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OfflineJustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


Registered: 09/08/14
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Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds?
    #23848978 - 11/19/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I want to get off of some of these meds they are causing way too many problems..


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Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!



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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23849005 - 11/19/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Let's begin here:

1) What were the symptoms that cuased you to begin taking psych meds?
2) How intense/severe were they?
3) Were they manageable?
3.5) Was it YOUR choice to begin a psych med regimen?

4) Do you have any allergies you're aware of?

5) How much do you want to quit this poison? Is it a mere interest?

6) How old are you?

7) Do you have any other medical conditions?


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23849114 - 11/19/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
I want to get off of some of these meds they are causing way too many problems..




You have to figure out a way to stop expecting to use your medications.

This could mean you have to believe that you don't need the meds or that the disadvantages of the meds outweigh the benefits.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23849171 - 11/19/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Indian snake root not combine with alcohol as that can lower blood,pressure.  I kicked Meds for about 9 years and got into a lot of legal trouble.  Weed helped immensely but was not always around as a pnr.

If I was in a legal state. I guess I could think about having plenty of weed and Indian snake root.  Kicking the invega.  But psyche med withdrawal is awful!  Plus the only real motivation to stop the med is large ejaculate and psycadelics.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #23849265 - 11/19/16 05:05 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Kratom is supposed to be good for reducing opiate addictions so maybe it'd be useful to try out if you can find it.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23849687 - 11/19/16 07:27 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What types of medications are you currently taking, and how long have you been on?  What are the dosages?  Which script are you looking to ditch?

Have you ever tried herbal remedies?  What are you looking for in a natural supement?


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23849694 - 11/19/16 07:31 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Redirecting your energy and focus onto something other than a need for medication may be beneficial. Life is a try and fail and try and succeed system that you have to decide to beat.

If you want something done you will have to mostly rely on yourself.
I do believe weed alone is good for managing addictions as it can provide intermediate relief.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23849731 - 11/19/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes it's necessary to supplement in order to manage mental health.  Depression, bipolar, bpd, etc is not something you can 'will' yourself out of. Because it's not a physical ailment seen by eye, psychological disruption is commonly glazed over (especially for guys((suck it up))), dismissed despite a person being utterly debilitated. 

I like to compare it to a cancer patient, toughing out illness, suffering instead of accepting chemo treatment.

There is so much that factors into 'mental illness', and one size does not fit all.

I'd like to offer suggestions, but need more info if possible.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,812
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23849798 - 11/19/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Magic mushrooms, LSD and entheogens alike are the only medications that work at extending your expectations immediately but they're illegal so most people are scared of them and consider them bad.

You can will yourself out of these things by inhibiting your instincts and the fight or flight response with the anxiolytic properties of psilocybin containing magic mushrooms.

But hey some people swear SSRI's help them, for me they didn't help.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #23849822 - 11/19/16 08:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Again, I will reference the cancer patient who cannot will herself well.  If a brain is genetically deficient by various means, or does not function properly, intervention is necessary in order to preserve quality of life.

With respect, your post is drenched in stigma.

Also, certain mental conditions can be exasperated by introducing psychedelics, even weed.  It has nothing to do with legality but safety and harm reduction.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23849925 - 11/19/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Cancers are physical abnormalities or genetic conditions.

Sad thoughts are usually the result of behavioural patterns that lead to negative thought cycles and intense reactions as seen in bipolar patients.

If someone has a fucking cancer then of course medications can help but that doesn't mean they are necessary for everyone who experiences some form of depression or behaviour like bipolar tendencies.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly] * 2
    #23849959 - 11/19/16 09:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

No need to get riled up.  I think you are confusing being depressed with suffering from depression.. humongous difference.

Mental illness is most certainly genetically dispositioned, passed down through generations.  There is no contesting this medical fact.

I am all for the belief that changing thinking patterns can influence well being, but I believe your confusion lies in the misunderstanding that underlying conditions disable one from being able to do such.  There cannot be a way without a will.

In this day and age, with the information available- your stance conveys invalidation and ignorance. 

There's more to the eye, you know this.. but imagine how crappy suffering from cancer would be.. how would you feel if someone told you to 'snap out' of your affliction.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23849978 - 11/19/16 09:42 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

You have completely ignored everything I've said about entheogen use.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly] * 2
    #23850009 - 11/19/16 10:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Not really.  I agree, entheogen use can open up doors in the mind never known to exist, broaden horizons and allow a reset, if you will.

However, JFT may very well be withdrawing from a SSRI, or worse- having a MAOI in his system.  Your advocating potentially harmful measures.

Psychedelics can absolutely assist in changing someone's life for the better.. but there is also the possibility of a dormant psychiatric illness rearing its ugly head as a result.  You are advising potential ego death to a potentially unstable person.  Look no further than the majority of threads in this forum.  It is irresponsible to encourage someone to trip in response to brief mention of desire to discontinue pharmas, and affliction of 'way too many problems they are causing'.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23850014 - 11/19/16 10:07 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Invega is an antipsychotic, and a depot injection. That means he was probably involuntarily on it? Possibly? Not pointing any fingers, just saying this could be serious business.

The stuff is horrible though. It's Risperdal but even more effective at shutting down your emotional life because it releases slowly from the muscle over 2 weeks.

I would only come off it if you're not a threat to yourself or other people.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23850025 - 11/19/16 10:13 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

'Ego death' isn't an issue, the only issue is serotonin syndrome if he took a dose that was far too large.

Physically it isn't dangerous, psilocybin has an LD-50 near that of marijuana.

Quote:

Psilocybin: LD50 (median dose)‎: ‎280 mg/kg (rat)

THC: LD50 (median dose) 1,270 mg/kg (rat)



(aka. you would have to eat/smoke a dozen kilos)

I'm not advocating for recreational use of psychedelics, I'm advocating for therapeutic scenarios with professional monitoring but they are currently illegal in most countries.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinebeforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23850037 - 11/19/16 10:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's all good but there might be a substantial psychotic disorder if he's using Invega?


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisiblesudly
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Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: beforethedawn]
    #23850070 - 11/19/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think he said what he's using.

Either way entheogens like psilocybin aren't very effective if someone is using meds like SSRI's because they act to block the re-uptake of serotonin. That's what can also lead to serotonin syndrome with large doses.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



Edited by sudly (11/19/16 11:08 PM)


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Offlinebeforethedawn
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23850141 - 11/19/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Oh SNAP

I thought Morel Guy started the thread for some reason.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Registered: 12/14/09
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23850764 - 11/20/16 08:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
I want to get off of some of these meds they are causing way too many problems..




I'd also need more specifics about which medications, how long, symptoms you are experiencing, etc.

Then, I just may have some useful input, as this has been a thing in my life...


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23850781 - 11/20/16 08:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Trazadone 150mg, Geodon 160mg, Clonidine .2mg, Vistaril 200mg daily, Baclofen 50mg daily.. I'm fucked basically..


--------------------
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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23850827 - 11/20/16 09:04 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Trazadone 150mg, Geodon 160mg, Clonidine .2mg, Vistaril 200mg daily, Baclofen 50mg daily.. I'm fucked basically..




I'm gonna try not to laugh at that last part.

You should see the laundry list of shit I've been on, and successfully come off of man.  You're going to be just fine.

Out of all of these the most concerned are the Geodon and Baclofen, followed mildly by the Clonidine.

If you can tell me why you were prescribed these, and why you want off of them, it would make answering your question a lot easier.

