permaban.

You know, as time goes on, I really love reading your posts. You seem to be one of the most intelligent people on here. I laugh when you close one of my threads, because it was worthy of being closed, and you usually do it with humor.
Keep up the good work, my Middleman.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23864010 - 11/24/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
They say the root of all evil is money but we need it to survive.
the love of money
Quote:
First Epistle to Timothy in the New Testament (1 Timothy 6:10, KJV): "For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil."
Knowledge is my currency, give me wisdom above everything.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Lucis]
#23865261 - 11/25/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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knowledge and wisdom aren't the same though. You can have knowledge but lack wisdom.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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The Greco Roman god saturn could be interpreted as malevolent... But for instance a saturnine temperament is a kind of melancholia, and oppressive condition, for the most part removed from violence.
On the other hand Saturn who carries a sickle in traditional iconography (Saturn is also known in Geeek as Cronus which etymologically relates with the word "time", Khronos, but also literally meant "to cut") is the god who castrated and deposed his father as ruler of the universe (his father was Ouranos - Uranaus, "heaven" husband of Gaia "earth"). Also the thing about Saturn is after his coup, subsequently, he ritually eats his own progeny so as to assure the same thing would not happen to him, as Uranus said it would, in his moment of downfall.
Under Saturn's rule, time, or rather the happenstance of a generational influence, may seem to oppress and devour all and everything. Saturn is more like a disciplinarian and punitive father, potentially with more latent violence, (and the father in turn may be the face of Freud's super-ego, urging us to discipline and morality, or may plainly represent patriarchal society) more than a strictly malevolent "force". But anyone could be forgiven to think Saturn is malevolent. I have little doubt that again and again, fathers can be pretty devilish, and it is true that old white men and petty backwater misers are the cause of endless perpetuated sufferings in the world. Saturn in astrology is the first of the outer generational influences.
On the plus side, one of Saturn's sons, Zeus (or Jupiter) redeems himself. In astrology jupiter's influence is associated with expansiveness, domain and luck. Zeus or Jupiter in greek mythology is ruler of the classic Pantheon in greek myth, up on Olympus in Homer, and he initially escapes being eaten, with the help of his mother (Like Saturn himself escaped Ouranos). Eventually "over time" and maybe with a little luck Jupiter indeed overthrows saturn/cronus, and the Titans (Old Gods), with the help of his brothers, Poseidan/Neptune, and Pluto/ Hades. You can read about this in Hesiod's Theogeny, (Theogeny the genesis and geneological decent of the Gods).
I agree with the interpretation of Saturn as malevolent. I don't think it makes sense to call him the equivelent of judeo-christian's satan. I guess generally myths overlap though. For instance, the Saturnalia, a religious festival, foe Saturn, occurs on and around the winter solstice, and this pagan celebration also happens to be around Christmas. So likely Christmas is a vestige of that earlier pagan holiday, but I am sure most people around here are pretty aware of things like that. Saturn will traditionally ask for dedication or discipline, and indeed perhaps for people to enact sacrifice. This sacrificial structure, could be read as implied somehow these immediate relations - the violence as an explicit act, sublimated and then perpetuated.
At any rate, interesting thread EC. I would say I think of Saturn as the perpetuation of latent violence through generation by generation influence. The question may be how much one is urged or forced to go along with this tradition. I would agree the greatest act of evil, is not simply in an explosive flare up of anger, in human to human violence in general, or an intent to harm, but the way one generation, due to its institutionalized place in history and time, holds power over something that is young and growing and seeking its fair possibility. A fight should be a fair fight not a bullying. Saturn, as far as this goes, literally eats babies. The saturnine oppression is in my opinion, (if anything demonstrates it) despicable and evil, but undoubtedly perpetuates itself out of issues with a father, so it has to be overcome and forgiven or at least forgotten rather than perpetuated.
For interested in comparative mythology, they might find Rene Girard's work "Violence and The Sacred" worth reading. Girard says that sacrifice is a social-familial, (or cult) institution, to sublimate and soften violence, however effectively...
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
Posts: 1,688
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Kurt] 1
#23867992 - 11/26/16 07:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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From Violence and the Sacred:
Quote:
In many rituals the sacrifical act assumes two opposing aspects, appearing at times as a sacred obligation to be neglected at grave peril, at other times as a sort of criminal activity entailing perils of equal gravity. To account for this dual aspect of ritual sacrifice—the legitimate and the illegitimate, the public and the all but covert—Henri Hubert and Marcel Mauss, in their “Essay on the Nature and Function of Sacrifice, adduce the sacred character of the victim. Because the victim is sacred, it is criminal to kill him—but the victim is sacred only because he is to be killed.
