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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23860065 - 11/23/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"and the site gets plenty of anti white, anti muslim, anti-what the fuck ever
sentiment, the one that goes unaddressed is the anti white sentiment with liberals
saying things such as 'oh, your poor white privilege' which in it's self is racist"

seems like it. Agreed.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #23860076 - 11/23/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

... It is addressed tho..


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23860080 - 11/23/16 09:35 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

yes, it is.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #23860087 - 11/23/16 09:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Entirely beside the point. As long as you are a Nazi, you are a white supremacist because the ideology of white supremacy is inherent to being a Nazi.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Asante]
    #23860106 - 11/23/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There's that modern idea to the name, and then there is also strictly the fascism aspect. Where I think some people get confused is how you have to be both. Or even strictly fit into the idea of white supremacy and Jewish suppression, control, or even eradication.

The gang based neo Nazis fit the strict definitions.

The alt right does not.
They may want control, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.
They may be racist, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.


And I don't really see what it matters. Words are words. Alt right is still the alt right whether you want to acuuse them of being Nazis and Trump of being Hitler or not. Those words have been tossed around so much in the last decade it's hard to take them, or the people who use them, seriously.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23860111 - 11/23/16 09:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah Trump may have a fascist mentality, it's part of his personality, but until he overrides congress and state governments on everything and starts making racial laws, he's not Hitler.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: koods]
    #23860121 - 11/23/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Well it also depends on your definition. Not everyone in the Nazi party in Nazi Germany were racists.




Yeah the answer depends on your definition. If that definition is "a member of the Nazi party" then not all Nazis are racist. If you define Nazi in such a way that being a racist is a prerequisite, then "all Nazis are racist" becomes vacuously true. There is no need to know all Nazis to verify this (because, by the definition you're applying, anyone who isn't a racist can't possibly be a "real" Nazi).




During the war, in Germany, people joined the nazi party because It was dangerous not to. These people may have not been racist because their nazi membership wasn't necessarily based on ideology. Anyone who identifies as a nazi now is a racist.

This entire debate is ridiculous. Pris' argument doesn't have any merit because it's not an argument, it's trolling.



Yeah I guess Shiva's original statement implies people alive today. Still though, without everyone at least defining their terms, there isn't much room to move forward in a discussion like this. Pris hasn't provided a definition I don't think, so he's free to treat Nazis as this nebulous group of people out there in the world who must be surveyed individually before making any generalizations about their characteristics. It might not make for a very interesting discussion between him and anyone else though.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23860142 - 11/23/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
There's that modern idea to the name, and then there is also strictly the fascism aspect. Where I think some people get confused is how you have to be both. Or even strictly fit into the idea of white supremacy and Jewish suppression, control, or even eradication.

The gang based neo Nazis fit the strict definitions.

The alt right does not.
They may want control, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.
They may be racist, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.


And I don't really see what it matters. Words are words. Alt right is still the alt right whether you want to acuuse them of being Nazis and Trump of being Hitler or not. Those words have been tossed around so much in the last decade it's hard to take them, or the people who use them, seriously.




We'll, I think non racist people who identify as alt right need to denounce these white supremacists who are claiming the mantle of the alt right. The leader of the group that met in DC this past weekend says he's the founder of the alt right movement. This is an internal problem that they have, but if they aren't going to say they don't agree with the white supremacist who says he's alt right then it's fair to say that the alt right movement is a white supremacist movement.

Organizations like Breitbart, and it's former editor claim they are part of the alt right movement. Where are their denunciations?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #23860166 - 11/23/16 10:02 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Richard Spencer, the guy speaking in the video, literally claims to have coined the term alt-right--stop with the 'liberal media boo hoo', stop with the 'what about hitlery'--i don't give a fuck about your US partisan politics, and i'm not going to engage you in such a debate over whether the left or the right is to blame for neo-nazis being comfortable giving nazi salutes in public

This post is about discarding the alt-right label (which plays into their hands) and just calling them neo-nazis




The alt-right came into power because conservatives couldn't get any representation from the corrupt Republican Party, that has NOTHING to do with "neo-nazis". Don't confuse the two, it doesn't do any service to try and mix those two groups up.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: koods]
    #23860177 - 11/23/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
There's that modern idea to the name, and then there is also strictly the fascism aspect. Where I think some people get confused is how you have to be both. Or even strictly fit into the idea of white supremacy and Jewish suppression, control, or even eradication.