Hydroxyzine (Vistaril) - I also have a script for these but don't take them often, and usually 25mg at a time.  I've read about some expected visual and auditory changes upon disrupt discontinuation for this one I recommend just bringing it down gradually for a week or so; I would look into Passion Flower tincture, but be sparing with the Passion Flower if you have a sensitive body; otherwise it's quite lovely.  Valerian tincture as well (I even know of a good organic double-extraction brand that I swear, does not taste bad; IDK how they did it) and this is great alongside the passion flower for anxiety and sleep.

Based on these medications I'd say you are a male in his youth/young adulthood who suffers from anxiety, depression, insomnia (probably anxiety related) and some form of mood disorder.

Heed my words:  Just because a doctor can identify these things; does not make them qualified to treat you with drugs they have never consumed themselves.

So, the geodon.  My guess is you didn't like feeling like a Zombie; like most people who stop taking anti-psychotics.  It's important to bring this one down gradually as well, despite the side effects.  Your brain will thank you for it.  Drink a lot of water (not the tap kind).

Baclofen is like, the weakest damn muscle relaxer ever.  I'd like to know if you have a specific condition for being prescribed this or if it was merely for comfort, often used by rehabs as a placebo drug/justification for not prescribing something stronger.

Clonidine, for blood pressure, also used for anxiety off-label is quite a safe drug at a .2mg dose, and there are plenty of naturals for that - Turmeric/Cardamom, even ginger, garlic and basil.  This can be managed through a healthy diet and exercise, in most cases.

Trazodone can be stopped/started anytime, if you were going to have a negative effect it would have happened already.  As a recovering insomniac; I advise you to only go in your bed if you're planning on sleeping (or having sex, or too sick to move or something) but never just lay there for hours trying to fall asleep, get back up and sit in a chair if you must, lay down only to sleep.  You'll condition your brain to getting used to this gradually, it really does work...

What is your diet/lifestyle like?


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23850912 - 11/20/16 09:36 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

the Geodon I tried tapering before and went into a huge withdrawal that lasted for months so they increased the dosage to 160 to manage. I reinstated the drug a week after my next cut to 40mg.  I cut from 80 to 60 in a month. the next month dropped to 40 and that night I lost my fucking mind.

Trazadone I take for sleep. Trazadone coming off of it messes with my stomach.

Clonidine makes me like my heart is racing out of control off of it.. But my blood pressure is really low during my withdrawal.

Baclofen, I was put on that for sleep at night. Ended up taking it throughout the day as it helped my muscle spasms and helped curb my anxiety but it's addictive physically like xanax. It feels similar to xanax withdrawal.. shaking.. feeling crazy.. lightheaded.. headache.. the shaking is the worst..


--------------------
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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23850925 - 11/20/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Trazadone has a metabolite that is so what psycadelic and illegal in parts of the world (the metabolite).  I thought the drug was sorta fucked up. Like almost tripping on something which it is.

I would just wean down the meds that are sorta stupid to take.  Also try to modify your behavior.


--------------------
"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23850927 - 11/20/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
the Geodon I tried tapering before and went into a huge withdrawal that lasted for months so they increased the dosage to 160 to manage. I reinstated the drug a week after my next cut to 40mg.  I cut from 80 to 60 in a month. the next month dropped to 40 and that night I lost my fucking mind.

Trazadone I take for sleep. Trazadone coming off of it messes with my stomach.

Clonidine makes me like my heart is racing out of control off of it.. But my blood pressure is really low during my withdrawal.

Baclofen, I was put on that for sleep at night. Ended up taking it throughout the day as it helped my muscle spasms and helped curb my anxiety but it's addictive physically like xanax. It feels similar to xanax withdrawal.. shaking.. feeling crazy.. lightheaded.. headache.. the shaking is the worst..




You can stop taking all of those, short of the Geodon, you need to taper carefully on that one.

Something important to take notice of is that many herbs and supplements can interact badly with pharms.  Always do a little research on Google, Drugs.com makes sure to list naturals as well but to be safe always check with multiple sources.

If your blood pressure is low, do not take Clonidine, at all.  You will not withdrawal.

If discontinuing Trazodone's only symptom is stomach upset, this is mild and I recommend just cutting your pills into quarters and working your way down on a PRN basis - the same goes for the Baclofen, which actually causes stomach-upset as a side effect.  Eat something small before bed, like a piece of bread.

The geodon is probably your biggest hurtle and is likely what is causing the more severe symptoms.  Trazodone makes some people edgy coming off of it as well, so just wean yourself down.

Passion Flower is like a natural Xanax; especially when mixed with Valerian, so much so that it can actually be habit forming so be careful with that; I'd research anything you intend to try for naturals against the pharms. still active in your blood.

What is your diet/exercise regime like?  Do you have any abnormal stressers to worry about while going through this, or do you have the option to pamper yourself a bit?

The rest may cause you discomfort but you're not in any threat of dying unless you have a disposition to suicide, in which case admitting yourself voluntarily to psych to detox is far wiser than going insane and ending up there against your will.  That is quite extreme though.


Edited by plurfekt (12/28/16 02:04 PM)


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday] * 1
    #23851560 - 11/20/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Trazadone 150mg, Geodon 160mg, Clonidine .2mg, Vistaril 200mg daily, Baclofen 50mg daily.. I'm fucked basically..





I am an herbalist.

What is your official diagnosis?

Please do not try to taper off your meds or adjust dosage without an extremely solid plan in place first. The ideal situation would be to find an integrative/functional medicine mental health professional who would be able to guide you through the process.


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: yogabunny]
    #23851752 - 11/20/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Borderline Personality Disorder.


--------------------
Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!



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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23851941 - 11/20/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Borderline Personality Disorder.




I also have BPD.  Diagnosed 8-9 years ago.

You appear to be in the earlier stages and still have a far stronger chance of enjoying your 20's, avoid addictive substances they tear people like us down a hell of a lot faster.

Best doctor I ever met described my life expectancy* to max out at 27.  I'm 27...


Edited by plurfekt (11/20/16 04:40 PM)


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23852039 - 11/20/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

What's a life dependency?


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23852051 - 11/20/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
What's a life dependency?




Lol, typo my bad.  I was out of it.

Expectancy*  As in, maximum projected amount of years I will survive due to having BPD.

This is not a death sentence, they've been wrong about -everything- so far.


Edited by plurfekt (12/28/16 02:05 PM)


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23853590 - 11/21/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Borderline Personality Disorder.





Do you do talk therapy?


--------------------


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: yogabunny]
    #23853727 - 11/21/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

yogabunny said:
Quote:

JustForToday said:
Borderline Personality Disorder.





Do you do talk therapy?




Having over 8 years of exp. with BPD (and other things) alone; I've had multiple treatment teams put together.  At one point consisting of over five types of providers, a primary care physician, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a dual-diagnosis counselor and neuropsych MD - also had an AA/NA sponsor and a naturopathic nurse/Herbalist on the side.

Out of all of them, I'd say the psychologist & naturopathic RN/Herbalist were the most useful, as they are medically educated but sort-of play the role of counselor, but I couldn't see that person as often due to all the heavy demand in behavioral health departments, and would defer to the counselor/herbalist who did not fully understand my condition.

So, perhaps a psychologist if you don't already have one.  I'm sure you are familiar with CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and things of that nature already, just sharing my experience with BPD treatment.

I'd heavily advise avoiding romantic relationships with women who have BPD; it seems like a match made in heaven and it ends like hell every time.  Yale psychiatrist who treated me once told me you can take two people with BPD and put them in a room with a thousand normies, and they will find each other every single time.  Interesting, if nothing else.  She said in her entire career I was the third person she'd ever met with the true condition (over 25 years in the field).