Here is a circular line of reasoning that at a somewhat later date would be dignified by the sonorous term ambivalence. Persuasive and authoritative as that term still appears, it has been so extraordinarily abused in our century that perhaps we may now recognize how little light it sheds on the subject of sacrifice. Certainly it provides no real explanation. When we speak of ambivalence, we are only pointing out a problem that remains to be solved.
If sacrifice resembles criminal violence, we may say that there is, inversely, hardly any form of violence that cannot be described in terms of sacrifice—as Greek tragedy clearly reveals. It has often been observed that the tragic poets cast a glimmering veil of rhetoric over the sordid realities of life. True enough—but sacrifice and murder would not lend themselves to this game of reciprocal substitution if they were not in some way related. Although it is so obvious that it may hardly seem worth mentioning, where sacrifice is concerned first appearances count for little, are quickly brushed aside—and should therefore receive special attention. Once one has made up one’s mind that sacrifice is an institution essentially if not entirely symbolic, one can say anything whatsoever about it. It is a subject that lends itself to insubstantial theorizing. Sacrifice contains an element of mystery. And if the pieties of classical humanists lull our curiosity to sleep, the company of the ancient authors keeps it alert. The ancient mystery remains as impenetrable as ever.
From the manner in which the moderns treat the subject of sacrifice, it would be hard to know whether distraction, detachment, or some sort of secret discretion shapes their thinking. There seems to be yet another mystery here. Why, for example, do we never explore the relationship between sacrifice and violence? Recent studies suggest that the physiology of violence varies little from one individual to another, even from one culture to another. According to Anthony Storr, nothing resembles an angry cat or man so much as another angry cat or man. If violence did indeed play a role in sacrifice, at least at one particular stage of the ritual, we would have a significant clue to the whole subject. Here would be a factor to some extent independent of those cultural variables that are often unknown to us, or only dimly known, or perhaps less familiar than we like to think. Once aroused, the urge to violence triggers certain physical changes that prepare men’s bodies for battle. This set toward violence lingers on; it should not be regarded as a simple reflex that ceases with the removal of the initial stimulus. Storr remarks that it is more difficult to quell an impulse toward violence than to rouse it, especially within the normal framework of social behavior. Violence is frequently called irrational. It has its reasons, however, and can marshal some rather convincing ones when the need arises. Yet these reasons cannot be taken seriously, no matter how valid they may appear. Violence itself will discard them if the initial object remains persistently out of reach and continues to provoke hostility. When unappeased, violence seeks and always finds a surrogate victim. The creature that excited its fury is abruptly replaced by another, chosen only because it is vulnerable and close at hand.
There are many indications that this tendency to seek out surrogate objects is not limited to human violence. Konrad Lorenz makes reference to a species of fish that, if deprived of its natural enemies (the male rivals with whom it habitually disputes territorial rights), turns its aggression against the members of its own family and destroys them. Joseph de Maistre discusses the choice of animal victims that display human characteristics—an attempt, as it were, to deceive the violent impulse: “The sacrificial animals were always those most prized for their usefulness: the gentlest, most innocent creatures, whose habits and instincts brough them most closely into harmony with man. . . . From the animal realm were chosen as victims those who were, if we might use the phrase, the most human in nature.”
Modern ethnology offers many examples of this sort of intuitive behavior. In some pastoral communities where sacrifice is practiced, the cattle are intimately associated with the daily life of the inhabitants. Two peoples of the Upper Nile, for example—the Nuers, observed by E. E. Evans-Pritchard, and the Dinka, studied at a somewhat later date by Godfrey Lienhardt—maintain a bovine society in their midst that parallels their own and is structured in the same fashion. The Nuer vocabulary is rich in words describing the ways of cattle and covering the economic and practical, as well as the poetic and ritualistic, aspects of these beasts. This wealth of expression makes possible a precise and finely nuanced relationship between the cattle, on the one hand, and the human community on the other. The animals’ color, the shape of their horns, their age, sex, and lineage are all duly noted and remembered, sometimes as far back as five generations. The cattle are thereby differentiated in such a way as to create a scale of values that approximates human distinctions and represents a virtual duplicate of human society. Among the names bestowed on each man is one that also belongs to the animal whose place in the herd is most similar to the place the man occupies in the tribe.
