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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Water in jars after PC
    #23856029 - 11/21/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Hi all. I used my PC, and after that sterilization, my jars turned wet inside. Water is on sides of jar, i remember jars were dry before PC. Well some jars are now turned dry again (smallest  one), but some of them still wet and some grains stick to jar because of water. Well what should i do? Its just 12 hours after inoculation..maybe its okay and jars will turn dry in few days. Well water is after double PCing anyways, so its sterile.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856032 - 11/22/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I used foil for sure, if anyone wants to know.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856041 - 11/22/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Have your jars completely elevated out of the water.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23856058 - 11/22/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, water level was around  5-6 cm, so jars was like half in water or less. Uploading pictures atm.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856059 - 11/22/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)


Some of jars are dry inside as i said, and they tend to dry ( thats my opinion, because all of them was wet, now few are drier than others), they were a lot more wet few days ago after first PC procedure. What to do, just keep waiting for myc to appear? I have a lot of verm also, as you can see


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856072 - 11/22/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

How did you prepare your grain?
Using a vermiculite layer on the bottom is pretty old school.

Take a look here:
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Grain-Preparation


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: enlightenment]
    #23856080 - 11/22/16 12:25 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I soaked grains in h2o2 for 12 hours, cooked it for like 15-20 mins, then let it sit for a while, then PC two times. It always worked for me you know, we are here using old school teks. I think this could be syringe too, since spore syringe is water with spores. Also it could be condensate from PC.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856087 - 11/22/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I think i cant do anything now, jars are in incubator and i have just to sit and wait. Some of jars are dry so its not 100% fail.


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856113 - 11/22/16 01:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Your fail rate can be reduced significantly by improving your methods.
Some of the condensation gets absorbed by the grain within 48 hours.
Anyway good luck


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: enlightenment]
    #23856233 - 11/22/16 03:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

If water content is the issue then the ni fail wbs tek you seem to be following will fail you. Better to dry then too wet you are correct
With all grain a simple hot ish water soak for 20+ hour followed by draining to air dry 1 hour works best.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: tump]
    #23856255 - 11/22/16 03:53 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Some of the condensation gets absorbed by the grain within 48 hours.

- i see, even after 5 hours its getting absorbed. I think tommorow i would be fine.


No, water content is not the issue. I did soaked grains, they boiled them, then dried on towel for few hours.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23856271 - 11/22/16 04:14 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It looks to me like condensation, which is simply and indicator that temperatures inside the jar are higher than outside. Did you let them cool completely before taking them out?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Tiamo]
    #23856280 - 11/22/16 04:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

After the PC cycle (one of 2 hours is enough) I shake them a bit and let them rest for at least six hours before inoculating. Then they lose all their water inside which is getting absorbed by the grains.

But don't worry, after my first time of grain preperation I also thoughht I made something wrong but it's quite normal that there is condesation after the PC cycle.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23856302 - 11/22/16 05:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i hope u meant u soaked in H2o, not h2o2…that would be expensive and have no beneficial effect.

all that verm on the bottom is gonna dry out ur grains if u shake it.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23856314 - 11/22/16 05:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Oh, didn't even noticed that he wrote H2O2, beside the price for it I can't see andy advantage of saoking in peroxide.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23860069 - 11/23/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I should shake it very strong, so the verm would mix with grains, everything would be from top to bottom? I soaked in h2o, but adding a small bottle of h2o2, then i changed my water few times, washed grains, and then only started cooking.

Some grains are stick to the sides of jar, i think these spots will have bacteria.

So should i shake jars totally, so verm from bottom will spread all around the jar? Also i see no visible life yet, 48 hours after inoculation. Temp is running 26.5С


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23860103 - 11/23/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LosAndreas36 said:
Yes, water level was around  5-6 cm, so jars was like half in water or less.




You don't need this much water. You need enough water that your pressure cooker doesn't run dry during the cycle, and much more water than that is not ideal for grain jars. In my PC, when I'm using jar rings to elevate my jars off the bottom of the cooker, I only need enough water to just come to the tops of those jar rings on the floor of the PC. Which is probably 2cm or so.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: freespeech]
    #23860191 - 11/23/16 10:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Also my PC is ran out of water anyways, even that i used 6 cm of water.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23860200 - 11/23/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

i use 1.5 inches of water. sometimes more sometimes less.
barely above the rack in the pc.

if your pc runs out of 6cm of water you have the
heat turned up way to high.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: mushboy]
    #23860237 - 11/23/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Either your PC is broken or you are doing it wrong. I have two PCs and they both lose virtually no water after running for 90-120 minutes.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: freespeech]
    #23860489 - 11/23/16 12:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yep probably too much heat... Well i wonder condensation in jars are really bad? Water is sterile i guess...after double-pcing.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23860527 - 11/23/16 12:50 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

The problem is that grain is not perfectly sterile even after a lengthy PC cycle. Excess water pooling in the jar allows any surviving bacteria to bloom ruining the spawn.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #23875472 - 11/28/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)



Hello shroomery...7 days from inoculation, myc is showed up in all jars, waiting for colonization.
Do this looks healthy. You can see grain stick to thw side of the jar. Will myc colonize it?