She also stated 10 years of solid "talk therapy" would be my only likely salvation.  I am not that big on talk therapy; but I did meet a counselor recently who's cool as shit, prick still can't return important phone calls though.

Find someone you -really- click with.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23853809 - 11/21/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

There really isn't very much good for BPD.  Likely it's one of the most self loathing destructive disabilities that exist.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: sudly]
    #23853852 - 11/21/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
No need to get riled up.  I think you are confusing being depressed with suffering from depression.. humongous difference.

Mental illness is most certainly genetically dispositioned, passed down through generations.  There is no contesting this medical fact.

I am all for the belief that changing thinking patterns can influence well being, but I believe your confusion lies in the misunderstanding that underlying conditions disable one from being able to do such.  There cannot be a way without a will.

In this day and age, with the information available- your stance conveys invalidation and ignorance. 

There's more to the eye, you know this.. but imagine how crappy suffering from cancer would be.. how would you feel if someone told you to 'snap out' of your affliction.





well said. Sudly should also remember that psychedelics aren't for everyone and may indeed exacerbate underlying mental health issues.






JFT, feel free to drop me a PM anytime about stuff like this, I've had my own dealings with meds and docs and am more than happy to talk if you want. However, perhaps we should revisit how things were before you started meds. Were things a lot more rocky then? if so, maybe it's best to stay on some kind of meds, though if you are having difficulties, there are others out there that may treat your conditons a lot better.

I think i mentioned CBD to you to help you out with anxiety and mood last time we talked, you should always check facts here, but i believe it will not interact with any of the medications you listed to me.

Also, one of your drugs was a gabaergic substance, adding in L-theanine may further reduce anxiety levels by indirectly increasing levels of GABA in the brain. It's a very calming substance and not well known for drug interactions either.

two of the best treatments for your condition however are cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectal behavioral therapy


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404]
    #23853910 - 11/21/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard good things about DBT for people in whom CBT failed with, it's more of an appropriate atmosphere-oriented therapy to my understanding, focuses on things more pertinent to our "self loathing" conditions, lol...what the fck.

Also important to note if you were diagnosed with BPD within 1 year of being actively addicted to drugs, your doctor is an idiot.  You cannot diagnose someone properly if they have underlying issues such as addiction going on, and they OFTEN DO.  My diagnosis in personality disorders has been changed five damn times, but BPD was one of the first, and the last to get hit with.  I guess I'll see what the 6th says in 2-3 weeks...

So it is very important to try to remember back to before you were on these meds and how you behaved and interacted with the world; because you are not you on Geodon, not to mention..BPD is falsely diagnosed all the damn time, my step-father even got hit with it recently and I know for a fact he is not borderline, seemed like a convenient way for them to prescribe more/stronger drugs.

Best of luck, this is not a death sentence.. you ever need to talk with someone with true BPD, feel free to PM me.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404]
    #23854103 - 11/21/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:

well said. Sudly should also remember that psychedelics aren't for everyone and may indeed exacerbate underlying mental health issues.

JFT, feel free to drop me a PM anytime about stuff like this, I've had my own dealings with meds and docs and am more than happy to talk if you want. However, perhaps we should revisit how things were before you started meds. Were things a lot more rocky then? if so, maybe it's best to stay on some kind of meds, though if you are having difficulties, there are others out there that may treat your conditons a lot better.

I think i mentioned CBD to you to help you out with anxiety and mood last time we talked, you should always check facts here, but i believe it will not interact with any of the medications you listed to me.

Also, one of your drugs was a gabaergic substance, adding in L-theanine may further reduce anxiety levels by indirectly increasing levels of GABA in the brain. It's a very calming substance and not well known for drug interactions either.

two of the best treatments for your condition however are cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectal behavioral therapy





I am finding in my work that essential oils/aromatherapy are also really effective for mood management and emotional balancing. I've been using and studying essential oils for almost nine years, and in the past year I have been going pretty deep with it.

They work very subtly yet profoundly on the Limbic system, specifically the Amygdala, which is stimulated ONLY through the sense of smell, and plays a major role in the storing and processing of emotions.

So the premise is that essential oils/aromatherapy can help enable us to access stored or forgotten memories and "undigested" emotions so that we can acknowledge, integrate and release.

I think the essential oils high in sesquiterpenes would be best in this case as they are the ones that cross the blood brain barrier. Cedarwood and Sandalwood, for example. They are known to be calming to the nervous system as well as anti-inflammatory.

The other reason essential oils are effective are because the molecules are really small and lipid soluble. They're able to penetrate the skin AND cell membranes very quickly for a true healing from the inside out at a cellular level.

They have helped me enormously and I do know people who have gotten off antidepressants with them.

Also would recommend looking into Yoga Nidra, OP!

:bunnypeace:


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: yogabunny]
    #23854532 - 11/21/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I just got into a full swing with essential oils myself; and I find aromatherapy far superior to say, acupuncture which I've also had the displeasure of experimenting with.

I -love- Lavender for it's calming effects and I'm an extreme fan of Palmarosa, and Lime.  Blending the three is the smell of me lately - it used to be Acqua Di Gio by Armani lol :P

Sometimes just the feeling of being natural is enough to have a profound psychological effect, whether physiological or psychosomatic - it just works, and while I was skeptical at first coming from a world of excessive western medicine, I do notice physical effects and often immediately.  I'm investing into an essential oil still to start producing my own when I launch my naturopathics business which was primarily tinctures and raw herbs/fungi until now, and I'm expanding into facial creams and things of that nature as well.

Definitely recommend you get some Lavender OP, it's one of the most common essential oils; and with good cause.

Ever need a northern forager to do you some favors Yogabunny, let me know.  I supply a local herbalist and am always enjoying branching out to help others, this seems to be one of the most effective methods for me to deal with my BPD and other co-morbid conditions such as addiction, depression, anxiety.

<3


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23856419 - 11/22/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Again, I will reference the cancer patient who cannot will herself well.  If a brain is genetically deficient by various means, or does not function properly, intervention is necessary in order to preserve quality of life.

With respect, your post is drenched in stigma.

Also, certain mental conditions can be exasperated by introducing psychedelics, even weed.  It has nothing to do with legality but safety and harm reduction.




There are very few instances where a brain is "genetically deficient" or "doesn't function properly". Genetic predispositions definitely play a role in all diseases but environment is the ultimate determinant. In many psychiatric illnesses, as in the majority of chronic illnesses, the relationship between parasitic organisms and chronic inflammation is increasingly being illuminated as a causal factor. For example, a major one of interest in the psychiatric field is toxoplasma. Given that positive and negative affect, sunlight, diet, sleep quality, exercise, etc  all heavily influence immune regulation willing yourself back to health is not just a vague concept but a mandatory part of getting well. Of course intervention can be necessary too. I ultimately agree with you on the safety of psychedelics and all that and that it should be treated as a true medical issue and not a vague feeling of sadness. But i don't like the perpetuation of the idea that diseases are unavoidable and necessarily need technological intervention. The fraction of diseases that result from "dysfunctions" as opposed to collapses in internal ecosystem dynamics is truly miniscule. Furthermore, the quality of intervention is contingent on this understanding otherwise it's likely to be unsustainable and only suppress symptoms. This applies to the cancer patient as well. Cancer is certainly characterized by genetic abnormalities but it is by no means a genetic illness.

