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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,766
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: daytripper05] 1
#23848743 - 11/19/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fuck it right lets elimintate all of the workers protection regulations i so sick of big government picking on the poor little business owners its stifling business this is why our economy isnt growing as fast as it was. eliminate minimum wage family medical leave, child labour, workers comp, we need to do anything we can to keep this furnace burning white hot baby.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Crystal G]
#23848753 - 11/19/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
People always think of cutting business taxes as being "failed trickle down economics", but this is true propaganda. Taxes should be 10-15%, no more. Anyone paying more than that is paying way more than their fair share.
Add shitty health care premiums that cost as little as $500-600 a month that buy you a plan that gets you $10,000 deductible because you make too much money to get subsidies, and you have a recipe for a failing middle class.
people have been living under the auspices of the current paradigm, and both liberals and 'the right' have allowed it...which is why taking drastic measures is even considered worthy at this point, because things have gotten so bad that things are breaking down. you can blame not only liberal policies, but right-wing policies as well...how come no one can come out of these problems unscathed, ever, no matter the president?
ask yourself that, and get back to me. i don't vouch for one idea over the other for no reason...i need a reason. i'm open to any idea that can show results that will get people on the right road to success. people disagree on how to get there.
point is, why anyone, liberal, or republican, hasn't ever gotten you there....
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#23848759 - 11/19/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: Fuck it right lets elimintate all of the workers protection regulations i so sick of big government picking on the poor little business owners its stifling business this is why our economy isnt growing as fast as it was. eliminate minimum wage family medical leave, child labour, workers comp, we need to do anything we can to keep this furnace burning white hot baby.
Nobody is advocating that, calm down
***Cutting tax rates wouldn't effect any of that, as a matter of fact, they would increase worker compensation
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: akira_akuma]
#23848762 - 11/19/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
People always think of cutting business taxes as being "failed trickle down economics", but this is true propaganda. Taxes should be 10-15%, no more. Anyone paying more than that is paying way more than their fair share.
Add shitty health care premiums that cost as little as $500-600 a month that buy you a plan that gets you $10,000 deductible because you make too much money to get subsidies, and you have a recipe for a failing middle class.
See, I would be fine with like a 40% tax if it came with services like universal healthcare, free education, pensions, guaranteed paid maternity and paternity leave and paid vacation time. For the amount of tax most Americans are paying, you'd think we should be getting more social services out of it.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,766
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 hour, 7 minutes
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: akira_akuma]
#23848764 - 11/19/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Arent we in a major budget crisis right now? You really think trumps drastic tax cuts for business and things like cap gains is really gonna spur production enough to make up the difference? I mean it seems everytime we give these people tax cuts they jus keep the money rather than reinvesting it.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



Registered: 05/14/15
Posts: 8,602
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#23848773 - 11/19/16 02:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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CHeifM4sterDiezL said: Arent we in a major budget crisis right now? You really think trumps drastic tax cuts for business and things like cap gains is really gonna spur production enough to make up the difference? I mean it seems everytime we give these people tax cuts they jus keep the money rather than reinvesting it.
We are 20 TRILLION in debt, the last fucking thing we need is more "social services" and higher taxes killing the economy
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,068
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23848780 - 11/19/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Propaganda is all they have left, they are almost obsolete
Yes, soon progress will be a thing of the past and all that will remain is longing for the way things used to be
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Crystal G]
#23848781 - 11/19/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: you showed nothing because the map is under contention
Under contention by whom?Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: I don't understand why people oppose cutting business taxes down to 15%. I am self employed. I have no employees. I get taxed at 35%. There is no liberal on the planet that can justify that is fair to me. If you are a single white male with no deductible and get a W2, you get are getting taxed at 25-30%. This is unfair. And college kids wonder why they have no good jobs or high wages, because the companies able to hire are being taxed even more.
You're entirely right, taxing the working class at 35% is way too much. When you included all my taxes last year including FICA, federal, state, and local tax, I was getting taxed close to 45%. And I was in my 30's and still renting a room with the leftover money because my choices were I could have either spent all my money on my own apartment, or budgeted a little better with roommates and ended up with money left over to save.
In all honesty though, why do you think only single white males get taxes at this rate? Do you really honestly think that women and minorities get taxed at different rates than you do? 
I wasn't saying single white males only get taxed at this rate. I am can only speak for myself, being a single white male.
