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 sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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I am not a fan of Salafi Muslim ideology such as that practiced by ISIS and Saudi Arabia.
Sharia law removes rights from everyone who isn't a male Salafi Muslim man.
Most Muslims do not practice extreme right versions of their own religion which is nice.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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 Re: Islamophobia  [Re: sudly] 1
#23849811 - 11/19/16 08:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yet again, incorrect groupings.
Extremism is born out of extreme conditions.
Extreme interpretations are born out of extreme conditions.
Ignorance and stupidity lead to suffering.
Every religion including atheists have their ignorant and stupid followers and that lends itself to idiotic and stupid behavior.
Islamophobia is a main-stream media concept that is used just like BLM to divide Americans on an important issue and center them on idiocy.
The real issue with Islamophobia is how radicals use islam to indoctrinate radicals.
The real issue with BLM was a internet movement against shitty cops who were threatening the lives and livelihood of all americans.
The spin is that people critical of radicalization are racist.
The spin is that people who understand BLM is a divisive sideshow are racist.
Ta-da : The real issue gets ignored.Nothing gets resolved. Suffering continues.
Radical sects of islamic believers exists. They are crazed and violent. Many outsiders played a part in their creation. Many outsiders created the extreme conditions that served as the birth place. Churn and let people fester in pools of shit (ignorance) and you're going to get stinky
outcomes.
Everyone agrees that they don't want shit tracked into their house.
There is no phobia or racism with regards to being critical and recognizing that a particular group of people and a particular religion is being used to radicilize stupid/ignorant/poor disenfranchised people right now. The radicalization is the issue not the religion.
Until its resolved, it would behove any host country not to have slanted policies.
Europe is learning this the hard or maybe that's how they wanted it.
A culture of not wanting to integrate or assimilate into a country that opens its doors to you is a problem and its one that extends beyond the islamic religion. It extends to anyone who pridefully embraces a culture or belief system that has failed them and has resulted in them fleeing to a 'better' place. It's self evident that one should 'change' but many chose not to. Then you have the wolves among the sheep. Who is going to vouch for the vetting process?
So, there is an issue and issues should be resolved intelligently.
Instead, most often, you have the most ignorant and dumbass people given the mic and power and that's just man's nostalgic lust for suffering. I guess it makes some people feel alive at the end of the day.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23849919 - 11/19/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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People with extremist interpretations of the Quaran are called Salafi Muslims.
Quote:
Ignorance and stupidity lead to suffering.
Right on but atheism isn't a religion, it's a lack of belief in religion.
Atheists also usually form beliefs based upon the scientific method and objective, testable and repeatable observations.
Mainstream media use gerrymandering to label the Democrats and Republicans as enemies when in fact both Hillary and Trump were backed by corporate and establishment lobbyists like Goldman Sachs.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
personally given a choiceI of having secular neighbors, meditators, or those who keep their religion to themselves such as followers of George Gurdjieff ...
that seems preferable to having neighbors who are gung ho into any organized religion.
given that
I suppose
one might as well mention
the elephant in the room
that is being ignored
yet everybody knows is true:
from the point of view of the natives
in both North and South American
who were the most brutal genocidal racist dishonest greedy people ?
who continue to persecute them to this day?
not Muslims
nope ...
white Christiian SOBs of European descent
And as we all, also know
this same racist world view
and behavior (that is once again on the uprise)
is what lead blacks like Cassius Clay, & Malcom X to become Muslims
and Clay changed his name to Muhammed Ali
and was and is beloved world wide
I don't think this is just a (possibly clever) debating point
I think it is a very real reality
White Christians are also about to mount an attack on women's rights
Yet you fear muslims...and are attempting to spread fear of them...
The protests going on in the big cities now are not about our poor security
There is enormous shock in this country about what the radical right is about to do the country, the supreme court, all nations, and the planet.
I think these folks are right that American culture has produced a vast pool of half awake arrogant fools, who have come together, egged on by a mean spirited manipulator ... and this thread is out of touch with the real tragedy that is taking place.
enormous shock
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 _  🧠_ 
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: sudly]
#23850007 - 11/19/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
People with extremist interpretations of the Quaran are called Salafi Muslims.