Not an herbalist so take my word with a grain of salt but of particular interest to me for neurological issues is chinese skullcap. Proceed with caution. Also i'd suspect that some sort of immune modulating agent like astragalus could be helpful. But herbalism is a very complex art and I would strive to visit a qualified professional rather than take advice willy nilly. Of course, sometimes it's all we can do. But most herbs really shine in the context of well designed formulas and lifestyle modifications as opposed to being standalone treatments.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23856477 - 11/22/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

plurfekt said:
Sometimes just the feeling of being natural is enough to have a profound psychological effect, whether physiological or psychosomatic - it just works, and while I was skeptical at first coming from a world of excessive western medicine, I do notice physical effects and often immediately.  I'm investing into an essential oil still to start producing my own when I launch my naturopathics business which was primarily tinctures and raw herbs/fungi until now, and I'm expanding into facial creams and things of that nature as well.

Definitely recommend you get some Lavender OP, it's one of the most common essential oils; and with good cause.

Ever need a northern forager to do you some favors Yogabunny, let me know.  I supply a local herbalist and am always enjoying branching out to help others, this seems to be one of the most effective methods for me to deal with my BPD and other co-morbid conditions such as addiction, depression, anxiety.

<3





That's awesome that you're getting your own still! I am actually a rep for the brand I use, and I'm going to Nepal in May to check out our Wintergreen operation and help with Earthquake relief/rebuilding through our Charity.

Where in the north do you forage, and what kind of plants?

Quote:

Not an herbalist so take my word with a grain of salt but of particular interest to me for neurological issues is chinese skullcap. Proceed with caution. Also i'd suspect that some sort of immune modulating agent like astragalus could be helpful. But herbalism is a very complex art and I would strive to visit a qualified professional rather than take advice willy nilly. Of course, sometimes it's all we can do. But most herbs really shine in the context of well designed formulas and lifestyle modifications as opposed to being standalone treatments.




Really well put!!!


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: yogabunny]
    #23856542 - 11/22/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I speak from experience.

Also, you are going to want to be really careful mixing Scuttelaria lateriflora (Skullcap) with Geodon, Hydroxyzine, and Trazodone - the increased drownsiness and dizziness associated with all three could be unpleasant, or it could be the "good" kind like I find in Valerian/Passion Flower.

Since you are going to taper, I wouldn't advise that until most if not all of the drugs have left your blood.  Skullcap, especially in conjunction with other herbs is a great substance but can be less forgiving than other herbs.  Same with say, St. Johns Wort - I've had terrible reactions to that one while tapering off psych meds, and I'd never had a bad reaction to an herb including St. Johns Wort prior to that.

As with any medication, if you are going to try mixing herbal supplements with these pharms, start with a low dose, miniscule even.  Also, do not use dirty cheap brands - always stay organic and with reputable brands.

That being said, there is a great deal of stigma against BPD.  I'm not saying this is right, at all - quite the contrary.  It's simply the truth of societies current viewpoints via the masses.  It's still not a death sentence (or even a proper diagnosis often times), it just means that the greater population lacks any and all understanding of what this condition really is, or how to deal with it as a problem, or interact with the people whom have it.  This results in BPD patients having to search for those who do understand in order to get help, and they are few, but they are out there.

Thanks yogabunny; it seems like a great hobby/resource if nothing else - sounds like you greatly enjoy your involvement and that's always a motivator.  I've always wanted to do this type of volunteer work; but I'm too mentally ill to be a pillar for others; I seem to function better on the edge of society, or just... with my dog in the woods, still - I try to find ways to do good when I can, my disgust for the human race is paralleled with my love for the human condition... world is full of ironies; I've always dreamed of working with Stamets as a volunteer/pupil; but I'm sure he has people lining up for that more qualified than myself.  I hope Japan will be alright after the earthquake they just had; raises nuclear concerns as well due to tsunamis along Fukushima, with a LOT of radiation already found along the west coast of the US.  Can be a defeating feeling, that the wicked are killing this planet faster than we can heal it, and people are killing each other faster than we can educate them to love.

I forage primarily along the Mississippi River Minnesota-Wisconsin border, started out with an instinct & luck for finding Chaga, and since I forage pretty much anything I can find and convert to food or medicine (I'm usually tracking down Turkey Tail, Reishi, Oyster, Birch polypores, Ginseng, Chamomile, etc - eyes peeled for things of current demand while out there).  Once in a while I travel to Northern MN and the UP Michigan as well - but my area only has a handful of naturopath-types who forage and is relatively untouched; and I am always striving to find new and interesting things to forage/cultivate.  Here's one reference for some typical indigenous herbs not too far from here (although there is much more out there) - Janesville Area Herb Society.  Right now I have some demand for Turkey Tail and I know where a lovely blue variety grows quite abundantly.

I go for the rare ones; or expensive ones to cultivate or purchase typically.  Have several unharvested Chaga sites located and a handful I've been allowing to regenerate.  Harder to find on true white birch (I have a couple sites for that in the bluffs) but I find it all over on River birch.  I've noticed no real difference, honestly.  I plan on having them each lab tested to see the variations.

I recommend Chaga -for everyone- (except people taking antibiotics, because it will overpower them via its anti-fungal properties)

The herbalist I work with here typically uses me for fungi demand and knowledge, but it's not like herbs are beyond my reach - she just has loads of them, if anything I'm looking for specific requests as I stumble on all kinds of stuff - literally cannot carry it all back with me when Chaga harvesting and I'm not weak, esp. in peak condition.

I still haven't heard enough about the OP's underlying issues, physical health, diet & exercise regimen, & etc; hasn't even stated why he wants off the meds beyond "they are causing too many problems." - so no one here can give accurate advice like that of an ND ; in this thread I would say Yogabunny is most qualified though.  We can merely answer the questions to the best of our ability based on the information given.  As a person with BPD who has been on almost every psych med known to mankind, I can tell you that while medications/herbal supplements can be helpful, I can also tell you the consequences of mixing psych withdrawal and untested herbs could be more damaging than dealing with it naturally.  In my case, it was.  I even took supplements I was familiar with and bang, instant horrible side effects out of nowhere.

OP, what's your position on cannabis?  When not going through benzo withdrawal - and I'm still so tempted to retest that status quo, I find it to be the safest and most helpful herb out there.  Pairs lovely with Valerian and Passion Flower, Lavender essential oil, and Chaga.  I say give your body and brain the best nutrition possible so your brains neuroplasticity/ability to heal is at full function, and you will regenerate faster with immune boosting supplements and adaptogens in your system, as well as the immediate absorption* of macro-nutrients.  The brain has an amazing ability to regenerate from both organic and inorganic damage, or I simply wouldn't be here.

Anyone else notice Shroomery's spell-checker sucks, lol..  Probably one of the only functions on here that drives me nuts, flags correct words as incorrect and has me questioning my vocabulary, like "wut!" ; never hurts to Re-google definitions and proper spelling of words, but can get excessive.

This reminds me to call my local herbalist and set up a meet; she doesn't even know I'm back in town... been meaning to tell her some seeds she traded me for Chaga a while back won my nephew the science fair (well, actually it was my veg cab design, but I couldn't source seeds locally last winter due to my nearby nursery going out of business - sad day for me).  We always have great talks but she's a busy woman and time is money, and I'm not big on paying out of pocket for consults.