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23875476 - 11/28/16 03:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Or maybe i could cut it out before casing..


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23875798 - 11/28/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What is that on the bottom of the jar? Also rye and a bad picture or is it something else? Looks a bit like verm.

The white stuff seems to be myc, but the pictures are that bad that its hard to say if it really is.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23876010 - 11/28/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LosAndreas36 said:





the 3rd pic is clear and shows its rye on top a layer of verm, with myc growing on the rye where it meets the verm


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23876116 - 11/28/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What is that for a tek? Never heared of :smile:


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23876294 - 11/28/16 07:53 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Seems like he's condensing an old full casing tek into a kind of pf jar ish tek?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: axis_tech]
    #23876310 - 11/28/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

This is some old school shit. Putting verm on the bottom to soak up leftover water. Just use smaller holes on the lids and ya probably need better filters too. Also the foil when used for PCing is on tight to limit water from getting in. Then removed for colonization when you inoculate..

Soaking with h2o2 is a waste. It turns into h2o pretty damn quickly.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Mad Season]
    #23876421 - 11/28/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yea and it's not going to do anything the pressure cooker wouldnt do, I'm guessing it's a typo or lost in translation either way there should not be that much moisture left in a jar.


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: axis_tech]
    #23877039 - 11/29/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Well i used foil for sure.the problem is one single grain are stick to the side of jar.if you dont see it ill take better pics today. I dont see any problems than some water in some jars.(not in all)


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Edited by LosAndreas36 (11/29/16 01:49 AM)


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23896018 - 12/05/16 07:07 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)




My jar is okay? It smelt just shrooms when i broke mycelium and cased it.
I want to make SGFC. Where should i drill holes? I measured, the size is fine for 4 casings inside. Just where i need to make holes, and can i use ceramsite instead of perlite?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23896128 - 12/05/16 08:16 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LosAndreas36 said:
I want to make SGFC. Where should i drill holes?




EVERYWHERE........1/4" holes, 2" apart.


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Edited by wolfedawwg (12/05/16 08:17 AM)


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OfflineLosAndreas36
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: wolfedawwg]
    #23898805 - 12/06/16 01:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you. Do my jar looks contaminated?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23898818 - 12/06/16 01:49 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

When grains are sticking to the sides of the jars like that it is usually a sign of a bacterial infection.
I can not really tell from my seat, I'd wit for a TC to chime in.  I would reccomend updating your tek and ditch the vermiculite in the bottom of the jars, however, as I. Said I am far from an expert.
I wish you all the best with your attempt.
Dick


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: A.RichardTrickle]
    #23898834 - 12/06/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

A.RichardTrickle said:
When grains are sticking to the sides of the jars like that it is usually a sign of a bacterial infection.
Dick




True.
Wet spots and a lot of condensation are indices for bacterial contaminations.


An example of a massive bacterial contamination:


Another picture with signs of bacterial contamination:




The pictures you posted a week ago do not show signs of bacterial contamination. As others wrote you should still improve your technique. Can you post some new pictures?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: enlightenment]
    #23898899 - 12/06/16 03:30 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

i'm tired to say that water was JUST AFTER PC, and do you see water now? I don't. Just look the pics......i dont see any signs of contamination, but i want you guys to say your opinion. If you are so lazy so scroll up, here you go :


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23898906 - 12/06/16 03:35 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

---When grains are sticking to the sides of the jars like that it is usually a sign of a bacterial infection.

you want to say that i had bacterial infection just after PC, just before inoculation? are you serious mate?

Here is some new pics :


I dont see sticking grains, any other colours than brown grains and white rhizomophic myc. I did soaked grains, i did doulbe PC more than 90+ minutes, used UV lamp, lots of alcohol, i did everything sterile as i could in my conditions. Yes there is some water because of myc living there, but condensation is above myc and grain lvl , so it doesnt touch it. When i broke and cased my jar, i noticed only shrooms odor nothing else.