I guess my point is that single that aren't minorities without dependents get penalize. My sister for example has 2 kids, gets help with government daycare (over $1000) a month. She had two kids and can't afford them, so she gets major entitlements from the government. Whereas myself, I chose not to have kids because I know how to pull my dick out and choose to be fiscally responsible, yet I have to pick up the slack for others (like my sister) that need government subsidies just to support their lifestyle. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't have help, but taxing the working class that makes smart financial decisions isn't helping anyone.
I am literally in a position now with Obama's tax policies that the more I work, the less money I make. I can profit a higher margin if I choose to work 20 hours a week than if I bill for 40 because the tax rate is so disproportional and disenfranchises people that make more than $35K a year.
I should be rewarded for working hard and paying taxes, not the other way around. This is why there is a huge division in this country because conservatism and liberalism. I am at the point now where I can't logically vote for social change as the expense of increasing my own taxes and increasing the entitlements of others.
I mean 26 year olds have healthcare. I'm 30 and haven't had healthcare in 12 years. I can't get a loan to buy a house because of medical debt that happened in 2006. I've said argument before, but I realize the threads move fast and many don't read it. I have no bad credit or unpaid bills accept $20K in hospital bills I couldn't afford when I was 19 and I didn't go to college so I wasn't covered by insurance.
Many liberal policies alienate an entire group of people while claiming to help them. I am just 1 example of millions.
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hostileuniverse
Stranger



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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23848786 - 11/19/16 02:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Propaganda is all they have left, they are almost obsolete
Yes, soon progress will be a thing of the past and all that will remain is longing for the way things used to be 
Democrats have taken quite the beating the last six years, what would you call it?
***a resurgence?
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Malkuthian
Fetus



Registered: 12/06/15
Posts: 668
Loc:
Last seen: 1 day, 18 hours
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: hostileuniverse] 1
#23848790 - 11/19/16 02:06 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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hostileuniverse said: Bernice would have lost in a bigger landslide than the Hildabeast did
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hostileuniverse said: Most Bernice voters I have spoken to voted for Trump, the only other real outsider candidate running
How does this add up?
I guess it's obvious that none of the Celery Clinton voters would have chosen Donald J Tramp over Grizzly Bearnie. And you are saying the Bernking voters went to Tan-Trump when Bernlord was no longer an alternative = if he had been an alternative they would have voted for his royal eminences.
I.e His awesomeness Bearnaise would have done better than acid flashback high as a hill-ary, which contradicts your statement.
What am I missing here futileuniverse?
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: koods]
#23848794 - 11/19/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
daytripper05 said: How am I posting propaganda by posting a statistical breakdown of the electoral votes by county? If that is what you consider propaganda, it's no wonder the world has gone to shit and liberals are out of touch with reality.
My point was to refute the argument that Trump was elected by racists when clearly Trump flipped traditionally democratic states and got much more of the minority vote than anyone expected. Then he talks about the "mason dixon line", but that has no relevance if you look at the data in the image I posted... which is actual DATA, which is fact, not propaganda.
Actually, propaganda is exactly that image's intended purpose. It doesn't really prove anything, but it looks significant. And, it's not data. Its a graphic.
Now that's semantic bullshit right there. It's a visual representation of the data. If you read the actual data in a spreadsheet it would say the same thing as the visual representation except it's just harder to read and comprehend.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: daytripper05]
#23848815 - 11/19/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: I guess my point is that single that aren't minorities without dependents get penalize.
Again man you're not getting penalized because you're not a minority. I don't know why you keep bringing up the issue of race when it comes to paying taxes. I assure you, the reason you pay more tax than your sister is solely based on the number of dependents, marital status, and income. That's it. It's not like black people and women get a tax break just for being black or female.
Quote:
I mean 26 year olds have healthcare. I'm 30 and haven't had healthcare in 12 years. I can't get a loan to buy a house because of medical debt that happened in 2006. I've said argument before, but I realize the threads move fast and many don't read it. I have no bad credit or unpaid bills accept $20K in hospital bills I couldn't afford when I was 19 and I didn't go to college so I wasn't covered by insurance.
Many liberal policies alienate an entire group of people while claiming to help them. I am just 1 example of millions.
Isn't it illegal now to not be covered under any health insurance? Do you just pay the fine or what? Because if you make too much money for Medicare but just barely, then you should still be eligible for low-cost health insurance as offered under Obamacare.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: daytripper05] 1
#23848824 - 11/19/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Now that's semantic bullshit right there. It's a visual representation of the data. If you read the actual data in a spreadsheet it would say the same thing as the visual representation except it's just harder to read and comprehend.