Edited by plurfekt (11/22/16 09:39 AM)


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23856708 - 11/22/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I read someone here on the shroomery knew somebody that went into a coma.  Mixing skullcap with benzos.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #23856771 - 11/22/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Morel Guy said:
I read someone here on the shroomery knew somebody that went into a coma.  Mixing skullcap with benzos.




I don't doubt it.

I just spoke with my Herbalist friend and if she can find one other committed participant (needs a handful to devote the time, which is why it hasn't been done thus far) I'll be going in for my 9-month Herbalist certification program as well as helping educate her a bit more in mycology.

Her over the phone advice in reference to this thread was quite clear:  While she was tempted to make suggestions for the OP as we have, this is really something you should take to an ND or certified Herbalist / other form of naturopathic professional, and largely due to missing gaps in information like diet, patient history, and etc.  You would setup a personalized plan and work together to figure out what is best for you, with a consent to release information form signed for your western-medicine providers (PCP, Psychiatrist, etc) so they can speak between each other and make educated judgement calls.

Looks like I'm going to get my certification in 2017, finally.  Assuming I live that long, ofc.


Edited by plurfekt (11/22/16 10:13 AM)


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23857087 - 11/22/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if that was in response to me but Scutellaria lateriflora (American skullcap) and Scutellaria baicalensis (Chinese skullcap) are totally different herbs. Of course i would still be cautious with anything which is why i recommended a professional herbalist. If i'm not mistaken Chinese skullcap can act as a synergist to other drugs making them potentially dangerous.

I've never heard that BPD decreases lifespan. Do you know why?


Edited by JacksonMetaller (11/22/16 11:50 AM)


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #23857179 - 11/22/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

lateriflora is what you would seek for herbal medications or "true skullcap" if I'm not mistaken, it's often the wrong type of herb put into remedies/tinctures/tablets.

Many people with BPD kill themselves (About 10%).  Others just have extremely impulsive and reckless behavior that leads to death, among other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday] * 1
    #23857225 - 11/22/16 12:40 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I wasn't on what you were on exactly but I found taking one zinc supplement tablet every few months was a great boost.

Other things to try:
  • Walking for several hours a day.
  • Spend time in nature
  • Visit new places, try to navigate around the place yourself.
  • Listen to music
  • Meet new people
  • Find a cause to support/promote.  Political, social, environmental - something you feel passionate about.
  • Eat plenty of fresh vegetables.
  • Take up painting or drawing.  Don't worry about whether you have any talent, the process off creating is what helps.
  • Don't smoke tobacco.  Quit if you do.
  • Laugh. 



None of this will fix everything overnight, time is the bigest healer.  After 18 - 24 months you should feel a lot better.


Edited by Electric Toaster (11/22/16 12:51 PM)


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #23857429 - 11/22/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I'm open to the idea of certain holistic treatments helping people and all, but not without proper peer-reviewed documentation to back it up... So i remain very cautious and wary of stuff like this, and OP should too. Telling someone to drop all their medical treatments for lavender oil because of anecdotal evidence by their own peers, or by peers of their peers is medically and ethically unsound advice.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404] * 2
    #23857547 - 11/22/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Buddy, trained biochemist here. Peer-review is great but you can suffer a long time waiting for it to catch up with traditional herbalism. Herbal medicine is validated over and over and over again in the lab and there's just very little interest in funding appropriate clinical research. Nor is it necessarily applicable given the non-generalizability of these illnesses. No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.

Plur, they are two different herbs. Both medicinal. But very different


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #23857590 - 11/22/16 02:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Buddy, trained biochemist here. Peer-review is great but you can suffer a long time waiting for it to catch up with traditional herbalism. Herbal medicine is validated over and over and over again in the lab and there's just very little interest in funding appropriate clinical research. Nor is it necessarily applicable given the non-generalizability of these illnesses. No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.

Plur, they are two different herbs. Both medicinal. But very different




Only one is traditional ("American") Skullcap, like the one used for the purposes discussed, which was my point in identifying its latin name.


Source - WebMD

"Skullcap products are not always what the labels claim. The plants germander and teucrium are often unwanted and unlabeled ingredients in skullcap products. Secondly, you may think you are buying Scuttelaria lateriflora, the species of skullcap that has been studied for medicinal use, but the product may contain a different species of skullcap instead. The most often substituted species are Western Skullcap (Scuttelaria canescens), Southern Skullcap (Scutellaria cordifolia), or Marsh Skullcap (Scutellaria galericulatum). These species contain different chemicals, so they are not considered interchangeable."

Also, before you go judging what I say, read all of it.  I never told him to stop taking all his meds and to just switch to lavender oil, if you don't want to follow the thread perhaps you shouldn't chime in, as I've clearly put time into my responses and even picked up the phone to an Herbalist/RN and talked the subject over for the OP ; which simply brought about the same conclusion as we'd already discussed as medically appropriate and responsible.

If he wants to proceed despite that, I'd say what I've told him is a good reference/first hand experience accounting, because I have actually lived through it; including every single drug he's coming off of, and am actually diagnosed with BPD.  If you feel that is out of line, well, let's hear your advice without repeating something that has already been said multiple times in this thread.  "Stop taking them all and switch to Lavender" - Exaggerate much?

FYI - Lavender is great.  And yes, even that can have drug interactions.

Sorry if I'm moody, but I hate repeating myself and having BPD, I have my own problems ofc - due to it being rare this was me trying to look out for someone else suffering from what I suffer from, and since I've made it this far, maybe I have some input to offer.

Or not, this is a web-forum after all, and I leave this entirely up to the OP to decide, who is probably wise to most of this conversation already, I'd naturally assume.

He's going to be fine, it's just a rough process, but he WILL be fine, and it's important the OP hears that, esp. w/ BPD and having a rough time emotionally/psychologically, something I can definitely relate too.


Edited by plurfekt (11/22/16 04:51 PM)


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt] * 1
    #23858099 - 11/22/16 05:17 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

One of us is misunderstanding the other. Chinese skullcap (scutellaria baicalensis) is a TCM herb that has nothing to do with American skullcap nor its sedative properties. I repeat, no relation at all. It is not an unwanted mix to American skullcap. It is not related or confused with it. It is a different herb from a different land where it is traditionally used . I don't recall it's full range of use but my interest was more in its diverse neuroprotective, antiinflammatory, antimicrobial effects. Not the nervine qualities of lateriflora


Edited by JacksonMetaller (11/22/16 05:19 PM)


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller] * 2
    #23858151 - 11/22/16 05:38 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Buddy, trained biochemist here. Peer-review is great but you can suffer a long time waiting for it to catch up with traditional herbalism. Herbal medicine is validated over and over and over again in the lab and there's just very little interest in funding appropriate clinical research. Nor is it necessarily applicable given the non-generalizability of these illnesses. No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.






>>buddy

that is typically something used when someone takes some level of offense in a sense, especially when the two conversing parties aren't known to have any sort of pre existing friendship. I didn't mean to upset you with what i said, but peer-review is not only 'great' but how we base and build upon knowledge and check methods for errors and discrepancies that could otherwise skew the results with non-factual data. However, if you do in fact have any research on hand that supports herbal remedies that could treat OP's disorder, i would genuinely love to see some of it as i'm not currently aware of any empirical data that supports herbal supplements as a treatment for his in particular. I'm sure there are some out there that could ease the anxiety and depression, and would personally love to see those.

>>No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.

these are two conflicting statements, you say you are not supporting him to drop his meds, but then go on to say you are in support of him doing something different which inherently means stopping his current meds. not trying to stir anything up, it just doesn't compute for me.