The quarrels between various subgroups of the tribes frequently involve cattle. All fines and interest payments are computed in terms of head of cattle, and dowries are apportioned in herds. In fact, Evans-Rritchard maintains that in order to understand the Nuer, one must "chercher la vache”—“look to the cows.” A sort of “symbiosis” (the term is also Evans-Pritchard’s) exists between this tribe and their cattle, offering an extreme and almost grotesque example of the closeness that characteristically prevails between pastoral peoples and their flocks.
Fieldwork and subsequent theoretical speculation lead us back to the hypothesis of substitution as the basis for the practice of sacrifice. This notion pervades ancient literature on the subject—which may be one reason, in fact, why many modern theorists reject the concept out of hand or give it only scant attention. Hubert and Mauss, for instance, view the idea with suspicion, undoubtedly because they feel that it introduces into the discussion religious and moral values that are incompatible with true scientific inquiry. And to be sure, Joseph de Maistre takes the view that the ritual victim is an “innocent” creature who pays a debt for the “guilty” party. I propose an hypothesis that does away with this moral distinction. As I see it, the relationship between the potential victim and the actual victim cannot be defined in terms of innocence or guilt. There is no question of “expiation.” Rather, society is seeking to deflect upon a relatively indifferent victim, a “sacrificeable” victim, the violence that would otherwise be vented on its own members, the people it most desires to protect. The qualities that lend violence its particular terror—its blind brutality, the fundamental absurdity of its manifestations—have a reverse side. With these qualities goes the strange propensity to seize upon surrogate victims, to actually conspire with the enemy and at the right moment toss him a morsel that will serve to satisfy his raging hunger. The fairy tales of childhood in which the wolf, ogre, or dragon gobbles up a large stone in place of a small child could well be said to have a sacrifical cast.
2
Violence is not to be denied, but it can be diverted to another object, something it can sink its teeth into. Such, perhaps, is one of the meanings of the story of Cain and Abel. The Bible offers us no background on the two brothers except the bare fact that Cain is a tiller of the soil who gives the fruits of his labor to God, whereas Abel is a shepherd who regularly sacrifices the first-born of his herds. One of the brothers kills the other, and the murderer is the one who does not have the violence-outlet of animal sacrifice at his disposal. This difference between sacrificial and nonsacrificial cults determines, in effect, God’s judgement in favor of Abel. To say that God accedes to Abel’s sacrificial offerings but rejects the offerings of Cain is simply another way of saying—from the viewpoint of the divinity—that Cain is a murderer, whereas his brother is not. A frequent motif in the Old Testament, as well as in Greek myth, is that of brothers at odds with one another. Their fatal penchant for violence can only be diverted by the intervention of a third party, the sacrificial victim or victims. Cain’s “jealousy” of his brother is only another term for his one characteristic trait: his lack of a sacrificial outlet.
According to Moslem tradition, God delivered to Abraham the ram previously sacrificed by Abel. This ram was to take the place of Abraham’s son Isaac; having already saved one human life, the same animal would bow save another. What we have here is no mystical hocuspocus, but an intuitive insight into the essential function of sacrifice, gleaned exclusively from the scant references in the Bible.
Another familiar biblical scene takes on new meaning in the light of our theory of sacrificial substitution, and it can serve in turn to illuminate some aspects of the theory. The scene is that in which Jacob receives the blessing of his father Isaac. Isaac is an old man. He senses the approach of death and summons his eldest son, Esau, on whom he intends to bestow his final blessing. First, however, he instructs Esau to bring back some venison from the hunt, so as to make a “savory meat.” This request is overheard by the younger brother, Jacob, who hastens to report it to his mother, Rebekah. Rebekah takes two kids from the family flock, slaughters them, and prepares the savory meat dish, which Jacob, in the guise of his elder brother, then presents to his father. Isaac is blind. Nevertheless Jacob fears he will be recognized, for he is a “smooth man,” while his brother Esau is a “hairy man.” “My father per-adventure will feel me, and I shall seem to him as a deceiver; and I shall bring a curse upon me, not a blessing.” Rebekah has the idea of covering Jacob’s hands and the back of his neck with the skins of the slaughtered goats, and when the old man runs his hands over his younger son, he is completely taken in by the imposture. Jacob receives the blessing that Isaac had intended for Esau.
