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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#23890520 - 12/03/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ElCharrua said: Stamets, on GGMM, mentions that using chlorinated water to prepare grain spawn does not produce good results
what page is this in GGMM? I can see it mentioned in the agar section and preparing morel patches, but cannot see it in the grain spawn prep section.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: blackout]
#23899605 - 12/06/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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It seems that Stamets has no problem using bleach...
From GGMM, page 190:
"THE BLEACH BATH METHOD
Similar to the hydrated lime method, but household bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite) is used as a disinfectant. I recommend adding 5-67 cups of household bleach to 50 gallons of water. A basketful of chopped wheat straw is immersed. The straw is kept submerged for a minimum of 4 and no more than 12 hours. The straw is immediately inoculated..."
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#23899894 - 12/06/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Straw is not grain though. That sounds like he's inoculating the bulk substrate directly and growing/fruiting in the open air. That likewise sounds outdated at this point as grain -> bulk sub is a lot more fruitful/efficient than doing something such as that.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: krypto2000]
#23900154 - 12/06/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea.... that's chemical pasteurization And a poor method for straw anyway
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drake89
Mushroom Magnate



Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#23900202 - 12/06/16 03:05 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ElCharrua said: It seems that Stamets has no problem using bleach...
From GGMM, page 190:
"THE BLEACH BATH METHOD
Similar to the hydrated lime method, but household bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite) is used as a disinfectant. I recommend adding 5-67 cups of household bleach to 50 gallons of water. A basketful of chopped wheat straw is immersed. The straw is kept submerged for a minimum of 4 and no more than 12 hours. The straw is immediately inoculated..."
nothing wrong with this but hydrated lime is much cheaper and stinks less.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#23903926 - 12/07/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ElCharrua said: It seems that Stamets has no problem using bleach...
From GGMM, page 190:
He does have a problem with bleach, I gave 2 instances in GGMM where he warns against it, but neither were about grain spawn, which you claimed in the first post. It would be an idea to edit your first post and say it is not mentioned, I would not delete your original statments as it might confuse future readers which people later responded to, just add a note at the end.
If he does recommend against it for grain I still want to see it. He is already misquoted/mistranscribed enough on this site more than enough, without adding new bogus claims to it.
In fact it would make people have more interest in your method, as if some believe Stamets think your method is advised against they might not bother reading any further. But he apparently has not advised against it like you claim.
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Eywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper


Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,088
Loc: State of Confusion, Arkan...
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: blackout]
#23920827 - 12/12/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's going on is most of the chlorox becomes normal table salt, sodium chloride upon heating while the oxygen in it helps kill nasties. The fungus uses the chlorine from the chloride to make enzymes that it uses to digest bacteria and other stuff. If your water has just plain ole chlorine or bleach in it your'e fine, but if you have chloroamines in it that's a problem. That water disinfectant is so nasty it'll kill a friggin spider plant!
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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Pinpapa
Stranger than most


Registered: 09/01/12
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Do you agree chloramines are produced when interacting with grain?If so that seems like a problem.
-------------------- "This isn't the right thing to do , so let's go"
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer



Registered: 12/22/16
Posts: 5,270
Loc: Central EU
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: Pinpapa]
#23954545 - 12/24/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 1 month ago) |
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You know what? I would be worried about my HEALTH in the first place. Chlorinated organic compounds are generally NOT fun to ingest. Chlorine can react with the grain in all sorts of ways. Mushrooms may grow on it, but they might pick up some of the chlorinated stuff and that might not be good for you.
Just to make a point. Your health is more important than healthy mushrooms.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: Adas]
#24483222 - 07/14/17 04:19 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Darn, Boddisatha, isn't it a bitch when reality interferes with your pet theories? Some babies that survived Clorox.
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24483242 - 07/14/17 04:29 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Bummer, the pic that I cannot upload shows happy, healthy dung-loving guys.
(But Ol' Boddi is going to say that I'm making this up, because it challenges his Clorox misconceptions...)
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24483252 - 07/14/17 04:33 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24483261 - 07/14/17 04:36 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, it's kinda convoluted to post pics here, but I never complain about something that costs nothing. The babies in the first pic look weird because the top of the fruiting chamber was covered, but they got light from the sides, so they grew sideways.
The icing on the Clorox cake is the jar on the right, I misplaced it and never fruited it. After two months, you can see that the cake has exuded a lot of water, but absolutely no contamination. How many of your cakes would last two months without contamination?
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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Adas
Lonely Dreamer



Registered: 12/22/16
Posts: 5,270
Loc: Central EU
Last seen: 7 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24483287 - 07/14/17 04:44 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElCharrua said: How many of your cakes would last two months without contamination?
Any cakes that are fully colonized and not bacterial would last. While the mycelium lives, it won't contaminate.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: Adas]
#24483890 - 07/14/17 10:00 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Exactly. Hot chlorine gas is a bacterium or yeast's worst nightmare. And after an hour at 15 PSI, there none of it left. Win/win scenario.
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,876
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24484028 - 07/14/17 11:07 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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this thread gave me an moment, and i wanted to see if mushrooms can get high. it turns out that they probably can't, but a person might get high(or feel some effect anyway) if they ate enough fruit flies. Evolutionary origins of the endocannabinoid system just thought i would share that with the class. carry on.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24486315 - 07/15/17 11:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ElCharrua said: Exactly. Hot chlorine gas is a bacterium or yeast's worst nightmare. And after an hour at 15 PSI, there none of it left. Win/win scenario.
If you're doing cakes at 15 psi for an hour that's what sterilized them.
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ElCharrua
Reverend

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
#24496282 - 07/20/17 12:39 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, obviously 15PSI for an hour sterilizes the grain...usually. However, even Stametz warns us that some grain has a very high contaminants load.
My point is (and I'm going to say it slowly) "There is no downside in using chlorine as an adjunct to heat sterilization. The chlorine is completely gone after an hour at 15PSI, in the meantime creating the worst possible environment for yeasts and bacteria."
I don't mind people not liking Clorox. I do mind people saying: "Don't even think of trying this, because I say so, and I'm an expert."
If a website dedicated to entheogens cannot keep an open mind, I don't know who can.
-------------------- Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
#24496292 - 07/20/17 12:49 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post compelling results. Were very open minded to people with credibility. But post some bullshit methods and no results what do you expect
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afrekcan
Stranger



Registered: 07/12/14
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Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
#24496737 - 07/20/17 04:42 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Some are open minded, but many are simply dogmatic parrots. There is a fine line between the two.
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