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #23858172 - 11/22/16 05:47 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
One of us is misunderstanding the other. Chinese skullcap (scutellaria baicalensis) is a TCM herb that has nothing to do with American skullcap nor its sedative properties. I repeat, no relation at all. It is not an unwanted mix to American skullcap. It is not related or confused with it. It is a different herb from a different land where it is traditionally used . I don't recall it's full range of use but my interest was more in its diverse neuroprotective, antiinflammatory, antimicrobial effects. Not the nervine qualities of lateriflora




I agree with what you are saying 100%

Where you are losing me is that I identified the latin genus for American Skullcap, which I believe was what one of the recommendations was for.

Upon cross-referencing Skullcap (American) with his medications for known side effects to be more informative/do some leg work for him, I noted that due to Skullcap having a variety of subgenus counter-parts which you are right, are completely different herbs that also have medicinal value.

Important as well, is that when tablet manufacturers or low-grade tincture producers make these substances (usually in combination with other herbs in things like 'relaxing blends' they use the wrong kind (including substances that are not any form of Skullcap as stated on WebMD); which is a big No No and something to look out for when looking for a quality product.  This was my attempt at harm reduction, I should have explained it more thoroughly - I'd just mentioned the importance of going organic and using reputable brands.

I apologize for any moodiness, but in my defense, I'm BPD on a Xanax taper and I live with a mean old senile bastard I have to clean up after while I'm sick - and it's getting very old... :facepalm:

It was only my intention to help, and sometimes the way I word things works against me.

I still stand by dropping the Clonidine if he has low blood pressure, but it's not like I'm taking his BP myself every 2 hours like they would in a medical detox setting, which really is what the OP very well may need if he's having complications serious enough to compare to genuine Xanax withdrawal.  I did not experience any withdrawal coming off Geodon or Trazodone and Hydroxyzine's symptoms were short-lived.  Everyone's chemistry is different as is their story.

Hopefully that clears up the confusion, at least.  I mean no disrespect although it was slightly offensive that someone literally took my advice to the OP as "Quit them all, use Lavender" lol... 404 seems to be the one complicating the fact that we have all advised the OP to do this in a proper medical detox setting under the care of professionals, but the OP is still seeking out information all the same.  Clearly, 404 has little experience with this sort of thing first-hand, as many people are forced to taper off without the help of professionals due to their situation and side effects/personal beliefs and desires.

Ultimately, it's up for the OP to decide what he wants to do...and debating semantics is not helping answer his question.


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23858398 - 11/22/16 07:06 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

plurfekt said:
lateriflora is what you would seek for herbal medications or "true skullcap" if I'm not mistaken, it's often the wrong type of herb put into remedies/tinctures/tablets.

Many people with BPD kill themselves (About 10%).  Others just have extremely impulsive and reckless behavior that leads to death, among other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder




I used to fear someday I might actually kill someone over something so stupid but now i'm that actually working a program the thoughts easing.. Also sometimes I would be standing near the corner of a busy road and dare myself to jump in front a high speed moving truck. I don't know what holds me back. It's not fear. Maybe I feel like i'll be missing something If I die too early.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23858416 - 11/22/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:

I used to fear someday I might actually kill someone over something so stupid but now i'm that actually working a program the thoughts easing.. Also sometimes I would be standing near the corner of a busy road and dare myself to jump in front a high speed moving truck. I don't know what holds me back. It's not fear. Maybe I feel like i'll be missing something If I die too early.




I still fear this regularly, but will never be honest about it in a psych facility.  Programs have been helpful, but I always find a way to turn things into disasters socially.

I, too have done the bus thing... as well as standing on the edges of cliffs.

This is normal.  Well, for us.

Life is a trip..and having been dead before @ 23 years of age - I can tell you we're all headed to the same place eventually anyways, may as well enjoy the show... Hard to cope with that on the really difficult days, but remember the upside to being borderline... we feel all the good things more intensely too!

Keep your head up man... it's hard as hell and I suck at taking my own advice, but it is doable, and can get better.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404]
    #23858426 - 11/22/16 07:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Buddy, trained biochemist here. Peer-review is great but you can suffer a long time waiting for it to catch up with traditional herbalism. Herbal medicine is validated over and over and over again in the lab and there's just very little interest in funding appropriate clinical research. Nor is it necessarily applicable given the non-generalizability of these illnesses. No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.






>>buddy

that is typically something used when someone takes some level of offense in a sense, especially when the two conversing parties aren't known to have any sort of pre existing friendship. I didn't mean to upset you with what i said, but peer-review is not only 'great' but how we base and build upon knowledge and check methods for errors and discrepancies that could otherwise skew the results with non-factual data. However, if you do in fact have any research on hand that supports herbal remedies that could treat OP's disorder, i would genuinely love to see some of it as i'm not currently aware of any empirical data that supports herbal supplements as a treatment for his in particular. I'm sure there are some out there that could ease the anxiety and depression, and would personally love to see those.

>>No one is telling OP to drop his meds. But like many of us he is coming to the conclusion he'd rather try something different and I'm in full support of that.

these are two conflicting statements, you say you are not supporting him to drop his meds, but then go on to say you are in support of him doing something different which inherently means stopping his current meds. not trying to stir anything up, it just doesn't compute for me.




I am very very familiar with the scientific process. However, the lack of generalizability in these illnesses poses serious limitations on peer review regarding treatment. That can be aided with the extensive historical documentation and mechanistic studies that help us understand how to apply herbs on a patient specific basis. I am not up to speed on BPD which is why I have not made any specific recommendations. I can't validate or criticize what others have recommended. It just needs to be stated that herbalism is a sophisticated art that goes way beyond conventional peer review in the west and it's not exactly helpful to attack it on that basis. A bit like criticizing the Beatles for not abiding by classical theory. One is an art. One is a science. They are best when they augment one another

And being supportive and telling him to stop are two different things. One can validate someone's decision and aid them without influencing their initial choice. OP asked us for herbs. OP said he wanted to stop meds. We did not encourage it. But we understand it. We support that choice. See the difference?

Plur I didn't realize anyone recommended American skullcap. I still can't find it so I assumed you were responding to me who said Chinese. Whatevs :lol: glad it's cleared


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OfflineMorel Guy
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #23858436 - 11/22/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Skull cap is like a benzo and those I hear are bad for BPD.

Learn lessons from this life.  Some people with BPD grow out of it.


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23858450 - 11/22/16 07:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

plurfekt said:
Quote:

JustForToday said:

I used to fear someday I might actually kill someone over something so stupid but now i'm that actually working a program the thoughts easing.. Also sometimes I would be standing near the corner of a busy road and dare myself to jump in front a high speed moving truck. I don't know what holds me back. It's not fear. Maybe I feel like i'll be missing something If I die too early.




I still fear this regularly, but will never be honest about it in a psych facility.  Programs have been helpful, but I always find a way to turn things into disasters socially.

I, too have done the bus thing... as well as standing on the edges of cliffs.

This is normal.  Well, for us.

Life is a trip..and having been dead before @ 23 years of age - I can tell you we're all headed to the same place eventually anyways, may as well enjoy the show... Hard to cope with that on the really difficult days, but remember the upside to being borderline... we feel all the good things more intensely too!

Keep your head up man... it's hard as hell and I suck at taking my own advice, but it is doable, and can get better.




Damn someone who understands me.. Heart break was the worst thing i've ever been through idk why I didn't off myself.. I wonder how she is doing.. I hope she is okay.

I act like i'm perfectly okay when I see a psych doc. If they ever try to put me in the psych ward i'll act like I have gun then they'll shoot me i'm not going back there..