It's really not a good or accurate visualization though, because as I stated previously, 80% of the nation's population lives in areas where the blue typically exists on the map.
See, that image you posted is misleading because it makes you think that the population is dispersed evenly and therefore significantly more people voted for Trump.
That's why it's called propaganda.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: daytripper05]
#23848826 - 11/19/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: Now that's semantic bullshit right there. It's a visual representation of the data. If you read the actual data in a spreadsheet it would say the same thing as the visual representation except it's just harder to read and comprehend.
it's not semantic bullshit, it's just semantics...he's using his words to explain to you how your use of the map is just what he said...propaganda. it's small time, but it is what it is.
you're not actually addressing the arguments or contentions people have by just going "look at the map, look at the map!".
the map makes not an argument for or against the electoral college. 
Quote:
. I am just 1 example of millions.
out of how many US citizens overall?
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,068
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: hostileuniverse]
#23848828 - 11/19/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hostileuniverse said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
hostileuniverse said: Propaganda is all they have left, they are almost obsolete
Yes, soon progress will be a thing of the past and all that will remain is longing for the way things used to be 
Democrats have taken quite the beating the last six years, what would you call it?
***a resurgence?
Same circlejerk different day would be one way to put it.
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daytripper05
Psychonaut




Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 6,962
Loc: In my garden
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Crystal G]
#23848853 - 11/19/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know minorities don't get special line items on tax forms, but they most certainly get plenty of entitlements and privileges in this country. My point is to not take away from legitimate needs of single mothers or minorities, rather expose the truth of how we are cripple the working class through bad political policies through entitlement programs that inherently exclude groups of people based on income.
I am saying the whole system is flawed, and "more of the same", for which is what Hillary was campaigning, isn't working for the working class.
Quote:
Crystal G said: Isn't it illegal now to not be covered under any health insurance? Do you just pay the fine or what? Because if you make too much money for Medicare but just barely, then you should still be eligible for low-cost health insurance as offered under Obamacare.
I haven't paid any fine so far. I literally just don't pay it on my taxes. The IRS doesn't have the resources to prove that I don't have healthcare, and I believe it's unconstitutional to force me to by something so I don't pay it. It's bullshit. But even if I was fined it would be hundreds of dollars vs literally thousands of dollars for healthcare I don't want.
This right here is what's wrong ideology in support of Obamacare, "you should still be eligible for low-cost health insurance as offered under Obamacare". It's wrong for you or anyone to make such assumptions based on something as personal as healthcare to justify a law that MANDATES a tax on people that can't afford healthcare to begin with. I'm not eligible for anything. I've stated in previous posts that my costs would be like $500-$600 a month for a $10,000 deductible that gives me limited access to care.
When I was 19 I didn't have a good job. Just out of highschool, lived with my parents still. I got hurt and applied for medicaid. I was denied because I made too much money (at 19!). I was also denied because I didn't have a severe enough injury and I would eventually recover (I had a triple skull fracture and couldn't work or drive for 18 months). I couldn't afford to hire an attorney to fight the very system that was suppose to help me.
Again, this isn't about me or my personal problems. I am not complaining about me or my anecdotes. Rather, using them to expose hypocrisy in our system. Millions of people fall through the cracks and get penalized.
Anothing example of the flawed tax code that would only have gotten even more flawed under Hillary... I shoudn't be forced to spend money to get a lower tax rate. I want to save to buy a house. I literally can't save half the money I want to do because I get taxed at such high rates. I have to report "losses" and "expenses" to lower my taxable income to the point I can afford my taxed. So I'm either stuck lying to the IRS saying I spent more than I really did, or I spend all my money in the bank on shit I don't really want to avoid going broke over paying taxes. At least under the latter scenario I am still broke but I have a bunch of material shit I don't need. I could by a new car and computer every year just to get a tax break... This is bullshit.
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philopian_tube
Registered: 08/24/13
Posts: 443
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: daytripper05] 5
#23849018 - 11/19/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Koods/Crystal G for shock therapy 2017
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Crystal G]
#23849652 - 11/19/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: You're entirely right, taxing the working class at 35% is way too much. When you included all my taxes last year including FICA, federal, state, and local tax, I was getting taxed close to 45%. And I was in my 30's and still renting a room with the leftover money because my choices were I could have either spent all my money on my own apartment, or budgeted a little better with roommates and ended up with money left over to save.
and just what was your income bracket in which you were being taxed at 45% and had to rent a room so you could have a few dollars left out of your paycheck?