They're called lots of things that many people don't seem to fully understand. The root of an extremist is most often that they're ignorant as @#*! and compromised thus allowing an outside force to manipulate them into believing in inane ideas. Most people escape this by having something better to live for. Take a look at the 'extremist' in Chicago. The body count there rivaled the body count in Afghanistan when it was an active warzone. What's the relationship between the crazies? Ignorance and stupidity. One singular root cause that transcends gender, religion, and ethnic groupings.
Quote:
sudly said:
Right on but atheism isn't a religion, it's a lack of belief in religion.
Atheists also usually form beliefs based upon the scientific method and objective, testable and repeatable observations.
To an educated atheist.... maybe.
Many times though... you find uneducated dumbass atheists just like in other religious groups. They maintain unfounded and extreme beliefs and are the least knowing of the body of beliefs that back the ideology they subscribe to.
Atheism has modern appeal as it allows many idiots to lazily believe in nothing while maintaining that science : The quest for answers somehow backs the belief that nothing exists and everything is random... and the ignorant idea that religious believers are the dumb ones.
Interestingly enough, many of the world's top scientist were religious. You see : You have to believe in something to dedicate your life to searching for it.
So, the root problem is ignorance and it pervades many different beliefs systems.
Solve the ignorance problem and you solve the suffering problem.
P.S - Good luck. Mankind hasn't figured that one out yet.
Quote:
sudly said:
Mainstream media use gerrymandering to label the Democrats and Republicans as enemies when in fact both Hillary and Trump were backed by corporate and establishment lobbyists like Goldman Sachs.
Mankind's lust for suffering via the endless perpetuation of lies and ignorance .. Fooling and condemning nobody other than their collective selves festering in pools of their own undoing.
Profiting from confusion... Keeping the wheels of time spinning.
Yes, seems about right.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850053 - 11/19/16 10:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The root of all Islamic ideology is the Quran and it's full of stories that suggest men could fly on horses and the moon was once split in half.
Most people who follow religions use it to escape reality.
There are bad apples in every orchard.
Such as the people who deny climate change, fossils, technology and evolution.
If there were no holy books I'm sure the world would be a better place.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
personally given a choiceI of having secular neighbors, meditators, or those who keep their religion to themselves such as followers of George Gurdjieff ...
that seems preferable to having neighbors who are gung ho into any organized religion.
given that
I suppose
one might as well mention
the elephant in the room
that is being ignored
yet everybody knows is true:
from the point of view of the natives
in both North and South American
who were the most brutal genocidal racist dishonest greedy people ?
who continue to persecute them to this day?
not Muslims
nope ...
white Christiian SOBs of European descent
And as we all, also know
this same racist world view
and behavior (that is once again on the uprise)
is what lead blacks like Cassius Clay, & Malcom X to become Muslims
and Clay changed his name to Muhammed Ali
and was and is beloved world wide
I don't think this is just a (possibly clever) debating point
I think it is a very real reality
White Christians are also about to mount an attack on women's rights
Yet you fear muslims...and are attempting to spread fear of them...
The protests going on in the big cities now are not about our poor security
There is enormous shock in this country about what the radical right is about to do the country, the supreme court, all nations, and the planet.
I think these folks are right that American culture has produced a vast pool of half awake arrogant fools, who have come together, egged on by a mean spirited manipulator ... and this thread is out of touch with the real tragedy that is taking place.
So I am to ignore a threat because of something that happened hundreds of years ago? My ancestors killed no one in North or South America nor am I a Christian, but I am "white".
Please link the present day non-Muslims who beheaded reporters. 
This should prove interesting.
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: sudly]
#23850333 - 11/20/16 01:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
There are bad apples in every orchard.
Short and to the point and applies to atheists as well.
Glad we could agree on something
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850336 - 11/20/16 01:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actually, no it certainly does not.
The atheist position is that no one has demonstrated solid evidence for the existence of a god or God.
