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OfflineHairlesscaveape
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To soak or not to soak
    #23846769 - 11/18/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im bout to start my grow tomorrow and I wasn't going to soak my rye berrys.  I had great results in the past not soaking.  I don't plan on soaking now either.  Im just gonna fill my qt jars with 200 grams of water and 200 grams of rye berrys and pc them for bout 45 minits.  I did it before this way and didn't have any problems.  I did however read that if ya wanted to you can soak your rye berrys for 24 hours if ya wanted to, in order to prevent endospores from germinating in your spawn.  I get the whole consept and everything but just how nessasary is it to do such thing?  I didn't in the past and never had a problem.  Has a anybody here ever had a problem not soaking their rye berrys?  I would think it would throw off the moisture content that you wanted if you soaked your rye before you pc'ed.  Wouldn't it make your spawn jars moister if you soaked your rye and then pc'ed them, than if you just pc'ed them?  I already had good results using the "no soak before pc'ing" tec.  It worked for me in the past and I was just gonna do it the way I was used to.  Anyhow,  I just wanted to see some opinions.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23846821 - 11/18/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

That's the ghettoest way to prepare grain... and also the most difficult way to get good results.

Also, you're not preventing endospores from germinating in your spawn, you're germinating them purposefully so that you can kill them in the PC.  If you're not going to soak them you should at least boil them about ~30m before PCing them, so that you PC them at the right moisture content.  I don't know anyone whose knowledge I subscribe to who condones this grain+water method of grain prep.  It almost always creates a layer of grains that are too wet on the bottom, and a layer of grains that are too dry on top.  Honestly we've all heard the "but I've had good results" line a million times, chances are if you posted what you consider good results a few folks would pop up who begged to differ.  Not to say you shouldn't do whatever you want to do, but there's a paper trail of success and I just feel like it makes the most sense to follow that.  When you first get started anything short of utter disaster can usually be considered success, but later on, only getting 2 dry ounces from a mini tub could be considered a failure.  Just saying, like... over time you're going to understand the reasons most people do the things they do.  Some like to find out the hard way, some take people's word for it.  That's all on you though.


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OfflineHairlesscaveape
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Inocuole]
    #23846968 - 11/18/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Damn Inocuole,  I got that info from rite here when I went to the mushroom info button on top of this page. I went from mushroom info to growing mushrooms to general cultivation to grain spawn. Then I read "what are some good grain recipes for different species." I did about an lb per tub after 3 flushes with this tec. I am a noob but I didn't think it was too bad.  Check the Mushroom info button on the top of this page breth.  It even got 5 stars.  Ya shaken up after ya pc'em. That kinda takes care of the "wet on the bottom but dry on top" problem.  And I know the point is to germinate the endospores so ya can killem with your pc. What Im askin bout this is, how many people have actually had these spores fukk up they're grow when they didn't soak they're grains.  Just wonderin.


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OfflinePieEyed-Messiah
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23847030 - 11/18/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Im fond of experimentation.. you just might stumble onto sumthin great! Keep up the hard work and keep me posted on how it comes out being able to prep 1-2 jars on the fly doesnt sound like such a bad idea


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OfflineA.RichardTrickle
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23847034 - 11/18/16 10:29 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

I prefer red milo for surface area as well as cost.
I find it best to add grain to large pot of water, bring to low boil, cover and let it sit for an hour or so.
Best wishes
Dick


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[quote]A.RichardTrickle said:
Dick[/quote]
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OfflineHairlesscaveape
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: A.RichardTrickle]
    #23847100 - 11/18/16 10:48 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks all!


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23847172 - 11/18/16 11:14 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
Damn Inocuole,  I got that info from rite here when I went to the mushroom info button on top of this page.




shroomery forums are the shit. the site itself has a lot of out dated and indeed 'ghetto' ass shit.


