Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleElCharrua
Reverend
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
Chlorine for sterilization.
    #23852876 - 11/20/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Stamets, on GGMM, mentions that using chlorinated water to prepare grain spawn does not produce good results.  My experience is exactly the opposite, I put 5 mL of Clorox (regular) on every half-gallon jar.

Chlorine has two positive characteristics: one, it's a powerful disinfectant, just 5 PPM kill bacteria and mold.  At the concentration I use (about 1 %, or 50,000 PPM) the grain is probably sterile even before heating it.  Two, chlorine has a very low boiling point, so at the temperatures achieved during sterilization all the chlorine will be gone after the run, while treating bacteria and molds to superheated chlorine gas, a microorganism's equivalent of hell.

Even the times when my inoculation was a bust and no growth happened, the jars remained for months without ever showing contamination.


--------------------
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.


Edited by bodhisatta (07/20/17 12:52 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebezevo
ACHUMA
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/14/16
Posts: 26
Loc: ZONE 5
Last seen: 5 days, 22 hours
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23852989 - 11/20/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

check  your  brewing  store  for  StarSan .. a great food grade sanitizer , very safe  easy to use.

not sure if this would work  for your purpose .  but its awesome for sterilizing ,jars  bottles tools ect


--------------------
I GROW CACTUS


Edited by bezevo (11/20/16 11:49 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedrake89
Mushroom Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bezevo]
    #23853463 - 11/21/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, no...


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: drake89]
    #23853568 - 11/21/16 08:40 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

First of all 1% is 10,000 ppm 50k ppm is 5%....

Bleach sanitizes not sterilise. Besides the inside of grain is what needs to be treated the outside being clean doesn't save you

And youre plain dead wrong about chlorine all boiling off

As to the second poster. Star San is fucking garbage. It is only for homebrewers. It has piss poor activity on yeast and molds and is an ok sanitizer against gram negatives. It's DDBSA and phosphoric acid. Widely regarded as an amateur sanitizer for noob brewers. Star San has no place in actual brewing let alone any where in mushroom growing

Star San barely is a sanitizer it absolutely does not sterilize anything
Likewise chlorine is a sanitizer it does not sterilize anything


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleElCharrua
Reverend
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23855900 - 11/21/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You're right about the concentration: 5 mL in 500 mL is 1%, or 10,000 PPM.

The inside of the grain is sterile, microorganisms live on the surface. In any case, the chlorine complements heat sterilization, not replaces it.

"Sterilization is using chemicals, temperature, gas and/or pressure to kill or inactivate all disease-causing bacteria, spores, fungi and viruses."  Last time I checked, chlorine is a chemical.

In what do you base your comment that chlorine survives 1 hour at 15 PSI?  Just boiling tap water for a few minutes eliminates the chlorine.


Edited by ElCharrua (11/21/16 10:46 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23856088 - 11/22/16 12:28 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm:
You must be trolling

Chemicals do not sterilize. Sterilization isn't what they teach most people in science classes.

There's different chlorine molecules like chloramine you cannot boil out as easily.
In a trapped system you cannot boil it off any way.

Easily put you didn't find out some new way of doing things. You just thought of the same thing most people who failed science class did



--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Edited by bodhisatta (11/22/16 12:35 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleElCharrua
Reverend
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23856414 - 11/22/16 07:30 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No, I'm not trolling.  I'm sharing a method that has served me very well for many years.  My sterilization technique using chlorine plus heat has batted 1.000, even though I don't soak or boil the grains.

Please check your facts: Clorox does not contain chloramine, so it IS easily evaporated.

You are proof that even on a Forum dedicated to entheogens there are people who cannot think outside of the box.


--------------------
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua] * 1
    #23856521 - 11/22/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:rockon:
If we didn't think out of the box there would be no progress

Chloramine is formed when chlorine in bleach reacts with organic material like well grains....

Endospores are embedded in the endosperm and not just on the surface. hence why we can't sterilise grain in 15 minutes at 15 psi like we can with liquids.

the USDA discounted hypochlorite surface sanitation of grains because of many reasons, the load of bacteria uses up the halogen quickly, contact with the chemical agent doesn't happen to all bacteria,molds,spores there's cracks crevices and even things like biofilms IE peptidoglycan layers that prevent contact.


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Edited by bodhisatta (11/22/16 11:07 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23856540 - 11/22/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Also you say you use 50,000 ppm or about 1% neither of which make sense

If I recall Clorox brand is 5.25% free chlorine by volume

So your pure bottle of bleach is 52,500 ppm
And say you use 1% clorox into water
Then you have ~525ppm once diluted


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedrake89
Mushroom Magnate
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/26/11
Posts: 4,168
Loc: TN
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23857277 - 11/22/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ElCharrua said:
No, I'm not trolling.  I'm sharing a method that has served me very well for many years.  My sterilization technique using chlorine plus heat has batted 1.000, even though I don't soak or boil the grains.

Please check your facts: Clorox does not contain chloramine, so it IS easily evaporated.

You are proof that even on a Forum dedicated to entheogens there are people who cannot think outside of the box.



15 psi also has a 100% success rate so, what is your point?