OTOH, The Koran clearly calls for the death of infidels.
If you cannot discern the difference between these two positions, well... 
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850344 - 11/20/16 02:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Atheists don't follow a single doctrine
Mean people exist all over the world with all kinds of beliefs.
Religious folk tend to practice tradition and ritual more often than non-religious folk too.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: sudly]
#23850357 - 11/20/16 02:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, and...?
Atheists call for the death of no one! The Koran calls for the death of ALL non-believers.
Anyone who thinks these two stances are remotely equivalent is an _ _ _ _ _ !
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Yeah I don't think those are equivalent ideologies but I still think there are good and bad people within all types of mindsets and beliefs.
Richard Dawkins is considered one of the 'most radical' atheists out there and he is incredibly moderate in comparison to a Salafi Jihadist in Syria.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Actually, no it certainly does not.
The atheist position is that no one has demonstrated solid evidence for the existence of a god or God.
OTOH, The Koran clearly calls for the death of infidels.
If you cannot discern the difference between these two positions, well...
There are quite clearly bad apples among atheist.
There are quite clearly ignorant dumbasses who are atheist.
There are quite clearly extremist who are atheist.
All of these traits are theist/atheist agnostic as they are potentials from human nature.
An subscriber to atheism is capable of centering on extreme acts of hate just like any other human being.
So, if you can't piece apart the individual from the belief, well... that's the very ignorant seed of destruction that everyone is scared about.
A nutbag could watch Bananas and Pajamas and be convinced it justifies killing people. That's just the nature of being a crazed person now isn't it?
An individual's actions after reading an allegory say fuck-all about the allegory and more about the person who interprets it a specific way which is why such works are powerful. And we all know that very powerful things can be abused in the wrong hands.
Lets go through all of human history in which man all by himself has abused power and caused suffering simply because it benefited them individually.. Where's the religion in this picture? Nowhere. Great heaps of suffering simply due to greed/selfishness.
I hope people cover the basics soon as it isn't something that is going to be continually spoon fed to society or easily grasped as things progress into more complicated spheres.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850399 - 11/20/16 03:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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There may be bad apples that are atheists but they are far less ignorant(not knowing) and 'extremists' than the non-religious when it comes to objectivity.
Evolution is not an opinion it's an observation and until you see that you will continue to remain ignorant of it.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: sudly]
#23850411 - 11/20/16 03:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
There may be bad apples that are atheists but they are far less ignorant(not knowing) and 'extremists' than the non-religious when it comes to objectivity.
Evolution is not an opinion it's an observation and until you see that you will continue to remain ignorant of it.
I wouldn't say that are far less ignorant moreso that atheism presents a narrowly scoped safe-zone of proven understanding and thought. This reflects the lack of power atheism maintains w.r.t to stretching boundaries of thought which is why I assert that its self-limiting. That being said, human nature itself breaks out of such confines which is why you can have a hate filled atheist go on a killing rampage just as a hate filled religious nut does. The root is being a hate filled nut .. not what body of belief the person subscribes to. How many times do I have to repeat this?
Many religious frameworks stretch and break out of these safe zones and thus maintain an incredible amount of power. All things of great power require considerable amounts of respect and care. Alas, in the hands of the ignorant and those with bad intent, they can be obviously used for great harm.
Evolution is a fact and a theory. A process that has been scoped long before Darwin came along and wrote about it. I don't remain ignorant of it as I am aware of the scientific facts and aspects beyond it. It's a process that many remain ignorant of beyond the narrow scope of science because they are incapable of conceptualizing frames beyond the atheist stopping point .. Maybe these points will be shattered soon... But that's life : An ever evolving story.
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850417 - 11/20/16 03:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Because quantum mechanics are so proven with gravity waves and 'strange stars' with cores of quarks.
Atheism is as narrow as science.
Human nature breaks out of these confines with imagination.
Evolution is a scientific theory just as the theory of gravity.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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 Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio] 2
#23850472 - 11/20/16 04:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
A nutbag could watch Bananas and Pajamas and be convinced it justifies killing people. That's just the nature of being a crazed person now isn't it?