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Invisibleazur
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23847175 - 11/18/16 11:15 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
Im bout to start my grow tomorrow and I wasn't going to soak my rye berrys.  I had great results in the past not soaking.  I don't plan on soaking now either.  Im just gonna fill my qt jars with 200 grams of water and 200 grams of rye berrys and pc them for bout 45 minits.  I did it before this way and didn't have any problems.  I did however read that if ya wanted to you can soak your rye berrys for 24 hours if ya wanted to, in order to prevent endospores from germinating in your spawn.  I get the whole consept and everything but just how nessasary is it to do such thing?  I didn't in the past and never had a problem.  Has a anybody here ever had a problem not soaking their rye berrys?  I would think it would throw off the moisture content that you wanted if you soaked your rye before you pc'ed.  Wouldn't it make your spawn jars moister if you soaked your rye and then pc'ed them, than if you just pc'ed them?  I already had good results using the "no soak before pc'ing" tec.  It worked for me in the past and I was just gonna do it the way I was used to.  Anyhow,  I just wanted to see some opinions.





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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: mushboy]
    #23849444 - 11/19/16 06:00 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
Damn Inocuole,  I got that info from rite here when I went to the mushroom info button on top of this page.




shroomery forums are the shit. the site itself has a lot of out dated and indeed 'ghetto' ass shit.




This, always check anything you find on the main site against the forums.  Those little info pages don't offer a good enough space for peer review.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
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Offlineblackout
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: Hairlesscaveape]
    #23852002 - 11/20/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
rye berrys and pc them for bout 45 minits.  I did it before this way and didn't have any problems.



did you not have any burst grains in the bottom? I usually did if I ever tried this. I rarely use rye though, but similar grains burst on me, and others report the same with rye. I tried it recently keeping it below 100C bug had the same.

Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
I did however read that if ya wanted to you can soak your rye berrys for 24 hours if ya wanted to, in order to prevent endospores from germinating in your spawn.



It also hydrates them, people will soak grains they plan on eating so they cook a lot faster. If you are cooking grains in jars for a mere 45mins they may have only just got hydrated a short time before this. The grains should be fully hydrated for effective sterilization, otherwise its more like doing oven/dry air sterilization at the start. The cores of the grain should be fully hdyrated so heat transfers into them better, and the contams & endospores we want to kill are more easily killed too.


Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
  Ya shaken up after ya pc'em. That kinda takes care of the "wet on the bottom but dry on top" problem.



The drier grains on top may not have been effectively sterilized since they may never have been properly hydrated. Especially in only 45mins.


Quote:

Hairlesscaveape said:
I would think it would throw off the moisture content that you wanted if you soaked your rye before you pc'ed.



If you soaked 200g grain and drained them you would weigh again, if its now 300g you need to add 100g to your jar to get your original recipe. If you insist on this method, which I would recommend against. A presoak would still be a much better idea than no soaking. You could also just fill your jars with 200g water & 200g rye and leave them sit to absorb, so no straining and weighing etc.

In Paul Stamets 30+ year old book "the mushroom cultivator" he gives instructions to do the dry grain method with cold water & no soak. In his later book GGMM he gives two main methods, the first being simmering for an hour, and the second being soaking in the jars with the water measured properly. He says people have to make up their own minds which suits them and favours neither (or words to that effect). He also recommends adding hot water if doing the soak method. I have done this by adding boiling water to grains and microwaving them until boiling again and then capping and leaving them. This will cause more water to be absorbed and should kill off a few contams on the surface of the grain.

He also says you get the advantage of no lost starches or nutrients too. Others soak and/or simmer in excess water and see it as an advantage as you are washing off excess starch and dirt which can cause grains to stick together.

Another way it could be done is to add your 200g water and 200g rye with hot or cold water (preferably boiling). Now the next day you should see remaining water in the jar, you could mark this water level with a marker, add lots more water and rinse off the crappy dirty water. Do this again and drain, now fill with clean water to the line and sterilize. This should at least wash off the sticky crap. But I still do not like the idea of it -but better than your current method and not much more work.


Edited by blackout (11/20/16 04:33 PM)


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OfflineHairlesscaveape
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Re: To soak or not to soak [Re: blackout]
    #23856306 - 11/22/16 05:12 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for all that.  Im done pc'in but I dont have time to inoculate yet. Should be soon tho.  Im just so bizzy with work and the holidays tho.  Il post my results asap.  Thanks for taking your time out to help me.


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