Quote:
Add shitty health care premiums that cost as little as $500-600 a month that buy you a plan that gets you $10,000 deductible because you make too much money to get subsidies, and you have a recipe for a failing middle class.
lol... you've never actually paid for insurance have you because you seem to be regurgitating crap off the obama data sheet, it's a work of fiction
http://www.coloradopols.com/diary/54619/today-in-bs-the-10000-obamacare-deductible#sthash.47twwrgC.dpbs
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A.RichardTrickle
Feel like a Stranger

Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 808
Loc: Silver Mine Peggy Sue
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23850052 - 11/19/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I thank heavens for my awesome coverage everyday. What a fucking racket, my mom n pops would be pretty well screwed if not for dads hard work and Medicare coverage. Dick
-------------------- "When eating shit, it is best not to nibble. Bite, Chew. Swallow. Repeat." "If you're making love to your old lady, someone else is fucking her" "Douchebags are children who never grew up, like Sheeklette, we should pity them." [quote]Niffla said: [quote]A.RichardTrickle said: Dick[/quote] http://www.youtube.com/v/kbwNUOUy-3c[/quote]
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 9 months, 6 days
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Re: Hillary Clinton Won The Popular Vote By Over 1,000,000 Votes [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23850156 - 11/19/16 11:10 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
daytripper05 said: I know minorities don't get special line items on tax forms, but they most certainly get plenty of entitlements and privileges in this country.
What are minorities automatically entitled to that you are not?
Quote:
through entitlement programs that inherently exclude groups of people based on income.
How else would you consider who is qualified for these programs if not based on income?
Quote:
This right here is what's wrong ideology in support of Obamacare, "you should still be eligible for low-cost health insurance as offered under Obamacare". It's wrong for you or anyone to make such assumptions based on something as personal as healthcare to justify a law that MANDATES a tax on people that can't afford healthcare to begin with. I'm not eligible for anything. I've stated in previous posts that my costs would be like $500-$600 a month for a $10,000 deductible that gives me limited access to care.
You've never bothered to look and research insurance rates in the open market before have you? I bet you anything you could find policies for close to $100 a month. It's not like you're disabled or elderly or have a family.
Quote:
When I was 19 I didn't have a good job. Just out of highschool, lived with my parents still. I got hurt and applied for medicaid. I was denied because I made too much money (at 19!). I was also denied because I didn't have a severe enough injury and I would eventually recover (I had a triple skull fracture and couldn't work or drive for 18 months). I couldn't afford to hire an attorney to fight the very system that was suppose to help me.
That was over 10 years ago, I'm guessing. The guidelines to be eligible for Medicare loosened after Obamacare, at least in some states.
How were you denied because your injury wasn't severe enough? Are the Medicare office workers allowed to look up your health records? Because nowadays you don't have to be injured at all to be eligible for Medicare.
I'm surprised that your individual state never had a low-cost insurance option for people who make just too much for Medicare, but can't afford self-paid insurance.
Quote:
Anothing example of the flawed tax code that would only have gotten even more flawed under Hillary... I shoudn't be forced to spend money to get a lower tax rate. I want to save to buy a house. I literally can't save half the money I want to do because I get taxed at such high rates. I have to report "losses" and "expenses" to lower my taxable income to the point I can afford my taxed. So I'm either stuck lying to the IRS saying I spent more than I really did, or I spend all my money in the bank on shit I don't really want to avoid going broke over paying taxes. At least under the latter scenario I am still broke but I have a bunch of material shit I don't need. I could by a new car and computer every year just to get a tax break... This is bullshit.
You don't actually save money by buying stuff to try to get any of those tax breaks, since you don't make back nearly the same amount that you spent. I'm guessing you filed a 1099 subcontractor tax form.
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: and just what was your income bracket in which you were being taxed at 45% and had to rent a room so you could have a few dollars left out of your paycheck?
It was around $45K at the time, if I weren't getting taxed at all I should have ended up with roughly $3600 a month. Instead my bi-weekly pay was around $980 or something like that. Granted, that was also after they automatically deducted the monthly health insurance and auto insurance costs for the company car from my paycheck, so I'm guessing I was taxed somewhere around 40% before that. Because my health insurance costs were very low, it was only like $36 a month or something.
Technically I could have gotten my own apartment with $1800 a month, but after money for utilities, gym, food, bills, and any other expenses, I wouldn't have had any money left over to save up. I'm more of a saver than a spender, and I hate the concept of living paycheck to paycheck, so I decided it was preferable to share a loft with somebody for like $700 and have more spending and saving money.
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