The kids serve in two different ways to dupe the father—or, in other terms, to divert from the son the violence directed toward him. In order to receive his father’s blessing rather than his curse, Jacob must present to Isaac the freshly slaughtered kids made into a “savory meat.” Then the son must seek refuge, literally, in the skins of the sacrificed animals. The animals thus interpose themselves between father and son. They serve as a sort of insulation, preventing the direct contact that could lead only to violence.
Two sorts of substitution are telescoped here: that of one brother for another, and that of an animal for a man. Only the first receives explicit recognition in the text; however, this first one serves as the screen upon which the shadow of the second is projected. Once we have focused attention on the sacrificial victim, the object originally singled out for violence fades from view. Sacrificial substitution implies a degree of misunderstanding. Its vitality as an institution depends on its ability to conceal the displacement upon which the rite is based. It must never lose sight entirely, however, of the original object, or cease to be aware of the act of transference from that object to the surrogate victim; without that awareness no substitution can take place and the sacrifice loses all efficacy.
The biblical passage discussed above meets both requirements. The narrative does not refer directly to the strange deception underlying the sacrificial substitution, nor does it allow this deception to pass entirely unnoticed. Rather, it mixes the act of substitution with another act of substitution, permitting us a fleeting, sidelong glimpse of the process. The narrative itself, then, might be said to partake of a sacrificial quality; it claims to reveal one act of substitution while employing this first substitution to half-conceal another. There is reason to believe that the narrative touches upon the mythic origins of the sacrificial system.
The figure of Jacob has long been linked with the devious character of sacrificial violence. In Greek culture Odysseus plays a similar role. The story of Jacob’s benediction can be compared to the episode of the Cyclops in the Odyssey, where a splendidly executed ruse enables the hero to escape the clutches of a monster. Odysseus and his shipmates are shut up in the Cyclops’ cave. Every day the giant devours one of the crew; the survivors finally manage to blind their tormentor with a flaming stake. Mad with pain and anger, the Cyclops bars the entrance of the cave to prevent the men from escaping. However, he lets pass his flock of sheep, which go out daily to pasture. In a gesture reminiscent of the blind Isaac, the Cyclops runs his hands over the back of each sheep as it leaves the cave to make sure that it carries no passenger. Odysseus, however, has outwitted his captor, and he rides to freedom by clinging to the thick wool on the underside of one of the rams.
A comparison of the two scenes, one from Genesis and the other from the Odyssey, lends credence to the theory of their sacrificial origins. In each case an animal intervenes at the crucial moment to prevent violence from attaining its designated victim. The two texts are mutually revealing: the Cyclops of the Odyssey underlines the fearful menace that hangs over the hero (and that remains obscure in the Genesis story); and the slaughter of the kids in Genesis, along with the offering of the “savory meat,” clearly implies the sacrificial character of the flock, an aspect that might go unnoticed in the Odyssey.
Also:
Edited by Kurt (11/26/16 08:48 AM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,659
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Kurt]
#23868704 - 11/26/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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lord of earth? haha what are you on about. earth is earth, saturn is saturn .
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: The Blind Ass]
#23869627 - 11/26/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you would mean that Saturn is a material planetary body, if you want to be categorical rather than tautological.
Anyway as I took it this thread is about mythology concerning Saturn, and stories primarily. I am not sure if you are aware or ambivilant to comprehend, but the planet Saturn was named after a mythological deity, and has been culturally transmitted. I am not saying anything about the planet Saturn, or drawing any plausible or implausible association that a planet might have with "mythical qualities" in nature, if that is what you are suggesting. I would not argue that anyway, so nice strawman.
Jupiter Saturn and Uranus, are the heirarchical ruler gods in Hesiod and Homer, and that is mainly what I was speaking to. A projected issue about cosmology or metaphysical assertions seems to be your own uncomfortable connotation, and not really the topic.
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Lucis
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz] 1
#23869936 - 11/26/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: knowledge and wisdom aren't the same though. You can have knowledge but lack wisdom.
True, but if you approach a subject with a humble heart, and are willing to learn, and use what you learn to better yourself and your community, then your want of knowledge brings wisdom through proper actions.
This is a major part of what Lucifer means to me, to shed light, not to master.
-------------------- ©️
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LunarEclipse
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Lucis]
#23870070 - 11/26/16 06:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Such pomposity on this thread. At least the OP didn't further try to analyze me. He's obviously fking whacked, and that's that.