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23858495 - 11/22/16 07:36 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

<< Blames the Xanax :facepalm3:

Indeed, it is cleared :P

And I much agree support and chemicals are two very different things, and should be augmented together for maximum healing potential.

In regards to BPD being cured/diminishing, most personality disorders tend to decrease in intensity IF we manage to make it into our 30's and 40's.

I can see tell-tale signs of emotional maturity that I completely lacked a few years ago, so I believe it.  As for being cured, that I've yet to see.  While not going through hellish detox/withdrawals, psychedelics are known to be great for that sort of thing (don't advocate it during detox, again) - Check out Timothy Leary's guide to imprint the Buddhist-Tibetan experience, a write-up he came up with after The Harvard Project had flying successes.  I intend to cure myself with this method as I have my OCD and some other tics, but am wise enough to wait for the right time.

Quote:

JustForToday said:

Damn someone who understands me.. Heart break was the worst thing i've ever been through idk why I didn't off myself.. I wonder how she is doing.. I hope she is okay.

I act like i'm perfectly okay when I see a psych doc. If they ever try to put me in the psych ward i'll act like I have gun then they'll shoot me i'm not going back there..




Well, personality disorders are technically coping mechanisms, my belief is that it was partly hereditary and then a hard upbringing "triggered" those genes in my early teens, and it's been quite the shit-show ever since.  I have had some pretty grand moments in life despite it, though.

My first heartbreak was worse than the ones I've endured as an adult (I was 17, sadly still my longest relationship was my first, and I've...been around since then)

I sought out some of my exes and ended up regretting it deeply.  The first love came back and slept with me, for the sex, then decided I was still too unstable and left again.  Ouch.

The rest think I'm a sociopath because I'd always end up attracted to damaged women, and then I'd damage them more and be emotionally blunted, so it's natural they feel that way, doesn't help my conscience or self-esteem much but knowing yourself is more important than others knowing you (self-honesty before total honesty was how it went for me, being honest with myself can be a painful experience, but also liberating)

You'll survive it.  I don't know your specifics so I wouldn't presume to tell you how to manage your love life, but in my experience it is best to move on, another thing we BPD do is fall in love easily (at least, after that first one, found an even better one, god I miss her...and her perfect...everything, lol)

Emotions are intensified.  We tend to be highly intuitive and these features are attractive as hell to women when we're not being complete basket cases, and even then some women think they can "fix you" - avoid that, they can't, although I miss being coddled and being told how amazing I was, I always ended up hurting them.

Which is not to say you will too; just that it won't be easy hanging onto that feeling of perfection, and you'll be surprised at how many times you climb out of a hopeless pit you truly, truly believe you could never ever make it out of, just to suddenly be someone else, somewhere else, in a new chapter.  It's a trip, really.

I say get as much out of life as you can.  Avoid needles/benzos, stay in some form of therapy and stay within some form of support group even if you hate it, once you start isolating for years at a time the condition becomes much, much harder to cope with and makes those new chapters much more difficult to turn the page too.

Trust in this though; you will love again.  I'll give you my word on that one.

EDIT_

Forgot to mention.  My PTSD is like 75% from my stints in psychiatric facilities, and when I was younger if I didn't have family connections through the County, they were going to send me to a 23 hour a day lockdown psych facility (same place Ed Gein died) - and yea, I'd do pretty much anything to avoid going back, including several failed attempts to taper off benzos.  I always told myself if I ever make it out of this hell and strike it rich, I'd design psych facilities that actually make people feel better.  Even came up with a few ideas for patents (strangle-proof ear buds for mp3 players, etc) while I was in psych wards.

In recovery circles there is a saying; "Religion is for those afraid to go to hell; Spirituality is for those who have already been there."

A charm on my arm to disarm all the harm; "In all chaos there is a cosmos, in all disorder a secret order."

Which is to say, everything happens for a reason, we just don't know.  At least in hindsight.

Follow synchronicities, example from Waking Life "Ever think of a song you haven't heard of in years, and suddenly it starts playing on the car radio?" I find this to be a very helpful guide to tell me I'm on the right path.  I also notice my lucid dreams go dark as hell and my subconscious tends to tell me all the ugly truths I need to hear (and probably some so bad I could live without remembering) in my dreams.  Study Carl Jung, Freud is very limited in these regards.  Jungian psychology has done me a lot of good, check out his concept of Individuation.

Clearly you have a big heart, you've just gotta learn how to live with it, same as me.

-P


Edited by plurfekt (11/22/16 07:57 PM)


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: Morel Guy] * 1
    #23858556 - 11/22/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Most grow out of BPD.  The most promising treatment is working DBT.

OP, be honest with your docs or don't use em at all.. these people are in charge of your overall well-being.  It would be wise to present an authentic case for them to treat.


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What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibleplurfekt
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23858690 - 11/22/16 08:35 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Most grow out of BPD.  The most promising treatment is working DBT.

OP, be honest with your docs or don't use em at all.. these people are in charge of your overall well-being.  It would be wise to present an authentic case for them to treat.




When it comes to the whole "Are you suicidal or homicidal" thing they always ask; I find saying things like "I don't want to die, I just want to live another way, happier and healthier.  But, sometimes my mind goes to dark places and it is terrifying, despite my general lack of fear in everything else."

It allows you to admit your problem exists without them being legally obligated to throw you on a 72-hour hold (or worse, given a psych history) and they will often try to work with you to resolve the issue, rather than take it so seriously they just over-medicate you.  Again, this is based on my own experiences and it is totally possible yours would be the opposite, just offering incentive of things that have worked for me when dealing with "the system".

Most grow out of BPD.  Got a source on that?

I agree DBT looks promising, more-so than CBT which was the standard when I first started getting treated.

I can tell this is a good person... just a person who knows real suffering as I do.  Don't give up, those of us who can withstand the pain grow to gain wisdom few others ever achieve, and while it may not seem like it a lot of the time, we can do a lot of good as well.  That and, if you learn to cope and get back on a happy track, you'll be happy to forget ever making this thread, and the desperation that led you to do it.  It can and will pass.

Also, the reason you never killed yourself is because you are intelligent enough to know this already at a subconscious level.  Doesn't hurt to get an occasional reminder, though.  Sometimes the tune of your own voice in your head will drown out all the others, and "normies" telling you how to act, how to feel is quite an exercise in futility.

You will be you, VERY you.  But that's cool, man..  Roll with it, and not down-hill.

You can PM me whenever you want.  Always there for someone who has had to go through similar things to what I have; understanding it is... not for the normies.  I only advise you admit to being suicidal or homidical if you have an actual plan set in place and are willing to make a sacrifice to prevent yourself from making that mistake.  I have had to lock myself up before, for fear of what I'd do, more than once.  You're not alone.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23858712 - 11/22/16 08:41 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

bpd is lifelong, but the symptoms generally decrease in intensity as one ages. This is also the case, i believe, for other disorders, like anti-social.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404] * 1
    #23858756 - 11/22/16 08:59 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

"-- while BPD is a serious mental illness, it is by no means a life sentence. Research has shown that the prognosis for BPD is actually not as bad at once thought.

Almost half of people who are diagnosed with BPD will not meet the criteria for diagnosis just two years later. Ten years later, 88 percent of people who were once diagnosed with BPD no longer meet criteria for a diagnosis."

Sources:

Amarine, MC, Frankenburg, FR, Hensen, J, Reich, DB, and Silk, KR. "Predictions of the 10-year course of borderline personality disorder." American Journal of Psychiatry, 163:827-832, 2006.