Nonsense. Bananas in pajamas does not have an explicit message of "kill X people". Therefore a crazy person would be dramatically less likely to be incited to violence by it, than by a book that explicitly instructs the reader to kill.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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Heffy
BrauMeister
Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio] 1
#23850475 - 11/20/16 04:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The root is being a hate filled nut. not what body of belief the person subscribes to. How many times do I have to repeat this?
You can repeat it ad nauseum, it wont make it any more true.
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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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phio
Registered: 10/07/16
Posts: 369
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: sudly] 1
#23850515 - 11/20/16 05:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Because quantum mechanics are so proven with gravity waves and 'strange stars' with cores of quarks.
I've entertained several deep conversations about quantum physics on this forum as it is actually an area I am widely versed in. I have yet to meet someone that can extend the scope of my knowledge here.. So please don't go trying bring quantum physics into this discussion as if it nullifies anything that I have said or behave as though it somehow supports atheism as the nature of it and things at the macro scales of our universe (the cores of quarks) are a direct anthesis of any atheistic belief.
Quote:
sudly said:
Atheism is as narrow as science.
Atheism is a door people close on considerations that go beyond proven understanding. It is self-limiting and is a human (non-natural) construct set upon so as to gain comfort in bounds as opposed to the implications of the far reaching boundless infinite that pervades all scales.
Quote:
sudly said:
Human nature breaks out of these confines with imagination.
You're certainly right about one thing... That imagination is set upon by believing beyond what is known and is at the core of your nature and intelligence.
Quote:
sudly said:
Evolution is a scientific theory just as the theory of gravity.
Evolution is composed of both factual and theoretical components. You seem to need to update yourself on the latest understanding/interoperation held by science. Darwin's work, as he himself stated was inspired by Anglican theology and on works that predate even his birth into this world. I would be more than happy to personally point you to some key aspects of the work that Darwin cites as the inspiration and eye-opening experience that set him upon his journey to unravel the concept of evolution.... But you seem to spaz at anything theist. Your loss man.
I've dropped you tons of resources and commentary that you could use to increase your understanding, scope, and open your eyes to a world you seemingly have no clue exists, yet you want to call me a dense motherfucker.
Have it your way. Wait until the next grand discovery in science is made that upends your world and then subscribe to it. Some people are busy on developing those grand discoveries. Maintaining that anything that is unknown is unplausible limits those discovery and true searchers take no part in such self-limiting confines of thought.
Athiesm works for you congrats. Just know that you look like an utter fool bashing religions whose numerical systems, astronomical foundations, and mathematical constructs underly your every day life.
You most definitely will come off as a fool by praising evolution while not understanding the Anglican theology that it is premised upon. Don't get mad at me for calling you out and don't gain comfort in there being a populist movement w.r.t to atheism as somehow establishing that it is an intellectual frame of mind, progressive, or in some way sets you apart from 'ignorant' religious people. Some of the most misinformed and uninformed people on matters of science have been lazy ass atheists in my experience but that doesn't cause me to forget that there are very brilliant atheists as well... I don't let a few spoiled apples ruin the bunch.
Edited by phio (11/20/16 05:50 AM)
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sudly
Quasar Praiser
Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 11,371
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Re: Islamophobia [Re: phio]
#23850540 - 11/20/16 06:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
atheism presents a narrowly scoped safe-zone of proven understanding and thought.
My point in mentioning quantum mechanics was stating that we do not have an understanding of the entirety of the universe.
Quote:
Atheism is a door people close on considerations that go beyond proven understanding.
Atheists form beliefs based on evidence which should be elementary knowledge.
Quote:
That imagination is set upon by believing beyond what is known and is at the core of your nature and intelligence.
What is known is science, not the magic of the bible that asks a man to explain what a bush said to him.
Darwin came up with his theory on the origin of species over 150 years ago and since then the theory has been modernised and developed dramatically alongside advances in genetic understandings and technologies.
You have dropped shit upon shit, on shit, on shit about a theological understanding of evolution from over 150 years ago.
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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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