Me, I want a Humble Heart. I don't give a fuck about Saturn, your anus, Uranus, or Jupiter, or Venus, or any of that shit. I want humility.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Kurt
Thinker, blinker, writer, typer.

Registered: 11/26/14
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: LunarEclipse]
#23870496 - 11/26/16 09:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Give me humility or give me death?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Kurt] 1
#23870682 - 11/26/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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those were good posts, Kurt. i don't see why they don't appreciate 'em. there is a lot to learn in just the Greek mythlore itself.
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zzripz
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I personally have never been that into astrology, though am more drawn to the Moon. Not only because it is very visible and fascinating, how it changes and its releationship with Earth and the tides, etc, but also finding out it was/is central to Goddess mythos
I got drawn into looking more into astrology and how they believe it after my investigating the 9/11 false flag and finding out that the ones behind it are VERY into their version of astrology, occult astrology. Here are some quotes from the video series to do with the role Saturn played (etc) for these people in relation to their '9/11':
Quote:
The right-angled triangle surrounding Virgo was partly reflected in the layout of Federal Triangle. The Whitehouse, Washington Monument, and Capitol Building were designed in a right-triangle according to a star pattern above where three stars surround the constellation Virgo forming a stellar triangle. With this in mind consider the following: on September 2001, during the incident involving the Twin Towers, there was above an important astrological alignment between two of the most powerful celestial bodies, Saturn and Pluto. They formed an important aspect to each other, a highly destructive one, an opposition. Let us begin by looking at the planet Saturn.
Saturn: Astrological Symbolism, is that of the “planet of Form and Structure”. It is also known as the planet of “Materialistic Power”. Saturn on 9/11 was in the sign of Gemini [the Gemini sign looks like the twin towers, and/or 11], the “Twins”. Gemini also represents “Multiplicity”.
 Gemini symbol
...We considered the astrological 180 degree opposition on 9/11 between two key astrological planets, Saturn and Pluto. Saturn, the planet of structure and materialistic power, in the sign of the Twins and the multiplicity gave us below reflection. The twinned trade structural centre of materialistic power complete with multiple floors.
...A closer look at the sign which Saturn occupied on 9/11 reveals that Gemini ruled by Mercury, the winged messenger, is the sign of “Communication”. Saturn whose astrological symbolism also includes “Restriction”, whilst in Gemini can be said to be astrologically the restriction of communication, and that is certainly something the official explanation expects us to believe both with NORAD, and the FAA, suffering serious set-backs in communication by failing to dispatch intercepting aircraft.
More impressive As Above So Blow correlations can be seen when we consider that the topping-out, or final structuring work, was completed on the WTC when Saturn entered Gemini years previously in 1971. But it wasn’t until two years later that the WTC opening ceremony was held when Saturn occupied the exact same area of Gemini as it did on 9/11 giving us another remarkable As Above So Below correlation of Saturn being in the exact same place when the Twin Towers were being publicly opened in 1973, and so publicly closed on 9/11 2001. Indeed, there are some striking resemblances between Saturn above, and the WTC below.
According to the NASA website, Saturn’s rings are made up of 7 parts, and remarkably the WTC has 7 buildings. The occult symbol for Saturn, seen here [4:59] from the Freemasonic Scottish Rite depiction, is the Seal of Solomon, and the 7th building of the WTC was the Salomon Building. Minoru Yamasaki, designed the WTC complex to aesthetically mirror the Islamic temple at Mecca where the Black Stone of the Kaaba is placed [5:17 and in image you can see twin towers here also!]. Many historians believe the Kaaba itself is a pagan representation of the planet Saturn. Did the Illuminati design and build the WTC complex [image of the Rockefeller brother with fingers on miniature representation of the WTC complex 5:31] to hermetically mirror the symbolism of Saturn in some way?
Saturn: 7 rings; Seal of Solomon; Kaaba at Mecca; In mid Gemini (the Twins) in 1973; In mid Gemini on 9/11.
 Seal of Solomon
In occult lore, Saturn is known as “The Gateway to the Gods”, and “The Dweller on the Threshold” giving us the idea of Saturn symbolizing an entrance to somewhere, or something, but where?