American Psychiatric Association. "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Illnesses-5th edition", 2013.

Widiger, T. "Invited Essay: Sex Biases in the Diagnosis of Personality Disorders." Journal of Personality Disorders, 12:95-118, 1998.

Work Group on Borderline Personality Disorder. "Practice Guidelines for the Treatment of Patients with Borderline Personality Disorder." American Journal of Psychiatry, 158:1-52.


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: 404] * 1
    #23858774 - 11/22/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
bpd is lifelong, but the symptoms generally decrease in intensity as one ages. This is also the case, i believe, for other disorders, like anti-social.




Yea, I said that earlier.  I know you haven't been reading my entire posts though (don't really blame you; look at those mountains!), so thanks for replying politely anyways.

BPD is not something you "outgrow"

I've also been diagnosed with Anti-Social personality disorder, Narcissistic personality disorder, & obsessive compulsive personality disorder.  Unless cured with say, an ego-death and mind-shattering internal revelations, it is very much a lifetime condition, but yes, all research I've read suggests they get better with age, particularly in the 40's with men.

The Yale psychiatrist I traveled over 2,000 miles to see for this reason simply told me after extensive (I had 2x as many counseling sessions and 2x as many psych sessions as everyone else... people were pissed, actually.  But I was a rare case, and I went a long way to get answers.) - anyway

She told me that I was true Borderline, and given the higher intelligence and impulse control I exhibited, along with signs of what she called "Emotional blunting" which I fear only got worse during my heavy drug use years, told me for the first time that I was far from a sociopath, and I'd been misdiagnosed and mislead which reinforced the false diagnosis - I mean, someone tells you during an emotionally blunted traumatic state that you are a psychopath, you start to believe it...  She managed to get a few tears out of me, impressive at the time.  Ever since I've strived to battle the affliction and be a better person.  Even on my worst days, I hold all the doors and always say thank you to strangers.  I find it's the small things that keep the karma in the world rotating, not necessarily big sacrifices here and there.

Ultimately 1 doctor = 1 new diagnosis.  I took it upon myself to study psychology and now I have a fairly good idea of who and more important, what I am.  Makes it easier to spot my own bullshit and take my own inventory when I know as much as they do about the conditions they are diagnosing me with.  Makes conversation with new doctors difficult though, they just immediately see someone who knows way too damn much and they don't react well, lol.  Especially when you're right, shit.. that's bad - doctors hate being called out.  I play stupid as much as I can in that regard, in order to let them do their jobs.

in AA/NA they preach Rigorous honesty, which is to say, 100% honesty to ones self AND everyone else - I, for some sad personal reasons cannot do this with everyone, but I find if you can find just 1-2 special people out there you can be 100% honest with, and stay 100% honest with yourself, it's all you really need to survive and keep your sanity.

In regards to the lifelong illness controversy; it's highly controversial, to the point where the illnesses are marked way differently from country to country.  We just happen to have the DSM-5 in America currently, so look behind the words and look at the core of the problem that makes you qualified for diagnosis.

Also, most people diagnosed with BPD are misdiagnosed, and the stats reflect that.

I agree it is something you can in a way evolve from, but it is always going to remain a part of you, whether your doctor takes it off your medical chart or not.  It's more of a "what" rather than a "who" condition.  As you develop a new you, the old behaviors fall and then you don't meet diagnostic criteria anymore.  Doesn't mean what made you that way in the first place went away, simply means you found a way to deal with it.  I would know...

Thanks for posting sources though, I can't stand when people make ridiculously unfounded claims with no life experience.


Hey OP, question for you regarding the Hydroxyzine (fun fact; hydroxyzine is the only word in the English language that has the letters xyz in order, lmao)

I just took half of one of my 50mg's for sleep and I've noticed during the first 20-30 minutes when it's really kicking in, I get sharp pains (real fast, like lightning) in certain parts of my neck and forearms, legs, occasionally the finger tips.  Does this ever happen to you?


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23858798 - 11/22/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I stand corrected! :cheers:


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23859719 - 11/23/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

:cheers: 

I used to take atarax, have never experienced anything remotely like that.  It didn't do much for me other than help with seasonal allergies.  It can also potentiate better things.

Sounds like a drug interaction, are you taking anything else?


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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: birdeatingspider]
    #23860449 - 11/23/16 12:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
:cheers: 

I used to take atarax, have never experienced anything remotely like that.  It didn't do much for me other than help with seasonal allergies.  It can also potentiate better things.

Sounds like a drug interaction, are you taking anything else?




I've complained with this side effect and they literally just switched me from hydroxyzine pamoate to benadryl then back to hydroxyzine hcl

the hcl is better slightly.  but yea, i get bad side effects from it and i have no allergies, not even seasonal ones, and when I take antihistimates I start sneezing lol

shit's weird.. has my allergy-ridden mother looking at me like wtf are you...

otherwise long night,

Canadian chick.  One of my new goals. 'Merica

"She couldn't tell I was American by talking to me" best compliment ever

rofl


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OfflineJustForToday
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Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23861572 - 11/23/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Damn everything you said is ME! The way you act and stuff.. I really want to talk over the phone sometime. I just broke it tonight so perhaps when I get it fixed.


--------------------
Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!



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Invisibleplurfekt
Finally Grateful

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1,919
Loc: USA
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23861778 - 11/23/16 07:46 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Damn everything you said is ME! The way you act and stuff.. I really want to talk over the phone sometime. I just broke it tonight so perhaps when I get it fixed.




I don't ordinarily do that but it could be arranged :thumbup:

Feel free to PM me in the meantime.  Happy Thanksgiving, mate.


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OfflineJustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


Registered: 09/08/14
Posts: 3,186
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #23861782 - 11/23/16 07:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing happy about anything. this is the worst day of my life I'm trying to sleep it off and my fucking roommate left my med in the car and I broke my phone tonight.. Now i'm just waiting for him to get back so I can take my meds and sleep this shit off..


--------------------
Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!



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Invisibleplurfekt
Finally Grateful

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 1,919
Loc: USA
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: JustForToday]
    #23861807 - 11/23/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JustForToday said:
Nothing happy about anything. this is the worst day of my life I'm trying to sleep it off and my fucking roommate left my med in the car and I broke my phone tonight.. Now i'm just waiting for him to get back so I can take my meds and sleep this shit off..




I feel you; not exactly having a great day either.

Still, hang in there.  It's temporary and eventually you'll be back at a high point.

"Sometimes you're flush and sometimes you're bust, and when you're up, it's never as good as it seems, and when you're down, you never think you'll be up again, but life goes on."

:plur:


Edited by plurfekt (12/28/16 02:06 PM)


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Offlinenicknovak
foggy halo
I'm a teapot


Registered: 10/23/22
Posts: 2
Loc: in my own head
Last seen: 5 months, 13 days
Re: Is anyone here an herbalist or knows about naturaly remedies from getting off of psych meds? [Re: plurfekt]
    #28118746 - 12/31/22 12:34 PM (1 year, 29 days ago)

Wow. I'm reading this in 2022. Randomly stumbled across this searching for something completely different... (was word searching "chaga")
this thread and your replies are very much appreciated by me.....
currently experiencing the most intense emotional pain, likely due to BPD or something like it... amongst extreme anxiety, npd traits, relationships, and more...
great to read


--------------------
cheers, :bunnypeace:

:pride::holyshit::dancingshroom::hamsterdance::pride:


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