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewaleedss
Stranger
Registered: 11/28/16
Posts: 14
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: drake89]
    #23877605 - 11/29/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Bleach,h2o2,ozone and UV are good for outer surface and have nothing to do with inner spores.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleElCharrua
Reverend
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: waleedss]
    #23885635 - 12/01/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

In any case, adding Clorox has never affected negatively subsequent growth, so worst case scenario is that I'm wasting a teaspoon of Clorox per half-gallon jar.

For those who have contam problems after the usual 15 PSI for 1 hour, it's worth trying. It's certainly simpler than soak overnight or boil the grains.


--------------------
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23885665 - 12/01/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

the usual is 15 psi for 1.5 hours MINIMUM for quart sized jars of grains.
I do 2-2.5 hours at 18PSI with grain jars.

if you do grain bags you may need to go 3+ hours.

you likely will have problems if you only do 1 hour at 15psi with grain spawn.


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23886958 - 12/02/16 09:19 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

For those who have contaminant problems at 15psi for 1 hour I suggest 15 psi at an hour and a half :faceplam:. Bleach is a bad idea on so many levels. As others have said it's a closed system so your bleach isn't going to all boil off. That's likely why sometimes you have jars with no growth is bc the bleach stalls the myciliums growth. Best case your bleach does nothing. Worse case it inhibits the growth making them grow slower and then weaker when you do spawn them resulting in less fruits and an easier chance for competition to move in. Do not do this.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleElCharrua
Reverend
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 17
Loc: Punta del Este, Uruguay
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: krypto2000]
    #23887448 - 12/02/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Krypto, the only time I had growth problems was when I used syringes that were over a year ole.

Clorox has a very characteristic smell, one can smell it in tap water, that maxes out at 4 PPM.  I can assure you there's no chlorine smell on my grains.

Again, I have done this for years, and I can assure you that there have been no negative consequences. Look, I'm not long on Clorox futures, just sharing something that has worked for me.


--------------------
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinekrypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23887739 - 12/02/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Well maybe so, but do you think the bleach actually has anything to do with it? If you pc properly then they're sterile bleach or no bleach. If I pced improperly I simply wouls not trust the spawn to use, again regardless if there is bleach in there.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleamidogen
see you on the other side

Registered: 05/07/16
Posts: 1,782
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. *DELETED* [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23888571 - 12/02/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by amidogen

Reason for deletion: .


--------------------
The biggest trip of my life was realizing all of the events and actions described in posts made by this account were never real and had never actually happened, but were instead the delusional ramblings of a severely mentally ill human being. I just had to move on for my own good. I love you all.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: amidogen]
    #23888835 - 12/02/16 08:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Acid anionic sanitizers suck. The DDBSA does the killing the pH enables it. Many people assume it's the pH that does the killing. However yeast can be acid washed with phosphoric to 1.8 and lives just fine. Goes to show.

I would use a halogen based like iodine based. It does make hoses and plastic take a orange yellow color but interesting it is clogging uo those surfaces on a micro level making them easier to sanitize in the future.

Of course peroxyacetic sanitizer is best. Sometimes sold as an acid final rinse. It nearly sterilises surfaces like stainless. And as a no Rinse sanitizer I feel more safe about residual stuff from PAA than any halogen.



--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineArchaic
Revived
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/20/16
Posts: 16
Loc: The desert.
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: ElCharrua]
    #23889915 - 12/03/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Cool, my tap water reeks of bleach so maybe I should just use that instead of distilled? :P


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Chlorine for sterilization. [Re: Archaic]
    #23889919 - 12/03/16 08:31 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Municipal tap water is usually less than 1ppm.
Use it for what? It's good for washing your hands and misting that's about it

Instead of distilled? You shouldn't be using distilled for anything other than filling lead acid batteries and making spore syringes.

Distilled has no place anywhere else in mushroom growing


--------------------
Welcome to the Advanced Mycology Forum

Bod's Library    Article behind a paywall? I can try to get it for you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Using a .5 - 1% bleach solution to sterilize substrate? *DELETED* BigJohnson 1,705 8 08/05/17 09:11 AM
by bodhisatta
* Chlorine or Bromine ph strips? distortion 578 4 07/01/03 10:27 AM
by Anonymous
* sterilizing dry (or partially dry) grains and adding sterile water later
( 1 2 all )
blackout 6,147 27 11/27/09 02:19 PM
by dancefloordale
* No sterilization experiment klopshroom 1,329 13 05/27/03 02:46 PM
by Raadt
* Sterilize substrate better than pastuerize? megalomando 2,883 7 03/04/04 05:37 PM
by viscid
* Sterilizing manure - - have you tried it?
( 1 2 all )
Holydiver 16,889 29 01/09/06 09:01 PM
by Juan_del_Pueblo
* Methods of storeing a sterile tissue sample XxMuSHRooMHeaDxX 3,417 19 12/24/01 02:53 AM
by maxxjones
* Sterility dioze1 2,090 14 09/03/01 06:57 PM
by fuzzysquirelnuts

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
4,627 topic views. 0 members, 2 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 16 queries.