Edited by LosAndreas36 (12/06/16 03:43 AM)


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Offlineenlightenment
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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23898916 - 12/06/16 03:53 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

The growth looks good. The condensation on the top of the jars is normal because the mycelium growth produces some heat (Temperature difference inside;outside -> condensation). Keep us posted.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: enlightenment]
    #23898918 - 12/06/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for answer. I will post when jars are fully colonized, so just to make sure i dont have anything to worry about. Thanks again.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23899017 - 12/06/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Guys, one more quesiton. Scroll up, you see my container is kinda small for sgfc.. I'm going to drill holes as said above, put ceramsite on bottom. I dont have so much perlite and i dont have bigger conatiners...Will my way work? Its a lot better than aquarium without constant FAE


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23899212 - 12/06/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

A SGFC is based on a very "high" perlit layer. This at least restricts the size of the Tub.

You should at least have a 3" Perlit layer, better is 4 or 5 inch. If your Tub fits these layer with the possibilite to add trays above it and enough place for mushrooms to grow, you are ready to go. If not, you need a bigger tub.

If I were you, I'd use Perlit and not ceramsite


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23900480 - 12/06/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

What else can i make? Which chamber? I have no extra time and money. I have aquarium but there is no fresh air in it...


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23900531 - 12/06/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Then it's going to be quite difficult. You could look for a aquarium Tek, there are some. But you will have to fan a lot to maintain FAE. Or you can try Open Air grow, but this will need hell of fanning and misting.


If I were you, I would build a mini mono (look for pastys tek) and fruit Trays in it. Works absolutely fine and you can go for mono bulk afterwards with the same tub. With a mini mono you don't need perlit. But you will need Polyfil or Aquarium Filterwool, maybe you have it at home already.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23900542 - 12/06/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

AlCapone2k said:
But you will have to fan a lot to maintain FAE.




:lol: yeah like 24/7. got that much time to dedicate to fanning?

fanning doesn't supply fae


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Munchauzen]
    #23900602 - 12/06/16 05:18 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, but I think FAE is no problem in an open air grow :smile:

I wouldn't try that with cubes anyway. I did it with oysters and it worked fine, misting three times a day before first flush was enough.

I think if you don't have a tote big enough for a SGFC and you don't want to make a mono tub, you'll have the best chances with fruiting trays in a mono tub tote.


Regards


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23900616 - 12/06/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

I love fresh air lol


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: cronicr]
    #23900645 - 12/06/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I think you do. It was you who grew cubes open air, I just wasn't able to remember who was it. Now I remembered the Tits and it fell like scales from my eyes :laugh:


here you go OP: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21288129/fpart/1


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23902004 - 12/07/16 12:37 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Why i cant just do same as sgfx maybe just mist more often..ceramsite will keep moisture around 90 99 anyways.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23902017 - 12/07/16 12:47 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Fae would be fine because of holes..and moisture will come from mistinf and ceramsite on bottom with some water. I will mist walls and cakes daily for sure

I used aquarium with perlite or ceramsite almost no fae but still ready to go if you fan it. I woukd make holes so passive fae is going to be fine


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23902022 - 12/07/16 12:51 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

So wait, aren't you growing in rye jars? Why don't you just spawn to a mono/trays in mono?


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: Mad Season]
    #23902309 - 12/07/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Yep i grow in rye jars. I dont really know mono tek, i always used to grow just casings in fruiting chamber, and i was fine. Mad, tell me, do you think it won't work? Drill holes, ceramsite or perlite on bottom. Fresh air come in holes, and moisture come from perlite or ceramsite on bottom. Its a lot better than aquarium without holes, so i need to fan it 3-4times a day using newspaper lol.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23902379 - 12/07/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, it will be better than the aquarium, but I think you problem is, that your tote is too small for a proper fruiting chamber or an SGFC.

With a small tote like yours I would go for a tray grow in a mono, it is quite easy and if you decide to grow bulk monos in future, you will already have the tote to do so.


Regards


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23903165 - 12/07/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Well send me mono tek.

I know follow the tek, but i think that will work too. I dont have a lot money to buy good container, and also i live in small town, etc, hard to find stuff. If i will have my chamber drying out fast, i would mist or more often, that's all.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23903331 - 12/07/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Go for this tek:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21032606/fpart/1/vc/1


Instead of fillig the mono tub with bulk and spawn, you just stuff the holes with Poly and put the trays in there.


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: AlCapone2k]
    #23903972 - 12/07/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Ah i have already made casing...

Can i use polyfil as filter in hole?


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Edited by LosAndreas36 (12/07/16 03:41 PM)


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Re: Water in jars after PC [Re: LosAndreas36]
    #23904008 - 12/07/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, that's what the TEK sais :smile:


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