...The astrological configuration on 9/11 with Saturn, planet of structure, and materialistic power in the sign of Gemini, the Twins, gives us a direct As Above So Below reflection, as does Pluto, planet of transformation through destruction, in the sign of Sagittarius. Religion, and foreign cultures, long distance travel, symbolic of the alleged hijackers and their religiously-inspired plot destroy the structural centre of materialistic power in New York thereby transforming the country of America, and the world in one fell swoop. With such an impressive As Above So Below correlation on that day, we ask the question: do you believe in magic? ~
Edited by zzripz (11/27/16 05:07 AM)
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Mescalean
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23871148 - 11/27/16 05:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude, thank you for posting this. Some coworkers and I were discussing the whole electric universe theory. And the"gateway to the gods" bit is all the more interesting. Knew about the symbolism with the star of david and what not, but had no idea it was tied into 9/11. If you ever have the time can you send me some links to read on maybe some shit like the above?
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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zzripz
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Mescalean]
#23871379 - 11/27/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said: Dude, thank you for posting this. Some coworkers and I were discussing the whole electric universe theory. And the"gateway to the gods" bit is all the more interesting. Knew about the symbolism with the star of david and what not, but had no idea it was tied into 9/11. If you ever have the time can you send me some links to read on maybe some shit like the above?
well if your really interested, it would be very worth your while to watch the whole series of videos, that one I linked being part 1. There's about another 4.
But yes I will look for other links to do with it. One symbol that correlates to the so-called 'Seal of Solomon/Saturn' is the symbol on the one dollar bill:

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akira_akuma
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: zzripz]
#23871780 - 11/27/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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that's a shitty pentagram.
tell zzripz that was an interesting post, though. i love seeing how symbolism as old as man connects to present-day.
water flows through it, and it suffuses what's below; and what's below is also most certainly above.
and Gemini is very mercurial and divine, in it's own right. Pluto, hey, that's my planet, good boy.
Edited by akira_akuma (11/27/16 11:47 AM)
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Mescalean
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: akira_akuma]
#23876136 - 11/28/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: that's a shitty pentagram.
tell zzripz that was an interesting post, though. i love seeing how symbolism as old as man connects to present-day.
water flows through it, and it suffuses what's below; and what's below is also most certainly above.
and Gemini is very mercurial and divine, in it's own right. Pluto, hey, that's my planet, good boy.
quoted because im guessing he cant see?
and thanks for the info dude, i agree with akira its something that interests me. Shows the true nature or the control structures we live with now and which groups are behind them. curious wtf is my planet if im a leo, like dead center leo aug 16.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Mescalean
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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Mescalean]
#23876143 - 11/28/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also thats a hexagram, star of david. can fit the thing in saturns north pole. pretty trippppppyyyy maaaaannnnn
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Mescalean]
#23877112 - 11/29/16 02:47 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mescalean said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: that's a shitty pentagram.
tell zzripz that was an interesting post, though. i love seeing how symbolism as old as man connects to present-day.
water flows through it, and it suffuses what's below; and what's below is also most certainly above.
and Gemini is very mercurial and divine, in it's own right. Pluto, hey, that's my planet, good boy.
quoted because im guessing he cant see?
and thanks for the info dude, i agree with akira its something that interests me. Shows the true nature or the control structures we live with now and which groups are behind them. curious wtf is my planet if im a leo, like dead center leo aug 16.
Leo's 'planet' is The Sun.
i'm a Scorpio, my planet is not even a planet anymore.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: sacrifice to Saturn, Lord of the earth [Re: Kurt] 1
#23877209 - 11/29/16 04:01 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kurt said: At any rate, interesting thread EC. I would say I think of Saturn as the perpetuation of latent violence through generation by generation influence. The question may be how much one is urged or forced to go along with this tradition. I would agree the greatest act of evil, is not simply in an explosive flare up of anger, in human to human violence in general, or an intent to harm, but the way one generation, due to its institutionalized place in history and time, holds power over something that is young and growing and seeking its fair possibility. A fight should be a fair fight not a bullying. Saturn, as far as this goes, literally eats babies. The saturnine oppression is in my opinion, (if anything demonstrates it) despicable and evil, but undoubtedly perpetuates itself out of issues with a father, so it has to be overcome and forgiven or at least forgotten rather than perpetuated.
This is a really interesting point.
In alchemy, Saturn is associated with lead, which is, of course, the most feminine of all the metals, being soft, dull and without colour.
The nature of the feminine is to remain in one place, and thus it associates with a certain kind of conservatism.
I'd never thought that it might refer specifically to the conservatism of the old as they suck energy out of the young, but now that you mention it it makes sense.
I think it's of special import to us in a drugs forum because, let's face it, it's scared old people who have made and who keep drugs illegal.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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