The gang based neo Nazis fit the strict definitions.

The alt right does not.
They may want control, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.
They may be racist, but I'd not say to a neo Nazi extent.


And I don't really see what it matters. Words are words. Alt right is still the alt right whether you want to acuuse them of being Nazis and Trump of being Hitler or not. Those words have been tossed around so much in the last decade it's hard to take them, or the people who use them, seriously.




We'll, I think non racist people who identify as alt right need to denounce these white supremacists who are claiming the mantle of the alt right. The leader of the group that met in DC this past weekend says he's the founder of the alt right movement. This is an internal problem that they have, but if they aren't going to say they don't agree with the white supremacist who says he's alt right then it's fair to say that the alt right movement is a white supremacist movement.

Organizations like Breitbart, and it's former editor claim they are part of the alt right movement. Where are their denunciations?




I think the alt-right movement is using the same tactic the left used in not denouncing the violent BLM's/Islamic rhetoric and actions.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Asante]
    #23860184 - 11/23/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Entirely beside the point. As long as you are a Nazi, you are a white supremacist because the ideology of white supremacy is inherent to being a Nazi.




You don't think many joined the Nazi movement purely for economic gain?  There are many motivations for joining a political organization, not everybody is a true believer.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Asante]
    #23860187 - 11/23/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Entirely beside the point. As long as you are a Nazi, you are a white supremacist because the ideology of white supremacy is inherent to being a Nazi.





as long as you are a muslim you must kill all homosexuals

as long as you are a christian you must stone the homosexuals to death


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23860229 - 11/23/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a funny joke!


What's worse than a nazi? A nazi apologist



Don't respect something that has no respect.
Don't sympathize with something that has no sympathy.
Don't understand something that has no understanding.
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours.
Fuck nazi sympathy!
Don't give them their freedom, because they're not going to give you yours!



The alt-right are neo-nazis.


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #23860294 - 11/23/16 10:56 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Wow this thread has really gone to shit. Yeah, for the record, I'm a conservative that is not a nazi apologist. I don't really see how its worth the time to make the case that not all nazis are racist. Even if that point is true, it seems like it misses the bigger picture.

My take on this situation is that the media is entirely in the wrong for blowing this up and associating this back to Trump and his core group of supporters, which I assure everyone, are not Nazis but real working Americans. There are fringe groups on both sides. For example, on the Left you literally have a video of a woman saying there will be casualties*. Plenty of examples of violent rioters destroying private property**. Another person was beat from their car, and their car was stolen***.

The liberal media covers these types of instances far less than an "alt-right" fringe group that had around 280 people attending that has existed for 8 years. I can't find the article I read with these numbers, but I saw a video and the amount of reporters was in between 70-80 for an event that had 280 people. There were also bet Where was the media before now?

The media is literally giving exponentially amount of attention than these people are worth. They are literally artificially creating this "alt-right" movement. I literally didn't even know what a "white nationalist" was. I had to look it up. My family is from the deep south. I know a lot of southern people. Never met a neo-nazi before. I've met plenty of racists of all colors, but never a neo-nazi of this alt-right movement.

Now they do interviews with Trump staffers and ask the same questions over and over again demanding different answers to the same question in an attempt to get a sound clip that might make Trump look like he supports this group. He doesn't want to give the group the time of day or the media attention because that's exactly what the group wants.

This extreme fringe group (and others like it) are playing the media like fools. They want the attention. The negative publicity just gets more people on their side. No different than ISIS recruiting naive americans and radicalizing them.

This whole thing is smoke and mirrors and just detracts from the real issue of improving our GDP, increasing jobs and wages, lowering taxes, increasing homeownership, fixing our failed immigration policy, and passing a trillion dollar infrastructure bill. People that buy into this kind of sensationalism (on both sides) are why we have moron politicians in office (again both sides).

* - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/people-have-to-die-anti-trump-protester-calls-for-violence-on-cnn/
** - http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/oakland-police-under-fire-for-breaking-up-violent-anti-trump-riots/
*** -


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: daytripper05]
    #23860301 - 11/23/16 11:00 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

This whole thing is smoke and mirrors and just detracts from the real issue of improving our GDP, increasing jobs and wages, lowering taxes, increasing homeownership, fixing our failed immigration policy, and passing a trillion dollar infrastructure bill. People that buy into this kind of sensationalism (on both sides) are why we have moron politicians in office (again both sides)




Why did you follow that up with links about violent liberals?


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: koods]
    #23860331 - 11/23/16 11:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Did you not read the post and see asterisk? Examples to prove my point. It wasn't meant to single out liberals or make the claim they are more extreme the right. Rather to illustrate how the media shows bias to amount of attention they give to a fake alt-movement rather than the things I menationed that are much more important. Does your reading comprehension suck that bad or did you just not read my entire post?


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: Asante]
    #23860339 - 11/23/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

to say that all oranges are citrus fruits requires you to know every orange





Donald Trumps complexion has effectively disgraced all oranges. :alientransform:


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: daytripper05] * 1
    #23860343 - 11/23/16 11:20 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

It's not fake when they're organizing and hosting panels at political conferences like the one Shivas.wisdom posted. Come on, stop ignoring the truth, particularly Prisoner#1 and Qman. You guys can hide your head in the sand as long as you want, but there is racism in America, and it is gaining attention and power thanks to Trump and his supporters.

The 'alt-right' displayed their true intentions at that panel in the video, and they are some fucked up individuals.

This is not a time to take a stance based on economics and your ego-routines, this isn't a power play between two ideologies: this day and age calls into question the very fundamental validity of calling this a free country. In a country where racist and xenophobic sentiments can be supported by the president elect, leading to acts of racism and hatred carried out in his name, and he doesn't do a damn thing to denounce it, then freedom is on the run.

Look at the people he has nominated for his cabinet and chief of justice: these are racist mother fuckers! Deny it all you want, but it's plain for anyone who has a shred of observational skills to see.


And furthermore, there is an ongoing battle between the landowning rights of an entire community of people, the Sioux, and a corporation which is attempting to build on their land illegally. The police have massed en force and are carrying out atrocious acts of aggression against the peaceful protesters, one girl's arm was nearly blown off by a concussion grenade.

And all you can do is say 'there's no such thing as the alt-right, it's obama's fault'. There's too much at stake to be so ignorant.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: daytripper05]
    #23860351 - 11/23/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I went to high school in a district that bordered the city in a tricounty area. It was a mix of poor city kids, rich suburban kids, and average/poor sticks kids.


All kids with slightly different perspectives that pick on one another for little more than being outside their own viewpoint.. And like with all instances of grouping there were individuals who played it up as much as possible, with their camo jackets and loud ass piece of shit trucks or their fancy Comoros and flittery jewelry and popped collars...

That's what I think of about the state of politics. For every one genuine extremist there's 50 nonextremests trying to fit in. And for every 1 such person there is 50 moderates. And for every 1 moderate there's half an outsider scratching their heads.
And those numbers are just about equal for the 2 largest opposing groups.


Which in my highschool was wannabe thugs and rednecks.


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Edited by CookieCrumbs (11/23/16 11:37 AM)


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OfflineMo.Sigh.Aw
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Re: Heil Trump! Heil our people! Heil victory! [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #23860366 - 11/23/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Agreed


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